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Near Death Experiences And Grief


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I understand that Yes, God is a jealous God, yet He is patient and kind with us.  I loved my wife so much and God convicted me years ago,that I needed to love God put Him first. So then I prayed and asked God how does he want me to do that.  Gradually I started to make some changes to do that.  I still loved my wife yet the expression of loving my wife is an example of gratefulness and thankfulness that God brought us together and keeps us together.  God's discipline is not to punish us but to direct us to be more Christ like.  God does the changing, convicting and the encouraging. I have no answer as to why God calls our spouses and love ones home when he does but I trust God knows what is best for our spouses and us in this journey of life. Have a blessed Thanksgiving.  Shalom

 

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Yes God wants us to put Him first, and if He is the head of us, it's like a triangle of relationships, him at the top an as we both strive towards Him, we are brought closer together.

 

 

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Everyone have a blessed Thanksgiving ,    I am grateful I had my husband as long as I did he almost died once before in 2009.I am thankful for the wonderful children he gave me, I am thankful also for my loving mother and mother in law.I will try to be brave this is the first Thanksgiving without my husband and I miss him always.

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Cami,

You and all the others suffering loss of spouse are in my thoughts and prayers today.  May they live on in our memories, in our hearts.  We were blessed to have them each day they were here.

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  • 1 month later...

So is it like, I loved my mom more than god and that's why he took her with him? But aren't mothers considered as high as god?

I was all dependent on her, I seriously loved her more than anything in the world. So was it because of my love that she had to leave?

I also heard her voice, three times..I was preparing tea in the morning and I heard her voice.. I didn't understood what she said but it was clearly her voice. Then somedays later I was getting ready in my room and I heard her calling me from the hall.. I just went there to check and nothing was there. Once I heard her voice from inside the house when I rang the doorbell. I even had dreams about her.

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My dear, I don't believe for a moment that your mom died because you love her so much, and I hope you will not torture yourself with such a horrible thought. If that were the case, we'd all be guilty of loving our departed ones too much. We just don't have that kind of power over who lives and who dies. And I can assure you that hearing your mom's voice is not at all unusual either. See, for example, "Am I Going Mad? Mystical Experiences in Grief.

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Oh Honey, God doesn't work like that, I'm sorry you've been feeling like that.  Your mom was probably the most important earthly person you could have, of course you loved her so much!  God personally chose an esteemed woman to be Jesus' mother, do you think He chose any less for you? :)

 

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Kayc, Yes she is.. She is the most precious person in my life... She is the best and I'm really thankfully to god for choosing her as my mother but what I meant to say is that I read the above post.. So I'm asking is it because I didn't love god as much as I loved my mom, the reason behind her death?
Does god wanted me to love him more then her?
Or does he wanted me to be independent?

I read that article Marty, thank you.. I could relate to it. Its just that I cannot find a reason for what has happened, I'm constantly searching for a reason.

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No, that's not why she died.  Death just happens.  Bad things happen.  Good things happen.  No rhyme or reason.  People who eat bacon and smoke can live to be 100.  People who eat organic can die at 40.  It's not always about reason, sometimes it's just rather random.  Sometimes we want answers when there aren't any.

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My dear angel, this is why I caution our members about bringing their own individual religious or faith-based beliefs into the discussions we have here. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, but we must recognize that not everyone shares those same beliefs. And when we are struggling with a significant loss it is absolutely normal (and necessary!) for us to ask the sort of questions you are asking now. The thing is, no one can answer those questions for you. This is part of the grief process: coming to your own understanding of what has happened and figuring out what it means for you as an individual.

I'm going to recommend yet another article that I hope you will read: Why? Why Me? Searching for Answers in Grief

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Thanks for your post, Marty.  I don't believe in God.  But I want to believe in something, just not sure what it is.  This is truly a time when one can be overwhelmed wanting a truth they may never find and certainly won't about what happens when we die.  I actually envy people that have a strong faith as it offers them comfort.  Kinda being adrift and now starting to look into many philosophies often gives me a headache!   I respect what anyone believes for themselves.  Fortunately this is a place safe to say and feel these things without judgement.  People that feel the same can reach out to each other.  Religious or questioners, we are all valid in our feelings.

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I have to have faith.  In what? I have found it, I have lost it, I am talking to the GPS and I talk to Jesus and it turns into talking to Billy.  I have seen Billy three times, but the other night after my granddaughter left and she was in Louisiana, I drifted off to sleep and she was sitting in her chair for a moment in time.  Did I imagine Billy was there also.  Still does not explain the finding of the wedding ring nugget.  I want magic, imagination, I want my mojo back.  Reality is painful. If faith is the answer, I will find it. You do what helps you.  My son's religion is something called Astrasu, or someting like that.  Whatever you believe in or don't believe in, you have to do what is best for you. 

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As this journey continues it is becoming more and more interesting. I have stated many times that  study the Bible, attend Church, and explore other religions. This has only been going on since my wife passed away......I do have a lot of answers and I have a lot more questions . I compared the Commandments of Christians and Muslims........almost identical.......this fact alone motivates my studies,,  I do feel better, but I have a long way to go....

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Mom's angel, Right now you're looking for answers and people's cliches are not likely going to fit.  What was posted above was in a different discussion for a different reason, so I don't want it taken out of context. In time you will be able to look deep inside yourself and listen to that peaceful voice within and know what is true for you, and it will not cause you upset but serenity.  Until then try not to jump to any conclusions that can bring you distress.  You've been through so much already, you deserve some respite and peace.  (((hugs)))

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Marty,thank you, I read that article.. It came out as the questioning part was more easy to understand rather then the explanation given. I cannot seem to trust the journey that takes sudden turns leaving me numb. I think I need to give myself time as kayc said.. Maybe than I'll be able to understand it( I hope so).

Kayc, I often read posts in this forum but don't comment as I know it's different but I read this post and I cannot seem to avoid the questions that came in my mind, that's why I asked. I get what you meant to say, I should give myself time to understand all this.

A part of me thinks exactly like this:

"even if God himself came down and told me exactly why Jim had to die ...... the reason would not be good enough for me. Ever"

And the other part wants to know the reason behind my mom's death.

I have asked the same questions to many people and all they say is "it was God's will, we cannot do anything and you'll have to be strong"  

As a result I have stopped asking such things.. 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, kevin said:

 I compared the Commandments of Christians and Muslims........almost identical.......this fact alone motivates my studies,,  I do feel better, but I have a long way to go....

Kevin -

That statement reminded me of a book I discovered in our bookcase three weeks after Deedo died.  She must have bought it as I had not seen it before but it really sums up some of the ideas we both shared.  It is called Oneness: Great Principles Shared By All Religions by Jeffery Moses.  Deedo and I did not believe much in organized religion but instead believed there were "universal truths" that could be found in all religions and that these were truly the words of God.  The book examines beliefs that can be found in all religions and where in their doctrines they can be found.  Just thought this might be something that you could use in your studies.

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Mom's Angel: I don't know if this will help you, or me, or anyone.  I had 18 years, from birth to marriage of intense fire and brimstone Baptist indoctrination.  Mama would make me say the child's prayer each night of "if I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take."  I have spent an untold number of years being frightened of this well meaning prayer.  Yes, at my age I am afraid to be alone.  Billy took care of my nightmares for 54 years.  My mom has progressive dementia, which I do not believe is Alzheimers.  She is held together with nicotine.  She has smoked since she was a young child, her and an older brother picking up "shorts" from the churchyard during their mother's long illness.  She is on her way to 95 years old.  Even now, my Baptist upbringing questions my guilt for resenting taking care of her while my husband went so fast and because of mismanagement of her savings and the money she gets from retirement, she cannot be put in a nursing care facility.  And still, the 10 Commandments haunt me.  Honor thy father and mother.  So, did I have Billy taken away because I broke that commandment? Did I get female cancer because of vows I broke in my marriage.  These are certifiable crazy things that are analogies of people indocrinated in Scientology and other cults  They say God is love, but I was also taught to fear him.  Daddy used to whip me and say I might not love him, but I was going to respect him.  Is fear respect?  But we are to love, fear, and respect God.  Somehow these are contradictions.  I used to go out the doors of the church, looking up at the sky, and thinking the world was coming to an end.  There has to be a happy medium.  There has to be faith without fear or guilt.  So, Marty is right, our religious beliefs and/or disbeliefs should not be put on anyone else.  Mine now are as varied as a Louisiana Creole dish.  I no longer believe that Baptist's and republican's will be the only ones in heaven.  One time I got up from the middle of a big preaching service, walked out and slammed the church doors because they were preaching against Jews and Mormons.  The preacher of this church was run off because he supposedly was not tithing. He had told me that God was not a punishing God.  We have been brainwashed to believe so much.  Now I believe we need to find our own journey in our own faith.  You find what gives you peace of mind.  Personally, I am tired of nearly 3/4ths a century of guilt.  Billy used to say "Marg, you blame yourself for everything."  I'm tired of it.  (And I did have 15 years of psychiatric care.)   The doc yesterday said she would give me a psych referral.  For what?  I cannot take their new medicines, and my diagnosis is chronic depression complicated by grief.   We just all need to find peace in the best way we can without guilt.

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Mom's angel, People say stupid things in their effort to "make you feel better", which usually has the opposite result.  And often it's people that haven't a clue, have not been through it or not the way you are.

Cliches are worse than meaningless, we have to let them go the moment someone speaks them.  It's okay to say, "I disagree but I appreciate your effort."  It's hard to stop some people from spouting stuff you don't want to hear, over and over again.  I've had to get very blunt with some of them to get their attention, being the sort of person who can't seem to just "let it go" continually.  Grief is enough effort without all these battles.

While you're still searching for a reason he died, I have concluded that it's rather random and there isn't some grand scheme or reason for it...others think differently, but I absolutely can't believe it's "God's will" for everything that happens...to me, that would greatly diminish my God in my eyes as horrific things happen to good people, including babies, and I can't ascribe to that type of religion or philosophy.  People choose what they want to believe, but that just doesn't make sense to me.

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6 minutes ago, kayc said:

While you're still searching for a reason he died, I have concluded that it's rather random and there isn't some grand scheme or reason for it...others think differently, but I absolutely can't believe it's "God's will" for everything that happens...to me, that would greatly diminish my God in my eyes as horrific things happen to good people, including babies, and I can't ascribe to that type of religion or philosophy.  People choose what they want to believe, but that just doesn't make sense to me.

My thoughts exactly.  There are those who believe God dictates what happens on Earth.  I cannot accept this.  People are born and people die and when and how they die is not directed by God.  

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Margaret,

Thank God you have evolved to think for yourself, and to realize that common sense must prevail!  Not everything taught inside church walls is accurate, sometimes things are taken out of context or to an extreme they weren't meant to be.  I like thinking of God as a God of balance and order, one with common sense and compassion.  
Yes it says honor your mother and father, yet by the same token, some of our parents were not deserving and were fortunate to get the loving devotion we did give.  My mom was mentally ill and abusive all my life and my dad was an alcoholic that never protected me (from her).  Oregon law says we are responsible for the care of our parents unless they neglected or abused us.  Even the State of Oregon has common sense to throw in qualifiers!  And of course that is if we can afford to. My mom threw 1/2 her money away on t.v. and radio ministers yet left us girls not a dime.  WE were there for her, these t.v./radio evangelists were not!  It took her entire estate to provide for her care the last two years of her dementia.  When she was living on her own it was her daughters having to come up with money for her heat ($450 ever three weeks), she refused to move to a smaller more energy efficient place, we bought her clothes, everything she needed!  Maybe that's enabling, but it is hard to see your mom suffer because she lacks the common sense or mental capacity to handle her finances and is too stubborn to let us do so.

If your mom had good care somewhere, that's what matters.  It took us a year to take my mom to court so my brother could be appointed conservator and we could collectively do what was best for her.  She hated us for it for a while but the nice thing about dementia is, they forget. :)

Also, "being able to provide" for your parents is not just financial, we must also consider what else is on our plate.  Had you taken your mom in while caring for your husband, you'd have been stretched so thin as to not be able to meet the needs of either of them.  I, personally, think you've made sound decisions.

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In response to what Brad said, I'd like to clarify what I've come to believe after a lifetime of Christianity, sermons, reading books, praying, and personal experience.  I know Marty doesn't like us getting into religion, but I'm not telling any of you how to believe, only what I have concluded, and that is this:

In the Bible it talks about man's fall and how that changed things, instead of God being in charge, Satan is for a time, which God will one day take back.  Satan has some limitations, however.  I don't understand why he doesn't have a whole lot MORE limitations than he does, but I do know we have free reign, the power to think and decide for ourselves, and that this free reign cost God dearly.  He believes in free reign so much that He made a way for us to keep it and still be redeemed (Jesus' death in our place).  That said, if HE believes that free will is so important for us to have, how can WE think that HE decides everything for us?  It is one of our most prized possessions!  In that "free will" we sometimes make good decisions and sometimes make bad decisions, we sometimes suffer natural consequences, such as, if we spend our money foolishly we might not have enough to eat at the end of the month.  Those natural consequences are not punitive, but rather life lessons to help us learn and grow, and they're more the result of OUR hand than God's.  

I do believe in an interactive God that talks to us, gives us wisdom when we ask for it, cares about us, and walks through the valley with us.  I do NOT think He is responsible for the very moment George died.  You see, our genetic makeup is not our choosing, but what we do with it is, how we eat, exercise, what we do with stress, all of this affects the hand of cards we're dealt.  We can make it better or worse.  I also know it's not fairly meted out.  I had a friend who was about 39 who ate organic food she grew, lived a peaceable life with her animals, friends, and garden, yet she got cancer and died.  Lesson #2:  Life is not fair!  Any of us grieving have learned that.  I quit looking for answers and instead learned to focus on what can I do with it now?  I can choose to learn and grow and appreciate what still is and try my best to stay in the moment (something that takes continual effort for me).  

Part of grieving is questioning.  Part of grieving is feeling guilt when we don't deserve it.  Part of grieving is feeling anger and yes maybe even blaming God whether He had a hand in it or not.  I think the problem comes in when we know He is powerful enough to prevent or change something yet we see Him as having chose not to.  And of course that makes us angry!  After all, we would have done ANYTHING in our power to have changed it but didn't get to!  But I also realize I don't know everything He does and I'm trying to understand with my pea sized brain what He with his vast one could never explain to me in a way that I could understand.  That helps me accept it a little better by realizing that someday I will know, and by that time I'll be rejoined with George and this will all be a moot point.  We'll be together again forever and that's all that matters.

To those of you who don't ascribe to these beliefs, that's okay, just skip this post, I'm just trying to explain as I see it in the hopes it will help Mom's Angel understand in the way it's helped me.

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Margaret, your timing is pretty good, having a similar discussion with a neighbour the other day in regards to "looking after our Parents".......She was torn on what to do, my advice was look at what is on your plate now, what will slide in terms of work load, and what is best for your Mother.......This Guilt feeling and religion came back, I said your not Married to your parents, there is no "till death do you Part" .....After much soul searching, input from other family members, the decision was made for home care and shared visitations........My direction to my kids, put me in the Home, I will choose the Home geographicaly  friendly. ........this is a tough subject

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In some of the notes Billy left, was his last grocery list for health foods.  Made a few days before his illness was discovered. He quit smoking probably 30-35 years ago.  Immediately took up "smokeless tobacco."  One of the first articles that a doctor's research was given to me to type and submit to medical journals was the study of smokeless tobacco on kidney cancer.  We bought vitamins and supplements on-line for his good health.  We bought snuff to poison him.

Okay, I want a will made out to where I am put away somewhere.  I make enough my kids won't be out a cent.  Who knows I might find a younger man that will outlive me.  And pigs will really fly, not on commercials.  The shape my mind is in right now, I need to Google attorneys.  See, I am so up to date, I bypass the yellow pages.

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