It hurts so bad

[iheartm]

7 minutes ago, mittam99 said:

iheartm,

I am a very caring, loving person. My grief journey has been very hard and I've lost everything. Tammy was my world and my soul mate.

I'm not trying to preach when I post topics of hope. I'm trying to convey to those who are feeling in a hopeless state, that there is hope. It is never my intention to diminish anyone's grief and to suggest that I am somehow belittling those who are not so far along is an unfair characterization. That is absolutely a 100% misreading of who I am as a human being.

I'm trying to give back to members here all the love and concern they showed me.

 

The first line in the above post is my life as I'm sure it's the life of many here.

I just don't think this particular forum-- which is heavily populated by those with very recent losses-- is the venue for giving back or trying to convey anything to people who just got here and are shellshocked beyond belief. We don't need to hear about hope and the future right now. We need to have support for what we are feeling right now in the moment. I know that I cannot muster the strength to think about anything other than the next hour because this is all so new. That's all I was trying to say. As Marty said, there are two other forums here for people further up the line to discuss how they are coping and realizing that life does go on so there is a place for those discussions. It would seem to me that that venue would be more appropriate for sharing strategies for moving on and discussing hope. 

[Margm]

@iheartm: Yes you can wallow in it.  At least you can if you don't have 5-10 people hanging around you.  The only time I can be alone is to go off by myself in the truck and then I am worried about till I get home.  You met someone you do not know.  I am an old lady.  I have one thing going for me, I am so old that most of my friends are already widows in different stages.  I talked to one yesterday that was one year in December.  Things were not much better for her than they are for me.  Read the articles that Marty posts.  I have bought book after book about widows and widowers.  We are all different, yet we are all the same.  Please have hope.  I lost Billy October 17th after 54 years and I selfishly wanted  54 more.  Three months, three years, 33 years, 54 years.  We have all lost our reason for living.  But, people are still living.  Don't let that one woman you talked to give you advice, you do not know her.  Keep reading.  These are friends.  You don't know them if you meet them on the street, they come from every part of the country.  One thing grief is, it is shared by any nationality or culture.  Please just hang in with us.

And as for people going to other places, I would not be this far along at nearly six months without these people that were further along than I am.  I am not ready for anyone to leave.  

I have not had to go to a grief group.  This little town does not have one.  I don't know where I would be without this group.  I guess I would be food for the coyotes and buzzards.  

[mittam99]

Iheartm,

 I have lost my spouse and my journey has taken me from the depths of hell to now a more hopeful place. Happy.. no. This is the appropriate forum to tell my story. I still have a long way to go though and I still have many difficult days. I think I've asked you before to read my "dealing with those moments" topic to read where I was at early in my journey.

I also don't believe that this forum was only intended for those in the earliest stages of grief. Many who post here are over 10 years into their loss. I am only 13 months in. I understand my current message may not resonate with you right now. But, is it fair to make me feel like I am doing the wrong thing somehow when I am honestly trying just to help?

And I don't just post messages of hope. I welcome new members and try to give advice based on my experiences. This is all so overwhelming and I've never felt like I was being attacked before. Feeling the need to defend myself when I pour blood sweat and tears into my posts.

This is not the reason I come here.

[scba]

 I got used to read from all of you here on Loss of a Spouse but if anyone decides to move to a different subforum for X reason, please let us know so we can read about you there. 

[iheartm]

5 minutes ago, mittam99 said:

I also don't believe that this forum was only intended for those in the earliest stages of grief. Many who post here are over 10 years into their loss. I am only 13 months in. I understand my current message may not resonate with you right now. But, is it fair to make me feel like I am doing the wrong thing somehow when I am honestly trying just to help?

 

See Marty's post on the previous page. Even she says there are other forums for people further down the line to discuss moving on. I'm sorry if you cannot understand that-- at least to me-- your attempts to be helpful are misguided because you are trying to help people who are brand new to this hell and are not receptive to help right now because of the overwhelming sadness, fear and loneliness that they feel.

This was the only place I felt supported when I first got here. People posted how they were feeling and what they were going through rather than offering strategies that are impossible to process at this time.

In any event, your tenure here is longer than mine and I've probably exhausted any chance of being supported here since you feel so insulted by my posts so I will bid you adieu, go gently into the night, and grieve in whatever way I have to in order to survive.

[mittam99]

I believe you are not seeing the whole picture. Is it misguided to give people a sense that their misery may change in the future? I call that hope. And it is truly not the case that the majority of the posters in this forum are new grievers. 

I'm not here to argue but I do feel I need to defend myself when called out.

I also believe you haven't seen the majority of my posts. If you have a chance read them to find out what an amazing wife I had and how she has become my inspiration in this difficult new life.

[MartyT]

To clarify: Any member is free to post in any forum in which he or she sees fit. Posting in the forums I mentioned in my earlier post is OPTIONAL. Continuing to post in this forum ~ or not ~ is also OPTIONAL. There is no rule that says otherwise.

As with everything else in grief, "different strokes for different folks." Some mourners long for the reassurance that the pain of grief diminishes over time, and desperately need to hear the hope and promise that they won't always feel as bad as they do now. They need and want to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. For other mourners, that is the last thing they want to hear, because they're just not ready, willing or able to hear it. It only adds to their feeling angry and misunderstood. They need to be where they are. They simply need to know that they are heard, that they are not alone, and that we will sit with them in their pain. Still others really don't know what they want from us ~ they just want this pain to end and for their loved one not to be dead ~ and that is the one thing none of us can give them.

Everyone here is DIFFERENT, so it's impossible to know when something we say might bring one of us comfort and another only more pain. We need to look at our intention ~ and I know for sure that no one on this site is intending to hurt anyone else or to add to anyone else's pain.

Making accusations is unfair, hurtful and argumentative, and leads only to more arguing and defending. It has no place on this site. I'm sure we all have better things to do with our time. (Already I've spent much more time on this matter than I care to spend this evening.) I am asking each and every one of us to help me stop it. Now would be good.  ♥

[Gwenivere]

53 minutes ago, iheartm said:

In any event, your tenure here is longer than mine and I've probably exhausted any chance of being supported here since you feel so insulted by my posts so I will bid you adieu, go gently into the night, and grieve in whatever way I have to in order to survive.

I hope you will stay.  It's hard when there is discord, but we are all so emotional and vulnerable.  Sometimes I do something that helps a lot.  I apply a 24 rule and step back.  I'm not going to take sides or quote details from posts that have flown all over the emotional spectrum today.  What I am going to say is that there is so much support here.  Also keeping in mind this is a 2 dimensional form.   Very very hard to express things at times without seeing the person and hearing the infection in thier voice.  

Just a suggestion, but if you think back on other posts you have made, did you feel you received support?  I only dare suggest this because there have been times I have felt overlooked.  But I never was.  Sometimes there just is no response but many nodding their heads in understanding.  That is why I like the LIKE button.  Someone read my words and agreed.

i don't know what else to say except I hope you will choose to try again to find ways of survival here.  No one should have to leave in sadness.

[enna]

I have been reading all these posts very carefully and I am somewhat disturbed by the negativity that has surfaced. It hurts me that we are suggesting that there is a “place” for each of us! I came on this forum in June of 2012 and I have worked very hard at my grief journey. I started with the loss of spouse or significant other thread because that is what happened to me. I lost my beloved Jim and my world stopped. The people who were on the forum ~ those new and those not new were caring and understanding and accepted me with open arms and without judgment. I valued what those who were here longer than I had to say and I was so glad some of us were in the same place~ having suffered a recent loss.

We all are fragile and sometimes words are misunderstood but I do not think that what others say is meant to do harm.

Our threads are open to each one of us. I have read and sometimes responded to what others had to say just to let the person know that they were being heard. When one offers a suggestion that is all it is ~ a suggestion. I had people remind me to breathe, to read and learn about the grief process, to listen to guided meditations, to listen to music, to find a positive in each day, and to even spend more time outdoors. I never took any of these suggestions as someone telling me how to grieve. Whenever a pet dies my heart breaks for the one who lost their pet recently but I also remember the many people who lost pets long ago. When I lost my Benji I never felt like I didn’t feel like I could express what it was like for me. Our experiences are just that – ours.

If someone is thrown into anticipatory grief and I want to respond I do not feel that I can’t because my anticipatory grief happened long ago and what did I know! I spent many years in anticipatory grief as I watched my beloved Jim slowly slip away to Alzheimer’s disease. Some of the most helpful posts for me were to hear from those who had experienced this type of grief. Their comments gave me hope.

I have lost both parents and three siblings and even though my losses were not recent I feel empathy for those who have lost someone recently.

Today, I read many of the posts and am always grateful that we still have this sacred place to come to. I spend time under the Grief and Loss section now. I may find something uplifting in significant quotes. I find the meditation thread helpful. Music has always been important to me ~ in the beginning I could not listen to most music especially if it was something Jim liked. Today I love most music.

My heart goes out to each one of you and even though I am further along in my grief I would hope that if I did respond to someone’s post it would not be taken in a negative way.

Anne

 

[Gwenivere]

5 hours ago, Marg M said:

#Gwen, never apologize for your grief.

We go at our own speed.  Sometimes the turtle wins the race.

Thank you, Marg.

A turtle I am right now.  Hoping to be a bright purple one if I gave to move at that pace.  

[Margm]

Okay Gwen, I am going to share Donatello (Donnie) with you of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, only because he wears purple.  And yes, I do watch them, and they have a new movie coming out.  We are gonna win this race.  We may not cheer, but we are still gonna come out, maybe not kicking so high, but just crossing that finish line will help.  We will have some joy one of these days.  And, I can feel Billy wanting me to have joy.  Boy, am I gonna throw him a curve.  The last place that boy would have lived would be an apartment.  So, that is what I am moving in first, boxes of his stuff.  Not being mean, just because it is what I have packed and it is things I can lift.  I will have movers move the big stuff, but there won't be much of that.  Gonna have a garage sale.  Didn't want to, but there is just too much stuff and my garage sale daughter wants to do it.  Times are not happy times, but they are one foot in front of the other times.  Like Robert Frost said, "promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep."  I'm staying Billy, even if I don't want to. 

Enna, you are so correct.  I value each of you.  I think someone just was in a very dark place tonight, maybe the suggestion to talk to another widow threw her under the bus instead of helped her.  I don't think anyone is going anywhere.  You all are gonna be stuck with my long posts forever, and you can read them or not.  I have "run-on" fingers.  Sorry.  I think some people had a bad day as we all do almost 23 out of 24 hours.  Any breakthrough from our suffering is something to help challenge us to possibly have that happen in our own life.  No one has to go anywhere, or at least I hope no one goes anywhere because you all actually saved my life.  No drama, just fact.  

[kayc]

On 4/14/2016 at 6:06 PM, iheartm said:

"You can't wallow in it, you can't continue to live in a pit of grief, you have to live on..." those types of things.

It's never appropriate for us to tell someone else "you should..." and the statements that lady was making to you were those types of statements that obviously you'd resent.  Mitch, however, was not giving "you should" statements, and it makes me wonder if his post was even read correctly.  The response that ensues doesn't seem appropriate for what he was saying.

Of course you're entitled to feel how you feel, no one is suggesting otherwise!

 

I also echo what Anne said.  It hurts that someone feels we don't belong here because we've been at this longer.  There's not a day goes by but what I miss my husband.  Grief doesn't end because you hit a one year mark, a three year mark, or a ten year mark, as you will discover.  It evolves with our journey, but the missing them goes on.  I appreciate all of you who have given encouragement, we all need it in our journey.

[Margm]

It is just like with my widowed friends, without their help, how would I know I could face tomorrow.  Each of you with experience, and I won't start naming all of you, you know who you are, men and women.  Without you, I just don't know what I would have done.  How many people find a forum like this after 3 days from death.  Like the nugget, maybe Billy might have helped save my life.  Hey, stranger things have happened.  I wish I could believe in things like that again.  Maybe some of the fog might lift.  Without the experience that is on here, really, what would I have done?  If iheart stays around, she will get the help she needs, not the help some widow she does not know is going to tell her.  Yes, sometimes I want to wallow in my grief.  But, if I stay in bed too long to wallow in it there will be three police cars and an ambulance sitting in front of my house.  And, you all know my family will do that. 

[kayc]

Oh Margaret, I love you!

[Dew's Girl]

I always feel that each of us should be able to set the tone in our own post.  I have a thread that I started for my grief journey and I wouldn't want someone coming in and hijacking it.  Likewise, I wouldn't want to go into someone else's and try to dictate a tone.

The cool thing about this forum is that it is so diverse.  If the thread I am reading isn't right for me in my current mood, I back out and find a different one to post on.

We are all raw about this subject regardless of the length of time since our loss.  I suspect I always will be. I've had my feelings hurt on this forum when I felt someone was trying to tell me how I should feel, but that was in my own post where I believe I should be the one to set the boundaries.  I'd like to think if I'd gone to that person's thread and the same conversation occurred I would have felt differently because I was going to them (ie their thread).  Even so, I try to give grace and know they were just trying to help.

Just my two cents.  Don't know if that makes any sense.

[KATPILOT]

Makes a lot of sense! One thing I think about is how raw our emotions can become when we are grieving. We don't always articulate well and we sometimes misunderstand what we read. I have on more than one occasion looked at my own post which looked okay before I submitted my reply then when I read it on the page, I saw things from a viewers perspective and it truly looked differently. I went back and edited. We speak from our hearts because our hearts are now on the surface and we're bleeding, often badly. That is when we give each other a hug and not assume anything for we always remember that we are talking with a grieving person.

[MartyT]

I think we need to be careful in assuming that, because we started a particular topic, we somehow have ownership of the thread that follows and can then exert control over where it goes. That may be true in the Comments section of a blog, but on a message board like this one, topics are open for discussion, and as in any conversation among several participants, the focus may shift and go off in a different direction. If we think of that as highjacking, we may be setting ourselves up to feel offended, discounted or worse. What to do? I think what Amy suggested is the better approach:

2 hours ago, Dew's Girl said:

If the thread I am reading isn't right for me in my current mood, I back out and find a different one to post on.

  

[Froggie4635]

Today's meditation in the book "hope & healing for transcending loss" by Ashley Davis Bush is very interesting, and visual:

"We are like sea glass as we grieve. We start with sharp, jagged edges as our world is shattered. And then, with time, with mourning, with sharing, with reaching out, with grieving some more, oue edges get softened. When we let grief change us, we take on a new shape. Let yourself become softened by the sea of grief."

[kayc]

Steve,

The same is true for readers.  I've often wondered, "How did they get this out of that?!"  I go back and reread the post and they are responding to something that just isn't written!  I think it's easy for people to skim through posts and misread what is written.  Before responding, take a deep breath and reread it, perhaps at a later time when your emotions are different.  And even if you don't like what's written, it's never okay to attack the person...stick to the subject and be gentle on the person.  And yes, we all have the option of backing out of a thread if we don't like it.

[Margm]

Oh well, I'm the world's worst for hijacking threads.  I have opinions about everything and my "run on" fingers usually tell it.  

[kayc]

Like Marty says, nobody owns a thread, even if they started it, and I love the humor you inject!

[Margm]

I wonder if anyone ever thought "we are here for help" and if it does not help us, just ignore it.  How can we possibly criticize a fellow griever.  How can we see the suffering that person goes through each day and dare criticize him/her?  Grief makes us all crazy, but it is not something that can be treated by a psychiatrist.  Or, in my opinion, it should not be.  Now my friend, right after they put the stone on her husband's grave she went out and attacked that stone, with anger and malice.  In her case, there were no tears.  In her case, I think a straitjacket and a padded room should have been utilized.  My mom was angry at my dad because he got sick and made her quit the best job she ever had.  In her talking moments now, she still blames him.  Both of these men had cancer.  But, you all know my mom probably needed a padded room about 95 years ago June 2nd.  

I admit, I did get angry one time when I was pushed on by another member.  All of our feelings are like the quote one of our members put on this morning.  The sea grass that is sharp at first but gets the edges softened with time.  I think this person that pushed my anger has moved on.  I am a mother, some of you people could be my kids, I hate to see my kids suffer.  I hate to see any of you suffer.  All of our feelings are like that sea grass.  If anyone left because some angered person's grief drove them away, please consider that all of our moods do not go in line.  That person was suffering from untold grief that made anger her chief objective.  She was not angry at you, our wonderful person that tells grief so beautifully, she was angry with grief and attacked you, attacked anything she could attack, just like my friend beating on the stone.  

John Donne wrote a poem a long time ago that describes what would happen if we lost even one of you.  I won't put it on here, you all know it.  "Ask Not For Whom The Bell Tolls."  I am not good at memory, but he mentions that if England should even lose one clod of earth we would all be the worse for it.  And that describes how we would be without all of you.

[mittam99]

Mitch here.

I just want to talk a little about last night's events and I hope what I write makes sense. I didn't get much sleep (a combination of my reaction emotionally to things I read here last night and an electrical issue at my house). Please bear with me and I hope everyone reads my words with objectivity and an open mind.

My Tammy was my world, truly. She was the sweetest and most amazing woman I've ever known and she made me feel like I was the most special man in the world. The health issues we went through together would stagger most people's minds. The cardiac arrest, the multiple sepsis events, the life threatening kidney infections, the lung infection that almost killed her, the MRSA, the cellulitis, her battles with Lupus, Raynaud's and Sjogren's, And much more. I devoted my life to Tammy. Nothing meant more to me than having her in my life. And then we fought our last battle. A battle we both thought she had won after that last month and a half in the hospital and rehab place. She came home with a new outlook and with new hope for the future. Two days later my precious wife died at home. And my life was gone too.

Those of you who "met" me back then saw a devastated man who wasn't sure he could live in a world without the love of his wife. Who wasn't sure he could survive the agony and the pain. Who didn't understand a God that would take away the most wonderful woman the world has known. A woman who in the face of unimaginable medical trauma stood strong and fought the battle with grace and courage and humor. Me by her side always. I came here and you let me tell my story. Talk of my pain. I posted the eulogy I delivered at Tammy's funeral. I just wanted the world to know about this wonderful woman and our amazing love story.

Many times I'd literally post and burst into tears while posting but I needed to write the words down. And members here showed me support and a kind of understanding and love that made me think of this place as family. I was so grateful to have a place like this to come to. And honestly, I personally have gotten more positives from this experience than my time in grief counseling.

Over the past few months I've seen some light in the dark world of my grief. The tone of my posts has gone from a place of utter misery to something more hopeful. It's actually interesting that a couple members here pointed out the difference in my tone even before I even noticed the change. That's not to say that somehow my grief is "gone". This grief will last a lifetime. It's just that I do have some days that I'm not just coping, but actually functioning fairly well. And then I have days that bring me back to March 6th and that pain, that angst bubbles to the surface again.

This grief journey is hard. Hard for all of us.

When I post my "words of hope" as I have in recent times, it's only meant  to convey (to those who are still in unbearable pain) that there is some light and some measure of happiness to come for all of us. I fully understand that some aren't yet ready for that message but I am only speaking from my own experience. There is no rule book, no timetable. We all work through our grief in our own way and with methods that work best for us.

I was having a pretty good day yesterday, I got some little projects done around the house. Then I sat down at the computer last night to check out the forum. And I was completely shocked that the gentle words of hope I posted were thought of as misguided and inappropriate. I understand that iheartm is in a very difficult place emotionally and was viewing the words from a different point of view. Still, I was so taken aback and shocked. I try not to post anything in a preachy way and I  edit and re-edit my posts so that (hopefully) my words won't be misconstrued or offend.

I just want to say that after last night I felt a new sort of grief. It felt like people on the board who I considered family, weren't seeing what I saw. Weren't seeing gentle words that I had written being stated differently than intended. Didn't see me under a sort of personal attack. I felt like I was on an island all alone and no one would lend a hand to rescue me. And that hurt.

I haven't posted today because I am still confused and saddened by what went down. I'm now afraid to post a message of hope because it may be taken in a different way than intended. I don't want to anger anyone, ever. I am still shaken by all of this. I do want to thank Kay and Marg for words of encouragement they gave me privately.

Last but not least, I simply want to say that none of us has things easy. I certainly don't, iheartm doesn't either. We're all living a life that we didn't want. We all are missing the person in our life that made our life complete. But, we are all part of the same family and I hope, moving forward we all can continue to help each other the best we can.

 

 

 

[kayc]

14 minutes ago, mittam99 said:

I just want to say that after last night I felt a new sort of grief. It felt like people on the board who I considered family, weren't seeing what I saw. Weren't seeing gentle words that I had written being stated differently than intended. Didn't see me under a sort of personal attack. I felt like I was on an island all alone and no one would lend a hand to rescue me. And that hurt.

I haven't posted today because I am still confused and saddened by what went down. I'm now afraid to post a message of hope because it may be taken in a different way than intended. That really boggles my mind. I am still shaken by all of this.

Mitch,

I've walked this journey with you and heard your heartbreak over losing Tammy.  I've also been privileged to get to know you over the last year.  I found nothing offensive in anything you wrote, nothing that was deserving of the attack you got.  Although I know feelings run on edge here sometimes, I have said before and am saying again, personal attacks are way off base here and according to our guidelines, are not allowed.  Simply put, no one should be allowed to attack someone else, their dignity, speak disrespectful to them, and what you went through yesterday broke my heart for you.  I knew you were hurt bad.  I've been on the receiving end of it and I know it hurts, although never on any forum have I ever seen what took place yesterday.  When I had it happen to me I felt afraid to post for fear someone would take something wrong, and honestly, that's not a good feeling.  

Please, if someone doesn't like what someone wrote, you can ignore it and get out of that thread, message them (nicely) rather than publicly airing it, or message Marty, but let's show respect to each other and never personally attack someone.  As much pain as you might be in, remember, behind these usernames exists a real living breathing human being with feelings just like you.  

Let's make this a warm inviting place where anyone can come and feel this is a safe caring place to post their grief.  We share in this journey together, be it two weeks or two years, and we all learn from each other.  I, for one, want to see that continue to happen.

[Margm]

Okay Mitch, I am going to tell you how important you are to this forum.  I had gone to bed and had bought Buck Owens' autobiography for my Kindle.  So, you must be mighty important for me to leave Buck Owens in bed to come answer this.  No pun intended.  (And Billy would laugh, so I don't feel guilty about saying that.)

Last night you got attacked by someone who was in the throes of an anger attack, just like my friend that attacked her husband's tombstone right after it had been placed.  Made no sense, but she had to be hurting very bad to carry it on, so we will feel sorry for her.  Sometimes angry people attack innocent people and inanimate objects.  I guess they just hurt so bad.  That widow must have really turned her into something she did not want to be.  I think it happens some times.  We have seen it around here a few times. I was attacked in a private message and I had to consider the source in this incident, and I think we have to consider it in the attack on you too.  Anger is an emotion and we should not turn it at a fellow sufferer, and certainly not suggest they go somewhere else.  I would imagine that person feels very bad today, and that is something we have to forgive.  Attacking an innocent person should not be done.  

Be assured, you have never written anything that would turn someone into a shrew.  We all are happy for any light you see.  We are all happy for any light any of us see.  I knew your feelings were hurt, I am sure we all did, and I think it was more of a shock and most could not believe it had been done.  So, we have to assume that person was hurting as bad as my friend who took a shovel to her husband's headstone.  Anger is an emotion I have had to hold down.  But, I used it to try to alleviate my pain.  Maybe this person was trying to alleviate her pain and you were the person who unfairly caught it.  Don't quit posting, and don't let someone who really did not know what they were doing harm you.  It is sad it happened, but we do have to worry about that person.  She has a long road ahead of her and she needs the help of people like you, and people that have walked this path months ahead of us.