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MartyT

Whose Forum Is This, Anyway?

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22 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

 In the real world one has to be careful as people get freaked out by the depths of this.

Gwen, that is so very true!!!  I made the mistake of confiding to a few family members/friends that I had seriously considered suicide, in the early days, to the extent of researching methods that would appear to be an accident so that my kids would get the life insurance.....whoa. BIG mistake!  Although I assured them that I was past those dark emotions.....that it was not unheard of to HAVE this feeling....some still worry that I will do myself in, and think I have a mental issue, and should be "watched" !!!  They do NOT "get it"......this horrible business of grief......what they consider "abnormal" is very much normal....as I've learned here!

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Oh Kat, I'm so sorry. Unfortunately suicide is a word that frightens people, especially when they know nothing about the normal grief process. This is why I think it's so important to "educate" the public (including family and friends) about what is normal in grief. If ever you need to do so, please feel free to copy and print out an article or two to share with these few family members/friends (such as Thoughts of Suicide in Grief) ~ and let the article do the talking on your behalf. This can be a simple, indirect way of reassuring others that your reactions are normal, you're not a danger to yourself, and you're not crazy. All you have to say is something like this: "I know you're worried about me after what I shared with you. Here. Please read this. It helps to explain what I was trying to tell you." 

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That is the beauty of this forum. We can be real and genuine.  If none of us shared the darker side of grief then we would all think of ourselves as "crazy" because no one else shared it.  Thank you,Marty for all you do for all of us.

I tried to get online and then again this morning and the message said the board was down for some upgrade/maintenance.  I am glad it has returned.  - Shalom

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Yes, George, the board was offline for several hours ~ but for the click of a button, longer than it needed to be, as it turned out ~ but all is well now. I assure you that we haven't gone anywhere, and I'm glad too that we're all still here! 

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2 hours ago, iPraiseHim said:

 Thank you,Marty for all you do for all of us.

:wub:

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Yeah Marty, you have ruined me for a counselor. I don't think I can find any as good as you.  But, I do have a counselor looking for me a psychiatrist that I won't feel I am smarter than.  (It's gonna be a hard hunt for her.)  Wonder if that is what my sister meant by me needing humility.  

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Trust me, Marg, there are lots of excellent grief counselors out there. Not as rare as you might think. And as savvy as you are, you already know what you're looking for, and I've no doubt that if you keep looking, you will find the right one for you. The important thing is to keep on looking until you find one.

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She (counselor) will call me tomorrow.  She wants to talk to their psychiatrist today, she knows me, and will take his recommendations.  I will give him my first try.  He might fire me on sight.  (No, I will actually be nice and listen to him/her, I will be on my best behavior) because I do need help.  My sister cannot understand me..  I told her I would only go to MD if I start running a fever and she knows I have an "I don't care if I live or not" feeling.  So, I have to work on that, I am sure.  

I did make sure all my records were sent to the family practice service I have used here once.  They added another hypertension med for the daytime.

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On 9/20/2016 at 4:08 PM, MartyT said:

Oh Kat, I'm so sorry. Unfortunately suicide is a word that frightens people, especially when they know nothing about the normal grief process. This is why I think it's so important to "educate" the public (including family and friends) about what is normal in grief. If ever you need to do so, please feel free to copy and print out an article or two to share with these few family members/friends (such as Thoughts of Suicide in Grief) ~ and let the article do the talking on your behalf. This can be a simple, indirect way of reassuring others that your reactions are normal, you're not a danger to yourself, and you're not crazy. All you have to say is something like this: "I know you're worried about me after what I shared with you. Here. Please read this. It helps to explain what I was trying to tell you." 

Thank you, Marty.......I have done just that!  Hopefully, they will worry less about me!!!

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23 hours ago, KATPILOT said:

:wub:

AMEN to that!!!!  I'd probably be suicidal, or at least slightly deranged, if it were not for this forum!  Blessings abundant for Marty!!!!

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I bet if they took a poll of people grieving, MOST would say they've experienced suicidal thoughts, particularly in the beginning, if not way beyond.

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Well you know I had a plan ready and if my religion was not so screwed up right now I might have carried it out in the first week, but I found this group after three days and Billy said the one left must stay, he also said I am him and he is me, so maybe the he in me wanted to live.  Waiting for psych appointment.  Not suicidal but still not happy about living, yet will not do anything about it, but sad to say, I'm not having a real good time about right now.  Don't think anyone is.  This too shall pass.  Breathe.

I think even if your faith is mixed up right now, or if you have no faith at all, I don't think any of us would want to do anything that in this great beyond that we know nothing about, that we might mess up possibly being with our mates again on whatever realm that will be.  Yep, shopping for that shrink. 

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3 hours ago, kayc said:

I bet if they took a poll of people grieving, MOST would say they've experienced suicidal thoughts, particularly in the beginning, if not way beyond.

That I something I'm struggling with now at almost 2 years.  There's no place I can say that but here, my doc and my counselor.  I think it is because I see the enormity of this loss and the foreverness of it.  The longer I am parted from him, the less interest I have looking ahead.  I've watched so much change around me since he left.  I look at how my whole day has changed from waking to sleep and barely recognize it beyond when the dogs need some thing as they are so routine oriented.  When he was here, changes happened, but they didn't feel as much a loss.  Waking up day after day knowing we are over is hitting hard now.  Part is the days are too routine.  There is little varience because putting 2 people together keeps the days interesting.  Now I struggle to fill the hours or get bored because there is no one to share them with.  I'm just babbling here.  All I know is I, at this point I don't want to live like this, even tho I have a beautiful prison.....our home that was so perfect for us.  

I lost it after being in a store as they were playing the song Can't Get Enough of Your Love.  I'm usually deaf to that stuff.  Not right now.

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Gwen, that's not babbling, you are pouring out your innermost feelings in a very real way...and that's what this place is for.  Right now you are living without hope and that is hard.  The thing I've kept in mind at my lowest points is, to commit suicide would be to remove all possibility of hope.  So I hung in there.  And of course, I have my kids, my sisters, my pets to live for.  At least my animals give me some sense of purpose, if I don't stick around and take care of them, who will?  Arlie isn't the easiest dog to adopt, being huge and considered elderly now and with his special needs (me having to cook for him)...and Kitty is 20, who would adopt a cat that old?  So even if I didn't have my faith, I would still have to stick around.  

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I don't have any kids to think of.  I have one friend and a cousin who would miss me, but hey are not local.  I have S acquaintance who would take the dogs.  So the conundrum is a bit more complicated.  

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But your dogs would not feel the same with the acquaintance as they do you, they still need you.  And my having kids is a thing of the past pretty much, I rarely see them.  They have their own lives.  It's my pets I live for.  But what I meant is my sisters and kids would undoubtedly grieve if I died...even though it wouldn't affect their everyday lives like it would my dog and cat.

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I appreciate your thoughts, Kay, but I didn't post it for reasons to not think this.  I can get that out in the world as it is not acceptable thinking.  I just want to be able to say I am finding it very hard to find a reason to continue without Steve.  I don't know why this hit me now, but it has and I have to deal with it.  It's scary to feel never having felt it before.

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4 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

I didn't post it for reasons to not think this.  I can get that out in the world as it is not acceptable thinking.

I'm sorry my response didn't resonate with you.  I care and am sorry you're struggling.  (((hugs)))

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Gwen, I am not going to do anything to hurt myself.  The doc's have already told me if something else happened to my "innards" they could not fix it.  Now, they can perform a colostomy, I know that, but for anything GYN they cannot fix it.  Thankfully, I don't use my "GYN" anymore so there is nothing to fix.  But, my sister wants me to have regular checkups.  I do admit, for a long time I did not eat but I would drink the Boost and Ensure, enough to keep calories up.  Lately though (and my inner psychiatrist is telling me this Marty), I am eating way past being full.  Sometimes to the point of throwing up.  I know it is trying to fill some empty space and I have gained weight.  After the cancer I watched my weight often because losing weight without trying meant trouble.  Now I am eating myself to death, so maybe that is a form of self destruction.  Will talk to my shrink, when I get one.

What I am saying, I guess, is the will to live is not a strong survival instinct right now, and I think that is what you are feeling.  Reminds me of that old song "Old Man River" again.  "Tired of living but skeered of dying."  I don't even know if that was the words and not going to look it up.  I think it is (oh, there is that stupid word "normal") for us to lose our will to fight to live when we have lost the best half of us.  But you know what?  Butch was faced with dying and he fought to live.  So maybe even if we don't care if we live or not, if we are faced with it, our natural instinct will be to live.  I know your not happy.  And this is not for everyone, maybe it is just for bawdy old women like me, but that Netflix show "Grace and Frankie" made me laugh so much.  It was so nice to laugh.  It might not be for you, but it sure was for me.  Guess I am a nasty ole gal.    

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On May 1, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Marg M said:

 

Gwen, Marg

i lived thru a previous husband taking his own life.  You would never want to put anyone thru that.  It was really terrible.  I went to a support group (not just suicide) and was so upset when people talked about how hard their spouses fought to stay alive, and mine threw his away.  It took me a long time to understand that he was not running from me, but from his pain.  If there is a group in your area that supports suicide prevention, check it out.  I also felt that life seemed pointless and would not care if it were over. I think most of us did at some point.  I can not find much positive anymore, but hope to someday.

Gin

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 Dear ones, I know at times the pain of loss is all but unbearable for each of you, and I know how hard it is to hold onto the hope that it will not always be this way. You're feeling anything but hopeful now, but we are here with you, holding onto that hope for you, and we will keep holding it for each of you until you are able to pick it up and hold it for yourself. 

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I have too many people that I would hurt, my granddaughter mainly, and my son, my sister and my friends.  I think sometimes we all feel just like sugarless vanilla ice cream.  Poor analogy I know.  There are those on here who have suffered the pain of a suicide, and like I said, as painful as it was for Butch, he fought to live.  I know each of us would do the same thing.  Look at his beautiful granddaughter he gets to love.  I want to see my granddaughter find her niche in life and find her special person to share life with.  The school she will be attending was where I first met Billy.  I can wish many years of happiness for her too.

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 I feel - I'm not sure that it is hopeless - it's more like meaninglessness. I think it's an existential crisis -or an existential swamp. I used to feel like school psychology was meaningful work - that by these evaluations I could help at-risk kids to get help in school so that they did not end up in prison. I still work just as hard, but I'm not sure I can help anyone to avoid a life of incarceration or if I really care about it. Other people do the same work - does it make a difference that it is specifically me? Well there is an extreme shortage of school psychologists - there is always a chance I might be helping someone that wouldn't be helped otherwise. But maybe not. At this point I have a stellar resume between social work and school psych; working in rural communities, it gets employers' attention. But does it matter? Is my art or music or anything else I do essential to the world in any way? I used to run around saying that I believed that everyone's ultimate job description was to make whatever little corner of the world they find themselves in better - just because they were there, sharing whatever gifts they had. I still think that's true, but I'm not jumping up and down about it now.

I have had previous times when I wondered if there was any meaning in my life. But no matter what was going on, I was relentlessly driven by my art, my curiosity, and sheer energy. But now I don't feel driven. Maybe it's the car accident and the endless fatigue in between the head injury and grief. Maybe I'm a different person now - I have no idea. It seems very likely that I will never have another love and that I will have a life - long or short - alone. It's a depressing thought.

It was very different when my dad was alive. It made such a difference to have someone who was always interested and supportive. He was always always happy to see me and always happy to hear from me. To me, that was like a drug. And for him, there was never any doubt that I was utterly irreplaceable. No one else could have or would have done what I did for him. No one doubted that he lived as long and as well as he did because of me. What can follow that? Maybe nothing will ever be as good. But the truth is that I really don't know. 

I don't think eating Lucky Charms for breakfast is doing any favors for my health but it does get me out of bed in the morning. Ditto for macaroni and cheese, but at least now I am making it from scratch and eating small amounts of it with tons of steamed veggies. I am trying to take reasonable care of myself because I don't know what's around the corner and I want to be in reasonable shape for it just in case it's something good. Just in case.

Meanwhile, I guess I'll live for Lena. Here she is, on my dad's lap right before I adopted her and took her home. Every night when Lena and I left my dad's house to go home, he would stroke her head and tell her, "Take care of Laura" 

 

DSCN2342.JPG

 

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Thanks, Kay.  Sometimes we just need to say the dark thoughts.  

Marty, thank you too.

Gin, I just have never seen the other side of that taboo door.  Always thought it was an selfish act.  Now I understand how someone can get so lost. 

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9 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

  I just want to be able to say I am finding it very hard to find a reason to continue without Steve.  

Gwen I think the hardest thing for me to overcome was that very thing. Life lost all purpose. Perhaps I felt that way because Kathy and I were so closely involved with each others lives. We shared the same goals and with her death those goals lost all meaning. I asked myself that same question. What's to live for?  I still ask myself that same question once in a while when I get beat up at work. I used to think it was so we could afford to have a great life later and that helped me go back and fight some more. Yes the hardest hurdle for me was to find reason to keep going. It got better. It gets better.

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