when you have to be with people who don't understand...

[Patty65]

so... I've already deleted what I wrote once. let's see if i can get through it this time.

My new business partner.  Her presence will relieve a ton of financial stress, already has.  Nothing official yet, but she's bought shares and infused money to keep us going.  She is ecstatic to be part of the business. But she doesn't understand.  And it is SO hard to be around her.  I know she doesn't know what she is saying.  But it is like dagger upon dagger.  Her personality is ultra cheerful (read 'cheerleader'), and she has spent the last week trying to convince me to go to a 4th party with other couples tonight, even though I've told her I couldn't at least half a dozen times.  She comes in today wearing a holiday head piece with bouncing dangling flags and stars, and one for me.  I say I can't.  She keeps trying.  She 'catches' me in the office sobbing today.  She tries to cheer me up.  Ron would want me happy, she says, maybe even finding someone else, and am I sure I won't go to the party tonight.  There's been much more. Like when I confided in her my sleep issues, she told me to go to bed thinking of 10 things (including her) to be grateful for.  She means well, but it tears out my heart.  This is someone I will be working close with.  I don't know how I will survive.  I feel my reactions make me judgmental of her and a total b*tch.  I don't know how to handle the dynamics here anymore.   I don't know how to take the well-meaning daggers. How do you deal with people you have to be around that just don't get it?

Patty 

[rdownes]

I have started trying to tell myself they just don't understand and won't unless they experience loss I never did my husband Kevin 's father passed when he was 13 he would talk about himonce in awhile but every year on his dad's birthday he would sleep the day away because it was to hard to deal with, Iwould think it has been 30 plus years how can he still be sad I never understood until now, my cousin lost his mom a year ago I told him the typical things I am sorry she's in a better place nothing that truly helps you or validates your pain, so I am trying tocope better with people though not easy, and it can be difficult to be around happy people sometimes not that you wish them to have to experience what you are going through because it is hell, but in that at least for me my happiness came from my soulmate and he is gone.

[Clematis]

1 hour ago, Patty65 said:

I don't know how to take the well-meaning daggers. How do you deal with people you have to be around that just don't get it?

This is what you do when someone -someone you need- is driving you crazy. You listen to the message, and ignore the delivery. Don't engage in a bunch of froth; respond like a broken record. This is what I mean:

Yes, Ron would want you happy, but it's not going to happen today or this week or this month. If she doesn't hear you, say it again and go make some pasta. Right now you're focusing on trying to save the business. It means a lot to you. Focus on the message. Focus on the business. She is trying to help you with money you need. Great. Take her help but set limits. You don't want other partners, and have made it clear to her. If she doesn't hear you, say it again and go make some pasta. Stick to the basics. Run the business. Take her help and use the money to run the business. Set boundaries. She is there to contribute money and her time/energy/assets to save the business. You don't have to party with her or wear her hats or anything else. You can keep on an even keel and be pleasant and firm. You can say thank you, and get back to the business. Tell her thank you and you can tell her to go make some pasta while you finish sobbing and then you will go make some pasta. If she gives you advice you don't want you can say, "Thank you-that's very thoughtful". You don't have to do it, you can go do the books or go make some pasta. Or ask her to go make some pasta while you think about it.

Listen to the message, ignore the delivery, and be a broken records to set limits. She is not your new best friend; she is a business partner. Run the business and go home.

[Clematis]

It is a pasta shop, isn't it?

[Gwenivere]

This is a tough one since she is your business partner.  All I can think of that I would do is find a time to have a serious face to face defining boundaries that have to be respected.  That may mean separating business from social pursuits.  Sounds like that is really needed for you.  Is this someone you normally spent a lot of time with before the partnership?  That may have to be redefined too.  I have always found being totally honest with someone effective.  Relationships change with life altering occurrences.  I doubt you can change her cheerleader outlook, nor should you.  But around you she needs to understand you are now changed and will be for a very long time and maybe forever.  There are people I have 'downgrade' because they just won't accept or respect my wishes.  This is about you now and your survival.  That comes first.  The last thing you need on top of your loss is trying to appease another person.   It may take multiple tries, but you keep standing firm.  By the way, everyone I am around doesn't get it.  Some are better at realizing that and those are the ones I still am grateful for.  The others?  I've barely noticed thier absence because they required too much energy.  The business thing complicated things, but you call the shots for your personal time and grief. That is non negotiable.  Sometimes we have to be a bitch.  It's kinda empowering to start taking back some of life that we are still trying to figure out.  

[KATPILOT]

Wow Patty. I have been around people who don't get it and found ways to endure but I never had to stick around long. This situation is different for you have to be with her all of the time.  Gwen has a good point.  You might have to go to the   "we need to talk" method. It may take one good private moment when you can explain how you are and how you feel and though she means well, you can't go there at the present time.  When I have a serious talk with someone, I write down what I want to say and read it a few times while tweaking it. These kinds of talks are often a 'one of' so it would be good to have your points in line while thinking how she may respond to each point.

Whatever you do, I hope things work out......... for you deserve it.

[MartyT]

You've received some excellent advice, Patty, and I hope you take it to heart. The only thing I would add is to find an article or two that you can copy, paste and print, and hand over to your business partner ~ as an indirect way to "educate" her about what you need and why. There are dozens of really good articles available nowadays on how to talk to someone who has experienced a significant loss. (Bear in mind, though, that it is up to your partner to read whatever you give her, and you have no control over whether she will read it or try to abide by it. That is why it's still essential for you to establish those clear boundaries that our other members have mentioned.)

Here are some examples:

Helping Another in Grief

Grief Support: When Others Fail to Meet Our Expectations ~ This post offers links to a long list of Related Articles and Resources.

[kayc]

Patty, I would be extremely blunt with her, some people don't catch on to anything less.  Tell her if you're going to work together that one thing she needs to respect and not try to micromanage is your grief.  It is yours personally and you will do it your way in your time and until she goes through it, she doesn't have a clue what she is talking about.  Seriously, I'd tell her all that and more!  You can't get blunt enough with people!

I had a sister constantly telling me I need to quit my job, sell my house, and move to Portland.  I am a country girl, not a city girl, and this is George and my home, where we lived and loved!  I'd tell her all that, but still she'd harp.  (She didn't need to worry about the job, it ended shortly thereafter).  I finally told her, "Polly, tell you what, when YOUR husband dies, I'll tell YOU what to do!"  She didn't call for months, but that's okay, she got my point and didn't tell me that again.

[Clematis]

I think you can work with this, Patty, because you need to. We don't know her, and she may be responsive to a direct explanation. I hope so. It would be really good for you if she can stay out of your head and not try to "fix" you. The "broken record" technique that I was demonstrating in my earlier message (I hope that wasn't terribly annoying) is for people who don't really listen, don't respect boundaries when you try to set them, and who use any information they get to manipulate you in some way. I'm not sure if that's what she's doing, but the broken record approach puts up a rather effective wall when nothing else works. Good luck!

[Patty65]

((((Hugs)))) everyone... thank you...  I have written her a detailed message a couple weeks ago about how I was feeling, and that the partnership is a point of mourning my lost future in it with Ron in lieu of a new one.  I read it back now, and I can be more direct (I thought I was, but reading it back, I wasn't quite as blunt as I could have been), and because we are new in our "friendship"/partnership I think I can do what Marty suggested, printing out an article or two for her.  I think I'm being very direct.  But I think my view of "direct" is not so direct.  But it just may take longer, and Gwen your idea of separating business from pleasure (she's dying for me to be part of her social life, and I want none of any of it) is a good start.  It just may take a lot of "No's"... which I guess is a good life lesson for me to stand my ground.  Sigh. Like I need life lessons right now.

Thanks so much guys..

Patty

[Gwenivere]

There is one more thing I thought of, Patty.  I've gotten really good at seeing this coming and maybe it will help you when you talk to your partner and give her the article Marty suggested about dealing with people in grief.  I can see it coming when they are going to offer advice and now say immediately, are you going to suggest/advise something for me?  It that tiny gap it takes thier minds to process the question, I say....please do not.  

I even dropped explaining why.  That I am an adult, can make my own decisions, am not interested in trying something that I may find I will like even if it sounds a turn off to me, the 'don't you think I have thought of that?' and many other reasons to defend my one simple request.  So many think if you would just 'try' (translate to they think you aren't which is disrespectful), you will find something.  Time brings that to each of us as it will.  Your new found 'friend' may think a night out on the town will help you.  There are people that really do think that!  It's amazing what has been presented to me.  

So, I just repeat again and again....please do not as soon as I see it coming.  It shocks some people but that is thier problem, not mine.  It works too!  Ive had some people say they were about to say something and go oops!  I forgot, no suggestions.  Then I can say thank you and mean it.

[marsha]

Patty, you've been given some wonderful advice so far. I agree with everyone. I'm glad that you have a business partner to infuse money into your business, but I'm sorry she's so annoying. (Sorry, but that's what she is). Unfortunately, she seems like the kind of person who only gets the direct route, and trust me, I know this is one more thing you don't need to deal with. Just say it. When she pushes you to go out, stand your ground. "I can't right now, and please respect my wishes", or "I have to work on the menu for tomorrow", or "I appreciate our relationship, but please know that I'm a dead woman walking right now". Or start speaking in tongues. Whatever it takes. Sending you support!  Marsha

[scba]

Patty,. In my experience, when I grieve too hard and I try to explain myself, there is no good result. I would just say "I want to keep my grief and the way I deal with it for myself and separate my personal life from business". And when she insists with suggestions I would say "thank you but I dont want to talk about it". From your description, I wonder if she would change her approach, probably you will have to be the tough one and set limits. I'm sorry you have to deal with this on top of everything else. 

[kayc]

Very, very good advice, Gwen!

[mittam99]

Patty, you titled your topic "when you have to be with people who don't understand". Unfortunately, it's pretty simple. If you are going to leave your house and be with people, you pretty much will be with people who don't understand about 100% of the time. Believe me, I know. On a daily basis, I talk to and deal with people by the hundreds. Even most of the widows and widowers I speak to don't really understand.

And here's why...

The members here at the Spouse forum are the select few. The ones who were in a relationship with their one and only true soul mate. Most couples didn't have the type of relationship we had. That's why even though there are thousands of new widows and widowers daily worldwide, we probably have less than 50 members who regularly post here. Our relationships were once in a lifetime.

Honestly, as far as trying to "educate" your new business partner regarding your feelings, it may be worth a try but don't expect the desired results. I've learned to just go with the flow around people and sort of just "consider the source" and realize they'll never react the way I want/need/expect. I do a lot of "grinning and bearing" around the public.

In a perfect world, people would know just what to say and have just the right amount of empathy for us, but that's not the world we live in, unfortunately.

[Patty65]

Hi Mitch, I agree, I just will be with her hours upon hours each day...   grinning and bearing it is hard to do for the majority of your day, every day... most people I just escape... in fact that's my existence now.    But yes, I have to come to terms with while I may get her to stop some of her behaviors, there is indeed a good chance she won't get it still.  My employees most definitely don't but given that I am their authority figure, they don't 'direct' or 'suggest' stuff to me, that's my job to do to them!  Now that I think about it, that's what made keeping everything going survivable.  I was in control, now I have shared control, to some extent.  I still do own 51+% though!

Gwen that's so true!  I constantly say in my head, "Don't you think I've thought of (or tried) that???!"  I will have to try that, hopefully I'm strong enough to say "please no advice".  I've just about lost my one old friend for that though... but as I've heard so many times here, I know that if they can't accept that, then they are not meant to be in my life so much - now, anyway.

I love the speaking in tongues idea  

Thanks everyone, she is here now, and when we can JUST stay focused on work (like today) I can keep it together.  But it's time for home-hell. 

Patty

[kayc]

I think I'd come up with some kind of a mantra and repeat it whenever necessary.  "I will grieve in my own time and way.  I am not interested in unsolicited advice or social functions."

[Clematis]

One thing about having lost a parent is that no one suggests that you should work on finding a replacement; everyone knows that you can never replace your mother or your father. But when you lose your spouse, people have all kinds of suggestions. After my mother died and my dad moved to AZ, people were always telling me that I should help him find a girlfriend to keep him company. He really didn't want anyone else-for him, it had always been her since they were kids. He said he was too tired to put in the time and work it would require for a new relationship, and he wasn't interested anyway because no one could ever replace his Patty. I'm sure he heard some of this as well. I know he really missed her for the rest of his life, but he wasn't alone or in lack of support because he had me. We both had that person that you come to at the end of the day and tell all the little things that went on during the day-someone who always cared and was interested...

[kayc]

Very good point!  It's an individual decision that people can't force and the suggestions can be resented.

[scba]

3 minutes ago, kayc said:

Very good point!  It's an individual decision that people can't force and the suggestions can be resented.

I tried all kind of tactics to prevent to be the target of these suggestions with no avail. Now that I have a job, these are "back" in the form of: "now you have a new life and you will meet a new man in your workplace for you". My new tactic is silence, plain silence until the person changes subject. Probably I'm not good at defending my point with words

[kayc]

The only thing that comes to my mind in the form of a response is, "PLEASE!!!"

[Clematis]

I have a neighbor across the street who seems to think I should be getting me a man. I went to Hawaii last summer (for a week!) and she was all excited for me that maybe I would meet a man there, and so of course when I got back she wanted to know if I had met anyone. I find this very annoying, but this woman is very sweet to me and she really really likes me.

I  responded with great enthusiasm and told her all about a very interesting homeless man I met there who lived under a an enormous bush like an upside-down bowl in a park where I eventually went every afternoon to paint flowers. He had a bed laid out in there and a bunch of other stuff, and would close up the hole he used to crawl in and out of. Not only that, there was a bigger park across the street that had a bathroom he could use! And he collected flowers from the plumeria trees and made them into leis and sold them on the streets. He kept being arrested because he didn't have a vendor'e license (he couldn't get one because the bush in the park didn't count as an address), but they never kept him long, so he could go home to his bush and keep making and selling his leis. He also had a lot of interesting stories to tell me, like about how cities in CA used to sometimes take a homeless mentally ill person and offer them a one-way ticket to Hawaii, figuring they would never be able to come back.

So this year when I went to Hawaii, she asked me if I met anyone, and I told her that no, since I was with friends most of the time, it wasn't like last year when I was alone more and had opportunities like when I met the man who lived under the bush, and started into the details of his life again. My neighbor smiled, laughed, and asked me about my flower painting. She didn't want to hear anymore about the guy who lived under the bush.

I'm not making this up! I have also responded that I already have a boyfriend (Mister Cello). Isn't he adorable? He's a perfect boyfriend-he only makes music and is charming company. And the only time he complains would be if I left him in a hot car-and I wouldn't do that...

Of course it might seem ridiculous to claim that my cello is my boyfriend, but it really isn't any more ridiculous than their assuming I want their advice about how I need a boyfriend.

 

 

[kayc]

6 hours ago, Clematis said:

Of course it might seem ridiculous to claim that my cello is my boyfriend, but it really isn't any more ridiculous than their assuming I want their advice about how I need a boyfriend.

I guess none of us like some of the free unwarranted advice that sometimes comes our way.  

[Clematis]

On July 5, 2016 at 7:39 PM, mittam99 said:

Honestly, as far as trying to "educate" your new business partner regarding your feelings, it may be worth a try but don't expect the desired results. I've learned to just go with the flow around people and sort of just "consider the source" and realize they'll never react the way I want/need/expect. I do a lot of "grinning and bearing" around the public.

In a perfect world, people would know just what to say and have just the right amount of empathy for us, but that's not the world we live in, unfortunately.

Mitch, I agree with you on this, but would comment that the forum is for the loss of Spouse, Partner, or Significant Other. I know quite a number of couples who have not married but are as close as many who are not married. I had a great aunt who lived with another woman -Helen- for forty years - it was a third set of grandparents to me, but in those days no one even talked about gay relationships, let alone let them become spouses. I like the feeling of inclusion that this forum seems to be arranged for - it seems to be for people who are staggering under really significant loss without getting into nitty gritty details about whether you were sexually involved, and if so married, and if so soul mates. I'm not sure that anyone could say that my great aunt's parter of forty years suffered less than a given married person when my great aunt died. Helen had diabetes, was legally blind, could barely walk, and had a pile of other medical problems. Not only that, my family (primarily my mother) forced Helen out of the house within two weeks because the house had been exclusively owned by my great aunt, and then by my mother and her sister. It has been three decades and I still cringe at what happened to Helen because it was not only excruciating in her loss but by the cruel treatment she received afterwards. If that happened today, should she be excluded from this forum because they never married - were not spouses or even blood relatives?

[mittam99]

Laura, I am friends with many of our members who were in non-married unions like Ana and totally understand the concept of this forum. Many of us refer to this forum as the "Spouse" forum as a shortened version of Loss of Spouse, Partner or Significant Other. It's a simple shortening of the title.

It certainly is not meant as a slight as I believe that soul mates are soul mates whether they sign paperwork or not. Whether they are black, white, green Gay, Lesbian, Native American, Asian, disabled.... on and on. Married or not. Love is love. And I think I've shown that belief in the time I've been here.

If my clerical shortening of the long forum name was bothersome, I apologize to you.