Raindrop

As most of us are aware, holidays (and other special occasions) are difficult to go through after the death of a loved one. I'm assuming there are probably already 500,000 million threads in this forum about this topic. I'm sorry to start yet another one, but I'm not in the mood to look for older ones to post to. The saddest thing about today (Thanksgiving holiday) is that I'm alone. (I'll probably be alone on Christmas Day too.) My first Thanksgiving here (I moved to this city a bit over two years ago - I did not want to, it's a long story), a few distant family invited me over for the holiday, but this year, nothing. And all these family members know I have never married, I've never had kids, and I don't know anyone here. Not a single one extended an invitation this year. Not even any phone calls or e-mails wishing me a happy Thanksgiving. It's hard enough getting through holidays without my loved one being around, but to be overlooked and forgotten by living family at these times makes it more painful and lonely. If anyone else would like to use this thread to post about their holiday experience in light of their loss, that's fine. We don't have to keep it only about me and my experience. This is one crummy Thanksgiving today (I don't even have any turkey), and I'm guessing Christmas is going to be just as bad. BTW, since my mother died, I really hate Mother's Day (which falls in May, I think).

Babypod, I sent an e-mail to your e-mail address (that begins with the first four letters "shad") from one of my Yahoo e-mail accounts on August 8th of this year. I never got a reply to that e-mail. Did you receive that e-mail, or read it? I wish your husband was more sensitive to what you're going through and how you're coping with it. No, you're not nuts. My mom, who died over 2 1/2 years ago, used to "talk to" her Mom who had died in the late '90s or early '00s. My mom had a photo of Grandmother in the den on an end table, and she would tell her "good night, love you" before turning the light out to go to bed. My Mom knew it was just a photo, but it brought her comfort to talk to Grandmother in the photo like that. I don't talk to my Mom or to her photos or anything. I do have small photos of her around my room (where I spent a lot of time). I have little things, trinkets and such, she gave me that mean a lot, where I can see them, like a hand written note she made me when I was a kid going through a tough time. I have that propped up where I can see it if I'm sitting on my bed. As for the discussion above by other people concerning the phrase "letting to." If I ever use that phrase, particularly in the context of grieving the death of a loved one, I don't mean to say you have to forget about your loved one. When I use that phrase (but especially when a person is going through something that is NOT the death of a loved one), I usually mean to say more along the lines of (for your own sake) moving past the pain and living life in the here and now. I come across a lot of people who remain bitter, angry, or hurting over some mean or insensitive thing someone did or said to them five, ten, or twenty years ago, and they do not want to release those negative emotions, they want to keep rehashing the past, which prevents them from enjoying life now, and they don't seem to realize that or how damaging it is for them. I was trying to get those point across (only to be helpful) on another forum I participate on, regarding a woman who is still hurting, and a little miffed, at a friend who treated her badly, or cut her out of her life, about four years ago. (Her friend is still living, so this is not a case of grieving.) Unfortunately, many of the other people at that other forum took my insight the wrong way and felt I was being cruel, heartless, or judgmental. Some of the people on that other forum actually said they think loss of a friendship (with a friend who is still living) is 'worse' than death of a loved one, a view that I thought was astounding and rather repulsive. ('Loss of friendship' on the other forum is not about death of a friend. They are talking about situations like when you get into a bad fight with your friend and you part ways. Or, when your friend (who is still living) decides to stop having anything to do with you at all, and does not give a reason.) One can always make a new friend, or possibly make amends with the old one you had a fight with, but you cannot get a new grandmother or mother (or whomever you lost to death). One situation is permanent (death), the other is not (end of friendship - you can always make a new friend or make up with the old one). One type of relationship is basically replaceable (friendship) the other (family member) is not. But anyway, if I ever happen to use the phrase "letting go" (or "moving on" or something similar) at this board, I hope nobody here takes it the wrong way. It's certainly not my intent to hurt anyone's feelings, especially someone who is still coping with grief.

Thank you for the links, and I did look at the one thread. As I was saying to her in my last post, I was not discouraging her altogether from trying grief groups, I was only giving a word of caution about sharing. You simply cannot trust everyone out there, whether they are in groups or not. Some people are dishonest and users, and they actively seek out vulnerable people to take advantage of and to abuse physically, emotionally, and / or financially. Still other people, when you open up to them and tell them your personal problems, believe this entitles them, and gives them a right, to pass judgment on you, or to be critical of you. Those are the dangers you risk when you open up to people and tell them about your problems and pain, whether in a group setting, or one-on-one. I wish everyone out there was loving, altruistic, supportive, empathetic, and genuinely caring when you tell them about your problems or your grief, but sadly, that is not the reality most of the time. But if she thinks a grief support group might work for her, she really should give it a try. If it does not work out, she can always leave.

I've always been introverted and extremely shy, so I've never felt comfortable opening up to people, especially ones I don't know (at least in person; I feel more secure in opening up to strangers on the internet). I'm not against group therapy. Do consider joining a grief support group if you think it might help you (there are free ones that meet in churches around the country, for example), but I'd also caution people about this kind of thing. I was a very codependent person for most of my life, which means I was a door mat, I allowed other people to take advantage of me, I was afraid to say "no" to people, and to stand up for myself. It was very easy for mean or abusive people to take advantage of me. The problem is, if you're a super nice, trusting person and you reveal too much about yourself to people you don't know very well, you open yourself up to being taken advantage of by con artists, the users, emotionally abusive types, and manipulators. There are, I am sad to say, people out there who prey on weak, hurting, sensitive, very nice, vulnerable people, so you have to be really careful how much of yourself you share with other people. If you do join a group of any sort, (or just open up to a new person outside a group setting), be careful what you share with them, and how much you share, and how fast. Not everyone out there has your best interest at heart. Some people are dishonest and looking to rip you off in one fashion or another. At the very least... I did not realize this until after my mother died, but when I tried talking to other people about how much pain I was in because I missed my Mom, lots of other people (even my fellow Christians, shockingly) view that sort of openness as an excuse, or opportunity, to judge you and criticize you. A lot of people think that if you open up to them and share your most intimate secrets, pain, etc. with them, that this entitles them to give you advice, tell you how to live your life, or to judge you. And I don't think there are very many things more painful in life than opening up to a person (especially one you've not known long), looking for support / encouragement/ compassion, but instead you get betrayed by being criticized or judged. I've had that happen more often than not since my Mom died. When I've tried sharing with new people (or even a few I've known for years) about how much I hurt, they have criticized me, or coldly dismissed me, by telling me to "stop thinking about yourself so much!" (in a nasty tone of voice), and "go volunteer at a soup kitchen," etc, and similar things. Most people have not been willing to simply sit and listen to me talk about what I'm going through, to put their arm around me as I cry, and just tell me they love me. So think long and hard before you join support groups, or before you open up to others about what you're going through, because there is a danger and a possibility that they will use that as an excuse to insult you, give you advice, or to judge you. I don't know why people do that, but they do - and I think it's disgusting. I've never done that myself when friends/family approached me hurting and wanting compassion, so I'm even more puzzled why other people do it to me or to others. But they do it. So the next time you open up to someone else and tell them the pain you're in, do prepare yourself to receive less than loving and compassionate replies. You said, There is nothing rude or wrong with politely or firmly speaking up and telling people when something they say something that hurts, angers, annoys, or bothers you. It's okay (and not rude) to tell someone plainly, "That comment you made bothered me/ offended me/ hurt me." When you are honest with people that something they've done or said upset you, yes, they might get hurt, defensive, or angry about it, but their reaction is not your responsibility. There is absolutely nothing wrong or rude with telling people (and educating them to boot, by saying something like), "I appreciate your concern, but you do realize that most people take two years, or sometimes longer, to recover from grief, so to ask me only two weeks/months later, 'are you okay, are you better yet' is very premature, and it actually makes me feel worse." (You could also then tell them what they CAN do or say to help you with your grief, such as, "It would really help me if instead of saying, "Are you okay yet," if you would take me out to lunch once a week and just let me talk about my dad, without passing judgment or giving advice, just listen to me talk about my grief." ) You don't have to be mean, rude, use insults, or use vulgar language when confronting people and telling them their words or actions bother you. You said, To care too much about what others think about you or your life, and building your life around their opinions, expectations, or fear of angering them or hurting them, is a sign of codependency, and that is not healthy for you. You might want to see this page: 52 Traits of a Chronic People Pleaser (Codependent) If you recognize yourself on that list of 52 traits, you might want to consider reading books about how to overcome codependency ('people pleasing'), and there are many free, online articles with advice, such as 21 Tips To Stop Being a People Pleaser

I'm kind of hesitant to even say this, because there's a woman at another web site (with a forum) who hates my guts, any time I try to help other people, this annoys her totally, as she misconstrues my actions to mean she thinks I'm being bossy, or trying to act like I own the forum. But what I'm saying next is meant to be helpful and constructive, not mean, bossy, or nit picky. Here it is: I think you might get more replies to your post about your problems with your boyfriend if it were in the forum about Relationship problems (it's called "Loss of a Love Relationship" forum)? Anyway... You're still very young, and you won't necessarily end up marrying, or staying with, a guy you began dating when you were 18. Maybe all the stress he's been under lately is why he's acting like how he's acting, he's had a lot on his plate lately, and you've also been through a lot. I can't tell you if you should stay with the guy or not, only you can make that decision. One thing that helped me was a book I read many years ago when I was dating a guy and didn't know if I should break up with him, and the author said, "When you want out of the relationship more than you want to stay in it, it's probably time to leave." Most people are not 100% evil or bad, so yes, your boyfriend is gong to have SOME good traits. However, if it gets to the point that his one bad quality is something you feel you cannot endure, or it's a deal breaker, then that one negative trait out-weighs his 99 good traits. So that book I read by a therapist who specializes in relationships suggested that was one criteria you could use to determine if you want to work on the relationship or call it quits. On the other hand, other experts (about grief) will tell you to refrain from making any major life decisions within the first year after a death, because you're not your normal you, and your decision-making capabilities are not good, since they are clouded by grief. So you might want to wait at least a year after your father's passing and see how you feel about your BF then, or to see if your BF becomes more sensitive to your needs.

Spika, thanks so much for your kind words. I am so sorry to hear of your loss as well. 49 is very young, too. I'm sorry I can't type more at the moment, but I need to get to bed soon. I've stayed up far too late as it is. I wanted to share this link with people here - this fits into my thread's theme about people not being willing to offer support, or just refusing (I have not even gotten around yet to making a thread about people who flat out acted like total jerks): Grieving mother is told to stop talking about her dead child at work because it's distracting (from a British paper) As long as the woman was getting her job done, IMO, they were wrong to reprimand her over it. Maybe the company could have offered to pay to get her therapy or something, but it seems to me just telling her to shut up about the death was a bit harsh. I will not paste in the entire article, just a few parts: Please use this link to read the rest: Grieving mother is told to stop talking about her dead child at work because it's distracting (from a British paper)

Thanks for your response, Daphne, and no, you're not alone. If you look at the older threads on this forum, you'll find conversations by other people who have been in the same situation too, who are not getting any support (or not nearly enough) after their losses. You said, I know exactly what you mean. I've had that happen to me. Usually, people who have been through a death know what to say and how to behave, but strangely enough, I've met a few who are just as rude and insensitive as those who have not been through a loss. I've been intending on writing a new post with stories of some of the rude comments and such I've received from people after my mother died. One of those stories involves this older woman in her mid 60s who I met at one church I went to for a few months. The mid 60s woman I met at a church - her mother died about three or four years before my Mom did. I thought because this woman also experienced the loss of her mother, she would, of all people, know how to treat me, but I was so wrong. She went on to say judgmental things and really hurt me, issue me cliches, etc. I was shocked that someone more than 20 years older than me, who also lost her Mom, would act so insensitive to me and after I had opened up to her and told her all my deeply personal problems, including how my Mom's death had affected me. So there are definitely "odd balls" out there who have been through a death just like we have- But all the same, they extend no sympathy or compassion to others who are in grief, or they make the same exact stupid blunders (offer us platitudes, etc) that those who haven't gone through a loss tend to make. You said, I've given up trying to understand why people do what they do and what motivates them. It's a mystery. Instead of wasting my time trying to figure out why others do what they do, I just try to pick up the pieces and move on with life. I do think some motives of some people are clear - some people are simply lazy, selfish, or self absorbed. They'd rather focus on their problems and their lives then listen to you talk about yours. I think we waste too much energy trying to understand why people act the way they do. People are complicated and can have any number of reasons why they do what they do. I find it better to stop pondering on why people act as they do and focus on getting better. I do like venting and ranting about it, though, that is one thing that has helped me come to terms with people's self absorbed actions. You said, I suppose that can be true at times. In my specific case, however, I have bluntly told some people around me I am not doing well, I am missing my mother, and I could use a phone call from them every so often.... But they still avoid or ignore me, they will not phone me (unless they phone me up to complain at me about their jobs, their lives, etc.) You said, That was me who said that. Not getting the support and compassion I needed after Mom died, even after I begged extended family for it, has made me tougher and less willing to extend compassion to other people, at least people in my life who I know directly. (I am more willing to extend compassion to people here on this board who write about the pain they're going through.) But for many other people, my view became, "I had to tough out my loss all on my own, I had nobody to help me through it, even though I asked them for help, so you'll have to suck up your loss and deal with it by yourself too, don't come looking to me for compassion." Maybe that is not a good or nice thing for me to feel or think, but it is an honest reaction/ emotion I've been having the past few years since my Mom died. (I'm not going to pretend that I'm happy to sit around and confer compassion on other hurting people I know personally, when I've had little shown to me when I really, really needed it.) I am sorry for you losses, both parents, and the stress you endured with your husband being sick. That is a lot to take on and live through.

That is a good response, and while I do believe it's important to respect the person's choice... Well, even before my mother died, I had clinical depression. I did not want to go out anywhere. Anytime my (now ex) fiance would ask "Do you want to go out?," I would always say "No." When he was more insistent about it, or made it sound like it would be all kinds of fun, I would only then decide, "well okay, I'll give it a try," and sure enough, getting out did me some good. If it had been solely left up to me, I would've spent 100% of my time in bed with the sheets pulled up over my head. I'm afraid if the original poster's ("Word Are Me's") girlfriend is like I was, her choice will always, always be to stay at home and never, ever get out at all. I do think there is a time and place to gently push someone into living life again, but it might depend on other factors, like how long she's been grieving, etc. I think you have to take it on a case by case basis. You obviously would not want to push someone (who is grieving) too hard too quick, for example.

Thanks for the reply, KBP. They're just being jerks. Please, no need to give them the benefit of the doubt or make excuses for them. I haven't yet made a post about it but planned to. One of my siblings, whom I did not provoke, spent the first two years after Mom died emotionally and verbally abusing me. Other family, even after I told then I could really use their emotional support, would they please phone me once every three months, never did call or write (in over two years). These are people age 50 or older who are retired, in great health, not going through any tragedies themselves, they have plenty of free time. They have no good reason for blowing me off. They are just lazy, too ignorant, insensitive or self absorbed to realize, or care, or even notice, I could really use their support, even after I brought it to their attention. But they still want me to look at 600 million photos of their grand kids on Facebook or in person on occasions when they do see me, or they want me to listen to all the adorable things their grand kids did last week. I don't think so. If you're not going to ask me how I'm doing once in a while and coldly blow me off in my time of need, I don't very much care to know what your grand kids are doing. You said, I'm glad the people at your new church are more responsive to your needs.

"People pleasing" is referred to by counselors as codependency. There are many symptoms of it. One of which is that one person becomes too emotionally dependent on another person, or the other person becomes the center of their universe. I'm not a great fan of the book "Boundaries" by authors Townsend and Cloud, but any of you who have problems with people pleasing might want to read that for help on how to stop looking to other people too much to get fulfillment and all your needs met. (Other people will always fail you, because they are flawed - and of course, they sometimes leave you due to death, or whatever other reasons). That Boundaries book, and ones like it, and any number of free online articles (such as this one), will also help you learn to be assertive and stop allowing other people to walk all over you. For those of you who had to be around your dying loved one 'round the clock (because you were the sole caretaker), I realize that's another issue altogether, you can't help but get wrapped up. I was talking about other kinds of relationships, though. Someone up above mentioned that volunteering did not cheer her up or help her. Thank you! I related to that. I've tried volunteering myself, and I hated it. I've never been a "people person." I'm introverted and get panic attacks when having to meet new people. I am a Christian, but I am so sick and tired of other Christians who pop off the tired cliches at me when I tell them I'm hurting, (such as, "Think about other people more!," "Volunteer at homeless shelters, and you'll feel better," "You're thinking too much about yourself, think about serving others and God more!," etc. I feel like hitting those people. They think they're helping, but they're being obnoxious.) :angry2: Someone said, I'd rather be in that stage of grief again, personally. For me, the first six months after Mom died, I felt numb (like I was in a fog, like it wasn't really happening, it was just a bad dream I'd awaken from). After the first 6 months, that was when the sheer pain kicked in, I felt like I had a knife stabbing me in my heart, and I'd curl up in a ball on the bedroom floor and sob. I think I preferred the "Numb" phase to that one.

I'm sorry for your loss. I've never been married, I'm over 35 years old, and my mother died over two years ago; she was my best friend. People in my family refuse to be there for me, and one was emotionally abusive, for up to a year and a half to 2 years after my Mom's passing. I've had well meaning people, like people at one church I went to, make judgmental and insensitive comments when I informed them of my loss, and that I was struggling to deal with it. I've had to get through her death all by myself. The bottom line is, we really don't have a choice but to move forward. You give yourself time to mourn and cry, but after so much time, you have to make a decision to move on. It's either force yourself to pick up the pieces and continue with life, or remain stuck in the pain - and that's no way to live. If you find yourself depressed for months on end, you might wish to consider seeing a psychiatrist, explain your situation to him/her and request to give anti depressant medication a try. You mentioned that you have step kids? I don't know what their ages are, but if you have ANYONE who can look after them for a few weeks or months while you just sit around and grieve, I would definitely try that. I don't know how you're going to heal and process the death if you're also running around acting as parent to kids. Unless these kids are old enough to fix meals for themselves, do their own laundry, etc?

RE: "Is My Girlfriend Gonna Leave Me Because Her Mom Died?" Nobody here can answer that; we don't know. You said, That's because there is nothing you can say to "make it better." Too often, well meaning family and friends approach the grieving person as though their grief is something that needs to be fixed or eradicated. Grief is something that has to be worked through, it cannot be cured, avoided, fixed, or rushed. For many people who have lost a loved one, the first two years are the hardest. If you try to "fix" her grief, you may unintentionally slow the healing process down for her, by creating more obstacles for her to overcome. Sometimes, in a clumsy attempt to "help" the grieving person, the friend or family member will give unsolicited advice, (such as recommend that the person get out of the house more,get a job, or volunteer at homeless shelters.) All of that can hurt the person; it's best to resist the temptation to give them advice. If you truly feel your grieving girlfriend will feel better if she gets out of the house more often, instead of bluntly telling her that, come up to her and say something like, "Hey, I'd like to take you to the movies today," (or suggest whatever activity she likes to do that will get her out of the house). -You just invite her out; just do it. Do not make comments such as, "You are moping around too much, you need to get out," or, "You'd feel better if you'd just go out more." -All of that is judgmental, and again, it's giving advice. Hurting, grieving people do not want or need advice, judgement, tips, or pointers, or made to feel that their way of handling the loss is wrong. The best thing you can do for a grieving person is listen to her talk about her feelings, her deceased loved one, for however long she wants to - and do not interrupt, just listen. And while she's talking to you about the loss of her mother, resist the urge to give advice, platitudes, or tell her what you think she "should" or "ought" to feel. The only kind of comments that are safe and helpful to interject as you're listening to her are EMPATHETIC ones, such as, "I can only imagine how painful that was," or "I'm sorry you're hurting," "I know it must be hard for your Mom to be gone." You can admit to her, "I want to comfort you, but I don't know how, but I will be happy to listen to you any time you want to talk about your Mom." Be aware that not all grieving people want to talk about their loss, however - but I think most do. If she does not want to discuss her mother's death or its impact on her, I am sure she will let you know that. There are many online articles that have excellent advice you can follow such as- Supporting a Grieving Person What not to say to a grieving person How to Help a Grieving Friend

Thank you for the offer. I would feel kind of strange calling someone I just met online. I just called one internet friend for the first time about two weeks ago, and she I have known each other over the internet for over six years!

Thanks for the post, keyboardplayer. You said, I was at another forum where some of the people were talking about how technology has changed things, not just in regards to that, but just in day-to-day relationships, and I wonder if that's part of the problem too. People used to visit each other face-to-face or phone each other, but now, a lot of people have substituted more impersonal communication, such as e-mails, texting, and social networking sites. I'm not against those things (I use some of them myself at times). I think they have their place, but I think a lot of people find it easier to ignore you during your time of grief, or only give you token attention, if they fire off a quick e-mail or click the "like" link on some post you make on Facebook. I think when you are seriously hurting, you need way, way more comfort and interaction than a quick e-mail or whatever can provide. But many people are rats and take the easy way out. Instead of phoning you up, or visiting, and letting you pour your heart out for a couple of hours about your loss... They weasel out of their friendship duties by shooting off a quick e-mail, or hitting the "like" link when you post on your Facebook wall, if you post about missing your deceased loved one or something. I guess they assume such shallow action on their part fulfills their obligation at being a good friend, showing sympathy, and really helping you through the loss - and they'd be wrong about that. You said, I'm very sorry your church group was not there for you. I think that is inexcusable. The Scriptures tell us we are to weep with those who are weeping. I am trying to get over the hurt and disappointment at how other Christians have failed me in this area (I happen to be a Christian myself). I've had some Christians (people who attend church weekly) who ignore me, and others (even those who knew how vulnerable I was) pass judgment on me and yell at me (and I did nothing to deserve getting yelled at, it's a rather long story I will skip for now). I need their love, time, encouragement, and support - instead I got criticism and condemnation, or just totally ignored. You said, So far, I've been fortunate not to have anyone actually tell me to my face (or the phone) that I need to hurry up and "get over" my mother's death. I have read a lot of other people at this site and other sites mention they've been subjected to that view or comment, though. I did get an e-mail from an online grief program I signed up for last year (an e-mail which they send out every day to anyone who signs up for it) telling me that I need to get over the death after a year or two. That e-mail made me very angry. (That e-mail also totally contradicted their previous e-mails where they told grieving people things such as, "take as long as you need to grieve, and do not allow anyone to hurry you through the grieving process.")

Some of you may have already seen this article advising people on how best to help a friend who is in mourning. In the article, the authors interviewed people who have recently lost someone to death and asked for their experiences and input. Above in this thread, one thing I mentioned that drives me nuts and that I deeply resent, are people who won't let me talk to them or cry on their shoulder about how much I miss my mother (who died over two years ago), and yet... They still e-mail or phone me to cry or complain about the most trivial, mundane things, (like they chipped their nail polish, or their dentist told them they have a cavity). (To be honest, though, I'm even annoyed about more serious issues my friends come to me wanting to be consoled over, like one who quit her job and was fretting she could not get employment again. Sorry, but that still pales in comparison to me coping with the loss of my mother. This was also a friend who had not really been there for me as much as she could have.) So when I got to this quote in the article, I totally related: Can you imagine you're at your loved one's wake or funeral and your idiot family member or friend has the audacity to complain about how bad things (her car breaking down?!) keep happening to her? The funeral (or wake) is about your family member who is hurting and her loss, and the one who died - it's not about you or your problems. I've had things like that happen to me since my Mom died (even in the few months following her death). How can people be so oblivious, careless, self absorbed, and clueless? When someone's loved one just died, they really don't care about your petty concerns. Put your own lousy problems aside for just two hours a month for a few months to let your grieving friend cry, rant, or talk about what they're going through. It's very insulting to bring your trivial annoyances up, especially if you are not acting as a sounding board for the grieving person in return for all the listening they have provided for you and continue to provide you. You expect them to take your monotonous, three hour long angry or depressing phone calls where you rant and cry about mundane issues or how frustrated you are by life, your job, or your boyfriend, or the price of bananas these days.... But you quickly find an excuse to hang up when they try to talk about how much they miss their deceased family member. People really disgust me at times.