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If You're Going Through Hell


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Kay, the organization of the group I attended was called GriefShare.  I believe it is a wonderful group and provides much care and solace for many people.  I do have the workbook, and I do receive their forum missive each night.  Sometimes it helps me.  We lose many things in our life, how we accept it or don't accept it is a personal feeling.  I won't say choice, because if I were given a choice, I would choose no grief period.  But this is life.  And, this is death.  Myself, my own personal opinion, is my grief is too big to reach around it or touch the top.  Myself, my own personal opinion, is that losing a child would not be reachable in any shape, form, or matter.  Just my own personal belief.  And, leaving each meeting after crying because a woman's grown son was missing for so long, then found in the hunter's woods recently, it did not just touch me, it hammered in the times I thought I might come home and find my drug taking son deceased from an overdose or hanging from a tree.  He did not want to live.  And, I died many times myself from knowing this.  Knowing that an organization had sent him to collect money owed from drugs and him getting himself shot and coding on the table so many times they  just had to sew him back up until they could try again.  I relived these times with these mothers, and at the time I was going to the meetings, I was having a very hard time myself.  Selfish, maybe so.  I could not bring this home with me when I was already burdened down, and I do not feel ashamed of myself for leaving.  You have to do what you have to do.  You really do have to think of yourself.  Marty and you helping others on here, you both teach that you have to take time for yourself and I could not face finding this young man in the hunter's woods with his mother having his favorite stew waiting at home.

I have found, sometimes I do have to be selfish, and I am doing this right now with a relative needing my help, but I just don't have enough money.  

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I also attended Grief Share. It was a small group, each of us experiencing different losses, a mother , brother, spouse, or child. For me, the most significant part was that even though we were all hurting, the entire group bonded together to share each others pain. It made it just a little easier to bear.

It is difficult to explain the different grief of losing a spouse and a child. Both are devastating. For me, losing Ron is so "in your face" because we were always together, while losing Debbie stays on the fringes because we lived so far apart. My brain can almost pretend that she is still alive, but definitely knows that he is gone.

There will always be two pieces of my heart missing.

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It is a wonderful organization.  My friend had gone to it and belongs to the church that sponsors it.  Sometimes things don't fit all sizes.  After cancer I tried going to a cancer survivors group.  I went one time.  Could not handle it.  My son said when he went to the drug anonymous group like AA, he came away from there wanting drugs while my sister's lifeline was AA to help her get sober.  Like I said, one size does not fit all.  I very seldom get off the "spouses" section of this forum.  There are a lot of other topics that cover a lot of things that might help me also.  I can't swim, so sometimes I stay in the shallow end of the pool.

I better put an addendum to that.  What I mean is I stay in the section I understand.  One night or day I might wear my floaties and get a little deeper in the pool. 

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14 minutes ago, Marg M said:

 I can't swim, so sometimes I stay in the shallow end of the pool.

I'm not so sure Marg. You seem like a pretty good swimmer to me. Matter of fact, I think the spouse/partner end of this pool is actually pretty darn deep. ;)

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That is why I stay in the shallow end.  I always have so much to say, if my mouth was moving I would be taking in water and drowning.  I won't mention anything keeping me afloat.

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My rule is to talk about my own experience but I'll break it & say I can't imagine going deeper than losing my other half of 48 years, my whole purpose in life. 

Ive been sober in AA for 26 years and it has been a tremendous help. The support network I already had in place has stepped up to supporting me in my grief. I talked about my loss at the 7am meeting every day on my recent Ptown vacation, people were wonderful, & that was a big part of how I was able to get thru all the "first without Susan". In her book "Ruthless Grieving" Susan Powers has suggested a version of the 12 steps for grief. 

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20 hours ago, Widowedbysuicide said:

I absolutely love what you have said here Kay.

Can I share some of this with my tiny group of friends?  

 

I am so sorry for your losses.  You have had far too much experience with grieving. ?

Of course!

19 hours ago, Marg M said:

how we accept it or don't accept it is a personal feeling.  I won't say choice, because if I were given a choice, I would choose no grief period.

It's interesting how differently we view words.  I see choice as choosing between the possibiities open to us.  No grief period is not an option open to us.  What is left, that is what I have to choose from.  I see the word choice as empowering because it's something I decide.  When George was taken from me that was not something I got a say in.  How I do this journey is something I get to decide.


 

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19 hours ago, Marg M said:

it hammered in the times I thought I might come home and find my drug taking son deceased from an overdose or hanging from a tree.

I can't imagine how hard those sessions must have hit you when these are the thoughts coming to your mind.  It is good to know when something is too much for us or unhealthy for us.  No matter how wonderful an organization, no matter how needed it is, for you it was not helpful by the very content of exposure and I think you do well to recognize that and protect yourself.  You have very good instincts, Marg, you know what you need and what you don't and I think you are smart for that!

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1 hour ago, kayc said:

It's interesting how differently we view words.  I see choice as choosing between the possibiities open to us.  No grief period is not an option open to us.  What is left, that is what I have to choose from.  I see the word choice as empowering because it's something I decide.  When George was taken from me that was not something I got a say in.  How I do this journey is something I get to decide.

 

When I tell some people that pictures and memories of Susan bring me the pain of loss instead of warmth, they think that's a choice, that I am deliberately taking the negative approach. I have to explain that's just what my system does, I have no choice.

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On 7/14/2017 at 9:34 AM, TomPB said:

When I tell some people that pictures and memories of Susan bring me the pain of loss instead of warmth, they think that's a choice, that I am deliberately taking the negative approach. I have to explain that's just what my system does, I have no choice.

My daughter finds solace in posting her dad's picture.  They have moved back to where we retired.  Gets angry with me because I cannot go back.  We just do not all handle things the same way.  I even bought new everything, nothing that Billy has used or seen.  Why?  I have no idea.  I have all of his things in boxes, have not opened them.  I do sleep with his clothes between my pillows.  My cousin used to come up to where we retired.  It is a vacation heaven.  It is a paradise.  When Billy left, it was hell.  I never understood why my cousin could not return to where she and her husband had the most fun, their vacation every year, something they looked forward to.  Then he passed away.  Now 20 years later she cannot return even now.  I never understood.

I now understand.  

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1 hour ago, TomPB said:

When I tell some people that pictures and memories of Susan bring me the pain of loss instead of warmth, they think that's a choice, that I am deliberately taking the negative approach. I have to explain that's just what my system does, I have no choice.

People tend to project on us what they think they would do in our situation. They imagine that if they lost their spouse they would pull themselves up by the bootstraps and handle every situation with a glass half full attitude. We represent the effects of death. We are a living reminder of the ultimate pain so they project to make themselves feel like they would be ok. Our reactions to the cornucopia of situations and stimuli we deal with have nothing to do with any choice we make. And sometimes the same situation garners a different response on different days. It's like taking every possible negative human emotion and throwing them into a blender. We mix it on high for 2 minutes and then we get to pour some out several times each day. We get what we get whether we want to or not and we have no choice but to drink up and pretend we're enjoying it.

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11 hours ago, Eagle-96 said:

People tend to project on us what they think they would do in our situation. They imagine that if they lost their spouse they would pull themselves up by the bootstraps and handle every situation with a glass half full attitude. We represent the effects of death. We are a living reminder of the ultimate pain so they project to make themselves feel like they would be ok. Our reactions to the cornucopia of situations and stimuli we deal with have nothing to do with any choice we make.

Eagle, you have hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. I myself have always imagined what I would do, say or how I would react in certain situations. To some extent that's a product of serving in the military. In training we would drill, drill, drill, to be prepared to react in a specific way when presented with certain situations. In school we drill or practice for assignments or speeches. So I can see that many people probably think they would act this way or that, and cannot figure why we can't. It's unfathomable to them what it's really like. 

Oh, and your statement, " sometimes the same situation garners a different response on different days " exactly describes me. Because there's nothing that can prepare us for this. Nothing.

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21 hours ago, TomPB said:

When I tell some people that pictures and memories of Susan bring me the pain of loss instead of warmth, they think that's a choice, that I am deliberately taking the negative approach. I have to explain that's just what my system does, I have no choice.

Tom,

When I lost George, I can't tell you how many times his picture went up, down, up, down, depending on how it affected me.  How it hits us is not our "choice", our "choice" is how we deal with it.  The pictures were more than I could bear, so I protected myself.  In time, they brought comfort, so I cashed in on that.  It's so important to be in tune with ourselves and do what is best for us at the time.  Yes, we have to let ourselves grieve, but I was doing PLENTY of that without the pictures being the final straw!

Marg,

Your post is an example of what we're talking about.  We react how we do and may not even know why it hits us as it does, and it may not make sense to anyone else...it doesn't have to.  What's important is we do what is right for us.

Eagle,

You hit the nail on the head!

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21 hours ago, DaveM said:

. So I can see that many people probably think they would act this way or that, and cannot figure why we can't. It's unfathomable to them what it's really like. 

Oh, and your statement, " sometimes the same situation garners a different response on different days " exactly describes me. Because there's nothing that can prepare us for this. Nothing.

This is so right on.  A woman I know once told me all the things she would be doing for her grief if she lost her wife.  It was all very organized and sounded quite logical.  What was missing is that it has not happened to her.  She couldn't understand why I was not doing some of things she had planned.  One was a real life support group I already checked out and didn't feel right for me.  She also can't figure in having a panic disorder that makes many things very hard.  She also has more friends and family than I could count.  I have no one, big difference right there.  She doesn't have to worry if something happened to her and care for her home or dogs.  She told me she had lived alone before.  I did too before Moving in with then marrying Steve for over 30 years.  Like this is a comparison?  I was young, dating and my family was alive before that.  My life was filled with opportunities and choices.  Never a dull moment.  I certainly wasn't the 61 year old woman with health,typical aging and big financial issues.  I was immortal as we all were.

I would never dream of telling a fellow griever what to do.  I do know I would only offer my experience if asked.  I had the short pleasure of knowing a resident where I volunteer who totally understood and could bounce the crazy thinking off him and find I was normal.  Like weekends being so hard.  The 'our' time.  I only volunteer on  Saturdays for something to do.  I like they look forward to seeing me, but I would rather be hanging with Steve.  I'm viewed as dedicated, not desperate.  I feel bad about the accolades because they aren't really true.  My 2 other days there were enough and rewarding.  

So here is the now.  Something I could have never imagined.  Anyone ever watch TV shows or movies and see the spouses left behind functioning so much better?  Rarely is the depiction real.

Side note: had to edit this as I said this woman HAD lost her wife.   She has not so all her observations of my handling grief come from no experience beyond well laid out plans thinking grief is like setting up your retirement accounts.

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My going through hell has been filled with all the usual things that happen after the death of a longtime life partner. Some things are different because my husband made the decision to end his life without any warning to me.  We had no Will in place and very little money to cover expenses.  I have lost so much since his death.  There have been pet cats that have passed, my one horse had to be euthanized in September and before the year ended another horse died of old age. Girlfriends have moved away and everyone I cared about and that cared about me is gone.  I feel betrayed by my in-laws since my mother-in-law passed in December.  I was devastated when I found out that some of my husband's cremains were spread in an area where people take their dogs to toilet them.  When I told my sister-in-law that's what happens there she simply said, "I don't care".  That more than adequately sums up the concern they have for me.  I can't feel any comfort hugging a box of cremains.

I was hoping with this month things would improve.  I will be 60 on Wednesday and I feel like a discarded person.  I've done my best for people only to be treated poorly.  I am angry with myself for being so desperate for a friend to talk to that I allowed myself to be used as a taxi driver, a person to dump rage and hate on, and to be demeaned by a person I thought was a friend.  I feel angry and stupid.  Someday I hope I will smarten up and use better judgement.  The trade off for a few good conversations and two lunches was to have my husband's suicide thrown in my face.  This man wrote to me on messanger, “are you that naive? and are you the only one that dosen't know why Gord took his life? Or are you just in denial? Not trying to be mean but cyber and phone friends are not friends.  I tried.” and finally, “My life is good. I just want one true friend. Not users.”

I honestly don't know how much more abuse I can take.  This is the same person that was threatening suicide and thought it was funny.  He owes me money that I will never get back but that is not the worst of it.  What is worse is he has stolen my confidence and my sense of security.  He chose to hurt me this way because I stopped asking how high when he told me to jump.  I refused to continue being his puppet.  Mistakenly I told him that I have reconnected with my first boss.  I can not make sense of this and I'm shaken to the core.

Thanks for listening. I really don't trust myself to trust anyone.  Yet I know I need to talk to someone about how worthless and shameful I feel.

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Marita,

One of the things losing them does to us is erode our feelings of self worth.  We've lost the one person that thought the world of us and no one replaces that.  I'm in the quest to find friends too, even one really good friend would be great, it's slow go.  Lots of acquaintances.  

The person that wrote that to you is horrid.  Gord took his life because he didn't feel he could go on, not because of YOU.  That anyone could intimate that makes me want to smack the hell out of them.  Sorry, that's how I feel.

I pray you realize your self worth and value, and that you deserve so much...I know, like me, you haven't gotten it, but I still hope someday our ship will come, so to speak.  To have even glimmers of hope that something will improve. I keep working at it.  Sometimes it just flat out gets discouraging.  

You've suffered a lot of loss, that's a lot to deal with.  

You may not be able to go to lunch with a cyber friend, or get a hug, thus it's not the same as being across from a flesh and blood friend, but it's still a friend.  It's someone with whom you've shared your heart, told your deepest thoughts to, someone who understands and cares.  That's worth more than a can of beans.  I've had people tell me that too, I figure "What do they know?!"  You all are like a family to me.  You understand me more than my own flesh and blood family because you've suffered loss in a way that they haven't, you've lived alone in the way that they haven't, you get my struggles and understand my smallest achievements, what a victory they are.  You all mean the world to me.

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It's a strange new realization we come to when we lose our spouses. Most of humanity sees our plight and wants to do whatever they can to assuage the pain we feel. They want to do anything in their power to help us but most just don't know how. BUT, that large percentage of humanity has their hearts in the right place just not the know-how to turn the sympathy into actionable and meaningful help. It's not their fault, they simply don't know what to do. THEN there is that small percentage of people(I shutter to refer to them as humanity as they are far from human) that treat us as if we have done something wrong. It's as if it is our fault that our spouse passed away. Or that we are to be punished because we are the living reminder of death and the pain it brings. To most of society, we are to be pittied. To some we are to be viewed as lepers, best to be stowed away on an island or in a cave as to be far out of view. 

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I love your post, Eagle.  I just want so much to matter to one person.  Truly matter as I did .  This is the first time in my life I have not.  Also to have someone that so mattered to me.

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It's a first for me too, Gwen.

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It's so odd how things can progress.  You start as someone's child, develop best friends, date people and finally meet the one.  When that happens, all is in place.  Or so we think.  Parents die, friends may slip away, but that foundation eases that.   It's like the searching is over.  We've finally found exactly where we want to be.  

I spend many days and nights now thinking of quality of life.  It's slipped thru my fingers.  What are my reasons for motivation to keep going on?  I am now so aware of what I buy because there is no sharing.  I don't buy fun stuff like a new TV because what's the fun of upgrading as Steve would have loved doing it and now it would be strangers  when all I do is use it to kill time?  My dogs lives are drastically changed now that it all falls on me.  I know more than I ever wanted to about wifi, computers and brokerage accounts that I skipped merrily thru life not cluttering my brain.  I have this ipad now I never needed and play video games at night to kill time that I used to spend content even if he was doing something else.  It was fun at first but now I am aware of how pathetic it feels.  My nights are so regimented just to get thru them.   Going to bed knowing I get to do it all over again the next day.  

I know none of us ever envisioned writing posts about such searing pain.  Being so misunderstood by the people now around us.  My computer time was emails with people sharing all things they and we were doing.  My counseling was about minor challenges I wanted help bouncing off a neutral party.  Not sobbing begging for help to find reason in life again. Not lost.  Not feeling like I'm paying for a friend for an hour.

Grateful that I am for this place and all of you that are so compassionate, I wish we could all quit.  Wish we never needed to come here.  Might have put Marty out if a job, but she is resourceful and maybe had a site for oh......macrame junkies hiding in closets or people obsessed with Sasquatch. 

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Well girl, think your gonna make it.  Know you don't really care, but I see the humorous Gwen slipping through.  That is why Grace and Frankie helped me so, I figured if I could laugh then maybe I might make it.  And, they are not everyone's cup of tea.  My son has watched "My Name is Earl" all the way through, all the episodes about 3-4 times.  I think we are all a bit depressed because tomorrow is Billy's birthday and everyone would have to fill the list he made out from Father's Day.  We didn't call him Billy the Kid for nothing.  

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Hear you Gwen. Friends and family & therapists say hopeful things. I want to believe but I'm not stupid. I've experienced Susan's love & they have not. I'm very doubtful that the future can be anything like as good. Best wishes TomPB

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