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Emotional Rollercoaster


JJ660

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After a few weeks of uncertainty, D's death was ruled a suicide. I still have my doubts about the ruling, but it is what it is.

I have my days where I am feeling okay, and others where I feel completely lost and broken. I keep replaying our final conversation and thinking maybe he thought I was rejecting him or something? I was just scared, and still am.

I was also diagnosed with postpartum depression (go figure!) And keep having thoughts that I don't want the baby and can't handle her. I think a portion of it is that I feel guilty that I told my boyfriend I wasn't sure I was ready to be a parent, and am worried this triggered the suicide because maybe he felt I was rejecting him?

Now, I'm having to raise her as a single parent, and I can't help but think she would benefit from two parents or even my in-laws. The other side of me wants to honor his legacy by raising her. I never thought I would be doing this alone.

Does anyone have recommendations for suicide support groups or grief support groups? I saw a counselor, but I felt like she merely listened to my story, instead of providing constructive coping mechanisms or referrals.

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I don't live in the States so I cannot offer recommendations, but going to therapy has been my salvation. I can talk about my feelings in a safe environment with no judgment. If you didn't feel confortable with this counselor, perhaps you can look for another one? I tried two before I found my therapyst. The first one was very straight forward and I didn't feel ready for that framework, I was so vulnerable....still I am. 

I have read your posts and I'm sorry for your loss and for all you have been gone through. 

Ana

 

 

 

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One of the best ways to process what is difficult for a person is to talk about it to someone who will listen and encourage you to just talk in a safe environment, such as individual counseling. Talking allows you to sort things out, and the more times you talk about it the more clear it will become. A good counselor will mostly listen, offer some insights, and make even fewer suggestions, and make strong recommendations only when true danger is imminent. In fact, the most common mistake counselors make is to jump in and offer advice too soon. 

Groups can be helpful because you hear others' stories that are similar to your own, and sometimes it is easier to make objective observations in another person than in yourself, since it's hard to get out of your own head far enough to get a clear view.

A local hospice would be a good place to ask for referrals to grief counselors and/or groups.

This site is also very helpful...you will find many people who are on the same path and have a good understanding of the path you are on, because each in their own way, we are all on the same path of coming to grips with significant loss. The site has a very nice "feel" to it, and people are kind and supportive, in some part due to the people that it attracts, but also largely due to Marty, a certified grief counselor, who moderates the site, encourages the safe environment of unconditional positive regard for all. Marty also offers her own comments and refers members and visitors to articles that can be very helpful and pertinent.

Be patient with yourself and take careful and thoughtful care of yourself, because you are really going through a lot!

-Laura

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I thought Marty posted some links for you with your original thread.  I would keep looking until I got the therapist and was meant for me.  I doubt he commit suicide because you said you weren't sure you were ready for parenthood, I'm not sure anyone is "ready" because we don't know what it involves until we get there, that doesn't mean we aren't going to be good parents though!

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Hello,

Like you, I feel like I'm on a roller coaster ride (from hell and back).  None of this ride is comfortable.

The councellor I am seeing has been telling me that I need to look after myself and to be kind to myself.  The other thing we have talked about is being your own best friend.  She also says I need to do what is right for me... That is hard because I don't know what 'right' is.  

I hope you can find a way to prevent your feelings of guilt from stealing your energy.  My guilt has been like a cancer eating away at me.  Talking about it with someone who understands suicide is very, very healing.  

There is so much tragedy and trauma in your life and I feel incredibly sad for you.  Please know there are good people who can help you.  Perhaps you can ask a supportive person to help you find a good counsellor.  

You are in my thoughts and prayers.  If you want to send me a message just to chat I would welcome it.

Marita

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JJ my dear, I'm so sorry this ruling was not what you were hoping for ~ but please know that no matter how your beloved died, it was not your fault. We simply cannot control another person's behavior, and there is no way that something you said or failed to say would be powerful enough to make this happen (or to prevent it from happening, for that matter). I know that my saying that will not be enough to convince you, but I hope you will take it to heart and one day come to believe it yourself.

You've asked for suggestions for useful resources and constructive coping mechanisms, and here are some I can offer you. Be sure to see some of the Related Articles and Resources listed at the end of each article, too:

Surviving A Spouse's Death by Suicide

Grief Support for Survivors of Suicide

Grief and The Burden of Guilt

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In case it might be helpful, here are some thoughts and experiences with suicide. I apologize for the length of it.

I once worked in mental health in a prison, and since the risk of suicide in prisons and jails is very high, they had all of us who worked in mental health take turns doing trainings for the officers and other staff about suicide prevention-what to watch for and what to do. I did this for five years, and from all of it the biggest thing that I learned was that almost everyone who is suicidal is actually deeply ambivalent. There are rare individuals who are determined to kill themselves and they will try one thing after another until they are successful. Some people are successful on their first attempt. But most people think about it, change their minds and go 'round and 'round about it and may make many attempts or "gestures", all of which should be taken seriously. Most people who consider suicide are desperate and/or believe they cannot tolerate things any longer and there are no options. I really believe that many many people think about suicide at some point in their lives but don't act on it.

I lost my job a couple of years after coaxing my dad out to AZ, and so here we both were with big fat mortgages and I had no job and people were losing their jobs right and left. My dad carried me throughout the whole ordeal while I did all kinds of things--taught ukulele lessons, played classical/jazz guitar and/or cello gigs, sold a little artwork, did home healthcare as a social worker--but made very little money. I wasn't sure if I could really count on my dad to keep helping me-I didn't know him that well yet. I also felt responsible for his being in the situation he was in. He really had to help me because he needed me to help him. I felt pretty desperate, and I was sure that I would never do any professional work again, but was too young to retire. I would sometimes lie on the floor with arm around my cello (Mr. Cello) at my side, and wait to stop breathing. I thought I could just stop breathing, but it never worked. After a while I would get tired of lying there, get up, and practice the cello. I spent some time contemplating if there was some way I could just die and take Mr Cello with me without hurting anyone else, because I was sure my life was over.

Then one day someone hacked my email and emailed everyone I know (from me) a sales link to a weight loss product from China. Most people ignored the email, but a former professor from U of A sent me an email back, saying how nice it was to hear from me and by the way did I need any work? Well yes I did, as a matter of fact! She connected to me the guy I now do subcontract work with. 

I write this story because I think it's such a typical story of ambivalence and desperation (well, the part about Mr. Cello is not very typical). Well, I also had a rather non-lethal method (waiting to stop breathing is unrealistic for a healthy person in their fifties). But the ambivalence is classic-lying on the floor waiting to stop breathing and then changing my mind and deciding to play the cello instead. What if I had a gun when I was thinking all that? (A real gun and not the one I have that is made of wood and shoots rubber bands to amuse the cat).

I had a close friend who killed herself years ago. She was a brilliant woman in medical school who had worked as a pharmacist before going to medical school. She wanted to be a psychiatrist. She tried over and over to kill herself via drug overdose. I was always glad she was unsuccessful, but I wondered why she couldn't figure out what it would take to kill a person-she was a pharmacist! Talk about ambivalence...I remember her telling me after many attempts that she was going to stop trying to kill herself because she was in medical school and it was embarrassing waking up in the E.R. with her classmates working on her to bring her back to life. She would try to kill herself and then a week later be totally obsessed about some exam or a weird color to dye her hair. I decided I needed to not be friends with her because it was just too much chaos, and half way through my social work program we went to San Diego and I really thought she was going to kill both of us (she was driving). I called my parents in a panic from San Diego (before the internet) and they helped me figure out how to find a travel agent in a strange city with no car, and I flew home alone. She did not kill herself then, but after several more years and several more attempts she was eventually successful. She was absolutely ambivalent, but she was also rather determined. This struggle of to be or not to be went on for at least a decade and she had a fabulous therapist-possibly the best in Tucson and even he couldn't save her...

When I learned that she had killed herself, it made me wonder if I had contributed to her distress (by deserting her to save myself) or if there was something I could have done or should have done. But that was all rather unrealistic. It wasn't my fault and there was nothing I could to as her friend or otherwise.

I really believe that my dad stopped breathing in his sleep because he knew we were at the end of the road with him living at home. I couldn't care for him alone and if he continued living, he was going to have to live in a facility, and we-mostly me-would have to figure out how to deal with his condo, his possessions, etc. He didn't want to do it. And so he gave up, stopped breathing, and was able to pull that off because he was 88 with Parkinson's Disease. I absolutely believe he died voluntarily because he didn't want the alternative. I couldn't make him want to keep living, and it's not my fault. I did everything possible for him, but he decided he was out of road.

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8 hours ago, Clematis said:

Most people who consider suicide are desperate and/or believe they cannot tolerate things any longer and there are no options.

This is true.  That's why when I've hit my lowest points in life, I've reminded myself "it won't be like this forever".  As people, we have to have hope.

My friend, Bobby, he was extremely depressed, had been seeing a psychologist and was on medication, it wasn't doing it for him.  It was a weekend and on Monday he had an appointment to see his therapist and was going to get his medication changed.  Instead he shot himself, with his dog in the truck with him.  Why did he take his dog with him?  Why couldn't he think about what would happen to his dog if he killed himself?  His mom was severely allergic to dogs so they couldn't take him in.  His sister was getting married the next month, he didn't think about what this would do to her?  No, he couldn't see his way up, he wasn't thinking of anyone but the pain he was in.  He just wanted out of the pain.  This was a guy who had everything going for him, parents that were very supportive, a good job, intelligent, people who loved him.  I think some people have psychological conditions that predispose them to this susceptibility.  And for those, I don't know there's anything any of us could do to prevent it, Lord knows people tried to help him.

My husband, George, told he he'd attempted suicide when he was young, and he was glad he wasn't successful with it.  I never met a person with more zest for life than him!  It goes to show that things can change, we have to give it that chance to change and not act on our desperation of the moment.

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That is very sad about your friend Bobby. The problem with hope is that it's not 100% of the time, and neither is the despair. It seems to me that our feelings are in a state of flux and flow all of the time, and we all have times when the negatives seem so much more prominent than the positives-so much more prominent that you can't even remember that anything good ever happened to you. Well, if a person is depressed it seems like that; its totally myopic. I think that's probably why Bobby wasn't thinking about his dog, even though his dog was with him. 

When I was lying on the floor with Mr Cello, I wasn't thinking about my dad. I was thinking about my miserable self, and eventually it came to me that I loved that cello more than anything and I didn't want anyone to play him but me, and if I stopped breathing they would play him. I obviously got over that, and hundreds of people have played Mr Cello (with me there), mostly classes of kids, but also strangers I met at Wal-Mart, the GYN's waiting room, the park, some trail where I brought him on my back, and so on. I swear that cello saved my life...

Anyway, I think that with the ebb and flow of emotion that we all have all of the time, we have to just try to keep the sunny side in view and look out for others in despair...

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Dear Laura, I hope that you will keep breathing and that you stay with Mr Cello. The world needs more music. My idea of paradise has the soundtrack of an orchestra. I understand nothing about music but I have found out that I like to go to classical music concerts. String instruments are my fav. I like to watch the arp and violins. I allow myself to discover different sounds. I pay close attention to musicians and I think: look how they move, how they play the violin, these people are extraordinary". 

Keep playing your cello. I will observe cellos next time 

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2 hours ago, scba said:

Dear Laura, I hope that you will keep breathing and that you stay with Mr Cello. The world needs more music. My idea of paradise has the soundtrack of an orchestra. I understand nothing about music but I have found out that I like to go to classical music concerts. String instruments are my fav. I like to watch the arp and violins. I allow myself to discover different sounds. I pay close attention to musicians and I think: look how they move, how they play the violin, these people are extraordinary". 

Keep playing your cello. I will observe cellos next time 

Thank you, Ana! I am still playing and I hope to be with Mr. Cello forever. I wake up breathing every morning even when it seems like a suboptimal plan. Mr. Cello and I missed celebrating our 5-year Celloversary- the anniversary of when we met and I began playing the cello. Our Celloversary was May 20, which was the day I was in the car accident. I'll have to figure out some way to make it up to him. Well, now that my MRI's are clear and I am off restriction, tomorrow we are going to join a group of musician friends in a park in Flagstaff to play music. It will be the first time we have been anywhere in a few weeks.

Here is a picture of Lena listening to Mr Cello-you can see the music coming off of his strings and that Lena is listening to the music...this watercolor of mine was on one of the community orchestra's program covers a year ago.

If you love strings, you should get an instrument and start playing it. If you are really drawn to it, you will find a way to learn to play. If you love the cello, you should get one and play it. Cello is actually easier to learn as adult than the violin. But if you love the violin, get one and you'll find a way...

IMG_8898.jpg

 

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When I was twelve, my grandfather committed suicide. And the way it happened was traumatic (especially for my sister). He was a cabbie and used to pick up my older sister and he'd drive her to college in the morning. And on this morning his cab was parked outside as it always was. The only thing was, he didn't come in for his usual cup of coffee while he was waiting for my sister to get ready. So, my sister walks outside to go to his cab and to her horror, sees him slumped over the wheel, gun by his side, dead, with a bullet in his head. I'll never understand why this happened. Why did he park in front of our house like that? He left a note behind at my grandmother's house that said he couldn't take it anymore and he felt like he had ruined his family's life (he was a gambler and had huge debts). He was very beloved by me, I never imagined he would take his own life. He just didn't seem to be that type of person. My mother and grandmother were of course, a mess.

Which is why I am so affected by those who have lost someone by suicide. Losing a beloved soul mate is devastating but the added anguish of a suicide is hard to imagine.

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Gosh, Mitch-that is terrible! How horrible and traumatic for your sister-and the whole family!

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I would imagine he wanted to be found but didn't think about how it was going to be for those that found him.  Suicide adds a whole new level to losing someone. :(

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Thank you all for sharing your stories. It helps to know I'm not alone in all of this, especially because unexpected deaths are so different than anticipatory deaths. I can't imagine the horror of finding a loved one. That just adds another layer to the grieving process.

I don't know what he was thinking, as we had a lot of major upcoming events that would have brought him so much joy.

Thank you for sharing your story about Mr. Cello. Music is a great healer, and your painting is gorgeous! 

I appreciate the resources you provided, and I plan to attend some support groups in my area. I want to better understand coping mechanisms and hear stories from survivors. I've also put myself on a waiting list for the psychiatrist because they were going to make me wait a month before being seen. I'm hoping I will receive a call in the coming days.

It's hard to properly grieve when my hormones are raging, and I have our newborn daughter. I just question if the news gave him something to live for, and he freaked out when I was emotional; or if it was something else? 

I'm going to give myself plenty of time before making any life-changing decisions regarding our daughter. I know my mind is unsound right now, so I'm coping as best as possible. The baby is well-behaved and beautiful, but doing this alone is going to be incredibly tough. I work full-time and have only a few classes left before I complete my degree. Yes, I have family and friends, but they can only do so much. I just feel I would be able to cope better if I didn't have the baby and could simply push forward with work, school, and life in general.

I just want to escape this harsh reality.

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I'm glad you're near the finish line with your degree, it'll be easier when you can focus on job and home rather than have so many places demanding your attention.  I've learned to do a day at a time, believe me, when I start thinking about "the rest of my life" or too far into the future, that's when I can't handle it very well, I get anxious.  I try to shove my thoughts back to today...I can handle today.

I'm sorry you have to wait so long to see the psychiatrist, but hopefully it will help just having that bit of a plan in place, you've taken a step.  

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15 hours ago, JJ660 said:

I just want to escape this harsh reality.

JJ-You need to tell your primary care physician, pediatrician, OB/Gyn, or any medical doctor you are correctly working with that you are feeling this way, and that you have an overwhelming load of grief, loss, and depressive feelings. You said you were diagnosed with postpartum depression, and it sounds like you do, but you didn't say by whom. Whoever diagnosed you should be actively following up on that. If it was not a medical doctor, that should be passed along to whatever medical doctor you are working with. Any medical doctor-or nurse practitioner-can prescribe medications, if needed-including but not only a psychiatrist.

Psychotherapy can be provided by counselors, social workers, and other licensed masters level educated clinicians. Psychiatrists usually don't do a lot of psychotherapy; they are generally more involved in the prescription of psychotropic medications. Therapy would probably be very helpful for you, and a certified grief counselor would be an excellent choice. But if you can't find a grief counselor, find some other clinician to talk to-someone you "click" with. I know you talked to someone, but keep looking.

These are two related, but separate things-finding a counselor to talk to (counselor/psychotherapist) and following up on the diagnosis of postpartum and your feelings of desperation with a medical provider. Feeling like you want to escape is a statement of desperation and it is serious. Please don't wait for a psychiatrist or anyone else. I know it is the weekend, but you must be working with some medical doctor because you just had a baby. Any doctor has someone who is "on call" for them on evenings, weekends, etc. They have to. I would really encourage you to talk to someone about that. Like today.

I am a psychotherapist, but I am not your psychotherapist, and I don't know you. If I did, I would be on the phone right now helping you find someone. But I can't do that-I can only urge you to get on the phone or go to urgent care and let a medical provider know that you have been diagnosed with postpartum depression and are having thoughts that you want to escape. It would be best if was your own doctor, but at this point any doctor would be better than none.

And keep checking in with us. We care and will be here to support you! -Laura

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JJ, I agree completely with the wise advice that Laura has given you. While I also encourage you to "keep checking in with us" because we DO care about you, I also want to emphasize what is stated in our site's Guidelines:

Are these forums designed to be a substitute for grief counseling or grief therapy?

The information offered on this site is not meant in any way to substitute for professional or medical advice. Our Grief Healing Discussion Groups are offered as a supplement to – not as a substitute for – sharing with a trusted other (relative, friend, neighbor, clergy, colleague), participating in an in-person grief support group or meeting with a professional grief counselor or therapist. The site is best used primarily for social and emotional support, and for exchanging information about end-of-life care, loss, grief and transition.

We strongly recommend that our forums be used as a compliment or adjunct to traditional grief therapy or grief counseling. It also needs to be said that some people’s needs may exceed the capacity of an online message board to help. Sometimes grief can be so complicated that people get “stuck” in the process, and they need more help than we can give them in forums such as these. Individuals struggling with complicated grief are encouraged to seek the help of a professional therapist. Persons in danger of hurting themselves or someone else, those whose anger is out of control, or those whose grief does not diminish at all over an extended period of time, will not find what they need on this site, no matter how many messages they post. Therefore we urge such individuals to seek professional assistance at once, so they can get the help they so badly need and deserve. We believe that grief counseling and individual psychotherapy are among the most precious gifts we can choose to give to ourselves, and they can change our lives for the better.

What if you are in crisis?

The site is not intended for individuals who are in crisis and actively contemplating suicide.  If you're thinking of suicide, read this first.  If you are experiencing serious suicidal thoughts that you cannot control, please stop now and telephone 911 or call 1-800-273-TALK (8255).

As Laura stated, JJ, you shouldn't have to wait a month to see a qualified mental health professional. I hope you will take her sound advice to heart, and make this a top priority for yourself. And by all means, keep us posted so we'll know that you're all right. 

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Thank you all for caring. I'm being treated by my primary doctor and OBGYN for postpartum. They know the entire situation and prescribed me Paxil. Unfortunately, it was giving me bad side effects, so the doctor told me to wait until I see the psychiatrist for different medication. I've since been told to call the office daily to see if they have cancellations, since I'm currently off work. I may do some additional research to see if any other offices take my insurance because waiting a month is absurd. I want to feel better so I can make decisions about the baby and life.

The doctor also provided me with information about a PPD support group, though I'm not sure if it is facilitated by doctors or peers.

I didn't mean to alarm anyone with that comment. I don't feel like harming myself or the baby, I meant I want to just move away and leave this grief behind. If it wasn't for the baby and my friends, I would easily uproot to a new city.

Edited by JJ660
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Thanks for the update...we were concerned about you, and it's good to hear that you are coping with things. I think we have all had times when we felt desperate- times when stressful and/or painful or traumatic things come into our lives too close together. I think all of us are supposed to look out for each other, and sometimes something we say may seem more alarming to another than it actually is. It's good you are being treated by your primary doctor and OBGYN for postpartum. The problem with psych meds is that it is so variable from one person-what works or does not work, and so this tedious trial and error period is more typical than not. It can really make you wonder if they're totally guessing, and to some degree it really is an educated guess and you just have to be patient. I think the best clues you can give a doctor is to tell your doc about hour history with psych meds, if you have any history. Sometimes there is a family tendency of what works and doesn't, and so if you have a sibling or parent who had good results-or bad results-with a certain drug, that can be good info.

Well, glad to hear that you are doing ok and being looked after.  -Laura

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Postpartum blues can be really hard to deal with, it can cloud your thinking.  I didn't get the impression you'd harm your baby, but was afraid you'd adopt her out, and I just think it's important to get this under control before making a major decision.  I'm glad you have friends where you are, that helps.

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After feeling like I've been bounced around, I finally got prioritized for a psychiatry appointment this week.

My thoughts regarding the baby haven't changed, so I am definitely going to bring that up in the session. I've been staying with family to avoid feeling lonely, and to alleviate some of the baby stress.

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JJ,

Do you mind my asking how old you are?

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