The Death Of A Marriage

[kayc]

Kath,

I don't think John hurts me afresh, he doesn't have the power to anymore and I've come to not expect anything from him, including believing anything he says, he has no follow through and nothing but empty promises. I realize we can never be together, I could never do that to my family and friends if nothing else. However, I still have the residual pain from what he did to me in our marriage and I'm not sure I'll ever completely be over that, only time will tell. The loss from death is one thing but the loss from a rejection of this magnitude is something else, it's so hard to understand. George never wanted to leave me, John did so of his own accord, that makes it so much more difficult to process (to me).

I went on a date yesterday but it was a total dud, thumbs down, makes me never want to try it again! But I will. Maybe just not for a while. Right now I am realizing I am happy just being me...I would like to make friends to do things with, but I'm really not looking for or hoping to hook up with anyone. I'm looking to try out more things on my own, with my girlfriends, maybe camping, Dutch Oven Cookouts, hikes, etc. In other words, I'm not going to wait on a guy to enter my life, I'm going to live and have a good time, me, myself, on my own.

But if I should happen to meet a special person somewhere someday, I'm open to that...I just don't think it's likely. I really wish I would have just contented myself with memories of the specialness that George and I had...I know it'll never be like that with anyone ever again. I'm not so afraid of being on my own, alone, anymore...back when he died, I was scared.

I am learning to pay attention to red flags and listen to my inner instincts, I think that's important.

Well Arlie is crying for a walk so I guess I'd better hook him and Skye up and take them for one. Take care, I love hearing from you!

Kay

[kayc]

It amazes me that after all this time, I am still being hit afresh...

I got a collection call on a bill John had...he has been giving out my address as his own, even though I don't know where he's been for nearly two years and even though he never lived with me and we've been divorced for over a year. I paid off all bills that I'd cosigned on with him, putting my house up against it to do so, in an effort to keep my good credit. My attorney told me that in Oregon we are not responsible for our spouse' bills that we did not sign for, they do not recognize community property here, and she let me know what I was responsible for and what I wasn't. So this collection agency contacts me and some snippy nosed 22 year old tries to intimidate me into thinking they'll hold me responsible legally! I was so mad!! I called back to talk to her "supervisor" and was given another 22 year old! BTW, they recorded the call without telling me beforehand, which I told them is illegal...about as illegal as their collection methods.

But it galls me that after all this time I should still have to deal with John's choices/actions/drama, that it should encroach upon my personal space. Grrr!!!

[kayc]

This is a sequel to the topic "Never Ending" that I posted.

A year ago, Margaret (the OW John left me for), died. The last couple of days I received incoming phone calls from him and finally took one of them...it was a girl named Cindy letting me know that he has throat cancer. They did a tonsillectomy and then released him from the hospital and he is supposed to start chemo.

It is interesting what I am feeling and thinking as she is telling me this, and beyond. My first thought was "Why are you telling ME this?" She said social security would be contacting me (WHY???) and he didn't want me to learn it that way. None of it makes sense, we are divorced, why would social security contact me, I have nothing to do with him. Second, I have learned time and again, that John does not care about me or anyone else. He doesn't seem to have the ability to care. So when he feigns caring, it's for a reason, usually to try and manipulate you and get something from you. Seriously? Not happening.

There was a time I loved this man. I would have done anything for him. I would have nursed him on his death bed. But he is nothing to me now, nothing but a con man that ruined me financially and broke my heart and didn't care!

Honestly, can you do all that this man did to me, stay away several years, and then make contact when he's dying and expect something?

[MartyT]

I'm so sorry to learn that you're dealing with all of this again. Stay strong, dear Kay, and don't let this man (or anyone else, for that matter) take advantage of you. Listen to your heart, and let your own experience be your guide. The thought occurs to me: Could John be thinking of naming you as the beneficiary to his Social Security when he dies? I don't even know if he can do that legally, but a visit to the Social Security website would probably give you the answer (http://search.usa.go...fit+for+ex+wife ). In any event, please know that we are thinking of you ♥

[kayc]

I doubt John will make anyone his beneficiary, anyway, he has two kids. I didn't collect anything when George died, I think they gave me $50 towards his burial, something like that, but John and I were only married two years, you have to be married ten years to file off of someone, and then you only get 1/3 of their benefit, which isn't enough to live on unless they had really great benefits. Nope, knowing John, he wants something from me.

[kayc]

I've found it was kind of hard, I wish she hadn't called, it stirred up old stuff I'd rather forget about, it was a very bad chapter of my life. I didn't sleep well last night, I know he has a horrible time ahead of him, and even though I know he doesn't have a heart/conscience, I do.

[MartyT]

Yes, Kay, you do have a heart ~ a very caring and compassionate one. It's okay for you still to have feelings for this man, regardless of what he's done to you ~ and it's certainly okay for you to share those feelings here. I would not be surprised if your heart hurts not just for him, but for yourself as well, because you're mourning the loss of what might have been. ♥

[kayc]

I am so over him, because he wasn't who I thought I married and he was so horrible to me...it's hard to love a Narcissist and he is a true one. It's all about him.

But you're right in that even so, I mourn the loss of what might have been if he had not been who he is and was.

I still feel for anyone who has to go through anything horrific, no matter how they've treated me, and his future does not look good, he has a lot of bad in store for him. Losing his mom and his GF were only just the beginning, he's lost everything, his possessions, even though that was his own fault, me, that too was his doing, those that he was close to, his ability to work, to talk, even to eat, and now with all of the pain he's going to face, it'll only get worse. If this isn't hitting bottom, I don't know what is. What does it take for one to realize they need God to hold them?

[kayc]

I spoke with John last night...His cancer is too far progressed for chemo. He'll talk to his oncologist about whether or not to do radiation, it's miserable and if all it does is prolong the suffering, there's no point. He's going to opt not to have life-saving measures done because the cancer surgeon says he'll have a stroke before the cancer kills him and it'd be a blessing...he said where it's going to hit will be massive and he won't know what hit him.

When we were married, four years ago, he had a lump on his neck, he went to the doctor and was told it was swollen glands. I thought then he might have cancer. It isn't glands, it's a tumor.

I covet everyone's prayers for him...he doesn't believe in God, I wish he did so he could have that comfort at least.

[MartyT]

My dear Kay, this is so, so sad ~ and I am so very sorry. I will keep him (and you) in my prayers ♥

[mfh]

Kay, I just now caught up on this post. I am a bit spacey today.

I am so sorry for all you are having to deal with again. Of course, you have feelings for him even though he hurt you terribly. I believe that we do not stop loving someone we once loved even when they hurt us. Not sure of that but I wonder. Does love really go away? I don't think we can kill love. I am so glad you are sharing all this here. You know we are here for you. I am here for you. I am just sorry this wound has been opened again. I know you will deal well with this but that does not mean it will not hurt and be a challenge. I have seen your strength here in the forum. You are invincible! You will do this and we will help you.

The social security thing is that once married 10 years, the spouse gets ALL of her ex-husband's (or in my case deceased husband's) social security. Bill's was a bit larger than mine so I switched to his and I get all of it, not 1/3...but as you say it is 10 years so it won't matter. I think I got a whole $155 for burial and his burial was several thousand...the government needs to take a look at that, for sure.

I hold you in the light and in my thoughts as you walk through this.

Mary mfh

[kayc]

Actually, no, I don't feel love for John like I once did...I discovered he wasn't who I thought he was, so that person didn't exist to love. I care about him no different than I would anyone who is going through a rough place. Yes, you can stop loving someone, if they've hurt you bad enough. I don't love my first husband in any way, shape or form, he was a monster that abused me continually throughout our six year marriage. John also abused me, not physically, but emotionally, mentally, and he placed me under undo stress financially, creating great pressure for me that will continue throughout my life...and he did so purposefully and without any remorse. There is such a thing as a diabolic mind, a criminal way of thinking, that does not hold one's self responsible for hurting others, but rather puts the blame on them for being so "weak" or "stupid"...so that the person who loves wholeheartedly is looked down upon for it, and is taken advantage of without regard. That would be John.

I was once madly in love with my first fiance...he broke my heart, that was 35 years ago. I am no longer in love with him.

I still have feelings for my kids' dad, we were married 23 years, and even though things didn't work out for us, I will always care about him.

I still have feelings for Jim...again, even though things didn't work out between us, I don't imagine I will ever stop caring for him.

My feelings for George will never change...we had the most amazing love, and nothing, not even death, can change that.

So loves vary, relationships vary...some die completely, some change form.

When I spoke of it bringing up old feelings, I think you and Marty misunderstood...the feelings I am speaking of were not the loving feelings of being with him early in our marriage, but rather the nightmarish horror of what he put me through...those are the things I don't want to relive, that I'd just as soon leave in the past. Even just hearing from him can serve to trigger those memories...memories of walking into our trailer one Tuesday night four years ago to see a Pepto Bismo colored shirt laying on the couch...then seeing flowers on the table, candles, and other items that indicated there was a girl living there and they were involved. And all of the days/nights since that led up to the divorce...memories of his deliberately conning me into buying a motor home so that he and his new girlfriend could live in it together at my expense...I didn't know that at the time, of course, I didn't realize he was having yet another affair, but I soon figured it out. I gave my heart and soul to this man...this man that did not deserve one iota of it. So no it is not as you think, it is just I would rather let the past remain buried, but for now, I guess it won't be for yet another while. Right now I need to pray for him, there very well may not be anyone else in his life doing so.

[kayc]

It's funny how things turn out...it's been nearly six years since I decided I had no choice but to get a divorce from this man. I remember at the time that my sister was annoyed that I hurt, she said he wasn't worth it. That part is true, but when you have the death of a relationship, it hurts like hell and you have no choice but to go through the emotions, experience them, before you can make it out on the other side. He's kept in touch now and then...his mom passed and then his GF Margaret died. I felt bad because he never even picked up her ashes. I mean who does that? Lives with a woman for a couple of years but doesn't regard her enough to get her ashes? Her family didn't either. Poor Margaret. Then John got lung cancer. He went through hell, radiation, chemo, had to quit drinking and smoking cold turkey overnight. My guess is he's back to the drinking by now. He hasn't changed, still a narcissist, the only difference is I no longer fall for it. The only thing good I got from that relationship was Kitty. She's 19 this month. I call her my $50,000.00 cat because that's what my lesson with John cost me...that plus interest. It'll be over $100,000.00 by the time I pay it off.

I remember my GF telling me she might have fallen for someone like John after her husband died, had she not already seen what I'd gone through. If even one person heeds caution when they're their most vulnerable, then my story will have been worth it.

[kayc]

Part 3/final of my story with John.

[kayc]

And here is my other story...loss of a no count husband that wasn't.

[Kaybee]

Dear Kay,

I hope you don't mind my commenting and 'resurrecting' this thread.

Your experience with John sounds rather like my own. I find it so difficult to comprehend what actually happened during my marriage and am angry with myself for not calling it at the time for what it was...abuse. By that I mean, I kept quiet about what happened even after I left, apart from telling my sister and my friend. Even then I wondered if I had got it quite right...then 12 months ago, the full realisation hit me. Now, my ex is dead and it has brought more issues to the fore. This is at a time when me and my partner have relocated for a fresh start. Yet, it feels like my ex still has a hold over my life and everything feels close to disaster. I thought I was at rock bottom in my marriage but this current state feels worse. I feel like a big let down.

Reading your story and your updates does give me some hope of a life after all this. Thank you for sharing your experiences. You have such amazing strength, courage and compassion. Marty's post about 'The Awakening' gives me a glimpse of inspiration as well. I'm still here to tell the tale, after all. I just need to find the courage to finally draw that line and say ENOUGH...to start standing up for myself and move on.

[kayc]

Kaybee,

I'm sorry ANYONE has to experience stuff like this!  I am embarrassed that I was stupid enough to make this mistake, I know he wasn't my type and I wouldn't have done it except I was grieving horribly and not in my right mind...I was trying to "put my life back together".  When all was said and done, my grief was still staring me in the face, waiting for me to deal with it.  And there IS no "putting my life back together", there is only creating a new one for myself that I can live with.  My life with my precious George is gone, the time with John I'd love to forget except for the lessons learned.  I wish I'd "come to" sooner, but I also understand that grief over that marriage was a process and it takes a bit of time to sink in, even though you know it with your head, it takes a while for your heart to reckon with all that it means to you.  I also knew that if I faced the reality of it, it meant I'd have to act on it and act quick!  And I did.  I am proud of myself for that.  I was very proactive in dealing with the end of that sham of a marriage.  I mean, the guy never even lived with me, but I caught him living with two different women while we were married, the first one from a white supremacist gang (she stole my id, another thing I had to deal with), the second, a drunk that was driving our car...she could have killed someone and I'd be sued for everything I'd ever hope to work for!  Do you know that our law makes no provision in getting your name off a car in such a situation?  I "gave" him the car in our divorce, along with our motor home, etc. (yet still he wouldn't transfer the title so I had to provide the insurance...the DMV told me I'd have to sign HIS name and request new title & transfer at the same time) I had to pay for everything, he charged $57,000 on MY credit and I have to pay for all of that too!  He went back and stole other things from me, my pistol, my generator, things that were personally mine, so he could sell them on Craig's list...and the law did nothing to help me.

I'm sorry you've gone through so much, the guilt is his, and you and I have nothing to be embarrassed about...I also know that doesn't stop us from FEELING that way.  

Marty is so great about researching things and keeping track of them and pulling them out and posting them just when we need them.  We are so lucky to have her, other grief sites do not have a moderator reading all the posts, let alone gently guiding and giving of their resources and time like we have here.  

I have no doubt in my mind that you will be able to lay this to rest and move away from that dark time in your life, into a happier, healthier place, free to enjoy the rest of your life in peace and tranquility.  I know, because I have been able to, and if I can, anyone can.

[Kaybee]

Kay,

It's clear he took advantage of your being in such a vulnerable state and manipulated you because you are a decent, kind and caring person. I'm sorry that the marriage had such far reaching implications for you. The law seems to have failed you dismally. My heart goes out to you.

I admire you for having the strength to be so proactive at the end of your marriage. I wish I had been the same, but I was so afraid of stirring up a hornet's nest (he had threatened to kill me as I was walking out the door) I felt the best thing to do was lie low and not provoke. No contact...'radio silence'. Besides, any legal battle would have been long drawn out and very expensive and I just couldn't muster the strength for that. I didn't have an 'escape plan' and wholeheartedly wish i'd consulted domestic violence organisations for advice. I regret it now, but we are where we are and even walking out the door with a death threat ringing in my ears didn't make me acknowledge that the marriage was abusive. I felt I had no grounds to report to the Police. All I knew was that I was tired and drained. The mind is a strange thing.

I'm glad to read that you feel you are in a better place now and that gives me hope, for sure. And you're right - Marty's exhaustive research is worth its weight in gold. Quite how she manages it all is beyond me.

My new job starts next week and working full time will hopefully distract me from ruminating. I do really want to put the past behind me. Thank you for responding to my post.

[kayc]

My first marriage was like that, he was violent and threatened to kill me, and the law did nothing to protect me.  41 years ago they didn't have organizations to help us.  Even though things have improved since then, they still have a long ways to go.  It wasn't until I realized two things, I'd have to first save myself or I wouldn't be any good to anyone else (I stayed partly because of a child he had during our marriage that I was raising as my own) and secondly it wasn't until I reached the point I'd rather be dead than live like this, that I risked getting out.  They hold us hostage to the fear they instill in us, and they're good at it.

With John, he wasn't violent with me but he was a con, a very good one, and he not only preyed on my vulnerability, he was a master manipulator.  During our marriage I saw things that were red flags but it wasn't until it got so blatant it just could not be denied any longer that I did something.  I think knowing what I'd have to do if I faced it kept me from dealing with it sooner.  But the longer you wait, the more you have to deal with.

I have never forgotten, we don't.  But neither do I think about it unduly, it's just part of my past, something I learned a lot from, but I'm no longer there, I'm in a tranquil place.  I got to experience true love once and he died, but I keep his memory with me and it gives me hope and sustenance.  I wish you well on this new job!  I totally believe you will be able to put this behind you.  

[Kaybee]

Thank you for the good wishes. It's quite a career change from what I was doing up until a few months ago, but I knew the old career was burning me out. Everything has changed in 6 months, feels like I'm starting from scratch...not necessarily a bad thing!

[kayc]

No, not necessarily a bad thing at all.