Whose Forum Is This, Anyway?

[kayc]

13 hours ago, Marg M said:

I know it is trying to fill some empty space and I have gained weight.

I could raise my hand to this one!  It's something I need to work harder on.  I eat super healthy but much of what I lost last year found me this year.   I need to get at least some of it off, I'd have more energy and my fat pants wouldn't be too tight.

9 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

 Sometimes we just need to say the dark thoughts.

Yep!  I understand.

13 hours ago, Gin said:

was so upset when people talked about how hard their spouses fought to stay alive, and mine threw his away.  It took me a long time to understand that he was not running from me, but from his pain.  

You have been through a lot, dear Gin, but that was a really important realization and I'm glad you came to it.

12 hours ago, MartyT said:

the hope that it will not always be this way.

It is so true!  This is the single biggest message I'd want to get across to someone newer in grief!  We will always grieve, always miss them, but it does NOT always stay in this intensity, in this level of pain.  Yes some of you have felt it got worse before getting better (and some haven't gotten to the better part yet)...it's not so much that anything improves but that we do adjust, we do learn to do our life without...and it does continue.  It is up to us to find a way to make our lives such that we can live it.
 

 

11 hours ago, Clematis said:

I'm not sure that it is hopeless - it's more like meaninglessness.

You are so right!  And that's why it's so important for us to work on, and YES it takes tremendous time, energy, effort, to make our lives one of purpose again and LOOK for meaning.  I can't tell you how long it takes, it's different for everyone, and part of it depends on how much effort we put into it, for me it's been so gradual as to seem imperceptible, but little by little you find some meaning in life again.  Not like before, but meaning, nonetheless.

9 hours ago, KATPILOT said:

it was so we could afford to have a great life later and that helped me go back and fight some more.

Exactly!

[iPraiseHim]

 

Christian viewpoint shared here:

Suggest new grievers to not read this post right now...

17 hours ago, KATPILOT said:

Gwen I think the hardest thing for me to overcome was that very thing. Life lost all purpose. Perhaps I felt that way because Kathy and I were so closely involved with each others lives. We shared the same goals and with her death those goals lost all meaning. I asked myself that same question. What's to live for?  I still ask myself that same question once in a while when I get beat up at work. I used to think it was so we could afford to have a great life later and that helped me go back and fight some more. Yes the hardest hurdle for me was to find reason to keep going. It got better. It gets better.

I believe many of us go through this level of grief and pain whether we admit to ourselves or even others.  We don't want to live without our beloved and at times it is inviting to think we can be with them.  It is so hard to live without them.  The grief is so intense and so painful that it took my breath away.  I didn't want to live and I didn't want to die.  What a paradox. 

I have a different perspective on suicide now and i know how much pain a person is in to have such thoughts.  Years ago, I realized I just did not want to live with that level of emotional pain and emptiness.  I wanted out of the pain. Therapy and making some helped me to understand that I didn't want to die.  I just didn't want to live with such pain.  Suicide is PERMANENT solution to a TEMPORARY problem.

Now I realize, that as painful as grief is that there is a purpose in it.  It is not to punish us or drive us crazy but rather draw us to our Maker.  God is Sovereign (rules) over all, even my wife's death.  I don't like it, but I trust God knows what is best for my Rose Anne and myself.  I could not have accepted or realized that in the Initial SHOCK and AWE of her death.  It has taking much grief work, sharing, crying, expressing, to come to accept this. 

I cannot tell you what that purpose is for you.  I am just learning what it is for me.  I still hate being alone (single).  I hated it before. But I know that i was and am deeply loved by Rose Anne.  She showed me in countless ways during our almost 26 years together.  Life together was far from perfect and there are many life lessons that I have learned. We were the best of friends/lovers/ soulmates. Now I am learning how to live each day without my beloved. I still have up and down days.  Every one of us has a purpose and we are loved. - Shalom

 

 

 

[MartyT]

Bear in mind, dear ones, that those who work in suicide prevention and suicide grief support discourage using this statement, since "from the point of view of someone who is earnestly considering killing himself or herself, the pain from which suicide would provide escape is not temporary." See, for example, The Case Against Saying 'Suicide Is A Permanent Solution to a Temporary Problem.'

As September is Suicide Awareness Month, Barb Hildebrand, who maintains “Suicide Shatters” on Facebook, recently posted an item there about “Please Stop Saying …” which also generated dozens of comments and replies.

[iPraiseHim]

20 minutes ago, MartyT said:

Bear in mind, dear ones, that those who work in suicide prevention and suicide grief support discourage using this statement, since "from the point of view of someone who is earnestly considering killing himself or herself, the pain from which suicide would provide escape is not temporary." See, for example, The Case Against Saying 'Suicide Is A Permanent Solution to a Temporary Problem.'

 

I read the article but I still disagreed with the premise.  I am not a therapist.  In my opinion, the article sounds like double-speak political correctness.  When we can not speak the truth then all we have is platitudes and pablum.  I speak from my own experience and helping others deal with this issue. 

I will read the article again  a couple more times and hopefully in a different mind frame.  As of know, I still respectfully disagree.  - Shalom

[MartyT]

That certainly is your choice, George, and knowing you as I do, I've no doubt that you would use this statement with the very best of intentions. Still, because whatever we post here will reach a wider audience, I think it's important for our readers to know that others ~ notably those who work professionally in suicide prevention and suicide grief support ~ do not endorse and discourage its continued use.  ♥

[Margm]

I did not read the article.  All I can go on is my own life.

I have been close to suicide twice but have lived a long life between those times.  I don't feel qualified though to discuss this.  This forum did save my life.  Of that I am sure and thankful for.  My life right now is tumultuous and I should not even talk till I talk to a counselor/shrink. 

"I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep."

[Gin]

Marg,

I am glad that you found a purpose to live for your daughter, granddaughter and sister.  I am still looking for my purpose.  It seems that my kids think I am doing just fine, even though I tell them otherwise.   Today is a rough day, and I am not sure why.  I guess because Al is not here.

[Margm]

45 minutes ago, Gin said:

It seems that my kids think I am doing just fine, even though I tell them otherwise.  

Gin, our kids hear what they want to here.  Mama has always been "just fine" and she comes through everything "just fine."  They don't look at the bottom of our feet at the  burn scars, or into our eyes at the constant sorrow.  

Yesterday in my "Grief One Day at a Time" was written this:  "Keep on going, and the chances are that you will stumble on something, perhaps when you are least expecting it. I never heard of anyone ever stumbling on something sitting down."  Charles Kettering

I have become "friends" with a lot of authors with their quotes.  I read up on them and think "I didn't know that."  Like C.S. Lewis, who we quote often.  His death was overshadowed by the killing of our President Kennedy.  It came to me, this man lived in my lifetime.  

I wish we all had someone.  I wish we had just enough attention but not too much attention.  Billy has not been gone a year and I find myself in the same position my mother was in.  The thing was, my mother, I believe, planned out the way she wanted it to go.  I moved into an apartment because I hate houses, and Mama very much intended to die in her house.  I think she did everything intentional so that my sister owed it to take care of her.  She always told me they did more for my sister because she did not have anyone to take care of her like I did.  But, I never was jealous and did not see the land mines that woman was planting.  She bought and paid for her final care and died in her house.  Mama was right, there is a fine line between genius and insanity.  

I didn't plant land mines, but I allowed them to be planted.  Now I have to gingerly dig them up and dispose of them.  I hope I live long enough.  See, there is always a purpose. 

[Gwenivere]

I read the article and agree with it totally.  Maybe that is because I have experienced different levels of thinking death was a way out.  Also, Steves death is not a temporary problem as were other times.  

Many have felt trapped and death was an answer.  I know of a couple of people that took that route.  It was my self righteous judgement of them that couldn't see the undescribable pain they must have been in.  

Its too easy to judge another's circumstances from our own.  We don't know them and what brings them to this point.  Many don't have family, friends or anyone/thing that makes 'life a gift' anymore.  And even if they do, we are not them.  When one feels so lost,  it's not a gift but a torture.  

If there is one lesson this horrendous grief has taught me it is compassion.  Opinions about politics, taxes, Brad and Angelina getting divorced are harmless.  Opinions and judgements about another persons innermost feelings is not something we can truly understand unless we know and listen to them.  Validate them.  Otherwise it is like saying yes, you are weak which perpetuates thier already compromised real feelings at the time.  

This is even more complex that trying to explain grief to those who have never experienced it.  We know the frustration that is.  How can we talk about someone else's state of mind so quickly and almost cold heartedly?  Because we don't feel that right now?  Because we were stronger and found ropes to cling to?  

Im sorry, but I just see too much judgement instead of compassion.  That saddens me, especially here.

[Margm]

I don't feel qualified to discuss this seriousness and could not stand it if anything I said might be taken as a reason to commit suicide to someone that already has that on their mind.  I am deleting most of my conversation because I did not read the article.  

[MartyT]

I hope that those who read the article I mentioned in my post above will see also the item posted by Barb Hildebrand, a portion of which I've quoted below.

5 hours ago, MartyT said:

As September is Suicide Awareness Month, Barb Hildebrand, who maintains “Suicide Shatters” on Facebook, recently posted an item there about “Please Stop Saying …” which also generated dozens of comments and replies.

In her Facebook post of September 5, 2016, Barb writes:

I keep seeing posts, blogs and posters with the expression "Suicide is a Permanent Solution to a Temporary Problem". I dislike this expression so much for many reasons and know many others find it offensive as well.

I myself used this very glib expression with my late husband Rob once after his first suicide attempt. He told me immediately that he found it dismissive and minimizing and after learning first hand what it's like to lose someone to suicide and how offensive and hurtful this saying can be, I resolved to strike it from my vocabulary for ever more.

Suicide is not a solution that should ever be presented that way. "Temporary Problem" in relation to suicidal thoughts and mental illness is extremely offensive and trivializes what many living with MI struggle with daily. I assure you, no one considering suicide sees their problems as temporary. To insinuate such is insulting.

[Margm]

I have put one like this on here before.  It still stands as true.  Like I have said (but it is evident without my saying), I am a strange person.  I enjoy being strange.  We are all different.  I enjoy living out of my boxes.  Family wants to help me make it look more like a "home."  I don't want it to look like a home.  It isn't  a home.  It is protection from the elements.  I have had my home on earth.  Faith tells me I will have a permanent home.  My faith is not my strongest part of me right now.  Until then, I love my "box house."  I don't know what tomorrow will bring.  Maybe nothing.  But, the talk of suicide disturbs me, maybe because I have visited the idea. I don't think I have ever lived for myself, there is always someone else I have to help live also.  Maybe that is why I am still here.  I won't ponder the why's, I will just walk down that path and where ever it leads, I will go.  I read a lot of quotes.  I meet a lot of different authors that I never studied before.  They are interesting.  What's more, those men and some of the women lived in my lifetime.  Maya Angelou had some of her worse real life nightmares a few miles from where I grew up, and still she rose above it.  I did not know people were treated like she was when I was growing up in that small papermill town. If lynchings happened, I never heard of it. She lived through many horrors that I can only imagine, because they were not part of my life.  And still she lived, and she lived alone most of the time because she was alone, except for the people she helped take care of..  But still, life and death are a choice, if you want to make it a choice.  And being alone, well, you were born that way and you will die that way.  I have found that quotes will not save my life, but sometimes they make me look at myself.

"Keep on going, and the chances are that you will stumble on something, perhaps when you are least expecting it. I never heard of anyone ever stumbling on something sitting down."  Charles Kettering

Now that one spoke to me, because I am sitting down.

[Clematis]

On 9/24/2016 at 9:29 AM, MartyT said:

Bear in mind, dear ones, that those who work in suicide prevention and suicide grief support discourage using this statement, since "from the point of view of someone who is earnestly considering killing himself or herself, the pain from which suicide would provide escape is not temporary." See, for example, The Case Against Saying 'Suicide Is A Permanent Solution to a Temporary Problem.'

As September is Suicide Awareness Month, Barb Hildebrand, who maintains “Suicide Shatters” on Facebook, recently posted an item there about “Please Stop Saying …” which also generated dozens of comments and replies.

 

I totally agree this is not something that should be said, and I am speaking from the perspective of having worked as a counselor with a high suicide risk population (prison), where I was involved with hundreds of assessments and interventions for suicide risk over the years. I was also trained to do trainings for the correctional staff. Based on what I have seen, this kind of statement would be appealing to someone who was seriously considering killing themselves - because that is exactly what they want - a permanent solution to a festering problem that seems to have no other solution. A permanent solution is what everyone wants for any problem.

I have had headaches every day for the four months since my car accident and I would like a permanent solution, but I believe that this won't last forever and the treatment I am involved with will permanently solve the problem. I can believe in the possibility of my headaches ending because I can see a progression in my improvement. But for people who have a problem that seems to have no solution, and things seems to be getting worse...well, desperate people do desperate things.

The most helpful thing I know about people who are in this situation or close to it is this. Statements of suicidal ideation or intent should always be taken seriously - every single time. Also, people who are contemplating suicide are almost always ambivalent. Granted, there are some people who are so intent upon killing themselves that they will try one thing ofter another until they are successful, and the attempts tend to be increasingly lethal. But the vast majority have mixed feelings, which is the reason there are so many failed attempts. People want a permanent solution but they have mixed feelings and have some amount of hope. Professionals work to examine what is in the mixed basket of thoughts and then help the person to see the positive more clearly and look at the negative seriously without minimizing it so that what is feared becomes less certain.

[Margm]

Other than starting a new post, I just want to make sure everyone is okay.  My granddaughter is on her way inland from SC because of Hurricane Matthew.  I have not done any deep studying of this storm, but we have not heard from Terri in awhile.  Marty, I think she lives in Florida also doesn't she?  Maybe one or two others.  If you read this, please check in ever so often so we know everyone is okay.  

I try not to watch too much news, but think I will go to the weather channel.  Maybe Hilary and Trump will not have bought their time on the weather channel.  Otherwise it is the same old, same old.  

Please let us hear that you all are safe.  I was in Arkansas when Katrina destroyed New Orleans.  I know we had a lot of new people coming into the hospital that I worked at in Arkansas.  I think they stayed permanently.  I have been lucky that none of the storms, floods or tornadoes have bothered me but lots of people have to be relocated because of them.  

[MartyT]

Thank you for your post, Marg, as it gives all of us an opportunity to address the possible effects of this pending storm.

As for me, I live in Sarasota, which is on the west coast of Florida, right next to the Gulf. Hurricane Matthew is expected to hit the other side of the state, both along the east coast of Florida as well as inland. That's the side that borders the Atlantic Ocean. While I don't know for sure, I don't think my area will be affected in any serious way, but it certainly is possible that the strong winds and heavy rain could cause power outages here later on today and tomorrow. If that is the case, I will be without Internet service until everything is back online. So I ask our members to check the weather reports and please bear with me should that be the case.

As Marg so kindly has suggested, I hope our other members who might be affected by this storm will let us hear from them, so we'll know that they are safe. Meanwhile, let us all pray that this massive storm loses most of its fury before it comes ashore.  

[Gwenivere]

Joyce is also in Florida and in the possible path.  I heard from her yesterday about possible evacuating.  Hoping all our friends in Florida and anywhere this monster storm hits stay safe.  

[Margm]

Anyone heard from Terri?

[iPraiseHim]

Marg M, I live 10 miles from the Atlantic ocean near Virginia Beach, Virginia. The storm is expected to turn right and circle back around to Florida.  We will get some rain but not the high winds. Praying for all of the families that are in the path of the storm.  - Shalom 

[kayc]

It's been a while since we've heard from Terri, miss seeing her here.

I've been wondering about those living in the hurricane's path, praying for everyone affected.  It looks like a horrible storm, my heart goes out to those in Haiti.  I hope their government allows aid to get in to their country. 130-140 mph winds, torrential rain/flooding, it's awful!

[MartyT]

Currently cloudy, humid and calm here in Sarasota, FL. Neither rain nor wind so far. The storm is hammering the other side of the state, however. As George says, let us pray for anyone and everyone in the path of this storm . . .

[WolfsKat]

Very windy here in my part of Florida......but, overall, we've been spared a much worse-case scenario.  I had a (plastic) lawn chair blown away and broken, and some debris from palms littering my little yard....but that's it. Power's back, and grateful for that!  In a funny coincidence, I've friends who just had their first baby born as the storm hit......their names are Matthew and Nicole (the other, minor hurricane to the east of Hurricane Matthew is named "Nicole")!!!

[WolfsKat]

18 hours ago, iPraiseHim said:

The storm is expected to turn right and circle back around to Florida.

George, that's because apparently, we Floridians need a chance for a "second opinion" regarding hurricane Matthew!!!!!   (-:

[kayc]

WolfsKat, Wow!  What a coincidence!  What did they name their baby?  It'd be interesting to see if a hurricane gets named after it!

[WolfsKat]

7 hours ago, kayc said:

WolfsKat, Wow!  What a coincidence!  What did they name their baby?  It'd be interesting to see if a hurricane gets named after it!

Kay, they've named him "Jace".......that WOULD be something if a future 'cane was named that!!!!

[brat#2]

Just wanted to let everyone know, I'm safe.  Neighbors and i evacuated Thursday afternoon to a shelter about 25 miles west inland (we live about 2 miles west of the Atlantic Ocean) and the hurricane started to hit about 11 pm that night.  We left the shelter and drove home about 4 pm on Friday, the drive was scary, still very windy and raining and the closer we got to home the more damage we were seeing.  It took us about an hour to drive the 25 miles because of the wind, rain and debris on the roads.  Got home and we all still had our homes!  I got damage to my front porch (1/2 a palm tree came down head first onto the roof), my shed in the back was destroyed, but no damage to my actual trailer that I can tell anyway.  All my neighbors are doing well too.  All of our yards though look like bombs were dropped, millions of tree limbs (big and small) all over the place.  We didn't get power until late Sunday night, so spent 3 days without power or water (we have well water) and of course it was extremely hot. 

It has been a very long, scary, crazy and lonely few days, but I made it through.  I really missed Dale, he would have been my rock through all this, but yet since I was able to make it through without completely losing my mind, I believe he was with me keeping me calm.  I hope everyone else that was in this hurricane's path are ok too.

Joyce