Widow/er to Widow/er

[Margm]

One thing that has confounded me was my lack of concentration..  I read.............lots.  Or rather I used to.  I have books packed on my Kindle, but I picked the book up at Barnes Noble called  Widow to Widow  , which is, I think #64 or #65 (memory gone) on the bibliography list on this forum.  The author lived in Tucson, I believe, and the preface of the book grabbed me.  So did the rest of the book.  It is for widowers also.  The author is/was Genevieve Davis Ginsburg, M.S.  I wish I had not googled her name.  She passed away nearly 20 years ago, and I feel like now I am mourning a friend too.  I want to quote from one passage of the book, and that will be my only quote.  But, the book is "us."  It is all of us, whether we are 30 years old or 80. 

Grief Is An Equalizer. 

Although younger widows face some distinct problems, just as the elderly widow does, at the beginning the great equalizer of all widows is grief.  An 80-year-old woman whose husband died in his sleep and a young woman whose husband was killed in a motorcycle accident are amazed to find they are undergoing the same process. "But you had so many years together," one is told.  "You can start again," the other hears.  However, they are both equally hurt, angry and confused.  And it would be remiss not to add that men are no different from women in this regard and their sorrow is no less profound.

I used to type manuscripts for doctors to be sent to publications, but you will have to forgive me if I did not put this in the correct way.  There is also a chapter about memory and confusion in this book, as I am sure many books on grief talk about.  This is each of us, our own personal journey, the same, and some different.  I don't know why this author reached me, but she did and now I feel sadness that I cannot thank her.  The author Edward Abbey had passed away a month before I discovered his books.  I read them all, and I think of him every time I see a buzzard.  That is what he wanted to "come back as," in that form. 

I think sometimes I write a lot about nothing.  Had a rough week, and this book actually helped me.  Did not make me see Billy, but it did help me see myself. 

Edited April 1, 2016 by MartyT
Links inserted

[brat#2]

That quote is so true but I think we just forget that.  I'm glad this book helped you this week.

Joyce

[scba]

The book that has helped me in the last two weeks is "About Grief: Insights, Setbacks, Grace notes, taboos" (Ron Marasco and Brian Shuff).

Edited April 1, 2016 by MartyT
Link inserted

[MartyT]

Thank you, Ana. Can you say a bit about what you found helpful? Then I'll be glad to add your choice to our Grief Bibliography page. (And incidentally, if anyone else has a book or two they'd highly recommend, do let all of us know! Our bibliography page is made up of books for the bereaved, recommended by the bereaved, and it is widely viewed over the Internet!)

[scba]

I found it to be useful because it doesn't discuss stages of grief or phases or grief and the purpose isn't to teach you a life-lesson or show you the place to go. It describes grief using references of literature, music and stories from people who contributed to the book. What got me to read it was the tone the authors use. It is not sugar coated/new age. It was written by two men who are not expert in the area and are young (and not grievers), so when I read it I have the feeling that a good friend, who is not in my shoes, was talking to me. It has a dosis of humour, sarcasm and sentimentalism. All in all, it is a good choice to validate your feelings rather than to discover the new theory out there.  

On Amazon is available only on printed edition.

[Gwenivere]

4 hours ago, scba said:

The book that has helped me in the last two weeks is "About Grief: Insights, Setbacks, Grace notes, taboos" (Ron Marasco and Brian Shuff).

I went to Amazon and ordered it.  I read some online reviews that had nothing but praise for it.  I normally don't read books about grief (having lost other people), but I've never had a loss turn everything upside down.  My mother was hard to take, but it was the natural order.  That's the same with couples, but the bond is a chosen one that we committed our lives to.  And one we didn't think would end despite logic dictating we all must die.  

I really liked the description as it doesn't sound like the usual going over the stages because we have heard those ad nauseum.  This is a whole new experience we've never faced and had NO idea how intense it would be.  

So, Ana, thanks for the heads up.  

[scba]

Gwen, I hope you will like the book. Please let me know!

[Froggie4635]

I have lost count of the number of books I have read and purchased to read at a later time.  Many I bought, and are book marked because I wasn't at that place at the time I was reading it.  It has always been my way; collect as much information I can about a subject that is my "obsession" at the moment.  But, I think that perhaps I am supposed to sort through all this information and find what I can to educate me to help others.  So many of the books do repeat the same terminology and information, but I am always afraid I will find a phrase or a paragraph that quenches the need I have to understand; that explains EXACTLY what is in my head and my heart.  Maybe somewhere deep inside I am trying to find a book that will tell me how to get Mark back...and the life I loved so very much.  Maybe I want to try and find a way to make use of this grief I am experiencing. Maybe I am just trying to find something to focus on instead of the pain.  The difference this time is that I am not holding on to the books I finish.  I donate them or hand them off to someone who can use them.  I don't want my library to be filled with books about loss and grief.  I keep on my desk at work two books that are daily meditations, and even though it has been over a year, it still helps to read the passages, and perhaps I can find a new meaning in them the second time around.  The books are "Hope and Healing for Transcending Loss" by Ashley Davis Bush and "Healing After Loss" by Martha Whitmore Hickman.  I also keep a small notebook that I will write the quotes that mean something.  My work cubicle is an extension of my home, and I have surrounded myself with lots of quotes and pictures I find on Pinterest (another obsession).  People who know me can come to my cubicle and see all I have been through and how I continue to heal and move forward.  It helps them know I am working on my grief, and to not worry so much about me.  Easing their fears also helps me ease my own fears of where I need to go and how I am handling my journey.

Edited April 2, 2016 by MartyT
Links inserted

[kayc]

I had such a hard time focusing on anything longer than a newspaper, it made it very difficult to get through books, because I'd read a chapter, put it down for a long while, try to come back to it and have a hard time getting in to it.  It would have made it much easier if my focus hadn't been so messed up after George died.  I'm finally back into reading and I find the books on loss tell what I've already figured out.  I do like Martha Hickman's book.  There was also a book called Heaven that helped me when I was new to loss because it fed hope, that I so desperately needed.  I don't remember the author, it was a book someone loaned to me so I don't have it anymore.

[Margm]

Focusing is something I still cannot do Kay.  My memory is gone.  In talking to a lawyer about my mom yesterday, I sat in a corner, back seat, like I do in church. I was listening.  Then, I had a valid thought to interject.  To my teacher sister, who is a lecturer in college, I was a student, and she sternly told me not to interrupt.  The lawyer looked to me to finish my thought and I could not.  It had disappeared, gone in space, and I still cannot remember what was to be said. 

I cannot see myself in the book  Widow to Widow .  I see this woman as a pioneer to forums and books.   This was many years ago.  The author was a marriage counselor.  Her husband had dropped dead while playing tennis.  I saw so many of the women on our forum.  She had to go back to work and listen to the petty complaints of bickering married people.  Can you think of a harder thing to do than listen to the trivial bickering while your husband is gone?  Then she talked to a widow friend.   Things began to open up.  This woman felt the same pain she did.  She decided to volunteer for a group of widows to all discuss these problems.  She advertised for a group of widows to discuss the pain they all shared.  On a very rainy day, 83 women showed up to this first meeting. 

This is how I felt, this is what I was looking for when I found Marty, this forum, you, and the various people that showed me I needed to flush those 50 morphine pills.  You were all still alive and maybe not kicking as high, but years later you were still handling car problems, money problems, home problems, and absence of mate problems. And I found out, if I had gone first, Billy would have felt the pain of our wonderful men on this forum.  None of us are suffering any less than the one posting, answering, or starting a new thread.  I so admire the feelings being discussed, the one year all the way up to ten and more years.  I already had my grandmother's words that the pain at 18 years was so great.  (I still had my morphine pills at that time, I did not feel good about 18 year pain,) She still persevered for nearly 30 years after my grandfather's death.  I don't know about my other grandmother.  She had my father take my other grandfather to the state institution where he passed two weeks later.  I only remember my dad's sorrow for this man.  No one seemed to even know he was gone.

I did not know about the author of this book, but I actually grieve for this pioneer woman.   

[Gwenivere]

8 hours ago, Froggie4635 said:

 Maybe somewhere deep inside I am trying to find a book that will tell me how to get Mark back...and the life I loved so very much.  Maybe I want to try and find a way to make use of this grief I am experiencing. Maybe I am just trying to find something to focus on instead of the pain.  

I think there is a part of me that wants to still believe I can get him back and the life I love so very much.  Sometimes it is just too surreal to believe this really happened to us.  We were just living our lives and one day he comes home at lunch and says...I have cancer.  It almost feels my mind is rejecting that 6 plus years later as I did at our kitchen table and he said it.  Years later when I found out our baby, a golden retriever, had it too I actually slumped to the floor and was screaming NO NO NO!  I saw them both die.  Yet at 15 months often cannot believe it.  

If you find some way to make use of this grief, I sure want to hear it.  And not focusing on the pain.  Everywhere I turn are things to remind me they are gone.  I want to talk to him about Trump running for president, our leaning fence that needs repair, how the new dog is eating the deck, what he thinks of a new rug I bought.  Normal stuff.  No mater how many people I have brief conversations with in the world cannot ease coming home to this now silent house that is mine alone.  I hate it.  It's like a prisoner in isolation.  I see now why people go a bit crazy without that human connection that they forged over years of comfort and safety.  

[brat#2]

Yes Gwen, without that human connection life doesn't feel like it's worth it sometimes.  I too, want to tell him every little thing that has gone on during the day like I use to and I still do talk to him, but not getting that feedback is painful.  I'm not having a good day today and I miss him and still want to believe he is coming back to me.  At least that's what my heart wants, but my head knows better.

Joyce

 

[iPraiseHim]

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 5:07 PM, Gwenivere said:

I think there is a part of me that wants to still believe I can get him back and the life I love so very much.  Sometimes it is just too surreal to believe this really happened to us.  We were just living our lives and one day he comes home at lunch and says...I have cancer.  It almost feels my mind is rejecting that 6 plus years later as I did at our kitchen table and he said it.  Years later when I found out our baby, a golden retriever, had it too I actually slumped to the floor and was screaming NO NO NO!  I saw them both die.  Yet at 15 months often cannot believe it.   

Your words are so true.  At just over 13 months and I realize there is still a part of me that wants "US" back.  I miss my wife. I miss all of us.  although I am progressing through this grief, I realize I need to face the REALITY that she will not come back.  It's a hard concept for me because I'm always hopeful for a better outcome.  I am rereading a book that deals with loss of relationship.  It discusses attachment theory ( How we love and form bonds) and the process to deal with loss.  It caused a lot of tears when I first read it, but I wasn't ready to do the work then.  Grief is a journey not  destination. Live each day to the fullest you are able. Shalom

[scba]

I too had one if those moments today. Leaving the cinema I though to tell him this and that....it was a second, a second later I understood I couldn't ever have a conversation again and I started to shake and begged to have my life back.

[kayc]

Gwen, I also had a Golden Retriever that had cancer, it got into his brain and he bit a neighbor that we'd always been close to.  In his right mind he never would have done that, but we decided to put him to sleep, he would have turned ten the next day.  It is so hard watching something strike like that, I hate cancer!

[Margm]

I have talked ad nauseam about clearing out the house in Arkansas.  I am a total mass of contradictions.  On one hand, I cannot get rid of his clothes and his hobby materials.  Now I am having to reexamine what to do with things in the house.  I have to ask myself WWBD.  (What would Billy do).  The king sized bed has lasted longer than most marriages, lots of mattress covers. He would be gone in the RV.  I am going to just start over with everything but his desk. 

Yesterday my truck would not start at Walmart.  I know how a low battery sounds.  This was no sound, no turnover at all.  The man in the auto parts came out and tightened the battery cable.  Started right up.  So much this ole gal does not know.  Battery is two years old.  My daughter's partner is a shadetree mechanic, loves it.  Was going to put in a new battery, so I take it to Walmart and got a new battery and cables and fittings.

I have not had an easy time lately.  I miss Billy, of course, the feeling is unreal.  But I am faced with my mom's care also.  If it was up to me, my mom would be in an Alzheimer's unit.  I won't go into the reasons, but when there is nothing you can do, there is just plain nothing you can do. Went to a lawyer Friday.  Suffice it to say that I have to save enough for funeral and succession.  Other than that, it is out of my hands. Things are so tied up, I cannot save anyone but me.  Her finances have been in my sister's hands for longer than I can afford. I am in one nightmare inside of another nightmare. I cannot save my sister and cannot save my mom.  Where in the book of life does it say one life cancels out another?   

 

 

 

[Margm]

Sometimes instead of writing in a notebook, I will come on here.  One day, one place in time, I don't want to read what I wrote, just like reading it above.  Sometimes the road ahead seems too much, too hard.  The riding lawnmower won't start.  Billy knew how to do this.  There are two acres here.  The two acres seem impossible, but the things in this house are overpowering.  Garage sale?  My garage sale daughter takes care of my mama in another state.  I don't do garage sales.  Somehow in going through this stuff, I find other people's things, my daughter's, her mechanical partner who she is trying to leave behind, but somehow all her things are in the garage, my granddaughter's, my son's, my son's girlfriend's things.  I have asked everyone to get their things out.   When we started RVing in the 1990's, I burned everything.  Such a waste.  At least when Billy took things to the dump there were people waiting to pick up what was trash to one man was gold to another.  Platitudes, quotes, word salads.  I am looking at a box of paper, lots of it important.  Not so important that I cannot just look at it and write on here.  Life goes on, or does it?  The pills are gone.  Do I leave this mess for someone else to clean up?  Billy said that when one died the other would have all the worry and cares of this world to contend with.  Gotta get myself together.  Easier to write about my problem than to tackle it.  Driving off the cliff seems plausible.  Not very high cliffs in this part of the hills.  I would probably botch that up too and still have to contend with even worse.  And here I sit griping about not having shoes when there are people with no feet.  Shannon faces things I cannot imagine.  And she does it with four small children.  I can support myself very well, I cannot support three separate families.  But, neither can they.  And I think this panic attack needs medicated.  Yes, I will.  Some won't, but I will.

[mittam99]

10 minutes ago, Marg M said:

Driving off the cliff seems plausible.  Not very high cliffs in this part of the hills.  I would probably botch that up too and still have to contend with even worse. 

Marg, you are too much. So funny. 

Also, only drive off the small cliffs in you have four wheel drive.

^ joking.

[kayc]

Margaret,

Your allegiance must be first and foremost to yourself.  Announce to your family that you can no longer carry them.  Give them time to come get their stuff, if they don't give it to St. Vinny's or someplace.

I just got shocked yesterday, found out the Soc Sec Dept treats my state pension same as they do federal, and instead of getting $1200/mo I will get $240.  I was in shock!  I can't afford to live here, can't afford not to!  I don't understand their rules as I paid into soc sec all my life, unlike federal employees.  When I called them a few years ago they didn't tell me that.  It means I won't have anything to leave my kids, and I feel bad about that.  Am hoping to stay here as long as my pets live.  After that I don't much care.  It's going to be tighter than tight, I won't be able to afford anything.

I hope your joking about driving off a cliff is 100% joke but I know the underlying feelings aren't entirely, just doesn't mean you'd do it.

[Margm]

Yeah, you know I am joking.  Did you know I found one carrying case that had a pair of false teeth in it.  These were my mother-in-law's things.  She has been gone well over 40 years.  

@Kay:  Things don't seem fair at all sometimes.  My sister collects a little over $100 from SS, but they take her Medicare out too.  How is she going to live?  Leaving my kids something is the last of my worries.  I can 100% guarantee they collected their inheritance way before now.  You do have a problem my friend.  I know the USA has government subsidy housing that is beautiful.  How do I know this?  My college educated, former nurse daughter with bipolar has lived in them.  I know the government is there to help out when hardworking people cannot make it on their own income.  My other college educated family member is too proud to ask for help, though she has pulled her retirement out every time she taught at a state college.  You were banking on your just due.  You paid into it.  My daughter's partner gets over $700 SSI having never paid into SS.  Why does the state provide her $700 and food stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, all the perks to live when hard working people (and I won't say this person did not work). this person got paid "under the table."  People get food stamps.  I came from a family that my mother lived in the depression time, her family had a farm, they went to town once a year or twice to get staples.  They lived off their hard worked farms, the vegetables and even meat were canned.  They grew their own potatoes, sweet and Irish, they grew their own fruit, their own nuts, corn for the animals, corn for popping corn. I do not remember, even reading my grandmother's book, if the government offered help much in the 1920's to 1950s.  I know my mom and dad would not ask the government for a cent.  I am not of that generation.  Right now I am going to the store to get "essentials" for my granddaughter and her teen friend.  Chips, dips, cookies, cokes, pizza.  All that nutritional stuff. (I don't get food stamps, but my daughter does). She is not alone.  They will play games on some new contraption game playing thing that hooks to the TV.  They will entertain themselves.  I will plant my pansies to make this place look presentable so I can give it away and make a fast exit.  Yes, there will be things they have to fix.  Hey, I am asking nothing.  I am making cosmetic repairs to possibly the most beautiful place we have ever lived in.  It is in a place that should go fast.  If it does not, I will be paying house notes, rent, and running over to take care of my mom.  Because if my mom passes, her little pension will be terribly missed.  That little tiny pension she was able to put $500 back each month in savings.  Savings that are no more.  Her little life is laden down with credit cards, loans, and her credit is ruined.  (She, herself, has no idea what a credit card is.)This little woman was never late with a bill and wrote out a check when the bill came in.  Never in debt.  After the lawyer's office, looking at her asleep (I thought) in her wheelchair she acclaimed to my daughter "I am going to lose my house."  Even in her last moments of clarity, she knows what is going on.  Yes, I am bitter.  Sometimes people think they are so smart to be finally brought to their knees.  College does not make a person smart, it just usually ensures a job.............but sometimes it is not even that.  Where would I be without Billy?  Met him when he was 19.  He was already working and putting back retirement.  I added a bunch of years of retirement and then SS to that so  our 80 years of combined working would have taken care of either of us if the other passed, something that was never going to happen.  Surprise, surprise..........it did happen.  My bitterness is combined with my joking.  Like Billy said, he had to laugh at his own-self being stupid, if he did not laugh, someone would.  I sure miss that fellow.  I am going to shop for a 9 x 12 foot broom and all 5 feet of me will do a lot of shoving.  I still worry about Shannon and all of the rest of you.  I will be okay.  Just had discussion with my son, I cannot carry the RV payments, insurance on truck and RV, and his phone bill also.  He is facing an impossible task himself.  My sister, if she lives longer than my mom, is facing an impossible task.  My daughter, if she gets rid of her mechanical partner is facing a big job.  I think my job is relatively easy, if like Kay says, I get to just face my own problems without taking on all the rest of the family's problems. Billy always envied my shoulders.  I could have played fullback on some football team.  He had small shoulders but was about 6'3".  Together we looked like "Jack Sprat could eat no fat, his wife could eat no lean."  Mutt and Jeff, for those old enough to remember.

[kayc]

Old age looks scary, that's for sure.  All I can do is keep going like I always have.  I don't know how I'll make it but I have to give it a good try.  No luxuries of any kind.  My one luxury is my dog and I'd never do without him.  

It would have been nice had the soc sec office told me correctly when I called them, before I filed my pension.  Otherwise I could have taken a lump sum and gotten all my soc sec that I was entitled to, could have collected unempl. for a year too but was denied that because I'd just filed Pers.  Oh well, water under the bridge.  Does no good to look back at what could have been or be bitter about it either.  They don't care anyway, it'd only hurt myself.

So you're little too?  I'm also 5' and I think Marty is that or less.  Us little short girls have got to stick together!

Nope, I don't qualify for help from the gov't, never do, always that in between place, not enough to pay the bills, too much to get help.  If I didn't owe on my place I'd be okay.

Yeah, people know the work arounds, that's for sure.  Don't know how I'll even pay for Medicare when the time comes.  I have to stay here as long as my animals are alive.  Miss Mocha might adjust to a move, but not Arlie and Kitty.  Am probably going to have to defer my property taxes which means nothing for the kids when I go, but I have to live.  Maybe it's getting time to sell those Coach purses George bought me.  I hate to, but I only use a couple and I know he'd rather I eat.  Sometimes life's choices suck. 

So your sister has used all your mom's $?  That's awful!  It's always easier looking back and seeing what should have been done.

 

[Margm]

Yes, my mom's money is gone and now the land and house, that is paid for, will probably have to be sold.  But, I look on it this way.  Taking care of my mom all these years has paid my mom back all that was taken, and probably a million dollars over what is gone.  But there is still..........what to do now.  Right now, today, it is the minutia, the mundane, "fiddly dee, I will worry about that tomorrow."

[mittam99]

For those who don't know who these Mutt and Jeff characters were that Marg mentioned, here's a picture...

Tammy was 5'2" and I'm 6'1" so I guess you might say Tammy always looked up to me.

[MartyT]

In more ways than one, Mitch ~ I'm sure! 

[Margm]

I am putting this on the topic I started.  I want you to know, when I was in Louisiana, my plans were all made, all I had to do was get up here and implement them.  I am here.  This is as hard as the first week.  I see his things everywhere.  Right where he left them.  How am I going to get rid of anything?  All of this stuff has been put into action.  I have an apartment.  I cannot stay up here..  I need to be where I can help with my mom.  I also have other family.  My granddaughter goes to the counselor once a week, the counselor wants me to bring her.  Other things I cannot talk about.  This is Billy's heart, he would take her to counseling.  She would trust him.  I have to do it.  She has physical therapy she has to go to.  He would do that too, if I was not there.  We have raised this child.  I know what the meaning of being "between the devil and the deep blue sea" means now.  Packing his things away just stabs me in the heart.  And, I don't think that is too dramatic.  I am finding things he gave me at 33 years.  You know living with a man for 54 years can collect a lot of memories.  Got to do it.  Cannot quit.  But, everything that pertains to him goes into big plastic boxes/buckets with lids that won't fly off.  I will go through them later. I wonder if it will be any easier?