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Ever since Mark died, I have had contact with his mom almost daily.  If I am not in her presence, we talk on the phone.  Part of it was necessity; she wanted to be my ride to work.  I know she wanted to "take care of me" in whatever way was possible, and I appreciate all that she has done.  But I have never really had a chance to stand alone in my grief.  We all need support, and someone to listen.  But her and I never really talked about grief much at all.  We talked about Mark, which I loved.  I like any opportunity to hear his name or be told a Mark story.  I know I am the strongest connection to him for her.  Now that I have gained my independence (and really enjoying it), and have a strong need to stand alone and come out from under her protectiveness. Part of me believes I haven't shouldered the full brunt of my grief just yet, or am I misguided? She still wants me to call her when I get to work, and when I get home...and I am beginning to feel a bit smothered.  Is that wrong?  I do not know how often she called Mark, but I know when she asked him to do something, he jumped and did it.  She kind of wants to mother me, and I am having a hard time with that.  Do you think my relationship with her has been a crutch of some sort?  Mark and I used to joke about creating a "married to the Muellers" support group for all of us who married into the family.  I just feel this strong desire to stand on my own and face grief.  I have had so much support this entire time from friends and co-workers, and of course from Mark's family.  I just feel the need to step out from the protection.  

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There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to stand on your own..it's very hard and brave of you especially after losing your partner. You have to do what is best for you in the end and I'm sure if you talk to his mother about it she will understand and give you a bit of space. 

I havery had the opposite experience I talk to my fiancé mother and family every once in awhile so I've been standing alone dealing with my grief which can be both good and bad. I think you need to take a step back from everyone and give yourself the chance to really grieve. It sounds like even when you do that you'll still have support when you need it.

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1 hour ago, Froggie4635 said:

Now that I have gained my independence (and really enjoying it), and have a strong need to stand alone and come out from under her protectiveness. Part of me believes I haven't shouldered the full brunt of my grief just yet, or am I misguided? She still wants me to call her when I get to work, and when I get home...and I am beginning to feel a bit smothered.  Is that wrong?  

She kind of wants to mother me, and I am having a hard time with that.  Do you think my relationship with her has been a crutch of some sort?  I just feel this strong desire to stand on my own and face grief.  I have had so much support this entire time from friends and co-workers, and of course from Mark's family.  I just feel the need to step out from the protection.  

 

 

Maryanne -

My children are very protective of me but they don't call me when they get to work.  My youngest son calls every day, either on his way to work or on his way home; depending on his schedule.  My daughter will call most days, but not always, on her way home.  My oldest will call sometimes weekly, sometimes a couple of times in a week.  I would feel smothered if any of them called twice daily.  I don't think Deedo ever called her mom twice every day.  So to answer your question "Is that wrong?"  In my opinion: nope; I think those feelings are fully justified,

I do think that your relationship with her is more of a crutch for her.  I understand your need to "stand on your own and face grief".  If there is one thing I've learned is that although we all share this common denominator, each of us needs to face grief on our own.  There is no consigning it to anyone else.

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This is a case of the grass looking greener.  I wish I had someone real time to talk to about the grief beside my counselor.  I have to tone. It back with others.  They weary of it, I know.  Especially after 'this long'.  I understand your wanting to be alone too, Maryann.  It's a conundrum.  How do we find a balance?  

Your MIL lost a child so I understand her needing you.  You have become the bridge.  You both lost the most important person in your lives.  

Fo thise if us without kids that call or visit, the isolation and loneliness is pure hell.  There are a couple of people that call to check in on me, but I know it's with limits.  This grief thing is so tangled and like a smothering web at times.  What to do and not.  And none are wrong or right.  I watch everyone struggle because there is no guidebook.  We just keep walking a path not knowing what the next turn will be.

mine now is why I keep volunteering except to kill time.  I have lost that feeling of altruism.  It changes everything.  I want to feel I make a difference and even if I do, I can't feel it right now.  I go because sitting in this house would intensify the depression.  Yet, while I am there, I don't want to be.  But I come home to emptiness too.  The biggest ever.  It's a no win right now.  That creates such anxiety and feeling trapped.  

I'd give anything to feel something mattered in my life.  It's all just doing for doing.  How huge the change is not being able to just converse with our partners about the little things as that gave them such meaning.  

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Same as Marita said.  I use this forum as a crutch and life preserver.  But, I know the forum is not going to call me or me check in every day except if I want to.  Maybe his mom needs to have some time to grieve her own self and she has adopted you as a substitute.  

I just read Gwen's answer and honestly, I have no answer.  Look at it from Gwen's perspective also.

You all know my various family involvements/entanglements/ ad nauseam. They do provide much attention, sometimes more than I want to give.  I think about moving away but I think my next move will be into assisted living.   

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This is a delicate situation to handle.  Reason tells us she is overly worried and about what?  Everyday occurrences we all face (driving to work) cause her concern so that she needs reassured you're okay?  My mom would get like that too only out of control issues, I'd try to tell her, "Mom, I'm 45, don't call my dentist, or my friends either!"  I had to put my foot down with her.  But she was my mom, she had to forgive me and get past it.  It's a little touchier with a mother-in-law.  From what you've told us, she sounds like a sweet, caring person, I know you don't want to hurt her feelings.  You can start with telling her how much you appreciate her, how you couldn't have made it without her, but you need to try your wings and be on your own a bit...you still need her and want her in your life, but you don't want to have to check in with her daily, maybe weekly.  I hope it goes well, I know you don't want to hurt or offend her, you value her, but you just want to be treated like the capable adult that you are!

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Thanks, Kay.  That kind of sums it up for me.  There have been times that I haven't responded to phone calls (I only have a cell phone and I don't always keep it where I am) and when I see she has called FOUR TIMES in a matter of a few hours and I call...she is close to crying because she was SO afraid something was wrong and was going to drive over and check on me.  I then feel bad because I did not have my phone near me and did not get her call.  But I am busy at home.  I have three dogs and a house that needs tending to.  My attention span is terrible, so I kind of flit around from project to project. The only person that I got used to bringing my problems to was Mark and now he is not here.  So I have to learn to work through things myself.  I can't do that with someone hovering. And if I proceed with the next change I am looking to make, she will REALLY have a hard time with it.  I am contemplating becoming Jewish.  I feel Jewish by osmosis, working here at a Jewish facility for almost 15 years.  I wasn't raised with any sort of faith.  I do know what I am not comfortable being around, and going through this loss, I feel something missing and a desire to fill that void.  It was a whisper the other day that caught my attention, and that whisper turned into a desire to learn more about it.  

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Maryann, 

Bottom line, you have to do what is right for you and I totally understand your wanting to become Jewish after being around it for years. It will be hard for her to learn that you are a person separate from her, but it's something she needs to learn.  Sometimes it's hard to see the difference between caring and controlling, my mom was like that, always wanting in charge of everything and wanting us to check in with her, sometimes it wasn't feasible.  I read a book called Emotional Blackmail and that helped me a lot in dealing with her...not saying she's like that, but it brings up those feelings. I wish you well in your conversion!

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On 3/23/2017 at 8:41 AM, Froggie4635 said:

Ever since Mark died, I have had contact with his mom almost daily.  If I am not in her presence, we talk on the phone.  Part of it was necessity; she wanted to be my ride to work.  I know she wanted to "take care of me" in whatever way was possible, and I appreciate all that she has done.  But I have never really had a chance to stand alone in my grief.  We all need support, and someone to listen.  But her and I never really talked about grief much at all.  We talked about Mark, which I loved.  I like any opportunity to hear his name or be told a Mark story.  I know I am the strongest connection to him for her.  Now that I have gained my independence (and really enjoying it), and have a strong need to stand alone and come out from under her protectiveness. Part of me believes I haven't shouldered the full brunt of my grief just yet, or am I misguided? She still wants me to call her when I get to work, and when I get home...and I am beginning to feel a bit smothered.  Is that wrong?  I do not know how often she called Mark, but I know when she asked him to do something, he jumped and did it.  She kind of wants to mother me, and I am having a hard time with that.  Do you think my relationship with her has been a crutch of some sort?  Mark and I used to joke about creating a "married to the Muellers" support group for all of us who married into the family.  I just feel this strong desire to stand on my own and face grief.  I have had so much support this entire time from friends and co-workers, and of course from Mark's family.  I just feel the need to step out from the protection.  

 

There is also another excellent book "Boundaries" by Dr.John Townsend and Dr Henry McCloud. It deals with settings boundaries in our life. The discuss the dynamic of family and how people can overstep their bounds.  It is something I continue to work on. It is best for our own emotional health to set boundaries for ourselves so we do not violate our core values.It is not designed to control another person but to help us.  It is not mean, uncaring, or unloving, to take care of yourself and follow what gives you peace in your heart and soul. - Shalom

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Well George, that is one that I definitely need to read.  Now putting it into practice is gonna be another thing entirely.  Sometimes I can be a hard woman, but most times I am butter in the sun.  Thanks for the book reminder.

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On 3/24/2017 at 9:25 AM, Froggie4635 said:

 I am contemplating becoming Jewish.

I sometimes criticize the Baptist, because I have always been one.  I mentioned my dad was one of three deacons in our little Missionary Baptist Church.  Sorry Kay, like I say, I am still Baptist, but looking to change, always have been, but not looking too hard.  As a child, I knew some of our "laws" were not actually fair to everyone and that sometimes (and I grew up with some strict family laws) it seemed my little church figured everyone was going to hell but them.  I mentioned also, when I was grown and back in  church again, our Southern Baptist Church was preaching about two religions, about the people going to hell, and I got my purse, stood up in front of the middle of this group of people and turned my back and walked out.  I don't remember going back.  (But I also do not remember getting out of bed this morning, but I did).  Could not go to sleep till 3:00 a.m., even with my "potion."  

Religion is another path we choose, just like faith, non-faith, or whatever way we choose to go.  If the Jewish faith makes you feel something (at this point feeling anything is wonderful), then you go your own path, and you leave your footprints, others may follow.  I tend toward the Catholic, have not studied it too much but did retire from two hospitals, one was Catholic, and I can still see that cross on the wall going in and out of my coma.  I remember the nun holding my hands and praying over me and a feeling of peace.  I don't know if it was my "peace that passes all understanding" or what it was.  I am still searching.  And, I will do what is right for me.  I might leave footprints also.

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My grief counselor gave me a tool quite  early on my journey which was a circle of intimacy. in the center was me. in the next circle were my two sons, followed by my grandchildren and so on. The  people  who gave me the most emotional  trouble were  found in the outer orbits around me. I realized  how unimportant  those people  were in my life and it helped me treat them as so. It amazed me how that helped me distance myself from the crap they would lay on me.

I still adjust that circle when somebody changes their behavior. 

Maryann  I believe that people closest  inside  our  circle of intimacy are there because we want them to be and they are worthy of being there. Too much contact may be keeping you from your own grief yet you take it for what it's worth. If you need the space then you take it. Fewer phone calls  might be the best way to start without hurting her feelings and allow you your space. I had to do that from time to time myself.  We take care of ourselves first.  we are the center of the  circle and there is room for only one person there.

The  thought of becoming Jewish made me smile because my partner of whom I was a pilot for was Jewish so on layovers I was part of the family. I did holidays with them and when she died I helped pray her into heaven with her family. She became my Jewish mother which would have made my very Catholic mom roll over un her grave I suppose.:unsure:  But damn do I miss all that.

It's never the religion but the worth of the people who practice it.

Mahalo

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I think this is all good advice.  Maryann, has anyone spoken to your MiL about counseling on her own for losing a child?  People can help each other thru grief, but your and her paths are vastly different.

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4 hours ago, KATPILOT said:

...Maryann  I believe that people closest  inside  our  circle of intimacy are there because we want them to be and they are worthy of being there. Too much contact may be keeping you from your own grief yet you take it for what it's worth. If you need the space then you take it. Fewer phone calls  might be the best way to start without hurting her feelings and allow you your space. I had to do that from time to time myself.  We take care of ourselves first.  we are the center of the  circle and there is room for only one person there...

You reminded me that I made that decision a year ago.  My sister would call every day after Rose Anne died to check up on me. If I missed calling her she would cal all frantic and worried that something happened. After awhile,  i felt obligated to call her. I love my sister but she would share all of her problems and worries.. There was little time to respond as she is a prolific talker.I realized that this began to bother me so I simply  and gently let her know that I didn't need to call her every day. I wasn't mean. It was a boundary that I needed to help me.  I text her daily during the week a scripture verse to encourage her and we talk on the phone about once a week. I also stop by to give her hug when I go visit my Dad.  Thanks, KATPILOT, I forgot about doing that.

Each of us needs to follow what gives us peace. - Shalom

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George, I have that book Boundaries, it is a good one!  We have to decide what is right for us and convey it to others and let them deal with themselves.  Gosh it can be hard when they emotionally react because we care about them, but knowing what is right and doing it frees us from their reaction, so to speak.

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