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Marg M   

I wonder if anyone ever thought "we are here for help" and if it does not help us, just ignore it.  How can we possibly criticize a fellow griever.  How can we see the suffering that person goes through each day and dare criticize him/her?  Grief makes us all crazy, but it is not something that can be treated by a psychiatrist.  Or, in my opinion, it should not be.  Now my friend, right after they put the stone on her husband's grave she went out and attacked that stone, with anger and malice.  In her case, there were no tears.  In her case, I think a straitjacket and a padded room should have been utilized.  My mom was angry at my dad because he got sick and made her quit the best job she ever had.  In her talking moments now, she still blames him.  Both of these men had cancer.  But, you all know my mom probably needed a padded room about 95 years ago June 2nd.  

I admit, I did get angry one time when I was pushed on by another member.  All of our feelings are like the quote one of our members put on this morning.  The sea grass that is sharp at first but gets the edges softened with time.  I think this person that pushed my anger has moved on.  I am a mother, some of you people could be my kids, I hate to see my kids suffer.  I hate to see any of you suffer.  All of our feelings are like that sea grass.  If anyone left because some angered person's grief drove them away, please consider that all of our moods do not go in line.  That person was suffering from untold grief that made anger her chief objective.  She was not angry at you, our wonderful person that tells grief so beautifully, she was angry with grief and attacked you, attacked anything she could attack, just like my friend beating on the stone.  

John Donne wrote a poem a long time ago that describes what would happen if we lost even one of you.  I won't put it on here, you all know it.  "Ask Not For Whom The Bell Tolls."  I am not good at memory, but he mentions that if England should even lose one clod of earth we would all be the worse for it.  And that describes how we would be without all of you.

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mittam99   

Mitch here.

I just want to talk a little about last night's events and I hope what I write makes sense. I didn't get much sleep (a combination of my reaction emotionally to things I read here last night and an electrical issue at my house). Please bear with me and I hope everyone reads my words with objectivity and an open mind.

My Tammy was my world, truly. She was the sweetest and most amazing woman I've ever known and she made me feel like I was the most special man in the world. The health issues we went through together would stagger most people's minds. The cardiac arrest, the multiple sepsis events, the life threatening kidney infections, the lung infection that almost killed her, the MRSA, the cellulitis, her battles with Lupus, Raynaud's and Sjogren's, And much more. I devoted my life to Tammy. Nothing meant more to me than having her in my life. And then we fought our last battle. A battle we both thought she had won after that last month and a half in the hospital and rehab place. She came home with a new outlook and with new hope for the future. Two days later my precious wife died at home. And my life was gone too.

Those of you who "met" me back then saw a devastated man who wasn't sure he could live in a world without the love of his wife. Who wasn't sure he could survive the agony and the pain. Who didn't understand a God that would take away the most wonderful woman the world has known. A woman who in the face of unimaginable medical trauma stood strong and fought the battle with grace and courage and humor. Me by her side always. I came here and you let me tell my story. Talk of my pain. I posted the eulogy I delivered at Tammy's funeral. I just wanted the world to know about this wonderful woman and our amazing love story.

Many times I'd literally post and burst into tears while posting but I needed to write the words down. And members here showed me support and a kind of understanding and love that made me think of this place as family. I was so grateful to have a place like this to come to. And honestly, I personally have gotten more positives from this experience than my time in grief counseling.

Over the past few months I've seen some light in the dark world of my grief. The tone of my posts has gone from a place of utter misery to something more hopeful. It's actually interesting that a couple members here pointed out the difference in my tone even before I even noticed the change. That's not to say that somehow my grief is "gone". This grief will last a lifetime. It's just that I do have some days that I'm not just coping, but actually functioning fairly well. And then I have days that bring me back to March 6th and that pain, that angst bubbles to the surface again.

This grief journey is hard. Hard for all of us.

When I post my "words of hope" as I have in recent times, it's only meant  to convey (to those who are still in unbearable pain) that there is some light and some measure of happiness to come for all of us. I fully understand that some aren't yet ready for that message but I am only speaking from my own experience. There is no rule book, no timetable. We all work through our grief in our own way and with methods that work best for us.

I was having a pretty good day yesterday, I got some little projects done around the house. Then I sat down at the computer last night to check out the forum. And I was completely shocked that the gentle words of hope I posted were thought of as misguided and inappropriate. I understand that iheartm is in a very difficult place emotionally and was viewing the words from a different point of view. Still, I was so taken aback and shocked. I try not to post anything in a preachy way and I  edit and re-edit my posts so that (hopefully) my words won't be misconstrued or offend.

I just want to say that after last night I felt a new sort of grief. It felt like people on the board who I considered family, weren't seeing what I saw. Weren't seeing gentle words that I had written being stated differently than intended. Didn't see me under a sort of personal attack. I felt like I was on an island all alone and no one would lend a hand to rescue me. And that hurt.

I haven't posted today because I am still confused and saddened by what went down. I'm now afraid to post a message of hope because it may be taken in a different way than intended. I don't want to anger anyone, ever. I am still shaken by all of this. I do want to thank Kay and Marg for words of encouragement they gave me privately.

Last but not least, I simply want to say that none of us has things easy. I certainly don't, iheartm doesn't either. We're all living a life that we didn't want. We all are missing the person in our life that made our life complete. But, we are all part of the same family and I hope, moving forward we all can continue to help each other the best we can.

 

 

 

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kayc   
14 minutes ago, mittam99 said:

I just want to say that after last night I felt a new sort of grief. It felt like people on the board who I considered family, weren't seeing what I saw. Weren't seeing gentle words that I had written being stated differently than intended. Didn't see me under a sort of personal attack. I felt like I was on an island all alone and no one would lend a hand to rescue me. And that hurt.

I haven't posted today because I am still confused and saddened by what went down. I'm now afraid to post a message of hope because it may be taken in a different way than intended. That really boggles my mind. I am still shaken by all of this.

Mitch,

I've walked this journey with you and heard your heartbreak over losing Tammy.  I've also been privileged to get to know you over the last year.  I found nothing offensive in anything you wrote, nothing that was deserving of the attack you got.  Although I know feelings run on edge here sometimes, I have said before and am saying again, personal attacks are way off base here and according to our guidelines, are not allowed.  Simply put, no one should be allowed to attack someone else, their dignity, speak disrespectful to them, and what you went through yesterday broke my heart for you.  I knew you were hurt bad.  I've been on the receiving end of it and I know it hurts, although never on any forum have I ever seen what took place yesterday.  When I had it happen to me I felt afraid to post for fear someone would take something wrong, and honestly, that's not a good feeling.  

Please, if someone doesn't like what someone wrote, you can ignore it and get out of that thread, message them (nicely) rather than publicly airing it, or message Marty, but let's show respect to each other and never personally attack someone.  As much pain as you might be in, remember, behind these usernames exists a real living breathing human being with feelings just like you.  

Let's make this a warm inviting place where anyone can come and feel this is a safe caring place to post their grief.  We share in this journey together, be it two weeks or two years, and we all learn from each other.  I, for one, want to see that continue to happen.

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Marg M   

Okay Mitch, I am going to tell you how important you are to this forum.  I had gone to bed and had bought Buck Owens' autobiography for my Kindle.  So, you must be mighty important for me to leave Buck Owens in bed to come answer this.  No pun intended.  (And Billy would laugh, so I don't feel guilty about saying that.)

Last night you got attacked by someone who was in the throes of an anger attack, just like my friend that attacked her husband's tombstone right after it had been placed.  Made no sense, but she had to be hurting very bad to carry it on, so we will feel sorry for her.  Sometimes angry people attack innocent people and inanimate objects.  I guess they just hurt so bad.  That widow must have really turned her into something she did not want to be.  I think it happens some times.  We have seen it around here a few times. I was attacked in a private message and I had to consider the source in this incident, and I think we have to consider it in the attack on you too.  Anger is an emotion and we should not turn it at a fellow sufferer, and certainly not suggest they go somewhere else.  I would imagine that person feels very bad today, and that is something we have to forgive.  Attacking an innocent person should not be done.  

Be assured, you have never written anything that would turn someone into a shrew.  We all are happy for any light you see.  We are all happy for any light any of us see.  I knew your feelings were hurt, I am sure we all did, and I think it was more of a shock and most could not believe it had been done.  So, we have to assume that person was hurting as bad as my friend who took a shovel to her husband's headstone.  Anger is an emotion I have had to hold down.  But, I used it to try to alleviate my pain.  Maybe this person was trying to alleviate her pain and you were the person who unfairly caught it.  Don't quit posting, and don't let someone who really did not know what they were doing harm you.  It is sad it happened, but we do have to worry about that person.  She has a long road ahead of her and she needs the help of people like you, and people that have walked this path months ahead of us.   

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mittam99   
On 4/14/2016 at 10:11 PM, iheartm said:

I've probably exhausted any chance of being supported here... so I will bid you adieu,

Actually, I encourage you to continue to post your grief journey here. It's too hard to go it alone.

I hope your pain eases over time, truly.

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enna   

Thank you for your warm thoughts, Mitch. Each one of us is very vulnerable at this time. The losses we are experiencing are so traumatic. I am so sorry that any of us have to be here. Since we are, we need the caring love and support from everyone.

It is all part of the healing process to tell our stories as we see them over and over again. And because we are each in this state of utter confusion and disbelief we find ourselves super sensitive to words. But words are just that ~ words. We fumble in our attempt to say the right thing and when we don’t we sometimes misunderstand what someone is saying. I believe that we could not survive this journey without hope. Hope is what helps us to get through each day.

It has been said before that this journey we are on is ours ~ ours alone. No one knows what is in our heart. Our hearts have been shattered and we are all trying our best. I hope that each one of us will be able to be gentle with ourselves. I believe that no one can feel any worse than we already feel. We are all welcome here and that is what we focus on. We each help to complete the circle we gather around.

Anne

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Marg M   

You guys, (and I use that for girls and boys), you are leaving the first graders to teach themselves.  We need the experience of Kay, Mitch, George, Kpilot, Brad, Anne, (and I leave off names) everyone that has experience or you have a bunch of grievers that can see no further than out the first grade door.  We have to have someone to lead us, we have to have someone that has made it through six months, one year, two years, five years, and more.  If you leave us first graders with our new grief trying to help each other, we will have the blind leading the blind.  Now, that is all I am going to say about this and now I am going to go get  back in bed with Buck.  I liked the Bakersfield sound.  I liked Dwight Yocum, and even Brad Paisley gave a forward.  See, I am reading again.  I am advancing.  I could not advance without you more experienced showing that life does happen.   

And believe me, there are a lot more of us out there that need guidance through this hellhole called grief.  Remember, "if one clot should break off England's shore, England would be the worse for it."  I don't quite know John Donne's words very well, but I know the meaning.  Now, lets not hear anything about anyone else leaving and let me go visit Buck again.

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Mitch, I think your last paragraph summed up all the misunderstandings perfectly.  I hope you got some sleep last night and we can all get back to what this family does.  Help each other however they need at the time and be happy for those that find a step further towards healing.

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iheartm   

Sorry. I did not realize that expressing howI feel about something in my aggrieved condition would be considered "attacking" someone and being disrespectful and every other invective that's been thrown my way. I'll take Kay's advice and just "get out" to avoid upsetting everyone. Thanks for the support. 

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kayc   

Lest anyone get the wrong idea since iheartm chose to quote me out of context, this is what I said:

"Please, if someone doesn't like what someone wrote, you can ignore it and get out of that thread, message them (nicely) rather than publicly airing it, or message Marty, but let's show respect to each other and never personally attack someone.  As much pain as you might be in, remember, behind these usernames exists a real living breathing human being with feelings just like you."    

For the record, Marty stated the same thing:

" If we encounter a post or a thread or a topic that grinds us the wrong way, we always have the option of not reading any further, or of going to another topic or forum, or of starting a new topic to say whatever we need to say ~ or we can choose to say nothing at all. But let us always, always be kind to one another."

We all need to do what we can to have peace and healing on this forum.

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Dear iheartm,

Let me speak from my heart.  This forum has been the lifeline for just about everyone who has posted, yourself included.  We go searching for a place that understands our pain, our confusion, our anger; a place to seek "answers" and validation.  Each and every griever is unique.  Our relationships, and the way our spouse passed and where we were in our lives when it happened are all elements that affect our journey.  It is not a journey we chose for ourselves.  I am sorry you feel unsupported.  I am not always good at smoothing things out.   We all understand that when we are in a place that the hurt and pain are so intense, we do not wish to see people speaking of their lives "moving along".  I, myself, in those days where I couldn't see straight out of pain, turned away from someone who had moved further along.  I STILL am not ready to even begin to THINK about letting go of what I am experiencing.  This forum is all about expressing what is in our hearts, and sometimes just venting.  But, even when we don't agree with what someone posts, we should respect the words that are "spoken".  You are not feeling respected, or heard, and I am sorry you feel that.  It makes the hurt even more.  You expressed that you did not think positive things should be posted here because those in early grief do not want to hear those kinds of things, can not imagine themselves feeling or seeing hope.  But, how do you think we get from the low points?  Even though we are not ready to accept the "light" words, it is that gentle encouragement that little by little helps us know this journey does move forward.  Everything in its time.  The agony of our losses is something we will never forget.  I always make myself a promise that I will never use a cliche to "help".  You are experiencing a pain that consumes us.  We come to this site to find understanding, regardless of what stage or place we are in our grief.  And even though someone feels lighter at the time, doesn't mean that the dark will not rear its painful head and wash over us.  Please know I understand what you express, and respect your opinion.  But I also respect the opinion of each and every poster here.  It is what makes this work.  

It is not possible to send you a hug, but I do.  

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Marg M   
43 minutes ago, iheartm said:

Sorry. I did not realize that expressing howI feel about something in my aggrieved condition would be considered "attacking" someone and being disrespectful and every other invective that's been thrown my way. I'll take Kay's advice and just "get out" to avoid upsetting everyone. Thanks for the support. 

I doubt that "get out" was ever advised.  I think staying in and reading other's posts would be a wise decision.  If those that are a few months ahead of me in grief see a moment of sunshine and mention it, then I think we should applaud rather than strike out at that person.  Maybe a month or so further down the  line, maybe we can pick up on some moment of happiness and think maybe it might be possible for us too because that person has suffered terribly.  Rather than attack, read, hope, anticipate. 

I think without those that have a few months, or years, experience on us, if they leave us we will have the blind leading the blind. I am afraid at least one person is going to quit leading and go on to a forum that is more "advanced" in their grief.  Without that person's experience, if any of the more experienced leave, we will have a bunch of beginners trying to lead beginners.  It won't happen. And, I doubt strongly that any aggrieved condition is worse than any other, except to our own self.  If you keep reading you get help.  If you stop, you go down the path at your own peril.  

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enna   

Please reread Marty's post on Wednesday of this week. We each travel our own road and whatever path we choose is the best one for us. 

two roads.jpg

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kayc   

Margaret,

iheartm took "get out" out of context.  Please read my reply to her (above) in which I quote both what I actually said and what Marty said, which was basically the same thing.

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mfh   

Mary here. I am a former moderator stepping in for Marty until she can get back on line. Many here know me but many do not as I have not been on the forums for many months. I am also a bereaved spouse, having lost the love of my life 6 years ago. I am also  a psychotherapist and grief counselor of 40 years. Just to let you know who is typing here. 

I have read much of this string and It is sad when someone feels a need to leave because they do not feel supported. Especially when these groups are filled with supportive people. I can not say what Marty has said about the tension here any more clearly or better than she has said it. I would hope that anyone who is considering leaving or who is feeling unsupported would scroll back through this string and re-read Marty's many posts addressing the tension. People are free on these forums to share their pain basically on any forum and all of us here are called on to read and respond from a place of love and compassion. Judging, putting "should" on ourselves or others does not work. Time for folks to take a breath, read Marty's wise input, and reach out in love. I do not think anyone here intentionally wants to hurt anyone. The upset we feel is within each of us....everyone  here is in pain and so looking inside to our own pain when we feel upset by something someone types is a good starting place. Even after six years I find myself being  hypersensitive to what people say, people who have no intention of saying anything to upset me. This journey through grief is tenuous, and we frequently react to others instead of responding. Yes, I still do this occasionally. Judging anyone just does not work. I hope everyone here stays and continues to just be present in love to each other in their pain....empathic compassionate caring. 

I will be checking back in now amd then until Marty gets power back in her home. These forums helped me so much when I felt hopeless. I know that is and can be true for everyone here. I wish each of you peace as you also struggle with loss. Mary

 

 

 

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Marg M   

Kay, I knew you would never tell anyone to "get out."  We do not need to lose our  "experience" and I am afraid one might have moved on to a more "advanced" years of grief forum.  I hope not.  Everyone has free will.  

I did income tax all day yesterday.  I had help.  Numbers kept pushing my head under water.  Billy always waited till the 14th and he would work furiously.  I worked furiously just to put  off the main form until  later.  I got my extension, I will send in my check today.  When i get settled in my new apartment then I will figure out how this extension is not the real deal.  I have never figured income tax before.  I should have had this done when I was in Louisiana but living in a suitcase, you lose things, misplace them.  While I was out of this house one of my house guests decided to tidy up and I have no idea where Billy's old taxes are located now.  He kept them in one place, each year on top of the other. These papers meant nothing to anyone but Billy and myself.  I am at a loss of energy and don't even want to go to the post office.  I have to get one foot in front of the other. 

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I keep a book on my desk, actually two of them. I read them every day (they are actually daily meditation books).  Today's quote that I felt was appropriate comes from  the "Healing After Loss" by Martha Whitmore Hickman.

"Under the calmest of circumstances there is no planning that can anticipate every contingency. But when out lives are all but shattered by grief, it is often a mystery how we're going to get through the next 24 hours, let alone make the necessary adaptations for the next five years, or ten, or twenty.  There is no hurry.  And no hurrying.  The future will unfold, whether we're ready or not. We will make what impact we can on that future. Much of it will be out of our hands - a mystery, then as now."

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mittam99   
2 hours ago, Froggie4635 said:

But when out lives are all but shattered by grief, it is often a mystery how we're going to get through the next 24 hours, let alone make the necessary adaptions for the next five years, or ten, or twenty.  There is no hurry.  And no hurrying.  The future will unfold, whether we're ready or not.

These are wise words and so absolutely true, Maryann. When we are in the early stages of grief, just getting through an hour sometimes feels virtually impossible. The idea of a future, even thinking a week down the road, is overwhelming. Sometimes we just feel like we don't even want a future. The pain is just too much to bear.

For me, personally, the intense pain has subsided, although that pain is always just a thought or a trigger away. Each of us it seems, has to find our way in this new life in a manner that best suits us. What works for one person may not work for someone else. Yes, we've all lost our soul mate but we are different people who have lived different lives. As has been said, one size surely does not fit all in grief.

No one knows what the future holds for us all, but hopefully it includes some peace and some measure of happiness.

 

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iheartm   

I've asked Marty to delete my account so not to worry, I won't be "attacking" anyone anymore once she is back online. Thanks for refusing to even try to see any validity in anything I had to say and instead just jumped all over me accusing me of attacking. Feels great to have no family, no friends that are widows and no support groups to join. 

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What saddens me is so many tried to ease the misunderstanding.  I've never seen so many posts asking you not to leave and offering support.  Trying to make this right because of some misunderstood wording.  It is certainly your choice to leave, but after the outpouring of heartfelt caring I wonder if you have seen how much people can care.  This may be in breach of what Marty asked us not to do, but I feel you are trying to make the very people that tried so hard to help you feel invalidated as you do.  

Marty and Mary, delete this if it is unacceptable.

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mfh   

iheartm said: " I've asked Marty to delete my account so not to worry, I won't be "attacking" anyone anymore once she is back online. Thanks for refusing to even try to see any validity in anything I had to say and instead just jumped all over me accusing me of attacking. Feels great to have no family, no friends that are widows and no support groups to join." 

 

Dear iheartm, I am so sorry you feel you must leave when so many here have reached out to you. I will pass along to Marty your request to have your name removed from the membership list. I am especially sorry you have made this decision in view of how people here have reached out to you. I do hope you find the support you are seeking. I do believe firmly (after reading this string) that it is  certainly here to be found but I respect your decision to look elsewhere. Mary

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Marg M   

Well, I hope it is not deleted.  You said what we all wanted to say..We hurt, we hurt bad, we hurt period, and dammit, no one hurts any worse than the other one.  But, if some levity, somebody can see a glimmer of a sunbeam in a day, don't rain on his parade..  If you did not see it, wait around, when you have been here three months, four months, six months, five years, ten years, listening to these people that have lived way past our own grief, those that have suffered as much as we suffer, applaud their small achievement, and hope like heck that one of these days you will lose the anger, for just a few minutes.  The world is not fair.  We get angry at things, beat the tombstone, but don't beat down on people that are trying to live one day at a time, just like you are, and don't suggest they go somewhere else because you might be left here all alone and then where would your help come from.  Okay, mine can be deleted too.  Sometimes my witchy side comes out.  

 

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51 minutes ago, Marg M said:

 Okay, mine can be deleted too.  Sometimes my witchy side comes out.  

Marg, now I have that Eagles sing Witchy Woman stuck in my head!   

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