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I'm sorry, they left "logical" out of my vocabulary, my brain, my heart, and if it was in my colon, it was a goner anyhow.  My teachers at our school got together and told me there was no way in 1961 that Billy and I could live on $98 twice a month.  We did, but we ate a lot of his mom's pinto beans with dry salt meat, cornbread, tea and onions from his dad's garden.  And, we had so much fun going down to the barrow pits alongside the highway, off Dorcheat Bayou and bass fishing.  Back in those days we did not catch and release (we eventually did that in later years), but one of my favorite foods was bass fillet's.  They had never eaten "fish gravy" and it became Billy's favorite food.  You just made it like regular gravy, but you used some of the oil you fried the fish in.  Now was that perfectly illogical and off topic?  I do understand illogical.

And Brad, I hope I don't hurt your feelings, but I am going to use your topic to advertise "Grace and Frankie" starting March 24th.  Now if you are even a little prudish, don't watch it.  I am just warning you ahead of time.  But, if you are terribly illogical like I am, and if you want to laugh again, you have to watch this show.  It throws rational thinking out the window and the topics are really off the natural course of things.  I just like to laugh.  And, I love these two women and their ex-husbands who leave these two women for each other.  It is not slap-stick, it is about women my age doing crazy things that are not l-o-g-i-c-a-l.  

I'm sorry to get off ya'll's subject.  Sometimes I hate grieving.  

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I have always thought that I was logical and wanted to be less emotional most of my life.  I wanted to be like what I envisioned my Dad was like.  However, I tend to be more sensitive, emotional, feeling and caring than I think what men are supposed to be like.  For whatever reason, I am made the way I am. Of course, that Georgie Porgie song and "Curious George" character really messed with my mind as well.

After many years I have come to accept the way I am as how God made me, unique and special, not weird.  I have seen my Dad's personality change in the last couple of years to a kinder more sensitive person. 

Rose Anne loved and accepted me as I was and loved me in spite of my own faults. She saw the best in me in areas that I did not see.  I miss her; I miss us.  At this point I can not wrap my mind around loving someone else while still morning her loss....

Yet I now have this passion to Fly that has rekindled a hope and lifetime dream of mine.  I can not understand it logically.  But Grief and Joy does co-exist in my life that I never imagined.  So I don't know what the future holds.  KATEPILOT and Patty65 are living examples of New Love and Grief co-existing. Although my mind doesn't comprehend it, my heart does.

I will take all of this one day at a time and hope everyone will do the same.  - Shalom 

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Brad,

Grief has the ability to sneak up on you and pounce when you are least aware. I read your thread about "Wakey Bear" and was searching through very old albums for a picture of my Debbie and her "Morgie", a little pink dog she carried everywhere with her. I had found very faded, bedraggled "Morgie" in her closet after she died. She had kept him with her for 50 years. I was unable to find the picture, but instead found one that was truly heartbreaking. It had been taken about 1973 at our cabin in Munds Park. A Christmas dinner photo of my husband, my daughter, my mother, and my father snapped by me. The realization hit that they are all gone now, including the cabin. It almost feels as if my whole whole world has been erased and yet, I still exist. I still exist. How can that be?

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This is sooo off topic, but gave me a much needed laugh. Hope it will give you all one too. Have you ever had one of those Keystone Cops moments?  My garbage disposal had an odor, so I bought some cleaner packaged in little pods. Instructions said to drop in a pod, trickle water for 20 seconds, run disposal for 5 seconds, wait 2 minutes and wash away the foam. The problem was that running the disposal even for 5 seconds sent the whole thing immediately down the drain, no cleaning at all. So, I decided to  dump in a little Fast Orange cleaner. When I squeezed the container, the 2" x 4" lid went down the sink with the disposal running. Fortunately, I retained enough sanity not to stick my hand in the disposal. No cleaning foam, just a bunch of chopped up plastic. I figure if I can still laugh at myself, I am okay.

Thank you for your kindness, Brad.

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10 hours ago, iPraiseHim said:

 Rose Anne loved and accepted me as I was and loved me in spite of my own faults. She saw the best in me in areas that I did not see.  I miss her; I miss us.  At this point I can not wrap my mind around loving someone else while still morning her loss....

Yet I now have this passion to Fly that has rekindled a hope and lifetime dream of mine.  I can not understand it logically.  But Grief and Joy does co-exist in my life that I never imagined.  So I don't know what the future holds.  KATEPILOT and Patty65 are living examples of New Love and Grief co-existing. Although my mind doesn't comprehend it, my heart does.

I will take all of this one day at a time and hope everyone will do the same.  - Shalom 

The beauty of being loved is to be accepted your faults. Sometimes we see the beauty in certain faults and flaws in another human being. I think George that that is what attracts us to just the right person. Since non of us are perfect the beauty of who we are is made partly because of those very flaws. Of course Rose Anne loved you in spite of them. Kathy loved me the same way. That is what makes it so special.

George let me tell you and everyone else who can't wrap their mind around loving someone else while still mourning your loss. If it ever does happen it will just happen and wrapping your mind around it won't even be a factor. I watched my dad find new love quite soon after my mom died. For him I knew it was to escape loneliness. I watched him hide my mother away and move from his house. I never heard him speak of my mom to any of us children or to my step mother although it probably did occur at some point. For me however, the last thing I ever wanted was another love. Was I lonely for six years?  Oh yes I was and sometimes severely but to replace Kathy? No way. The only reason this relationship I am now in can exist is because I don't replace Kathy. I embrace her in my life with a love that never will end. So that window of co-existence happened to open unwanted, unsolicited, but so strongly embraced. Kathy taught me how to love. Now she is taking me to another level.

However we find joy amidst our sorrow I hope we can embrace it. The last thing any of our lost spouses would want would be to see us lose faith in life and suffer only for the loss. If we find joy in flying or involvement with anything else even traveling without them and seeing new things, we must live on. It is how we honor them best It is how we love them best.

Steve

 

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14 hours ago, Brad said:

I will be so grateful if the psychosis of grief ever takes a break.  I just had a wonderful time with the kids and grandkids.  Yesterday I drove to the Valley since I had early appointments today at the Mayo.  Left this morning to go to the appointments and stopped for coffee at Circle K.  As I pulled in "Lover's Concerto" by the Toys (a 1965 fluff piece) started playing.  Now there is nothing about this song that should act as a trigger.  I doubt Deedo and I ever listened to it together and I haven't heard it since my teens except once in a movie whose name I can't remember.  But knowing the name of the song I suddenly focused on the word lover's realizing I once knew (and still know) requited love.  The larynx spasmed and the eyes started to burn.  Stunned I breathed deeply and got my coffee.  Keep in mind I'm now in a place where I no longer cry daily and sometimes will go several days or weeks without tears.  

After that, all was good until I was reading a novel while waiting to go to my second appointment.  Suddenly there were the same sensations without apparent cause (a touching scene between Harry Potter and Mrs. Weasly).  I read the HP series about every eighteen months so it was nothing new.  

After I headed home Bedrich Smetana's "Ma Vlast" symphony started playing.  A couple of weeks ago I had booked some concert tickets for a concert featuring works by Smetana and Antonin Dvorak, two of the greatest Czech composers.  The concert is in Prague and I am very excited.  I started to think about the concert and suddenly the floodgates opened and I was sobbing away because I will be seeing Europe for the first time but without my wife.  Again I don't understand the trigger.  Classical music always made Deedo sad and music was one thing where we really never found a lot of common ground.  If we were traveling together then the operas, ballets, and concerts would not be on the itinerary.

I pride myself on my critical thinking skills; my ability to look at evaluate multiple facets of any issue and then drawing conclusions based on logic and not supposition.  This grief thing has had me bamboozled from day one and continues to do so.

Brad,

Perhaps you were in a vulnerable feeling state of mind, does it have anything to do with dealing with your health issues without her?  I know grief is like this, out of the blue randomly hitting us but you really had a day of it!

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6 hours ago, KarenK said:

This is sooo off topic, but gave me a much needed laugh. Hope it will give you all one too. Have you ever had one of those Keystone Cops moments?  My garbage disposal had an odor, so I bought some cleaner packaged in little pods. Instructions said to drop in a pod, trickle water for 20 seconds, run disposal for 5 seconds, wait 2 minutes and wash away the foam. The problem was that running the disposal even for 5 seconds sent the whole thing immediately down the drain, no cleaning at all. So, I decided to  dump in a little Fast Orange cleaner. When I squeezed the container, the 2" x 4" lid went down the sink with the disposal running. Fortunately, I retained enough sanity not to stick my hand in the disposal. No cleaning foam, just a bunch of chopped up plastic. I figure if I can still laugh at myself, I am okay.

Thank you for your kindness, Brad.

I run lemon or orange rinds.  Also, with disposal OFF, take the rubber thing out and clean it throroughly (don't know what it's called) but it can sure grow stinky slime.

I got a laugh out of your "off topic" remark...IS there a topic here?  Seems it's changed every other post! :D

Marg, thanks for the Grace and Frankie suggestion, I could use a laugh, and I don't recall the last time there was something worth watching on t.v. except I like Dr. Jeff (vet).

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I am also slowly learning to have joy and grief co-exist in my life.  Someone said to me the other day it was so good to hear me laugh.  I know that Mark would want me to enjoy my life and not hold on to the sadness of losing him.  It is more probable now for people to hear me laugh, than to cry.  The times that I cry are more private now, and come at strange times...when I hear something or see something that I wish to share with Mark, and he is not there.  We loved the show "Parenthood" and a cable channel started running the series and Monday night was the last three episodes, and so many emotions surfaced.  Mark never got to see how the series ended, but I know he would have also cried.  I have been feeling so unsettled lately, and I think it started when the car went in the shop after losing its battle with the falling palm tree (thank goodness it wasn't an oak tree). Now that I have our car back, and I can sit in it and be with Mark in a way....I am feeling some of the uneasiness leaving.  Today is Go Texan Day here in Houston and I am dressed head to toe in my "cowboy" duds.  I bring Mark with me because he was my cowboy (even though he really detested those who only "dressed cowboy" at rodeo time).  I find joy in the ways I am able to honor him with my life, but also when I find "ME" in those things I do.  I know I am not ready to share my life with someone else right now; I can be okay with the solitude because I was alone so much before we met and he changed my life.  Like Steven said, the ones we grieve for can and will never be replaced in our hearts or lives...but perhaps when the time is right our hearts can expand to allow new love to enter.  I can't ever imagine loving someone the way I loved Mark....and I can't because Mark was Mark; with all his flaws and imperfections.  Like George said, Mark loved me with all my flaws; they are what make us who we are....the good and the bad.  There will never be another Mark, just like there will never be another Kathy, of Ron or Rose Anne.  But they would want us to live our lives and find happiness, wherever it comes from.  I hope that my blossoming writing career can touch those who grieve, but also help those who don't to understand what we go through and how drastically it changes our lives.  

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1 hour ago, Froggie4635 said:

It is more probable now for people to hear me laugh, than to cry.

1

So happy to hear.  This too is where I strive to be and do feel I am moving in that direction.  It's been a while since the birds and squirrels have gazed down on a raving lunatic.

1 hour ago, Froggie4635 said:

Like Steven said, the ones we grieve for can and will never be replaced in our hearts or lives...but perhaps when the time is right our hearts can expand to allow new love to enter.  I can't ever imagine loving someone the way I loved Mark....and I can't because Mark was Mark; with all his flaws and imperfections.  

 

In a support group, I met a gal, younger than myself, who had buried three husbands.  Her comments were she loved the first with all of her heart and then he died.  When she met the second, she knew this time she really had found love like no other and he died.  The third husband came along and it was the real thing, mad, passionate, requited love; he died.  Throughout all of these relationships, she came to realize that she was truly blessed to have found three men whom she could so completely cherish and adore.  She knew none of these relationships were close to the same and the guys were all quite different.  She came to realize that while different she could love each person as much as the others, each relationship gave her what we all had with our loved ones; the human heart is capable of not replacing the love of our lives but finding new and different loves.  This gives me hope.

That being said, I am not looking for romance, no one would have me with my fixation on Deedo but I really would like a friend I can talk with, someone I can occasionally dine with, someone to take in a movie, a play, a concert with, someone who likes quiet strolls through woods and someone with enough of a sense of adventure that they might not object to jumping out of an airplane or rafting the Grand Canyon, or swimming with whale sharks. At sixty-five the field is getting somewhat limited.

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1 hour ago, kayc said:

I got a laugh out of your "off topic" remark...IS there a topic here?  Seems it's changed every other post! :D

 

The reason I created this thread was simple.  The discussion back then got a bit heated over thread hijacking (in my most humble opinion a wasted emotion) and I wanted to create a thread that was un-hijackable; a place where people could post anything they wanted without feeling the need to respond to anyone else.   Just that space where ideas could float freely and without restraint.  So Kay, given your remark I guess it is working.:P

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17 hours ago, Brad said:

I will be so grateful if the psychosis of grief ever takes a break.  I just had a wonderful time with the kids and grandkids.  Yesterday I drove to the Valley since I had early appointments today at the Mayo.  Left this morning to go to the appointments and stopped for coffee at Circle K.  As I pulled in "Lover's Concerto" by the Toys (a 1965 fluff piece) started playing.  Now there is nothing about this song that should act as a trigger.  I doubt Deedo and I ever listened to it together and I haven't heard it since my teens except once in a movie whose name I can't remember.  But knowing the name of the song I suddenly focused on the word lover's realizing I once knew (and still know) requited love.  The larynx spasmed and the eyes started to burn.  Stunned I breathed deeply and got my coffee.  Keep in mind I'm now in a place where I no longer cry daily and sometimes will go several days or weeks without tears.  

After that, all was good until I was reading a novel while waiting to go to my second appointment.  Suddenly there were the same sensations without apparent cause (a touching scene between Harry Potter and Mrs. Weasly).  I read the HP series about every eighteen months so it was nothing new.  

After I headed home Bedrich Smetana's "Ma Vlast" symphony started playing.  A couple of weeks ago I had booked some concert tickets for a concert featuring works by Smetana and Antonin Dvorak, two of the greatest Czech composers.  The concert is in Prague and I am very excited.  I started to think about the concert and suddenly the floodgates opened and I was sobbing away because I will be seeing Europe for the first time but without my wife.  Again I don't understand the trigger.  Classical music always made Deedo sad and music was one thing where we really never found a lot of common ground.  If we were traveling together then the operas, ballets, and concerts would not be on the itinerary.

I pride myself on my critical thinking skills; my ability to look at evaluate multiple facets of any issue and then drawing conclusions based on logic and not supposition.  This grief thing has had me bamboozled from day one and continues to do so.

Brad:  I can relate to what you said.  Same for me, days without crying, but moments that come on unexpectedly and take my breath away with deep sorrow.  I also wonder if we all will get a break at some point.  I had a scary thought the other day that this might be it.  This is what they mean by "you get used to it."  You put it kind of away and enjoy things, laugh, etc., but it's all still there, the deep pain and missing of that person.  I so want that contentedness and carefree life back that I used to have....I know, we all do.  I think now that this takes way longer than I could imagine.  Your trip sounds wonderful....good for you.  Caring to everyone....Cookie

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58 minutes ago, Brad said:

So happy to hear.  This too is where I strive to be and do feel I am moving in that direction.  It's been a while since the birds and squirrels have gazed down on a raving lunatic.

In a support group, I met a gal, younger than myself, who had buried three husbands.  Her comments were she loved the first with all of her heart and then he died.  When she met the second, she knew this time she really had found love like no other and he died.  The third husband came along and it was the real thing, mad, passionate, requited love; he died.  Throughout all of these relationships, she came to realize that she was truly blessed to have found three men whom she could so completely cherish and adore.  She knew none of these relationships were close to the same and the guys were all quite different.  She came to realize that while different she could love each person as much as the others, each relationship gave her what we all had with our loved ones; the human heart is capable of not replacing the love of our lives but finding new and different loves.  This gives me hope.

That being said, I am not looking for romance, no one would have me with my fixation on Deedo but I really would like a friend I can talk with, someone I can occasionally dine with, someone to take in a movie, a play, a concert with, someone who likes quiet strolls through woods and someone with enough of a sense of adventure that they might not object to jumping out of an airplane or rafting the Grand Canyon, or swimming with whale sharks. At sixty-five the field is getting somewhat limited.

 

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I also hope for companionship.  After 21 months, I am finally coming around to the fact he will not be back in any form and I really want to live what years I have remaining with other opportunities to experience the good stuff of life.  I have been hiking with my friend's brother and it's nice to have some male companionship again, but, boy, it brings up a lot of sorrow because I still want it to be John.  That may be it....but I definitely hope for my remaining years to be good ones.  I was so enriched by the 47 I spent with my love, John. 

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2 hours ago, Froggie4635 said:

I am also slowly learning to have joy and grief co-exist in my life.  Someone said to me the other day it was so good to hear me laugh.  I know that Mark would want me to enjoy my life and not hold on to the sadness of losing him.  It is more probable now for people to hear me laugh, than to cry.  The times that I cry are more private now, and come at strange times...when I hear something or see something that I wish to share with Mark, and he is not there.  We loved the show "Parenthood" and a cable channel started running the series and Monday night was the last three episodes, and so many emotions surfaced.  Mark never got to see how the series ended, but I know he would have also cried.  I have been feeling so unsettled lately, and I think it started when the car went in the shop after losing its battle with the falling palm tree (thank goodness it wasn't an oak tree). Now that I have our car back, and I can sit in it and be with Mark in a way....I am feeling some of the uneasiness leaving.  Today is Go Texan Day here in Houston and I am dressed head to toe in my "cowboy" duds.  I bring Mark with me because he was my cowboy (even though he really detested those who only "dressed cowboy" at rodeo time).  I find joy in the ways I am able to honor him with my life, but also when I find "ME" in those things I do.  I know I am not ready to share my life with someone else right now; I can be okay with the solitude because I was alone so much before we met and he changed my life.  Like Steven said, the ones we grieve for can and will never be replaced in our hearts or lives...but perhaps when the time is right our hearts can expand to allow new love to enter.  I can't ever imagine loving someone the way I loved Mark....and I can't because Mark was Mark; with all his flaws and imperfections.  Like George said, Mark loved me with all my flaws; they are what make us who we are....the good and the bad.  There will never be another Mark, just like there will never be another Kathy, of Ron or Rose Anne.  But they would want us to live our lives and find happiness, wherever it comes from.  I hope that my blossoming writing career can touch those who grieve, but also help those who don't to understand what we go through and how drastically it changes our lives.  

Froggie4635:  It is interesting how you finally come to terms with "life must go on."  I didn't want it to, but since I'm not going to end it, I'm deciding I want it to be as content as it can be.  I also don't cry as much, especially in front of people.  I think the tears are still there inside me, but after 21 months most people are shocked that you can still cry so easily and so I mask it.  There is mighty powerful sorrow still and maybe always will be but I do want to come to peace with it.  That's the challenge--what I want and what will be.  I find myself constantly looking outward for things, probably distractions, and when I'm back alone in our home I'm more likely to get very sad.  I know what my husband, John, would want, but I have to say that he didn't know what this would be like and if he did he would probably hold me and say, wow, yes, this is hard; you just do the best you can, know that I love you.....Cookie 

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Dear Cookie,

That is an interesting take on things...I have often said that as hard as it is for me to be the surviving spouse, I would have hurt to see Mark grieving. So often, he would say he would NEVER be able to stay in our home if I were gone.  I would have been so afraid of what would become of him.  I don't like to sound like I am thinking so much of myself, but his family always tell me how I saved his life.  So many of them had written him off and just waited for him to drink himself to death.  I know that I brought some peace to his life (although is demons NEVER disappeared) and I could not imagine how he would handle being a widower.  I remember how hard he held me the day my dog Annie had to be put to sleep.  I know he loved her as much as I did, and looked at her as if she were his own. I remember him holding me up as I sobbed.  I also remember how much he wanted to comfort me when my dad passed away.  I think that is why I feel him around me so often...he is going to be around watching out and seeing me get stronger as the time passes.  I do understand the distractions, too.  I seem to keep myself moving from one thing to another...almost as if I have ADHD.  My three dogs are a HUGE distraction and keep me surrounded with love.  

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Cookie - 

Your posts today brought warm smiles to my heart.  It is so nice seeing you finding your way to search for: "that contentedness and carefree life back that I used to have....I know, we all do.  I think now that this takes way longer than I could imagine."  It is nice to have that companionship again, that person who allows you to be who you are today.  I've mentioned my friend whose husband is in late stage Alzheimers.  We get to share like I can't anywhere else.  We both get it.  She knows when and how to figuratively slap me around when I need it and how to be a rock when I need that; I, in turn, try to be that person for her.  Now I need to find the same thing on the mountain so I have that companionship here as well.  I really am excited about the trip but quite anxious as well.  Hopefully, I can find a way to balance out my emotions.  I am getting better but tears seem to have taken up permanent residence just barely below the epidermis and still will leak out on occasion. 

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Musing along............

I went to Mount Ida today.  I will miss my sister widow who became probably one of my closest friends that I probably will never see again, and we both would know the reason, I am sure.  She is a saint.  Most of my friends are saints. (They would not like Grace and Frankie).  I have the remnants of an unsaintly lifetime.  I really don't want to be saintly, but I am much nicer............and older.  

Of course I did try to play CCR and listened to it some.  But then, I put on Air Supply's greatest hits and played it for about 400 miles total.  Lost a little sodium.  

I don't like going back to where Billy left me...........

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