Miss Ngu

Thanks, as always, for your reply, Kay. I will(!) make sure to be specific regarding leaving any heirlooms. My Dad, at 88, was my longest-living family member, by far, as most passed in their late 70’s/early 80’s. I keep remembering my time really is limited, and to enjoy what I can.

Might as well write an update: While I still can't say that life is as sweet as when my dearly departed parents and grandma were here on the planet... I am no longer estranged from my sister and her family. It's nice to be back in each others' lives, but I will always be cautious of their ability to cancel people out of their lives so easily! My husband's 94 year old father passed away in April. We are now parentless on both sides. My husband and I have no children, and have recently decided to create a Will (if we pass at the same time)... leaving what we own to our siblings (my sister...and his 3 siblings). Don't know how this will(!) work out, but, we wouldn't be here to truly sort it all out anyway. Feeling stressed about our future, praying that we stay healthy and that we don't linger long prior to our passing...as not to be such a money and time burden on the other. So many intense thoughts about dying -- when that time comes. I know, I know...we are living NOW -- so -- be here NOW! Enjoy all you can -- NOW... and... we do our best day-to-day, I think. I'm 62 this year, and am completely Thankful for the strength and Love that my Dear Parents and Mom-Mom instilled in me... Life is tough... Keep living and going...until they come for me.

Thank you, Marty, as always, for your help and insight. Yes, my in-laws were no longer interested in, or able to, really eat or drink. Hard to not have IV bags of fluids hooked-up, but we realize this goes against the process. Your words have helped both of us better understand the different levels of health/ability and care.

So… both of my in-laws passed away in different hospice facilities at different times in S. California. They received no food or water of any kind, just getting pain medications, and they passed within a week. Former President Jimmy Carter is in Hospice care (in a different State, I know), AND hospice care NOT palliative care is what has been told he is receiving. He has been in this care for months now, so he must be receiving some food and water (although maybe no meds … other than for pain?). I, in no way, begrudge him his wonderful life, but my husband and I are confused by this. Is Hospice care done differently in different states?

Thank you, Marty for your reply. Your words and knowledge mean the world to me, and I am honored that you shared your Dear Father’s words with me. Thank you for the wealth of resources that you provided, and always provide. I will continue to learn and prepare... while not obsessing. Your discussion groups have been a lifeline for me for the past 10 years, helping me through so much by writing and organizing my thoughts, and reading what others have gone through, as my life is now progressing with the undercurrent of grief. Mostly, I feel safe knowing you are monitoring the content...and it looks like you were acknowledged for this! Congratulations... and Thank You.

Thank you, Kay, for your always thoughtful and helpful response. Knowing you understand what I am feeling means a lot! You did experience some of my fears, but also reminded me that there are positive experiences that can also be unexpected and unplanned for (if I can stay open and not get too entrenched in the upset). I appreciate your offer of the free e-book, but don’t know how to message you my email address privately. Please advise. It’s comforting knowing you are here... and I am thankful.

After living through the decline, death and grief for most of my closest and dearest family members, I now feel left with fear and worry about what the future holds, for me, and my husband. My husband's dearly departed Mom passed from Alzheimer's, and lately he has been telling me of some of his memory concerns. When I downplay his "symptoms", attributing them to aging, he tells me not to. He says he will go to the doctor if we see it getting worse. I worry that I will lose him and he will lose himself! I will be 60 years old this year, and my dearly departed Mom is gone 10 years on May 12th, so maybe I'm just extra keyed-up. I know I am projecting into unknown future events, but I really feel overwhelmed by these thoughts. Aging and dying ... will we become incapacitated? Will we have money to live if one of us has to be hospitalized or put into a care home? Will my husband's behavior change towards me? I already see that he is a bit more snappy with me. We have no children ... who will help us? So many scenarios go through my mind. I live and and enjoy life day-by-day, and moment-by-moment, but want to make sure I also am ready for what the future may hold. So hard being on the planet without my Dear Parents, Brother, and Grandmother. I know their Spirits guide me, and my fears are just thoughts... and none may even happen. Anyone else experiencing this?

Kieron – Thank you for your response – I appreciate it. My Dear Dad passed away August, 2019 – so I’m coming up on my first Father’s Day without him on the planet. Sadly, my kidney stone event at the hospital in January, 2020, had me in the same cat scan room where I last saw my Dad alive. The attendants gave me a few moments to cry my eyes out, once I told them this. It was a good release. It is a shame that doctors can’t actually use all of the medications at their discretion, but it is such a dirty feeling when their attitude toward you becomes suspicious and judgmental. Kay – I’m always thankful to receive your kind and comforting words. Yes, this doctor went overboard, but I have had this happen to me before. Sometimes I think I should go to my doctor visits with my husband to have an advocate with me, but the Covid-19 virus would only let me in to the office anyway. I will be changing doctors, and finding a new practice to go to. Question is: do I even ask for this medication again? I would only want, like 2 pills, and that would probably last me a year. Like I said, I feel safer just having them in my purse, if need be. Not many doctors taking new patients, where I live. Maybe I just shouldn’t ask for anything like this, as I simply hate the way the doctor changes his/her view of me – or, if it’s not me – just the asking at all. Marty – That you are here, offering this space on how to live with grief, is a safety net to soothe my very raw soul, and I thank you, always. Doctors I have seen are more than willing to offer me an anti-depressant, but it seems to stop there. Maybe I will ask my next doctor what he/she recommends for anxiety instead of just ask for xanax (although I know it is the drug that works for me). My Dear Brother died of a drug overdose… and I never wanted to take drugs because of what I saw happen to him. He couldn’t get enough. I know my 2 pills is nothing compared to this, but impossible to convince a doctor. Also…I keep thinking that if I were at the hospital when my Dear Dad was becoming overly agitated, I would have insisted they give him something like xanax to calm him down. Even this would’ve probably been a fight, but maybe he would’ve… Yeah…I know! Stop going here. Doctors are more afraid of creating drug addicts than giving out anything that they’d probably easily order for themselves or their family members. Sorry if I sound cynical – but I think I may be realistic. So…ask for what I want? Ask for what they offer? Don’t ask at all. Have a drink instead… And keep writing it out…and getting help here at this forum of healing, awareness, community, and enlightenment. Thanks again!

Oh ... the kidney stone panic attack happened because I knew I would be returning to the hospital where my Dad has just passed away a few months prior. It was all very overwhelming.

I had a few panic attacks that became scarily debilitating when my Dad passed away. My sister gave me a half of a 5mg xanax during one of these frightening episodes, and I could feel my body calm down, and help me continue with the daunting tasks of arranging for his funeral and cleaning out his apartment. I told my hospice grief counselor this, and she said that I should ask my doctor for a few xanax, instead of taking pills from my sister. So, I asked my doctor (who has been my doctor for a few years) for a few xanax. I told her it seems to help me to just know I have something to calm me down in my purse, even if I never actually take it – but I know I HAVE it on me. And, when I truly need it, I will only take a half of a pill, as I am not one who enjoys feeling “out of it”. My doctor’s whole energy toward me seemed to change once I asked. She told me just to want it in my purse is like an addiction. I was pretty put-off by this, and told her that my hospice counselor told me to ask for them in this situational basis. My doctor finally agreed to 2 pills, and told me that I would need to take a drug test on my follow-up visit in 6 months. Seemed extreme for 2 pills, and was she checking to see that there was none of the drug in my urine – or that it WAS in my urine? It was 2 pills for a potential panic attack. So, when I went for my 6 month visit, I was told to fill out a mental health form and take the pee test. Ok, now I really do feel like an addict, and worse than before – adding this to my grief, panic, and upset. I still have 1 ½ pills left (as I took a half of a pill when I was passing a kidney stone earlier in the year – and panicking), and wasn't asking for any more pills. I know people can get addicted, but if few pills are given, and the patient needs to come back for more, and is closely watched, what’s the deal? Isn’t this what a doctor is for?

Thank you, Kay, as always, for your understanding words and comfort. Please accept my condolences for the loss of your dear companion, Arlie. There is nothing like the pure love of our furry friends. Although, there will never be another Arlie, I hope your new puppy brings you many smiles. What you wrote to me reminds me of something my dearly departed Mom used to say. After many, many years of her depression, she "decided" to be happy. And, for the most part, she accomplished this. Positive self-talk sure combats my inner, self-loathing negative talk, but, you're right, I need to consciously STOP, and be more gentle and kind to myself - like I would to a friend - not negating how I am feeling (anxious, depressed, etc.), but just accepting that it is what it is, and that I won't always feel this horrible - and to remember to look for the glimmer of something positive. I can't allow my life to spiral down into hopelessness. With appreciation to you, Marty, and this group...

Well...here it is...my Dearly departed Dad's birthday is coming up this week, and he is gone...Also struggling with the 12th anniversary of my brother's passing a week later...And then onto the 1st anniversary of my nephew-in-law's passing next month. I know that, in time, this deep pain will subside, and that the first year of these "occasions" can feel the hardest. Still, I am a little concerned for the state of my mental and physical health. My blood pressure is a little higher than I would like (as is my stress level), and I worry that my "will to live" and to "help other's live" isn't what it once was. I am so much more fearful for my future than I have ever been...but try to stay healthy, flexible, and able while getting older. I know my thoughts are just fears, and that I need to take life one day at a time, and that my imagination is worse than reality... But...is it? As much as I pray, meditate, dance, sing, eat, read, learn, and live, I can't really say that there is any real comfort in my life since my parents and grandmother have passed on. My husband is sweet and wonderful, and I am so Thankful for him... but there is a different level of alone-ness that I think I just need to get used to. I lived on my own at different times in my life, but this feels different. There is nowhere and no one to turn to, as this journey of my fears seems to be mine -- alone (and always with my Higher Power). Friends and family come and go. Loved ones die. Facts of life. Gotta keep living, somehow. With JOY! Stay positive. It's a Blessing to be on this Earth. I know all of this, and yet the pain is so deep and heart-wrenching! Sometimes I feel I shouldn't write in this wonderful online group, because I want anyone who happens to read this, to have hope through their dark feelings, and to stay positive for them -- when, in reality, I have found life gets harder and more complicated as we age. Sorry to be a "downer", but it's just where I am most of the time. I am so thankful for this space to write and share, grieve and learn -- and build back up some strength.

Oh -- and I totally bucked tradition, and used a Rabbi of my choosing for my Dad's funeral, and not our usual family Rabbi friend of my sisters (I thought he might be compromised). This was very risky on my part, but I just KNEW I had to have her preside over his service (as she Bar Mitzvah'd my Dad three years ago {never too late, as his parents were too poor to conduct this ritual when my Dad was 13}). Anyway...my Dad was an actor in our local community, and the Rabbi recited the words to the song "My Way" at the end of the graveside service, and then asked all of us to give him one last standing ovation. Very untraditional, and odd-looking to those standing nearby, I'm sure, but...how perfect for my wonderful, yet egotistical, father. I also spoke at this service, saying how my Dad loved his family, and was never one to hold a grudge, and that being revived three times were like his curtain calls -- before my Mom said, "Enough, already...get up here". I also printed a handout with his picture, and the lyrics to an old song that he loved, "I'm Gonna Live 'til I Die" -- of which the lyrics described him perfectly. His service will sure be remembered -- as he will be -- as he was loved by many!!! A real mensch.

Family update: Dad was in the ER on August 4th and died there 21 hours later of heart failure, and my sister and her family didn't come to see him. They did, however, come to the funeral. I am the executor and sole beneficiary (of a very little "estate") . So far, no family complaints from anyone regarding this. My Dear Dad made me aware of the suitcase that had all of his pertinent information in it for "when the time comes". Well...the time came. Emptying his apartment (that my parents shared for many, many years), closing his accounts, organizing his funeral, selling some things, giving away others... it has been very hectic, completing the majority of his life in less than a month. Efficient...sad...and hard on the emotions, but I learned that I can trust myself to make some really big decisions (even after making the crappy decision to not go to the hospital right away when my Dad called). Now is my time to do my grief work, and I am Thankful that this forum still is here, with Marty, Kay, and other wonderful, warm-hearted people contributing. My sister's daughter (my niece), lost her 54-year-old husband this past March from cancer. So sad. Such a great guy. When my nephew-in-law became sicker and sicker, I started speaking with my sister a little bit more. I also contributed money, where I could, to my niece. I realized that I don't want to behave the way they do, and that they are still my family. It is somewhat nice to have a little more communication, however, I also need to stay mindful that they can cut you off in a moment, if they find something offensive. Life is getting shorter and shorter to not tell the truth (without being brutal, of course!). My sister kept saying that, in Heaven, Mom can now smack Dad for the way he behaved. I kept saying that Dad lived up to his marriage vows and obligations until the day she died, and then went on to live his life. My life feels lonely. More introspective than ever. Way less safe. Maybe these will turn into good things. Strength. My Mom-Mom, Mom and Dad were the people most in my corner in this world. I know that they are with me as I go through all of this. My husband helped me so much, as I wept through the funeral details, the closing of my Dad's accounts, and turning-in the apartment keys. I am so Thankful for him. There is nothing as wonderful as unconditional LOVE!

Thank you, Kay, for your always thoughtful and compassionate reply! Counting on the hospital to be a "safe place" for my Dad to be is the annoying part, as I know that medical mistakes are the main cause of death. My Dad was in the hospital, and I wasn't there -- or my sister -- or his ladyfriend of 3 years -- to advocate for him (as he also told her she didn't need to rush to the hospital that night). This is a hard lesson, one that I already knew, and didn't act upon. His "sudden" death (although, him being age 88, I knew what would eventually be...), makes me wonder about which I would prefer (like I have a choice?). How different to go through such a long illness and decline, as with my Mom, and then, my Dad, to pass away in less than 24 hours. I used to think it was better to have time to come to terms with my loved one's ultimate release from suffering from a long-term illness. All the pain, and poking and prodding, and testing at the hospital for months...years. My Dad didn't suffer long. That seems to be a comfort as well, for me. Although... I will always wonder if my presence could have kept him more calm while being told there was no room available for him, thus preventing his demise. I know... I am not the one who decides these things. Regarding people...I always keep in mind what Maya Angelou said, "When people show you who they are, believe them the first time". Not easy for kind-hearted people to do, as we like to give the benefit of the doubt to most behaviors shown and statements said by others, even when they don't seem quite right. Plus, anything we say, can, and will, be used against us. It's like walking a tight-rope. Last November, an old boyfriend died (age 58), in March of this year, my nephew-in-law died (age 54), in April, my dear friend died (age 74), and now my Dad. How come I didn't realize this would be happening? Gotta get used to this, somehow?!? Drastically relying on my happy thoughts of my parents enjoying each other's Spirits once again, while dancing in Heaven. Your 94-year-old friend sounds amazing. I aspire to be like her -- and to keep good friends around ... like you are!

Sandy Kent, please accept my condolences for the loss of your daughter. I can't imagine how that feels, but my heart is with you. Regarding hot flashes and night sweats, I have been in menopause since 2014, and find that these symptoms flare-up more when I am stressed. I am not surprised that the flashes are still happening, as I have read this can go on for quite some time. I agree that there isn't much written on this topic, but the amount of "views" do seem to show that lots of other people are also interested. One thing...Thankfully, my moods don't seem to be hormonally swinging as much...so, that has calmed down. Hopefully for you as well. Grief - and sweating - is enough.

Here I am back again -- this time -- my 88-year-old Dad died on August 5th. I adored him, and miss him terribly! When he called at 5:30 pm from the ER on August 4th, he said he went to the ER because he wasn't feeling well, and was scheduled for angioplasty the next day. He sounded upbeat and stabilized. Then, he called at 9:45 pm sounding a bit agitated that he couldn't get into a room, as the hospital was full. At that point, I should have left for the hospital, as it takes me about 40 minutes to drive there. No...I went to sleep, thinking I would go to the hospital first thing in the morning. Well, at 11:30 the hospital Doctor calls to tell me that my Dad "coded", and they brought him back, but he is now on life support! I, of course, leave for the hospital. So...there's my regret. I wasn't there with him to see how he got from waiting for angioplasty, to being on life support, and being there with him. This is something I will have to live with. I don't know that I will ever know what happened, as the hospital and Doctors don't like to give many details, with worries of lawsuits. I am guessing my Dad was hooked up to the "beeping" machines in the ER when he arrived (as is custom), and that at some point, between 10 pm and 11:30 the alarm sounded as his heart stopped, and they ran in to save his life. The ER Doctor and nurses told me he became agitated. He "coded" three times, and they brought him back each time. The third time, the nurse rushed us to the CAT scan room to watch them try to revive him. This was very traumatic to see. Of course I said, "stop". They did. A few moments later, someone says, "I have a pulse". My Dad wasn't leaving this earth easily. Abandoning the CAT scan, to get him finally to a room in the ICU, the nurse comes out to tell us he passed away. Then, the Doctor came out to ask me what to do "the next time he coded". I said that the nurse just told us he was already dead. I wrote a letter to the hospital, and was told that Doctors are the ones to deliver that news, and they would look into it. I also am dealing with resentment (or displaced anger at myself) at my sister who lives near the hospital, but has been estranged from Dad for the past 6 years. (When Mom was alive, sister would be the "night shift" and I was "day shift" in our hospital visits.) I let her know Dad was on life support, but she never showed up at the hospital. She did come to his funeral, as did her family. I also have to live with my anger at them for abandoning him after Mom died (as they didn't like that he enjoyed dating women a year after she passed away -- and he was 82 at that time!). Regret...trauma...sadness...anger...grief. Life has never been good again without my Mom on the planet. Now...Dad's gone too. It's challenging to stay positive, but I try. Lots of death all around as I approach my 60's. A new phase in life.

Hi -- I am always happy someone writes on this thread. Well, happy isn't really what I feel, because I know how painful this subject has been for me -- but at least someone else is willing to share their story -- and I don't feel so alone. First, let me say I am so sorry you are going through all of this, and I hope you are recovering well from your accident. You also lost a good support in your mother-in-law. She sounds like she was a good woman to help you, and to love your husband so much, and him being a "mama's boy" shows just how much he loved her. I see that your husband is her youngest child, and am a bit confused about your statement that his siblings have not lost THEIR mother yet, so please forgive me if my response assumes anything incorrectly. I also don't have many good answers for this situation, as I am still estranged from my sister and her family, and my brother is deceased. Thankfully, I still have a good relationship with our 86-year-old dad. I can say that I was extremely close with both of my parents growing up, and considered my dearly departed mom to be my very best friend. What I have learned, in my situation, is that since my birth, my siblings have harbored a great resentment and jealousy towards me. They were 8 and 10 years old when I was born, and I got LOTS of attention -- so I don't really blame them, but I always wished they could've really loved and accepted me. Maybe his siblings also harbor some resentment towards their youngest brother, given the closeness he had with her -- that both of you had with her. Unfortunately, I do feel that withholding their communication and love is a kind of punishment from them -- like -- you've had enough attention already -- in their eyes. Maybe I'm wrong, but these original childhood grudges seem to extend into adulthood, and no matter what is said or done, "redemption" for me hasn't been possible, to overcome their deep-seated feeling towards me. I also held the belief that blood was thicker than water, and that family was everything. It is difficult to speak about this to most people, as they don't share this experience with their family. Still, there are PLENTY of people who also suffer this situation. When I went to hospice counseling (which by the way is free), the counselor said that she sees this type of behavior from families all the time, and I felt very understood by her. If your husband isn't ready to go to a counselor, maybe you will try it out. It's very helpful, and I recommend it highly, to gain more insight and to relieve some more of this pain. Lately, and mind you it has taken me many years, I have been feeling better in my own skin, and choose to share my life with people that actually want me in it, rather than chasing those in my family who I feel "less than" in their presence. It's been empowering to focus on, not what I have lost, but what I have gained from this situation, and that is a greater sense of self worth. This first anniversary will be very difficult, and I wish strength for you, your husband and son.

Thank you, Kay, for your response. You are right that I need not personalize others' behavior, and that acceptance is key. The choices I made regarding my Dad were correct for me, and I wouldn't do anything differently. It would have been nice for my family to just acknowledge and allow it in their minds, and let it be - but that's not what happened. I do need to make sure I don't "take on" what isn't mine. I appreciate your response.

Well...off I go to see a Hospice bereavement counselor tomorrow. I am hoping that I can glean more information into how - and why - my family broke apart after Mom died. If sadness is the root of anger, then I guess I am really sad. I feel sad for my Dad, me, and for my whole family. So much grief has been unleashed since my Mom's passing: my Dad changing, my Mother-in-Law passing from complications of Alzheimer's, my fertility, my family's estrangement, my friend breaking-off our friendship, friend's parents dying. I know that some of this comes along with the aging process. And it all seems to be wrapped up in abandonment (like the Susan Anderson information you turned me onto, Marty). I don't know how much of this falls into the right category for Hospice bereavement, but am looking forward to finding out more.

Hi twalkertf - First, please accept my condolences for the loss of your Mom. My Mom also passed in 2011 (May 12th). I am glad that your search on this topic led you here -- and led you to write. There are many views of this topic, so, I figure we are not alone. I don't have much insight into all of this, other than to tell you to hang on for the ride. Loss, grief, confusion, swinging moods, sweating (along with continuing work and marriage) -- so much happening all at once! Taking good care of yourself is essential (like how you would treat and nurture a friend - being gentle with your dear self) -- and remembering that this too shall pass (remembering that the stressors will change - and also to enjoy your time in life, as it is precious). I can tell you that you will love when your period finally goes away (and it will) -- but that too, is a loss. Another one to grieve - and to celebrate. I'm big on getting support, and I found that writing, and reading the many topics, in these groups really helps me. I am also going to see a Hospice bereavement counselor again, as I am moving through more layers of grief, and am hoping for more clarity and focus, now that my hormones are settling down. Sending you support!

Wow, Kay! Such amazingly true words, "If we live our lives trying to please someone else that usually doesn't appreciate it anyway, we lose ourselves in the process". And Marty, I SO agree with "...put on your own oxygen mask first". Great reminders for me. Thank you!

Hi IrIr - thank you for this topic. I am sorry to see that your mom is so ill, and that you are going through this difficult decision. More than anything, it is good to see you are taking care of yourself, and have gone on with your life and created a support system for yourself. I also find it commendable, forgiving, and compassionate that you still care for your mom, even though you say she "has never been able to really acknowledge her lack of reponsisbility as a mother". My family situation is different from yours, in that no abuse occurred from my parents, so I don't mean to make any comparisons. What I can relate to, is what to tell my estranged family (when the time comes) that our 86-year-old dad is dying/or has died. It is good for me to read this situation from your perspective, as I seem to be on the other side of this same coin, as my sister and her family have all stopped communicating with our dad, and me and my husband. If our dad was sick and dying, I probably would let them know, if there was time for them to say their goodbyes, but I am a bit concerned about how they would treat him, as they have said some abusively mean things to him, and I don't know if I'd want to set him up for that if he is in a helpless condition (unless he asks for them, of course). And...when he eventually passes, do I tell them when the service will be taking place? Knowing me, I probably will. I feel that (in their eyes) I can never be "right" whatever I do, regarding my family (as they don't have that kind of space for me or my dad), so I have to do what I can live with. So...back to you and what to do? You say your mom didn't hate you. She probably loves you very much, but might now be in a difficult position - wanting you there, but not wanting the upset that may occur between her children. Your mom is too ill to be left unattended, so private time with her, if you were to visit, is probably not going to happen. It also would be smarter for you to make this journey with a friend, as not to be alone with your family without some support. Whatever you ultimately choose, I hope you make peace with that decision, and that it's one you can live with. My best to you! (Also, thank you for also using the word "abandonment", as this is a new concept for me in regards to estrangement as a kind of death, which needs to be grieved.)

Hi Marty, I found some links you included in a post from 2015 regarding Susan Anderson's work with abandonment, and have been learning a lot about how estrangement is linked to this issue. Just the fact that I am working so hard at finding out information regarding this matter, reminds me that I am a caring and conscientious person. I know that I am at fault in my family's eyes, but I also have never seen them take responsibility for anything -- go to counseling -- ask for help -- or do anything but see their side of the situation to justify their attitudes and behaviors. I always find comfort and resources here. I have also learned not to take the lack of responses personally. Such a big lesson, that is serving me well in my "real" life as well!!

Thanks, Kay, for your kind words, as always! Coming to terms with my family estrangement has been very complicated and painful for me. Thanks for the reminder to take good care of myself, with understanding and patience.