Gwenivere Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 My counselors told me to try and throw this new diagnosis out the window. Neither agree with it in any way. Grief, depression and PTSD are more than sufficient labels we get slapped with. All of us here had our lives so drastically altered, there are no words to adequately describe it to the outsiders. That is why I find some solace here. It’s a language we all understand when that line we were forced to cross with a brutal push. We all speak it fluently as a right of passage. Grief will forever be in us. I don’t know about define, but it’s such a big part of me now that will never leave. It pops up in the normal ways and now ways I never thought. I couldn’t throw out a supplement bottle for the dogs we refilled because Steve wrote their names on it. I refill it from new bottles. There are times the love I have for him feels negative only because of the unspeakable pain. A side of love I never knew existed in this way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieron Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Gwenivere said: There are times the love I have for him feels negative only because of the unspeakable pain. A side of love I never knew existed in this way. 7 hours ago, Johnny said: How can the deepest love which results in the deepest loss be considered in a negative way? The writer in me appreciates the way these ideas are framed. I can feel the beginning of a poem stirring. I won't think about it too much for fear of scaring it off. I just might borrow from both of your comments 😏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 Johnny, it is perhaps impossible to see from their perspective right now...it takes so much time to process our grief, it took me years, it really is a process. You are at the beginning of that and can't see beyond where you are feeling now, how could you? Little by little, so gradual as to seem imperceptible, it begins to sink into our being and we adjust to the changes this means for our lives...it's impossible to see right now, but we adjust, we learn to cope, we learn about grief. I did not have a clue in the beginning. People who have not experienced it cannot begin to understand. All of society's cliches, preconceived ideas, and platitudes are not only nothing, worse than that, they can be hurtful. They don't know. YOU know. You are living it, breathing it. It may be a little soon for you to absorb what this class has, a lot of times people wait for a time before going to grief support groups for the same reason. I would say it is not our grief that defines us as much as the love we share/d...I don't like to leave that as past tense because the love continues, but in different form. No longer can he physically hold me or talk over our day. No longer can we go for drives or can I cook him his favorite meals. No longer can we cuddle on the couch and watch a movie. No longer can we snuggle up in bed. BUT we do still love each other...from the vast expanses of where his spirit is...to the here and now of my everyday life, we still love each other. We still know each other. And if he could come back but for a second, I could finish his sentences or thoughts even as he could finish mine. I would hate to think that the beautiful wonderful magical love that we found with each other could become anything negative, THAT is what I choose to define me, how he has affected my life for the good, and that continues! The positive way he touched my life, the things I learned from him, those continue and I take them with me. No I do not fear we are entering mental illness as we grieve, although some looking in at us might fear it...we are grieving. It was unimaginable to us before it happened, then it becomes our living hell as we are trapped in this against our wishes...little by little we learn to experience existence on its own terms, and eventually to create our life on our own terms, barring this one thing that we would really desire, of course. I have learned to co-exist with my grief. It is ever with me, and will be with me until I draw my last breath. I think of my George each and every day of my life. I talk to him, sometimes aloud, sometimes in my mind, but he is never far from me, he is with me still. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenK Posted March 28, 2019 Report Share Posted March 28, 2019 Kay, You have so eloquently expressed what many of us are feeling. Each of us feel a love and a loss that extends over time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margm Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 On 3/22/2019 at 1:27 PM, mittam99 said: I was with Tammy for 15 years. To some of you who were together with your mates much longer, that may not seem like a long time. My very close friend (we grew up together and married best friends within three days of each other), she lost her first husband (our friend), the father of her two children after about 40 years of marriage. Her grief was anger and torture. She remarried two years later and was married to him for 15 years with him passing right before this new year. Her grief is equal or more, how do you measure grief? I don't think you can measure by years. I was him, he was me, so maybe he is still me. I do not think number of years defines your grief. If you did not love greatly, you would not grieve greatly. We cannot measure, compare, or even understand what path any of us have to walk. We just understand you have a loss, we all have a loss, it is ours to bear. And, my heart goes with each of you, and I know that cannot help, but I grieve too. I reach over on the car seat just to imagine my hand on his leg. I reach up just to feel his high cheekbones. I am him. He is me. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenivere Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Very very true, Marg. I just posted in another topic I know I won’t find another love in this life because I know me. I know what it takes for me and it couldn’t happen. But yes, grief is not defined by years. It is the he is me and the me is him. Half is gone. I am not complete. I’ve had over 4 years of finding out. We are all different as my mother remarried too. She was 20 years younger than me tho. She refused to speak of my father. She lied to us all about an aunt she called a dear friend (his sister) that I found out when she contacted me after my mom’s death. She didn’t know she hid her from us. All I learned from her was about thier relationship which was inter interesting, but really meant nothing as I was 1 when he died. The pain was too deep for her. My stepfather was fantastic and my true father. I knew no other. Life and death create so many ways to experience it. What our minds and and hearts can endure and keep going. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margm Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Gwen, I'm glad you loved your step-father, who was in fact a real father. My granddaughter thought of Billy as the only dad she ever knew and they loved each other dearly. So do I. Family is what and who you make them. DNA does not really matter at all. After all Billy was my closest relative. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Grief, depression and PTSD are more than sufficient labels we get slapped with. All of us here had our lives so drastically altered, there are no words to adequately describe it to the outsiders. ..............................(Gwen)..I saw or heard something that Grief is similar to Survivor Guilt.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenivere Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 IIf survivor guilt means I can’t find a purpose in life anymore, then I have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margm Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 Purpose has many meanings. You happen to be one of my purposes. So, just being a purpose for someone else, that is still a purpose. My life is enriched by so many of you. You all are my purposes and when we lose one of those purposes, it is like the old poem I quote all the time. Gwen, I swear, if I could get to you, we could at least explore different kinds of tea. My granddaughter samples different teas all the time. Her thyroid condition makes her tired all the time. She is on an antidepressant and for the first time in her life, twice, I heard her say she felt good. She deals with the thyroid constantly though, (hypothyroid) since she was eight years old. I will be freezing, she will be sweating. We've learned to cope. I put on a flannel shirt as a jacket even in the summer. Her numbers, by laboratory statistics are in normal range, but sometimes that does not mean a thing. I have to put the poem back. It is as old as time itself and has always meant so much to me, all my life, not just since Billy left, even in high school. For Whom the Bell Tolls by John Donne (1572-1631) No man is an island, Entire of itself. Each is a piece of the continent, A part of the main.If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less. As well as if a promontory were. As well as if a manor of thine own Or of thine friend's were. Each man's death diminishes me, For I am involved in mankind. Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls, It tolls for thee. If something happens to any of you................I am the less. We love you dear Gwen, you are a strong woman. You don't want to be, but your indomitable fighting spirit through pain, mental and physical, your focus on the nursing homes so many years, you may not like what I say, or believe it, but you are one of God's special Angels. You have always had a purpose. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyT Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Marg M said: It is as old as time itself and has always meant so much to me, all my life, not just since Billy left, even in high school. Me, too, dear Marg. Me, too ♥️ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPB Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 I have an argument from time to time with my counselor where she says I have survivor guilt and I say no I don't have guilt, I just don't want to live without her. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenivere Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 I know what you are saying, Marg. But we all know that 'special' purpose is what we had with our beloved. So many great people here that mean the world to me. Oh, but to have that one purpose back. It's Saturday night, my worst blues night. Sounds like your grand daughter has hyperthyroidism. I’m dealing with the opposite. I only get hot spells from the nicotine replacements I’m using. The thyroid screws everything up no matter which way it goes. It’s a heck of thing to get stabilized. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margm Posted March 31, 2019 Report Share Posted March 31, 2019 Sometimes I still get "carried away" and write too much. I've tried to correct that, but it still happens. Tom, I know your circumstances, and I think with us all having different circumstances of losing our loved ones we all suffer some from survivor's guilt. How can we not? We are still here, they are gone, and there were no circumstances of them leaving us that we want to accept. Now over 40 months gone, sometimes I still cannot believe it. It was supposed to be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPB Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 On 3/31/2019 at 1:53 PM, Marg M said: Sometimes I still get "carried away" and write too much. I've tried to correct that, but it still happens. Tom, I know your circumstances, and I think with us all having different circumstances of losing our loved ones we all suffer some from survivor's guilt. How can we not? We are still here, they are gone, and there were no circumstances of them leaving us that we want to accept. Now over 40 months gone, sometimes I still cannot believe it. It was supposed to be me. Sure, Marg, but I don't see that being unable to accept losing Susan is "guilt". Makes no sense to me. I can feel pain without being guilty. 2 yr went as well as could be hoped. Went to river with friend and threw shells from Susan's shell collection in the water and talked about her. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 I don't think I have survivor's guilt...I think it was hard being the survivor! I'm glad George didn't have to go through this, I'd rather it be me than him because I love him too much to want that for him, but oh God it's hard sometimes! Last night I had one of my cries, something I don't do very often anymore, but the missing him was just too great to hold in. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margm Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 2 hours ago, TomPB said: Tom, I know your circumstances, and I think with us all having different circumstances of losing our loved ones we all suffer some from survivor's guilt. Sorry Tom. Know we do not all feel the same way. My near death the year before, my family's thinking that I was leaving, and then to have Billy go instead definitely made me think "it should have been me." Do not think we all suffer the same things but one common denominator being grief. However we describe our own, or no description at all, it is what it is. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mittam99 Posted April 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 In the sense that the definition of survivor's guilt (in our context) is "feeling guilty for living while our beloved is gone", I don't believe I have it. I certainly have feelings of guilt that I could have done things differently and maybe things would have been different. But, I can balance that with the absolute fact that my intention was always to help Tammy feel/get better. It's just so hard getting older in solitude, without companionship and without love. The days are long and I have way too much time to let my mind wander. And mostly, my mind wanders to depressing places. Thinking about my future alone. Because for me, as much as I dread this loneliness and boredom, Tammy was my one and only. I simply can't imagine myself with someone else. Well, sometimes I do imagine being with someone else and then reality sets in. That's not happening. In recent months my journey has hit a wall. I'm having a hard time getting motivated. I'm not exercising or eating right like I was. I'm fighting it, but apathy is trying to take over. Is it inevitable that my life will never see joy again? The whole Groundhog Day of the same old, same old dull routine is starting to wear out it's welcome. I wish I had the fix for this. Life does feel like it's passing me by and some of it is my own doing. I know I need to fight this feeling and push myself but there are times I can barely get out of bed. It's pretty clear I'm a bit depressed. The 30 degree April temps and gloomy gray skies around here aren't helping my mood either. Anyway, if you've read this, thanks for reading and sorry for the non-upbeat post. Mitch 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenivere Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 No guilt here either. Nothing I. would have changed in our situation. I wish it had been me. Not for lack of love for Steve, actually the opposite. We both agreeed whoever was left got the worst deal and free to handle it any way possible, even if it was following. Counseling feels useless except I get a couple hours a week to feel the pain fully with another human being. All I say these days is I don’t wannt to do this life anymore without him. Mitch, apathy is the perfect word. The days, weeks, months pass by and I feel less and less a part of life. It keeps changing and flowing, but I’m not in it. I try, but this isolation of the heart and soul is so huge. So much more time alone. What I am waiting for? Together we just lived. We didn’t think about that. Now it’s all robotic, and getting more physically limited, I see my world shrinking even more. I can’t clean most my house for us or car for me. Things that made me feel good. I know life is ever changing, I just thought we’d watch that together for longer. Being 58 and 62 at the time I feel very robbed. Yesterday while looking for new shoes I saw our Penney’s is closing. I’m so frigging sensative I felt deep despair. We always bought our jeans there. I’d use the men’s dressing room with him. It was fun. So I got home with shoes that don’t help my back pain and saw another staple from our time disappearing. There is hardly anything left that was around when we were together. Just about every store and restaurant is now gone. So between those and him, it’s a world I don’t recognize. It’s like moving to a different city all alone. I don’t want to live alone without him. I’m tired of being in love alone. I’m tired of Groundhog Day Grief. I’m tired of the truth I can’t runaway from. I look to the future and see nothing. I’ve been asked if I got this serious back surgery, wouldn’t that help for motivation? Well, less pain would be nice, but I’d still be alone facing the other maladies to keep this body functional. I don’t know how to heal a broken heart. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gin Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 Gwen, If you ever figure out how to heal a broken heart, let us all know!! Post it in Capital letters. Gin 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 17 hours ago, mittam99 said: I certainly have feelings of guilt that I could have done things differently and maybe things would have been different. I think most of us experience some of that. Hopefully with time we can ease up on ourselves...hindsight brings clarity but we're human and not operating with foreknowledge, we did the best we could and had knowledge of. I've often wondered, "What if I had FORCED him to go to a different doctor?" The one he had did not explore his symptoms which were of heart trouble and he had family history of. But in looking back, I didn't know that...but his doctor should have caught it. Still, it may have ended the way it did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPB Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 My friend Mara sure is not suffering from PGD. She is at about 16 months and told me this morning that she's grieving by having sex and shopping. I'm not saying anything about that. just reporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mittam99 Posted April 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 Thanks for the report Tom. 🙂 Sounds similar to my brother in law's brother who lost his wife of 30-some years to cancer a while back. He also had no issue with PGD, clearly. He was on the hunt for "hot young women" six months after she died. It's painfully obvious that those of us that post here had relationships that were rare and beautiful and full of real, unending love. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieron Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 I hope it's OK to post YouTube videos (although it doesn't appear as anything more than a link below). This song came to my attention, and these lyrics in particular moved me tremendously. It speaks to those rare and beautiful relationships you mention, Mitch. "Nobody Knows" written by Wesley Schultz, performed by The Lumineers. "Love is deep as the road is long, It moves my feet to carry on, Beats my heart when you are gone, Love is deep as the road is long." https://youtu.be/6q5Zn_ZkehM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mittam99 Posted April 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 Kieron, here's the embedded version. Hope that's OK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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