Maureen

Paul!!! sure, come on over......... we'll all have a grand time! don't ya wish we could all get together? it would be great!

i totally 150% agree with Paul's last post. the entire post. yes, the combustability is simply not worth it. and it's scary. which is why the topic will not ever be discussed in my family ever unless my sister should have a revelation of some sort. the absolute best thing to do as Paul said, is "duck and cover" and distance oneself from the rest of the pack who just ain't dealin' with it similarly to yourself. i made that decision and i'm glad i did. Paul's initial question is a very important and very exceedingly difficult one to answer. perhaps there is no correct, right answer. you need to be true to yourself as he said, to be able to handle yourself and your feelings before you can possibly be of service to others. i wish family would be able to put differences aside and come together, but i don't think that will ever happen, it's a fond wish, but not a realistic one in terms of varying personalities, culture, viewpoints. such a shame. for my part i wish paul the best of luck in this difficult situation and i for one, admire his sensitivity to the issue and applaud his decision. maylissa, come on over for lunch............

i have my mom's ashes with me and i have set her up a beautiful spot in my curio cabinet, full of her little trinkets, you know, her "stuff" and plenty of pictures, the Mass cards, etc. plus i have a special "MOM" spot in every room of my home. she may not have a gravesite, but my mom has a loving and memorable spot in each room to honor her the person, and her life, and to keep her essence fresh.

maylissa, people are very strange creatures. i don't know, i can't figure out why you don't have any real friends. you seem like the sort of person i would love to have around! i thought you meant you felt worthless in relation to the fact that your mom was no longer around. that's the only reason i told that story. i have very few real friends. no one in my family. my old friends from my old life dropped me like a stone when my mom got sick. if i have an actual handful of people i can call true friends, that'd be alot. i can be a hermit. i'm very socialable too, but it hurts when no one reciprocates, which is why i treat my birdies like little people, and why i work at home, and work so darn hard at my business. that business is my life line. life itself doesn't hold much charm, mostly because it's so human oriented and i don't like my own species that much!!! LOL but i'm comfortable here on this board, and theres SO much unhappiness, sorrow and hurt in the world that if we can make a little difference to someone here, well that's good enough for me.

Maylissa, it sounds to me like you have been put in a position by your family in your formative years that makes you feel somewhat worthless (i use the term lightly because i don't know another word for what you are portraying) and that the totally insensitive comments of your husband are further compounding and re-inforcing that feeling of feeling as though your self worth is really de-valuating. i agree you husband (forget your brother!) but your husband, while he may be able to *accept* death has been completely and utterly insensitive to you and your needs. without question. good thing he's not my husband because we would've had one good go around about that. to be the practical, steady partner is one thing. to "accept" death is another, all good and enviably valid qualities. to express it SO insensitively is tacky beyond belief. if you don't feel that inside he'd be suffering, or did suffer with your furkids, or found it that easy to "get over" it, i'd say he's got some hefty emotional baggage of his own he's totin' around. namely, denial, avoidance, and intolerance to the very things that warm the core of the human being. the love of a beloved pet, the unconditional devotion, love and larger than life care that our pets bestow on us humans is something that cuts out a piece of your heart when they are dying or are taken from us suddenly, whichever way they go, the void left in our hearts is equivalent to a piece of our heart being cut out. the night Miss Pea was taken from me, a piece of me died that night. a big piece of the old Maureen died that night. never to return. i mourn her to this day, 2 yrs. and change later, no i don't cry too much, because Snugs would hear me, and he cries then. so to not mourn a wife, a husband, a parent, a human that you love, life with and care about and to really mean it wouldn't turn your world upside down, as you seem to think he REALLY means it, to me is inconceivable. but you know what? i've always been of the opinion then, that that sort of behavior is THAT PERSON'S problem, and i've always resolved not to make it mine. this does NOT minimize the hurt inflicted by any means. but you have to try to be stronger and be the bigger person here..... don't let his inadequacy of truly dealing with emotion and death become your downfall, don't let it influence your self worth!!! i don't even know you beyond this forum and you are certainly too far away for us to visit, but i wouldn't hesitate to have you in my home as my friend. i wouldn't hesitate to let you come over whenever you wanted and play with my birds and visit. you are worth far more to me, just little old me, than various members of my own supposed family. you are a very valuable human being. sometimes those closest to a special person simply do not see the forest for the trees and do not see their value. i think that is what is happening with your husband. he's got himself in an "out of sight, out of mind" mode and that's that. how do you deal with that? look at him in a new light....... he's missing out on some great stuff because he's in a rut that is insensitive and unemotional. he's giving you an example of how not to be. learn by it. do you think this attitude of his is going to cause a rift betw. you two of any sizable proportion?

excellent point made by Maylissa. what to do about these vastly differing styles of grief, and are the rifts mendable? this is simply my personal feeling from my own experience. i'm no counselor or pro at this. so, take my two cents the way i lay it on the table. heads up. no the rift is most distinctly not mend-able, and what to do about the differing styles? keep a polite distance. since my mother's passing, i have not been able to stomach the idea of talking to my sister, and firmly made up my mind, as each month went by, that i was correct in keeping a very distant politeness. she came to my home an hour and a half after my mom passed. i had already arranged to have my mom removed from the home......... because my sister had promised time and again to give me relief from caregiving and never once followed through on it. never once even put her mom on the commode. nothing. so when my mom passed, she had such the look of angelic peace on her face, the hospice lady asked me did i want to wait for my sister and i said "no, she did not contribute once to the peace on that face, so i will deprive her of ever seeing her mother at total and complete peace." the lady from hospice totally agreed with me, called the funeral director, and they came and got my mom within the hour. she was gone about 15 minutes and my sister came. my sister was totally and visibly creeped out when she came into the bedroom. visibly creeped. she never once spoke a word about my mom, never shed a tear, in fact told jokes and laughed. in fact had the gall to speak about our father, who'd abused my mom badly and they'd gotten divorced so many years ago. she talks about 'her' father as though he were gold. my neighbors were even appalled at her behavior. i was just so taken aback. not one tear, word, hug, nothing. well it's been that way for six months now. i've gotten precisely 2 phone calls from her in six months, and both times she talked about herself. whenever i'd mention mom, she'd cut me off in mid-conversation, so i'd keep on talking about mom. then i'd get a "yeah, whatever" answer. my point here is, my grief, which yes, i hid behind a barrier so that i could get things done in a competent manner, and then behind my own closed doors in my privacy with either myself, my birdies, or close friends, my grief was raw and real. is that rift mendable? h*ll no! i've thought and thought about it. analyzed it. tried to understand how anyone could behave like so. analyzed whether i had become too emotional. tried desperately to see things from her point of view. well i can't. end of story. i am not sorry for my behavior, and i cannot understand hers. the gulf created by the opposing behaviors is too big to just say hey let's put it aside. what to do about it? again, from my own viewpoint........... keep a polite distance. if it were ever discussed, it would become one unpleasand scene of major proportions. as far as i am concerned, i refuse to discuss it with her, i refuse to back down from how i feel, and i do not call her, i do not email her. other than those two phone calls when she just talked about herself, she emailed me once about would i care to go on an outing with her, as though nothing had happened. i told her no and that was that. if her ex-husband hadn't taken ill so tragically and so suddenly, we would not have had any communication yet. i don't choose to surround myself with people who deal with grief like that. while i respect everyone's right to deal with it as they see fit, i don't have to surround myself with such coldness. so from my perspective, it is NOT mendable and the best thing to do is to avoid a confrontation as it will not change a thing.

i don't know, i don't have any answers to that one. i feel the same way. but.. i know my mom is still with me. how do i know? just a few days ago i was in one of my rants, everything was terrible, i felt worthless, i was a loser, i was a failure, i lost interest in my business, and what i was doing, and even told my pets they should go find another mommy because i wasn't worthy of taking care of them. I WAS IN A REAL BAD WAY. not crying, too tired for that, not even screaming. just ranting about what a miserable person i was and how worthless i felt. (i look back at that today and i'm sitting here starting to laugh a little at myself) ok but i don't want to spoil this. picture a huge rant and i'm really genuinely feeling worthless and just awful. back when my mom was well, for years she had the bookcase in front of the living room window and always put the lamp on at 5pm so that it would be on when i pulled in the driveway from work. very pretty in the window and talk about comforting. well of course she's gone, furniture's been re-arranged and the dining room is now my office and the bookcase and lamp are in there. everyday at 4pm i stop working, turn that light on, and go in to my featherkids and play with them til about 5:30 and then they go night night. her picture is on my desk and i always tell her "you put the light on for me so i wouldn't come home to the dark, now i don't want you sitting in the dark". ok you get the picture. the day of my rant, i was in such a pissy mood, i never put the light on. i was in with my kids, telling them just how bad mommy felt about life with out their grandma (my mom) and what a bum i was. i came into the kitchen and saw how dark it was (no light on in office) and said the h*ll with it. went back to my kids. put them night night. came out to put something in my office, and THE LIGHT WAS ON. stopped me dead, pardon the pun, in my tracks, to the point where i got a pain in my chest. i really couldn't talk. i looked at my mom's picture in the living room like, what's going on......... and in my head i heard her voice. (not the first time) "well it stopped your silly talk didn't it? you're not a failure. far from it." it's hard to explain........ why a loved one's passing makes you feel worthless. because you couldn't help them more? because you couldn't change the tide for them? is it because you couldn't have more control over events? i don't know. but as feelings of worthlessness and failure go, these are some pretty heavy feelings. it's not the first time my mom has stepped in since she's gone and straightened me out. boy am i grateful too. basketcase i'd be.

oh emily i am SO sorry. that is a load almost too unbearable to even think about. here's my slant on it........ your siblings are in a better place where they can no longer hurt themselves, be hurt by anyone, and you need to realize that. you need to realize they are SAFE now and forever. nothing and no one can ever hurt them again. that being said, does NOT make any of it easier to bear. but it may, in the long run, benefit you in dealing with it. my heart hurts for you Emily, and i will keep you in my daily prayers. be strong and come back here often. we're a nice bunch and you will find a great deal of comfort and good thoughts here to help you get through this most difficult time of your life. hugs {{{{{{Emily}}}}}

maylissa i replied to you under general grief. i hope it helps.

hmmmmm, well, here's my two cents on this. while i truly despise categories and labels for people and behavior, what Marty wrote does make perfect sense. however, my innate and intense dislike for labels gives me a problem with it. but, going along with what she wrote, which i agree with, and with what i went through with my own mom and sisters, perhaps i can shed some light on both paul and maylissa's questions. i'm a female, yet, i fell into both categories of behavior ~ to other people's faces, and in public, and with friends, even friends who came to my house after my mom passed away, even to the funeral director who delivered her ashes to me a few days after she "left"............. i certainly did display the "instrumental" griever facade. which was not totally a facade, it was something i'd adapted to in the face of my mom's illness, as her caregiver, while at the same time trying to deal with trying to get the household back on it's feet, get the bills paid, try and run my business with some semblance of professionalism, care for my pets, deal with the death of my favorite pet, deal with the doctors, nurses, techies, who visited my home to check on my mom, deal with the damage done to my moms brain and hence personality and short circuiting damage done by the 7 successive grand mal seizures she'd had that were the beginning of the end. i think you'll all agree i had an enormous amount of responsibility and *stuff* on my plate which all had to be dealt with more or less *now*, (at the same time). it was an adapted trait that i'd had to adapt in order to retain any semblance of sanity and competence. so when she passed, i displayed that "instrumental" face and behavior to a tee, and in a way, it served me extremely well. and in fact i displayed it for several months afterward, while dealing with the lawyer and settling her estate and trying to figure out so many things. only and i do mean only after things were settled, did the "intuitive" grief behavior kick in, and i suspect it was just waiting in the wings, and also, i was finally able to stop "orbiting" enough to actually let myself really grieve. and boy, did i fall apart!!! crying, screaming sometimes, almost hysterical, bouts of crying in betw. feeling actually rather ok and all of a sudden where did that come from falling apart. awful, just awful. in fact the other day my sister was emailing me about her ex-husband who's journey is upon him, and i asked her why does she never speak of our mother to me? her behavior is very extremely matter of fact, what's done is done, it's all water under the bridge, life goes on, blah blah blah. i really and truly could've gone off on her, (she used to call me "cold") and to me she is really cold about it all. but i looked at my mom's picture on my desk and realized, it's all personality differences. just because my sister is like that doesn't mean she may not truly be grieving inside, even if just a little bit. i cannot fathom behaving like that, but then, that's me. behavior like that it really hard to accept. i, like paul, would have been really upset about the cleaning out taking place so fast, the dust hadn't even had time to settle, your mother's essence wasn't even gone long enough to justify that. your sister was dealing with your mom's passing in a way that sort of went along the lines of "out of sight, out of mind" which seems to help a particular type of person deal with an event of such finality. i also think, maylissa, that your husband's comment about his world wouldn't be turned upside down should you leave b4 him......... he is not going to "allow" his world to be turned upside down....... inside, he may be falling apart, but he WILL NOT allow it to show. he's telling himself that, NOT YOU. he's telling himself that now, as a way of steeling himself, and in actuality, he doesn't know how he'll react. no one does. he may sound uncaring, but he's not. i understand totally where he's coming from because i am the same way. i've been told by so many people for years through diff. situations that i have a very strong personality and am a strong woman. that well may be folks, but inside, none of those people know how much i've cried inside about different things. but i will NOT allow it to show. it's not ego. it's about carrying on in the face of adversity. but in my privacy, i cry like a baby. i'm not ashamed either. i deserve to cry and let it out. dollars to donuts, should you pass b4 your hubby, he may not let it show and he may carry on with life magnificently, but he'll be mourning you inside and in his private time. don't take his comments personally. he's not talking to you........ he's trying to convince himself.

oh maylissa, reading that made me upset. you are living with that kind of uncertainty and doubt that just eats you up inside. and how can that aunt of yours say something like that to you??????? what with all you've been through, she DOES come out with some hurtful winners doesn't she? how the heck does your sanity stand it?

i don't know if this will help at all, but i have my moms picture in every room of the house, actually several pictures of her. they are all pre-sickness so she is looking real good, smiling happily, eyes twinkling. i talk to her all the time. i wished her a happy birthday when her birthday came around, and merry christmas, happy new year, happy valentines day. i have her ashes in my home, i crocheted a beautiful pink cover for the tine (she loved the color pink) in the curio cabinet with all of her pretty things and of course, pictures of her. i sprayed her perfume on the tin cover so i can "smell" how pretty my mom must be feeling now. every morning when i get up, i come out and say good morning to her and we 'chat' just for a bit. i keep her as alive as i can, for old times sake and for my sanity. God forbid, and i mean God FORBID, if someone should dare come in my home and tell me i "should be over it" or criticize me for having her pictures up, or for spraying her perfume or anything like that. so far no one has. i'll get my warrior woman hackles up in a bad way should someone ever tell me that or comment on any of that stuff. walk a mile in any of our shoes, us who have lost our moms or other dearly beloved, and then dare to say we 'should be over it'. no way.

marty is SO right. find a constructive way to channel your anger and your grief, but not in such a way that it puts you and others around you at risk or in harm's way. very difficult i know. all those feelings are what HAS to come out. you need to vent very unhealthy to hold it in or as she said, you'll explode like a volcano. clean, cook, do hobbies, cry and scream in your own house where you have privacy, but don't start throwing the china! find a new hobby or take up an old one. writing a diary has helped me alot also. oh i DO so feel for you having gone through this myself. it is the single hardest thing in the world to have to cope with, and it's like the sun has set on your life forever. but it hasn't.

geez i wish i had lost weight! it went the other way for me! about the cold feeling though, yes when i go through my crying jags, and lose alot of water through tears, i get so cold i'm shaking. literally shaking. i get hives. i get headaches, dizzy even have trouble swallowing. the upset combined with the general stress of the whole ordeal runs you down. this IMHO is exactly the time you MUST pull yourself up by the bootstraps and take care of your health. drink plenty of water to flush your system, take your vitamins, eat at least one good healthy meal a day, snack sensibly (baby carrots instead of chips) God i sound like my mom! LOL but it's true. take a walk in the park, get your sleep and make sure you have adequate down time to do a hobby you enjoy. your loved one would not want to see you end up in the hospital. i know my mom would be REALLY annoyed at me if i let that happen to myself all because she had to leave me to go on the next journey of her life. she always told me she'd worry that i wouldn't eat properly! it takes discipline but you absolutely must get back on track or you will get sick. the cold feeling is normal as stress lowers your metabolism. i was looking SO bad i looked started calling myself a ghost or corpse bride. so, i cut my hair, colored it because the roots were REALLY showing (i'm only 46 but my hair turned white/gray due to my ordeal with caring for my mom) so i put the red back in my hair (alright, burgundy, i 'fess up!) and every so often when i actually need to leave the house to go shopping or visit someone i put my eye makeup on. people told me i look much better and it took 20 yrs off my face (yeah right!) but it made me feel better. it all takes discipline but you absolutely must take care of yourself. if it wasn't for my work and my featherkidz, my life would've been over. so glad it all pulled me up.

hi gals, i'm back. i know i've been gone awhile. had a great deal of thinking to do, plus w*o*r*k, and i have to say, thank God for work. i had a couple of client websites to design, shopping carts to set up, and i was SO busy i hardly had time to think! besides keeping the roof over my head, work is good because it indulges creativity and that is always good. i was reading some prior posts here under this thread. i never travel either. who's gonna take care of my feather kids? Besides, Snugglebuggy is so old now, he'd cry for mommy anyways. the new kids, Maylissa, are Miss Beadie Baby (a little girl cockatiel who just turned 1 in September '05) and Violette Peroquette (a violet parakeet) who turned out to be a boy not a girl. but he likes his name so i leave it!!! i got him for us for Christmas. the other two just LOVE him! this week we are bird sitting for a friend's parakeet, Rudy. they are in the bedroom now socializing, sleeping, yakking, you name it. what fun! i love them. i've done alot of thinking and you are right Maylissa, the more you think sometimes the more pain you bring on. but i'm kind of a warrior woman in that sense, i prefer things straightforward and out in the open, hate living behind rose colored glasses or behind a smokescreen of only comfortable thoughts so i can avoid all the other stuff. So i did alot of thinking and my doubts, fears and reservations about alot of things that went on are out in the open where i can see them and deal with them head on. you cannot have healing if you don't have pain first. i'm actually doing better because of it. but i understand that is NOT for everyone. you know, now my sister that i spoke of has the same thing going on in her life, not exact but close. her son is actually having to deal with the decisions and pain very much up front. her ex-husband, with whom she remained friends, had a very deadly strep infection in his blood and didn't know it. he collapsed and his girlfriend rushed him to the hospital. this was on feb. 2 just a few weeks ago. his fever was 104.7, he coded blue, they brought him back after 20 minutes, can you believe 20 minutes, rushed him to another hospital, he suffered cardiac arrest, coded blue again, they brought him back after ANOTHER 20 minutes. needless to say, Steve has never woken up, he has suffered major brain damage, eyes and pupils respond to no stimuli whatsoever, his liver and kidneys and now a lung are compromised, and just a day or so ago his son was with the Hospice people, and signed the DNR form. his dad is being moved to a short term hospice with just a ventilator to help him breathe and a feeding tube in the stomach. from what i gather, not directly but reading betw. the lines of the emails, his son is considering removing life support. which i applaud. there's a long history betw. my sister and me, not pleasant, but my BIL has always been kind and courteous to me. when my mom was home sick here, he came with my sister every so often, was always kind and courteous to my mom, very very nice to me, and became extremely fond of Snugglebuggy (the two big boys got along just great) he'd play with him and everything. i showed Snuggle my BIL picture and told him that his buddy was not gonna come back and play with him anymore. Snugs looked at me with knowledge in his eyes, and looked up, and i told him yes, his friend was going to go "up" and be with his sister Miss Pea and with his Grandma, (my mom). Snugs cried a little bit. he understands "up". and then he was ok. flip side, my sister is very grateful for my prayers and all, no doubt, but now she is patting herself on the back for being the strong one, for helping everyone get past everything, and all that jazz. i'm sure in her mind she is, but she just doesn't see that it is not about her. she never misses a chance to say what wonderful deeds she does for other folks. humility is not her style........ isn't it nicer to be humble and let other people tell you that you've done a good job rather than singing your own praises? it makes me grit my teeth but you know, i guess due to the thinking i've been doing, i'm gonna let it go. i will never forget a great many things she's done that were hurtful with me taking care of my mom, like "oh just put her in a nursing home and get on with your life", and many other things. but i'm gonna be the bigger person and not mention it, and just let it go. i'm satisfied with what i did, i'm very happy that i did NOT put myself first, but instead put my mom first, especially at a time when no one else was willing to and she desperately needed it. no, my behavior wasn't perfect, i got frustrated and i should have handled some things better. but at least i didn't abandon her and never once, now matter how tough it got here, did i ever even lift up the phone to call a nursing home. mom wanted to die here in her own home, and i gave her that. so now i need to evolve as a person and hopefully the Lord will forgive me my faults, and i need to make a serious effort to accept how my sister is, zip my lips and be the bigger person. i thinking i might be moving on to the next phase of grief which may be acceptance of what i cannot change, gratitude for my mother's peace, best wishes for my BIL's coming peace, and move on as my own human being. what do you all think?