Rae1991

I always say this, even if revenge is not the intended goal (and it shouldn't be). You deserve to be loved, happy, and thriving. First, you give those things to yourself, then find others to share them with, and life continues. THAT is the ultimate revenge. 💖

Ugh, what a sad existence that must be. A man who half-assed his way through life, probably didn't treat her well, and used her for his needs while barely meeting hers as he saw fit. And she stayed with him through his dating of several other women and even being engaged to another woman while still legally married. Oof, part of me has pity for her, but she has had plenty of time to learn to do better for herself. That degree of comfort they have with one another and in life, has cost them both immensely as it seems neither of them have anything to show for the lives they've sleepwalked through. I could never. I am glad you didn't marry Jim, tbh. It seems he would've sucked the life out of you and been dependent on you to do everything. You're the spirited, loving, energetic go-getter, and he's the bland, flavorless tag-along schlepping behind you hanging on your coattails. I know that loneliness can hurt, especially as we get older and life changes so rapidly, but I truly hope you are finding joy in your life, even though this betrayal has absolutely put a strain on it. It is hard to lose not one, but several people in your circle you thought cared for and loved you. ❤️

As I said, he has spent his entire life deceiving women/others for personal gain. You didn't see it because he has had decades to polish his "upstanding gentleman" act. Anyone would've been duped by this, I mean, look at all the people around you who turned a blind eye/didn't know better because he was so "nice" to everyone. Something a woman called "Chump Lady" wrote to a woman who asked for her advice on how to handle her cheating STB-ex husband: This guy has an empty elevator shaft where his soul should be. He play acts through life, putting on his best performance, face paint, doting dad/husband and all, and when your scene was done, he exited stage left and went about his day. ❤️

But see, here's the thing. You didn't choose his awfulness, his deceit and lies, his lack of empathy, love or compassion. HE chose you because you are everything he lacks. He pretended for over a decade to be what YOU already are: kind, loving, graceful, compassionate, exuding energy and zest for life. He mirrored you, he's a chameleon, he becomes what the closest thing to him is to gain favor, but eventually the disguise wore off and you saw him for what he is. Someone once said: "You always tell women to choose better men, but where are these men? How can she choose better if the men that are readily available don't have anything to offer her and aren't who they say they are? That's like telling her to go to a 5-star steakhouse, pay for a steak, and be served cold McDonald's. Then y'all have the audacity to tell her she should be grateful. Y'all are talking out of both sides of your mouth. If you want her to choose better, how about becoming a better choice." I would say this is a one-off, but there are millions of women who are deceived in dating/marriage by men who masquerade as everything women are/want, only to reveal their truth after they've been with the women for months/years. This lack of integrity and proper character is not your fault. Though I know from experience, it's hard to not beat ones self up for not seeing this sooner. As I said before, all you can do is treat yourself with love, grace, compassion and forgiveness, something that men like Jim do not deserve from you. Men like this will spend their entire lives deceiving and traumatizing women due to issues that have nothing to do with the women themselves. Your ability to love openly, trust, and be a kind, compassionate, caring person is not a reflection of the men you've dated. Their inability to love you or reciprocate partnership is who THEY are, not you. ❤️

I am sorry, Kay. Of course people are dismissive of pain and grief....until it happens to them, then you are the insensitive one. Oh, the irony. I think it has to do with not being taught to regulate ourselves emotionally, to have empathy and compassion for ourselves so many lack it for others, or to confront the heavy stuff like grief and death. Anyone who can just "move on" from such deep hurt and betrayal like it didn't affect them is not right emotionally. These are also extremely uncomfortable topics to talk about and many would rather just not. I don't get it, or people who say such dismissive things. Of course it hurts, he betrayed and deceived you on every possible level one could. The people who are dismissive towards you may not be equipped or ready to deal with their own fear and pain. I feel for you because, even though I didn't know him for nearly as long, my ex acted the same towards me and I get the inkling he and Jim are the same kind of man because the details you describe are just too similar. The man I agreed to be in a relationship with, after being friends for nearly 3 years, was not the man he turned out to be. It's obvious I never knew him, as I was friends with who he wanted to portray himself as, not his true self. Both of these men are rotten onions, their deceit is layered, thick, and rotten to the root, beneath a seemingly healthy exterior layer. Don't let people convince you that your feelings aren't valid simply because they're an inconvenience to others. Anyone who goes through so much heartache would be just as dizzy, confused and heavy as you. If these men have anything, it's the audacity. I pray you are doing everything you can to treat yourself with grace, compassion and forgiveness. Things these men absolutely do not deserve. ❤️

UGH. OF COURSE HE DID. He doesn't think he did anything wrong. Sounds like my ex: Delusional and so lacking in empathy and self-awareness, it is utterly astounding they've had any relationships. They may have been long-term relationships, but it doesn't mean they had substance, connection, or were fulfilling for the partners. It truly scares me that there are so many people who just schlep through life on auto-pilot damaging and hurting people, being so self-absorbed and oblivious to how their behavior effects others. You deserve better, and I am glad you know and believe that. ❤️

My dear Kay, I am so sorry for you. Even 12 years on, what he did to you is unconscionable. He founded your entire relationship, and friendship, on false pretenses. The people around him who knew and didn't bother to have the respect for you to say something, are as lacking in integrity as he is. This man is not your friend. No one who cares for you would do this. One just doesn't simply forget they are legally married while engaged to someone else. I have a feeling that grief wasn't the only culprit in his breaking up. But to then string you along as a friend for 12 years and still keep this secret? Who does he think he is?! I don't mean to be of offense, but it is clear now he never intended to marry you. The audacity, the arrogance, to propose marriage and play the part of fiance, while still married to someone else knowing you are lying. His being on the Spectrum is not an excuse either, he knows better, and that's why he lied. Do not make excuses for him, he did this consciously, and so did everyone around him who knew. That is a level of deceit I cannot even fathom. You are right to be gobsmacked and feel betrayed, because his betrayal began the day he entered into a romantic relationship with you before getting his prior affairs in order. I hope you can heal from this betrayal, as you have before. There is no way you could have known. NONE of what he/they did was your fault. Rae

Ugh, how awful of him to deceive you like that if it is true. All that time you spent with him and he still kept life-altering secrets. You are right to be shocked, even now. You are right to feel betrayed because that's exactly what he did: betrayed you. Your entire relationship was founded on a lie that would have come to head when you began filling out marriage paperwork and planning the wedding. Even if he had come clean about it before you got married, how could you trust him after that? I wouldn't be able to as that is a huge breach of trust and an offense that would end in an indefinite break-up. The things people will say/do to keep up appearances and the lies they tell their loved ones so nonchalantly, are shocking. It makes it hard to want to date/get into a relationship again. You deserve better than he could offer, and I hope that you know his lying to you to maintain a relationship is not your fault and that there was no way you could have known. Do what you need to process that information, if it is true I would cut ties with him, even as a friend. Regardless of what you do, continue to take care of yourself and enjoying life.

I do as well. One of the churches near my condo are quite community involved. They run food drives and pantries, fed families during the pandemic, support social justice initiatives and have female-led services too, and there are several devout families who attend. There are also rural Menonites and Amish in the surrounding counties and they have always been kind when I interacted with them. You are absolutely correct, his toxic family, childhood church and associates may be where he learned these things, but he is well old enough to find the tools, therapy, church communities and resources to do better for himself, he just chooses not to because lying and pretending to be someone else is easier and doesn't require any real effort, self-awareness or work. However I do wonder sometimes, how exhausting, pitiful and burdensome faking your way through life must be, and what these people's lives would look like if they actually took risks and put true effort into themselves and their character. I have let go of many friends who behaved as such and admittedly, in my teens and early 20s I acted like this regarding my social circles because I wanted to be liked and didn't know better. I was about 24 when I began realizing that none of these people were actually my friends, they were just bar buddies and transients looking for people to use. I started looking for authenticity and honesty in all my relationships after some hard therapy sessions, and I got these solid friendships by being authentic myself after realizing that being liked by people isn't worth my self-respect or boundaries. I have a much happier life as a result. --Rae

I hear that. It's funny because he grew up in a fundamentalist Evangelical church, and married into a fellow family. He claimed a few years prior to his divorce that he began to disillusion himself with these beliefs and wanted to be a better, kinder, more loving Christian. What better way to do that than cheat on your wife with a fellow Married "Christian" woman? LOL. He claims he didn't, but as I wrote before, it's obvious he did/was by his behavior and how he treated her/spoke about her later into our relationship. He claimed in the several years since his divorce before we got together, he had found a more open, accepting Church that was welcoming to all races, treated women with respect, and by going was un-learning all the toxic beliefs his parents/church/ex-wife displayed. The reality is, once you got to know him better/date him (unfortunately for me), you realize he is still very much a fundamentalist and has not done an ounce of work to undo those beliefs, he just talks a big game and pretends like he respects women, cares about equality, and other social issues. Nah, he's a giant fake who plays the part for social currency. Again, going back to the whole desperately needing to appear as a "Good Guy" so no one believes he's actually racist, misogynist and doesn't even like women, and thinks he's above others. I've not met a loving, kind, genuinely upstanding Christian who behaves the way that he does. When I called him out, he accused me of just hating Christians, which I found hilarious. This man has such little respect for himself he can't even respect his fellow church goers. Yuck. I'm so glad I found this forum, you Kayc and Marty, along with the contributions of fellow members has given me entire new perspectives about people, grief, and how each person's process is different. You have always been a light on this forum, Kayc. Replying to each post with your kind, experiences and life wisdom. You're doing work that few would enjoy or do at the extent, and us fellow members are grateful you encourage us to share and offer us your nuggets of love and compassion in return. --Rae

Just thought I would leave a quick update here, one year later. Feel free to laugh along as you read this, I certainly did when reading the letter he sent. He felt the need to reach out and write me essentially, a Dear Jane letter "explaining" how WE were both at fault for the things that went wrong...yes, let's all laugh together. Nothing has changed. He is still the exact same person he was when I refused to continue being "friends." I am not at all surprised by this, and frankly, I couldn't care less about him or his life. In this letter, he droned on about how kind I was, and how he's glad he met me and hasn't forgotten me and wishes we were still friends because his son still asks about me. He made no effort to atone for a single thing he did or his lack of effort, lies, or abusive behavior. The only thing I did wrong was not dumping him and cutting him off sooner because I cared about him as a person and believed the lies that he was actually making an effort and progress in dealing with his mental health and problems. This letter alone is proof he has not done a single bit of work to take accountability for any of his behavior through his life, including how he treated his marriage, how he treats his ex-wife and son, or his beliefs that women/relationships are objects for his pleasure and fulfillment. He even had the guts to say that he was "heartbroken" over my miscarriage (what a load of sh*t), and that "I still wonder what that baby would've turned out like because you would've made a great mother." (Ew, Barf) This is the same man who I believe got me pregnant on purpose by stealthing (intentional removal of the condom without the partners consent or knowledge, it is illegal in several countries and states) and/or poking holes in condoms, and then blamed me for the miscarriage and said he didn't care and wanted it all to be over so we could "move on and just be friends again." I know (through his own admission while we were together) that he didn't even want the child he has, and that he felt obligated to have one to fix his marriage. I firmly believe he had a baby so she couldn't get away from him, and he'd always have someone to blame for his behavior/use as an emotional punching bag. I believe he was going to do the same thing to me and sadly, probably will with other women too. I am glad I had a miscarriage, I would NEVER willingly have a baby with such an awful, cruel, ugly person. He is already a terrible, physically present but absent father to the child he has, and he believes he's a great dad, as he said his son is doing "better than ever now that I'm going to therapy again" LMAO. The rest of the letter was just him blubbering on about how great our friendship was, sprinkles of scripture he believes justify his actions and how God has forgiven him, and how well he's doing now. He even went so far as to assert that God would help us mend our friendship one day. I haven't contacted him since I told him I was shocked to find out I was both pregnant and miscarrying about a year ago. He is blocked on every SM channel I have and I put a block on his number through my phone company within days of our last conversation. I have no desire whatsoever to reconnect with him and he will not be getting a response. My therapist and I read this letter together, and had a good laugh about it, and then talked about how I felt hearing this word salad of braggadocious fakery and nonsense, and I asked her to keep it on file just in case he tries anything further. His refusal to atone for a single thing he said/did, and gaslighting, bragging nature of this sad excuse he calls writing, was the ultimate seal that I absolutely made the right decision to never re-engage, and that my gut feeling something was off, doubts, and questions about our friend/relationship were on point: He lied to me from Day 1 about who he was, and he knew exactly what he was doing regardless of his past experiences and traumas, he went from the abused to the abuser. Now, he's just doing "damage control" again hoping to tug at me so I will forgive him, as he tried doing last year with his insistence our friendship was stronger than everything he'd done and he and his son needed me because I helped him be better (ew, double barf). I feel as though he desperately needs to believe he's the "Good Guy" that he portrays himself as to the World, even though he is the opposite. I don't believe his is capable of truly loving, or caring about another person. The only good thing he ever did for me was dump me, so I had an excuse to run for the hills. In speaking with several friends and 2 therapists, some concluded he may be Bipolar, Borderline, on the Autism spectrum, a narcissist, etc. I don't know for sure, and never will. Regardless of diagnosis or lack thereof, it is NOT your job to accept on-going bad behavior, disrespect or abuse from anyone and call it love. You are not a free therapist or punching bag, you are their partner/loved one/friend. If they cannot treat you with the respect and love you deserve and require to maintain a relationship, get as far away from them as possible and do not re-engage. You deserve better than they can give you. This is your reminder to never re-engage or rekindle a relationship with someone who has done nothing but lie, betray your trust and abuse you (even if unintentional). You deserve better than the relationship your ex gave you, even if they left you because a loved one died and you can empathize with their trauma/past/grief, whatever. YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN TO BE ABANDONED BY A PERSON WHO CLAIMS TO LOVE YOU. ABANDONMENT IS NOT LOVE. In my case, he didn't abandon me as he was never present in our relationship to begin with, he just pretended to be. He set me free from a future of chains, imprisonment, misery and abuse disguised as "love." I wish I had never met him. I realize that our entire friendship was all about his selfish need for constant external validation, beliefs that he isn't responsible for himself and doesn't need to do better, he just needs to apologize and keep on; and the "right woman" will submit happily to his desire for control and fulfill all his needs. He uses his religious beliefs to justify his behavior, as he grew up being taught that women are objects for male consumption, and their only duty is to please their husband, and that God designed relationships to be this way. Hope this helps. Having the laugh with my therapist was certainly cathartic, as I haven't talked or thought about him in quite some time now. I have done my best to forget he exists, and it seems as though I have succeeded in that considering he wrote me a letter to remind me of his sad existence LOL. I hope you all get to a point in your healing where you can earnestly laugh about these experiences, even though the pain and anguish you feel in the moment is real. The best revenge is a life well-lived. --Rae

I am glad you are coming to this realization, even though the breakup hurts regardless. I hate to say it but it's the truth: People who behave like this and expect nothing but kindness, love and empathy from others, don't deserve it from us. You can empathize with them while not allowing them to continuously hurt you with their crap behavior. My ex, the one I wrote about a few months ago, tried using his kid, tears and lying to garner sympathy from me so I wouldn't leave him, as we were friends and had known one another a few years before dating. Who he portrayed himself to be as a friend and how he acted as a partner were two entirely separate people. It was like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. While grief, trauma and hurt may cause people to do strange things, it does not mean we have to sit there and collect bullets from them every time they choose to lash out, ignore us, or say things they know hurt us. Stop allowing yourself to be a target for his poor behaviors. It really sucks knowing that they would treat you so horribly for no reason, but expect you to just put up with it and still treat them with kindness and love. It's selfish, it's manipulative, and it is not acceptable. When the pandemic is over I will more than likely be moving countries again as well. I always remember a quote by a guy named Ron B on this forum in Miri's thread from a few years ago: "Walking away is in it's own way an act of love. You walk away not just to spare yourself from anymore hurt, but because it's the right thing to do for them." He had a few posts in that thread that were wonderful, and I reference them whenever I am going through a situation like this. You DO deserve better than this. You are not selfish for doing what you want and what is best for YOU. He has already done so for himself, and been selfish in expecting you to wait for him. It's not selfish, it is basic self-care in not allowing yourself to be a convenience for him. Never let him or anyone else tell you different. Do not put yourself on clearance or layaway for love or a relationship. If he isn't going to be present, show up and love you as you deserve to be NOW, he doesn't get the privilege of remaining in your life. --Rae

I am sorry you have found yourself here. The best advice I can give you is: DO NOT put your life on hold or wait around until "he is ready" to contact you. He is not thinking about you or your relationship at all, he is only thinking of himself to expect that you will readily answer his call in 3 weeks, or 3 months, or a year from now. He has effectively broken up with you and is trying to keep you on the hook so when he needs comfort, you'll be there waiting to comfort him. I understand you love him, but what about you and what you want? Cut the line, start the grieving process and start moving forward with you life, without him in it. A person who truly wanted to be with you would not dump you just because life got hard. Aren't you angry he disrespected and discarded you so swiftly? I am angry for you at such blatant disrespect. A partner should turn to their spouse in times like this, not run away from them. You deserve better than to be his convenience "when he is ready." Let him "feel like crap" on his own, as that is what he has chosen in his decision to leave you. He is no longer entitled to your time, love, comfort or compassion because you are no longer his girlfriend. He made this decision, now he has to live with the consequences, one of which is not having you in his life. Delete his socials from yours, his messages and number too, and when you are ready, put all the stuff he gave you into a box and out of sight and after a while get rid of it. Go back to your life/friends/hobbies or find new ones, as he has effectively done the same in telling you he doesn't want to speak with you. "When he's ready" doesn't mean anything, he straight up told you he isn't interested in continuing contact at all. I hate to say it, but it's what is best for you and not speaking to him will help you move forward. You said yourself you are not sure you have what it takes to wait around for him, that's your gut telling you you deserve better than how he treated you; listen to it. Do not wait around for him to contact you, in time, you will understand and realize that HE needs to be the one to work to get you back, if he's not going to do that, he has no reason to contact you and does not deserve to have you in his life. Who knows, in 6 months you may not even want him anymore. Please do not give him the impression that you are waiting by the phone, as he knows you're still on his hook and may use that to manipulate you into doing what he wants, as both my exes that I wrote about on the forum tried to do. In the mean time I would suggest going to a support group if you can find one, or a local therapist to help you work through all the confusion and feelings you have about this situation. Find books to read, or a language you want to learn, a new hobby you want to try, if you're in school focus on that, volunteer if you want, find things to do that you enjoy and keep yourself busy, as you will be prone to overthinking and ruminating for a while. It may take a few weeks or months, but the thoughts will subside in time. You will get through this, and whether or not he comes back around shouldn't stop you from living your life. I just hope you understand that you did nothing to cause this, it is not your fault, and you have no reason to feel guilty for expecting him to treat you better. He has chosen to disrespect and break up with you, you have no reason to feel guilty for not waiting around for him. He shouldn't expect you to and it is unfair of him to hold you to that expectation while keeping you on the hook with empty promises and maybes. -- Rae

You are right, his untreated mental illness isn't his fault and I understand that. The emotional abuse and child-like antics may be a side effect of it, but it also demonstrates to me that to some degree, he was fully aware of what he was doing. He lied about a number of things that it just doesn't seem logical to lie about, made weird misogynistic comments about women only wanting him for his salary and "high intelligence" (he doesn't have wealth, only debt and he is not that smart tbh), but that could also be the deep self-hatred and low self-worth talking to make it seem like he's more desirable than he really is. Still, does not make it right. After the regular lies, dismissals, betrayal and details I won't mention that Kayc knows about, there is no chance of reconciliation or friendship. I know he self-sabotaged, acted out and has attachment issues as well, my therapist confirmed that after more sessions. He is supposedly in therapy, but even while we dated, I wasn't sure he was being honest. Truthfully, I was going to sit down and try to talk to him one last time about his behavior and if nothing was to come of it I was going to walk, but he dumped me before I could so I just walked away because it became clear he didn't care, or at least, did a great job of acting like he didn't. I started getting really heavy "Nice Guy" vibes from him and realized that how he was acting was him on his best behavior, and that was eye-opening for me. I got the gist as well that his need to "still be friends" was a mixture of exactly what you stated and for him to use me as an emotional dumping ground/punching bag when things don't go his way with other women/his life. And, to show me off like cattle at an auction to demonstrate to other women how worthy he is because he's still great friends with his beautiful, charismatic, kind, "cool" ex-girlfriend and that they should want to date him because he's so amazing (but we're gonna gloss over all his issues, emotional blackhole and selfish, abusive behavior because he's such a cool, nice guy!) I refused to let him violate/push yet another of my boundaries and act like it wasn't an issue. The real end came for me when he behaved as though he had done nothing wrong and that I should just be okay with it because everyone acts like this and he's such a great friend I had no reason to be upset with him. That's when I realized he was absolutely void inside and had zero emotional capacity or intelligence. I don't dislike or hate him, mostly it's just pity now. Pity that he's trapped, too proud to ask for or seek help or be vulnerable, so afraid of life that he's closed himself off from it and giving/receiving love. It's a sad, lonely way to exist. You are right, I am grateful I know better than to just move in with someone on a whim. Thanks for your perspective. --Rae

I think you did well in keeping things light and casual with everyone in the family that you spoke with. So good job with that. How did the interaction feel? Did it bring back any unpleasant feelings or send you back into a spiral of missing her? Remember, you have no obligation to them/her nor them to you so you do not need to stay in contact with them or care about what they think/feel about you. However I am sure it was validating to know that her family cared for you, just don't let this send you back into your grief cycles. --Rae