If You're Going Through Hell

[Widowedbysuicide]

I feel very fortunate to have been friends then married to my husband.  Having him in my life all those years he was always good to me and for me.  Adjusting to him being gone isn't easy, the fact that he suicided makes it harder.  He has my heart ? forever.

Reading your stories Gin, Kay, and Marg gave me greater understanding of each of you.  Also, I smiled and shed tears for each of you. ?

[Margm]

I married right out of business school.  My mom did not want me to take the best job offer, small town.  I honestly did want to be one of those go-go dancers way before your time. but my deacon dad would have disowned me.  My new husband (was all talk) and said no wife of his was gonna work.  I asked to use "our" car one day and he said "No!"  He told me marriage was 75-25. Out of the frying pan into the fire.  I couldn't run from one prison to another.  Years passed and that ogre became my best friend ever.  By that time marriage was 100% both of us.    I would not change a thing except I would have liked 54 more years. 

[Margm]

Since I read my last book, don't remember the name of it, I left it in the washateria, but I mentioned it on here.  The man visited a place where Jesus was.  He was in a coma for either months or weeks and when he came back, Jesus said it was not his time, he spent years being actually living with a disaster for a body.  He did not want to be here but he could tell no one because he had a family.  I know it was a book, but it was not written as fiction.  It was one man. Many skeptical men vouched for the man, the man himself.  But, my son had the same brief experience.  I hope it is that way, I hope Billy does not want to come back, but it has shut down my talking to him.  I know this is just my problem and it is one I don't want corrected because I want to believe Billy is in a place he does not want to leave, I don't want him to have worry or pain and believe time to them is no more.  But I did not think he could get further away from me, but he is.  My superstition, magic, mysticism is no more.  I felt like Billy helped me find the nugget.  I felt he and I finished reading the book he loved.  I don't feel he found the folder for me. I don't ever want him to hurt again.  Sometimes when things get too much for me though, I wish he could help.  I know this crosses the religious/faith/no faith line, and I know no one can help me.  I don't cry much anymore.

I did find my big box of CD's from the 1950's.  I can listen to everyone without crying.  I did not know Billy then.  

[Gin]

Marg,

It is like that for me, also.  I can get involved in things that I never shared with Al.  I joined a non fiction book club.  We never did that, so it is ok.    I want to share what I am reading with him, but of course we know that is not possible.  I want to see what he thinks about what I am reading.  I want his opinions about the current political situations.  I want, I want, I want. 

[kayc]

Well Marg, if George and I had married so young it might have taken us 30 years to get it right too!  As it was, it's as if our lives were in preparation for each other, so that when we did meet, we clicked, we went together perfectly, but by then we were in our 40s and had learned a lot.  We were each on our separate path, not even realizing we were preparing for each other so we could be together.  Had we met in our teens it probably would have ended as it did with him and his first wife.  She wasn't a bad person, they just weren't grown up enough yet, they had a lot to learn.  I talked with her a couple of hours after he died, I'm glad we had that conversation.  She said, "You weren't married to the same person I was."  I told her I knew, that he had told me about it.  I feel so lucky, even though it was way shorter than we would have liked.

Gin, I miss getting to have political discussions with him.  Or even help trying to get rid of that darned mouse that's ruining my car!

[Margm]

I used to play the game of remaking ourselves.  After we retired the first time (for me), we stopped one time at a seniors only park and they wanted to see our driver's license.  Then family made us get off the road and we made ourselves trailer park people (I loved that), then farmers, then little town dwellers again, then we finally had to settle down for 10 years so our granddaughter could have roots.  We lived many lives.  When we first got married we moved every 3-4 months.  No furniture, just boxes.  He used to tease me that every time the dishes got dirty I was ready to move.  Finally into the RV's and could move our home all around within driving range of our jobs.  We were definitely not homesteaders, but managed to stay there long enough in a brix and stix house so our kids could go to the same school, we were there 17 years, then built the house on the lake and was going to stay on the big porch and just look out at the water, or on the big pier.  Billy caught an eight pound bass off that cypress tree covered pier.  We never sat on the porch long.  It was boring.  Even Billy got tired of the lake house, and that had been his dream all those years.  So we bought our first RV and our life had been found.  We did a lot of living, fussing, and loving in those 54 years, and a whole lot of growing up and forgiving.  

[KATPILOT]

Kathy and I both knew and talked about how we never would have been right for each other had we met earlier in life. I for one was way too immature and had a hell of a lot of growing up to do. The one thing that sticks in my mind about our earlier lives is how she never married till she met me knowing all of the men she had met and been involved with were just not who she wanted to marry. She never wanted to marry anyone till she met me and she never wanted children until she met me. Sadly we both knew we were too far along in life to have had  children together yet that was a source of sadness for her. Today I wish we had for as I was talking with Patty last night she had the same experience and we both today would have a child we would be raising on our own. The truth is however we would have had a piece of them and that would have been sweet and wonderful.

It is interesting reading what some of you have written about the evolution of a marriage and how some people change together over time and grow together while some grow apart. I know my first marriage of twenty years was neither. We were never right for each other and we never changed who we were. We just endured twenty years of bad road.

[Margm]

Steve, maybe because he was 20 and I was 18, and we married for all the wrong reasons, and we weathered storms that should have destroyed us, sometimes I felt I almost hated him and sometimes he would look at me like I knew he wanted to be somewhere else, but we could not stand to be away from each other either.  We were separated for six weeks once, yet we saw each other every day.  I miss him.

[scba]

I have come to visit hell this night, feeling the ultimate loneliness and the deep roots of my soul wound, as if it were the first day.

Tonight I had a major grief episode and following breakdown. I don't know how I will forget this episode and what caused it. I've realised how alone I am, I have no one to call and tell about what happened and how much pain I feel. I spent hours weeping and not knowing who to call. I called nobody. I am going to bed with my heart in million pieces. If this pain from the soul is not hell I wonder what could it be.

On Monday I will put my mask and go on with a lie that everything is ok, cause life goes on. After all, tomorrow is another day, Scarlet said. 

Yes, he is gone. None of that would have happened if he were alive.

And for the first time, I felt he left me alone and behind. 

 

 

 

[Widowedbysuicide]

So sorry you had such a rough night Ana.   I've had a few of those and have thought the same things you are.  When we have no one to call it really puts the emptiness in our faces (hearts ?).  My heart breaks when I think of all I lost when he died.

I will think of you and hope that commenting on here helps you through your pain.  

?

[DaveM]

Ana,

Please know that the folks here care for you and share your misery.  There has been and is no pain like this. We can't lessen it, but we share it.

Dave

[kayc]

Ana,

I'm sorry you had a break down.  I wish you'd come on here, someone likely would be up to respond.  We care about you and are just so sorry you're having such a rough time.  I think the loneliness and feeling there's no one that gives a rip about me is the hardest part to deal with.  I mean like when you have surgery and your kids don't even call to see if you made it through it, that's the worst feeling in the world.  Or going through a really rough place and no one to call, or at least no one who'd understand.  It's amazing how much we need them and they're gone to us for this life.

[Margm]

9 hours ago, scba said:

And for the first time, I felt he left me alone and behind. 

He did, they did, and I have hit that low many times.  They were so much a part of our life, they were our life, and now we are a hollowed out shell.  And they, well, we don't know where they are.  But in our heart of hearts we know they would not have left except they had to.  No matter how they left us, no matter when, or in what condition their mind was in when they left, they had no choice.

Now, we have no choice.  And although I am not at my lowest right now, I got up thinking he was beside me, thinking I had to go to the bank, thinking I have two other people in my house I have to think about too, thinking I had a big chunk of money from tax returns, thinking I have to pay for my Mama's succession, thinking I want to be taken back to AR hospital to die, why do we (I) have to pay $1500 to settle Mama's estate, an estate I want no part of, but it has to be paid anyhow, and luckily I get money back from income tax to pay it.  I had to get out of bed.  There is some quote, and I cannot remember it, but it says "you think too much" and there is more to it.  Well, it is Easter Sunday, I cannot go to the bank.  There are people who have to be fed and I am  out of groceries (almost) and people that depend on me.  Too many people.  

[Margm]

And, rather than edit the above, I will just apologize.  Honestly, I have a lot of people who care for me.  But, I have a lot of people who depend on me too.  I know I should thank God that I have all these people, and I do.  A silly analogy is this.  You have German Chocolate cake.  My aunt used to make me a cherry cake.  Those, as a kid, were heaven on earth.  They were wonderful, so they let me have my fill of both of them.  I got so sick.  Now, they are neither my favorites.  Sometimes you can starve for affection/food/attention and you have none.  Then sometimes you have so much on your plate that you cannot consume it all.  No matter how hard you try.  There once was a time I got to thinking of people as vampires.  

And, then there is the opposite.  There is no one that wants the burden of caring, or showing they care.  My grandmother raised nine children in all, six of them hers.  I remember the letters my mama would get when I was a teenager, the letters had been sealed and snuff was on the outside.  I remember my mama fussing "Does she think all I have to do is think about her?  I have to work, I have kids to take care of, my husband works, when does she think I have time, yada, yada, yada."  All of this in answer to a little country mouse of a grandmother that was only asking for a visit ever so often.  

Can't there be a happy medium?  

[KarenK]

PURPOSE--------------I have been thinking about this for some time now, even more so since I watched last week's episode of "Underground". Harriet Tubman was relating the events of her childhood and fight for freedom. The gist of one of her statements was that you could endure anything if you had a purpose.

Yes, I am enduring, but what is my purpose now? I truly can't think of one. I can almost understand how Ron felt as he became more and more ill. He couldn't eat, drink, leave the house, take care of his personal needs, or contribute to society anymore. He felt that he was just taking up space and using air that someone else could use. From age 17, I have always had someone to take care of, provide for, love and nurture, someone who needed me. It is hard to no longer have any of that. I love my son and grandchildren, but they don't really need me. They can do fine on their own.

I'm still searching for that new purpose.

[Gwenivere]

5 hours ago, Marg M said:

He did, they did, and I have hit that low many times.  They were so much a part of our life, they were our life, and now we are a hollowed out shell.  And they, well, we don't know where they are.  But in our heart of hearts we know they would not have left except they had to.  No matter how they left us, no matter when, or in what condition their mind was in when they left, they had no choice.

 I wish I had had wrote this myself, Marg.  You so nailed it.  I have to keep reminding myself of this each and every day.  I try to not think about the 'why us?' When I see so many bad relationships or hear complaints.  We were just nobody's doing our thing and why did death takes notice of us?  Any of us?  I know it has to come eventually, but can't say we had that long enough life as to expect it.

I'm glad you can handle the people depnding on you.  I have a hard time with just myself and the 2 dogs.  

[Gwenivere]

1 hour ago, KarenK said:

The gist of one of her statements was that you could endure anything if you had a purpose.

I'm still searching for that new purpose.

I've come to hate that word.  That and 'meaning'.   I lived until Steve's death never giving a thought to those concepts.  It just came naturally being together.  Purpose came in so many forms without having to look for it.  It was just......there.  Never even thought about it, just carried on each day in contentment and feeling my life was comfortably right for me.  I hiss inside like a snake when told I was left behind for some purpose.  

I was watching Jackie, the movie, and this was some counsel she got from a priest.  I had to write it down for the times I drove myself crazy about purpose and meaning.

********************

There comes a time in mans search for meaning when one realizes there is no answer.   And when you come to that horrible, unavoidable realization, you accept it or you kill yourself.  Or, you simply stop searching.

*********************

I speak only for myself, of course, and think I understand the frustration because the more I search, the more frustrated I become.  It's either there or it isn't and no force of will can make it happen.  It's an empty way to navigate the world now because the lack of both purpose and meaning is something I never felt.  Just like I have never felt alone ever in my life until he died.  I look back and now see how friends and family left along the way, but I had him so it didn't leave me stranded in the world.  Before him, I was discovering the world, had my parents and family and friends drifted in and out depending on what I was doing.  It was a time when life was new and concepts of it ending were incomprehensible.  Life was just filled with possibilities.  Now we see other side of the hill.  It's not as bright as was the other.  Some find light still.  I'm happy for them and wonder if it will happen for me.  But I am prepared it may not.  That creates a whole different dilemma, but mine to bear.  I guess I think about more since I am in my 3rd year.  I didn't know it could feel worse.  A few softened sharp edges would help.

[scba]

Thank you everybody for your compassion and support. I'm doing better.

About meaning and purpose, I suggest Frankl's Man's search for meaning:  

“An abnormal reaction to an abnormal situation is normal behavior.” 
― Viktor E. Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning

“Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose.” 
― Viktor E. Frankl

“When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.” 

“Those who have a 'why' to live, can bear with almost any 'how'.” 
― Viktor E. Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning

“Love is the only way to grasp another human being in the innermost core of his personality. No one can become fully aware of the very essence of another human being unless he loves him. By his love he is enabled to see the essential traits and features in the beloved person; and even more, he sees that which is potential in him, which is not yet actualized but yet ought to be actualized. Furthermore, by his love, the loving person enables the beloved person to actualize these potentialities. By making him aware of what he can be and of what he should become, he makes these potentialities come true.” 

 

[kayc]

Well I guess we got the abnormal reaction to the abnormal situation but it feels anything but normal.  As I mentioned earlier, my daughter lost her much tried for and wanted baby.  Well I learned on Easter that her husband left her Friday.  Says he's not feeling it.  So now my beautiful daughter is completely heartbroken, all her dreams up in smoke.  I'm sure she feels so betrayed.  He won't go for marriage counseling which is what he needs.    Life is never made unbearable by circumstances???  I think my daughter's situation is sorely trying that theory.  He says he wants to be happy.  She's tried so hard to make him happy.  I told him she can't make him happy, that's something that has to come from within himself.  I also told her she's not chopped liver, she's a child of the king and God sees her as valuable.  To top it off, I don't know how she's going to meet rent.  She can always stay with me but I'm quite a ways from her work.

[Margm]

Kay, I'm so sorry.  I am remiss in reading sometimes, I think.  I did not know she had lost her baby.  I know you say you never hear from her.  Now her husband is leaving.  I do not know the situation, have no idea of the situation, but maybe there was a controlling element there that you might not have seen.  Being married for so long at such a young age, I was married to many men in that one man.  But the little girl he married, she could be a conniving, cheating, lying witch at times too.  We were one of the lucky ones, we weathered the trials and became friends, but there were many times it might not have ended that way.  We never know really what goes on in other families.  I hope she has support among those she works with.  This is going to be very hard for her and she might need her Mama at one time or the other.  You can give good advice because you have been through the fire yourself.  I know your smarter than I am though, I have to watch myself or I say way too much............well, you can imagine.  Actually, I do my talking on here, I do not approve of either of my kids choices for mates, but I don't have to approve, they do.   

[Margm]

After the loss we try all kinds of remedies to alleviate the suffering.  Of course, nothing works, but we keep on trying.  One fellow that I read often is Alan D. Wolfelt, Ph.D.  He has a book called "Grief, One Day at a Time."  At first I read it every day.  I don't know if it helped, but I came to like this fellow.  I don't know if he has been through those flames we walk through on Earth himself, but somehow I feel an understanding heart, like Marty has.  I had his book at the bottom of my laundry cart and picked it up.  Have not read it in a long time.  Does that mean that I did not need his daily advice, or did it just mean my memory did not remind me.  My memory is terrible.  Today I picked it up, and you know Billy took my magic, mystic life with him and left me with his disbelieving in miracles.  "I am him, he is me."  He did take part of me with him when he left.

You know how I hate dates.  Today is the 17th, it is now 18 months.  Today he said "Trying to forget doesn't work, in fact, it's pretty much the same as remembering." (Rebecca Steed).  He wrote a lot more, it hit home.  I am not cured, but I am showed the truths I already knew but was not fluent in the grief language enough to say it.  

"When we learn to embrace our memories, instead----allowing and even encouraging them, then befriending whatever feelings they evoke---we find that we gain energy by giving up the pretense of forgetting.  We let the power of memory wash over us and carry us forward."

I wish I could just see those high cheekbones, the trimmed beard, the blue eyes, and feel those soft sweet hands.  But, I am not crying.  

[Gin]

Well, Marge.  I am.  I remember Al's blue eyes and his touch and I am crying.

[Gin]

Marge,

I just passed the 18th month and guess what?  No easier. At least not for me.

[Margm]

No, it is not easier Gin.  When they left, we knew they were gone.  We still know they are gone.  Not a single, solitary thing we can do about it.  Our own bodies are here but our heart and most of our brain are still on another realm.

Last night I watched the salute to the BeeGee's and I was by myself part of the time.  I cried whatever part of my heart that is left completely out, but I still am here and he is not.

[Gin]

Kaye,

So sorry to hear about your daughter's problems.  I am sure she is devastated.  And you, too.