Kieron Posted March 25, 2020 Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 30 minutes ago, Gwenivere said: I often feel I’ve been cut in half again. There's another well-turned phrase that captures the feelings. Love it! 😍 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dre' Posted March 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 I know that feeling of feeling like this is the end...or at least the beginning of the end.....I must also say that before my husband passed I never really had a feeling like that.....I was a real contender and always trying to spread hope..... Now I am in hiding and feel like the earth could split at any moment and swallow the kids and I.... I am sorry to hear that your health is deteriorating. I hope you at least have meds to offer relief for your condition.... Even sorrier that you lost your "Lancelot".... I wish I had pearls of wisdom to impart but I am into this day 89 now as it's pass 1am....and it seems as if you're been living with this ugly monster "grief" for a while now......I honestly can't say where people find the strength from to survive such a devastating blow as to lose their spouse and still go on and piece things together.... and even inspire others. I can't speak for the rest of the world but I know what my husband and I shared was magic..... it was and still is crucial and integral to my being. I have noooo clue as to how to make it through this horror and it takes everything out of me. I wish I could tell you something like I hang on for my kids' sake but it is not that. They are miserable and express that several times a day.....so they too see the pushing through meaningless days, as just existing.... but here we are still standing..... not sure whether to be grateful for this or ticked off..... we are here nonetheless..... This grief experience is merciless and horrific, it's difficult any way you dice it....so try to be kind to yourself......will keep you in my prayers❣ 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted March 26, 2020 Report Share Posted March 26, 2020 15 hours ago, Dre' said: what my husband and I shared was magic..... it was and still is crucial and integral to my being. Hold onto that...I do, I know it has to last me a lifetime, what we shared was beautiful and if I never have love again, at least I know I have been loved fully and it has to carry me. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dre' Posted April 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 Dearest Kayc....☺️ I am hanging on for dear life....but can't help but wonder WHY?....? Am I a sucker for punishment or just in "autopilot" right now and being overwhelmed is my constant state of mind and being......meaning I don't know how to react...... I often feel that those memories and all that love is more hurtful than anything else....the goodness of it is the very thing that tears the kids and I up into microscopic pieces.....over and over again..... does that make sense???? That those memories only make us cry cause we know we can never have them again....and don't even understand why. I know.....nobody said life was or is fsir but something this catastrophic should come with some type of sense if not an instructional kit of how to deal with the aftermath that somehow became my life....when life decided to happen......one very unsuspecting evening...... I am really glad for you that you posess that type of strength to continue with those memories and love and come to terms with ......you have reached your ration of all that goodness for this lifetime. Your response inspires me that some of us lost in this sea of grief are able to negotiate the waves and heal our "ouchies"...... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyT Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Dre' said: I am hanging on for dear life....but can't help but wonder WHY?....? Why? Why Me? Searching for Answers in Grief ❤️ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widow'15 Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Dre' said: I am hanging on for dear life....but can't help but wonder WHY?....? Am I a sucker for punishment or just in "autopilot" right now and being overwhelmed is my constant state of mind and being......meaning I don't know how to react...... Dre': I wish I could give you an answer to "Why?" you and your dear children had to experience this tragic loss. I doubt there is an answer to why any of us here had to say goodby to a dear husband. I do believe that you are not being punished. As I look back over the years without my husband the only way I got through my days is I tried to get through each minute, then get through the next minute the best I could. There are still days I feel as if I don't want to go on, but my small family would be devastated if I gave up. Just keep hanging on for dear life, Dre'. Best thoughts and Hugs to you and your children. Dee 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenK Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 Dre, I'm so very sorry for your loss. Almost 7 years ago, I was much as you are right now. The unthinkable happened. My husband died, the person I had spent more than half my life beside. I was in a hole I couldn't climb out of. I found this forum and all here helped save my sanity and life. A year later, my daughter died. I probably almost lost my mind. The "why" was because they each lost their battle with cancer. The "why them" will never be answered. I sat with each one until their last breath. Watching my daughter die was by far the hardest thing I've ever done. I'm not sure we ever accept what's happened, but somehow we adapt. I am still standing, not ready to give up the only life there is now. I hope in time your pain will lessen. You wonder why you're hanging on. I believe it's for your two precious children. You are stronger than you think. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 15 hours ago, Dre' said: I am hanging on for dear life....but can't help but wonder WHY? We hold on to give it a chance...to adjust, to see a glimmer of hope, to learn how to cope. Your thread title asks if the rest of your life will be this bad...the answer is no. The intensity of pain you're in right now will lessen, thankfully, we couldn't handle it if it didn't. I'll be honest though, there's a certain amount we have to learn to live with. It won't be overnight, it's a slow process, it takes a long time for this to sink in, let alone begin adjusting. I felt I processed most of it in the first three years, although I continued my progression in the years since. Some are at five years and still struggling...we are all different as are our relationships, coping skills, it depends on a lot of variables, even our family placement can affect how we handle this! Our own temperament, personality. I've always been independent and that helped me but George and I were everything to each other so our relationship was different, say, than my kids' dad and I who were married 23 years. Some had foreknowledge, living with anticipatory grief, whereas ours was sudden. Every situation is hard and incomparable. Our losses are unique but enough similarities to relate to each other. You will find your purpose here probably years on down the road. Mine is being here for others going through this. And my incentive right now is my puppy...without which I don't know how I'd handle this after losing not only my husband, mom, sister, pets, but my companion dog, Arlie and 25 year old cat, Kitty, these last few months. We find what works for us, what brings us comfort. And we come to understand that everything we feel/think is "normal" for grief...this place is very validating. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 15 hours ago, Dre' said: those memories only make us cry cause we know we can never have them again For now they make you cry, later on down the road after you've had more time to process your grief, those same memories will likely bring you a smile...once the most immense pain has settled... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimJim Posted April 1, 2020 Report Share Posted April 1, 2020 I keep asking myself over and over again, and others always keep telling me not to worry, as the pain will lessen with time, I tell them that I may have missed something in the process of my Grief, in that in how they know this, and I don't? Time may heal a cut or a bruise, but it will never heal a broken heart, my condolences to you all for the lost of someone most cherished! but losing My Nancy, I am unrecoverable, and the truth is I wish to remain so, not that I wish to remain in mourning, quite the opposite, I believe that what I carry with me when I leave this earth will lead me to where I wish to go, and that will be straight to my Nancy, for I also believe that she is grieving there without me, born Souls together that happened to cross this earth at the same time, I want Nancy to know that I cried for her every day, that I had to be here without her, it is with this that will take me to her, I think people tell me to adjust, to make it easier for them, and to each their own!! As for me, I will remain in sorrow till reunited with My Love. With deep respect to you all, Jim and Nancy 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dre' Posted April 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 Dear Jim..... A broken heart indeed. I know that everyone grieves differently and our experiences are all unique, but I can honestly say I know how you feel. We simply can't be fixed, there is no prayer or mantra or tablet or vaccine to cure what we have. That isn't a pessimistic view it's just the truth and reality of our reality.....I have never been good or comfortable with fibbing......nor have I ever had to convince myself that I can get through the hour and hopefully the next day too..... not sure that this heavy feeling could ever be lifted only because my love for my husband could never diminish....not in this life or the next..... and for as long as I love him I will miss him and for as long as that goes on I will forever be longing to be in his arms once again..... It is the only salvation I can muster....and solace I can find in this darkness that has now become my kids my lives..... Much love and light to you all lost in this sea of grief....may you all find strength and peace one way or another..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 15 hours ago, JimJim said: losing My Nancy, I am unrecoverable You are right, there is no recovering from this, only learning to live with the unthinkable that has infiltrated our lives. 15 hours ago, JimJim said: I think people tell me to adjust, to make it easier for them You are so right about this also, but it's not about them (I'd personally remind them of that, but that is me), it's about you and you will go through this YOUR way. Anything that can bring you solace & comfort. Praying for you to have your sought after strength and peace... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Dre' said: not sure that this heavy feeling could ever be lifted only because my love for my husband could never diminish Your love doesn't diminish because the intensity of pain subsides, it takes a long time to get there but as we process our grief it becomes less shocking and we adjust to the changes it means for our lives...our love never diminishes, nor does our missing them. I know it's hard, if not impossible, for you to understand this right now, but it will take its course in due time. We aren't made to handle this kind of pain long term hence our bodies naturally adjust, it's part of the wonder we're made with to be resilient. Your love nor his will never abate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimJim Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 I cannot stop crying, I cannot stop wishing to go back in time, it's not fair that the rest of the world goes on, as if nothing has happened, all of our friends that were supportive in the start, have now moved on, as if this is all in the past, and no longer applies any longer, I try to reach out to them and they no longer have the time to talk about My Nancy, its just not important to them any longer. This is my life, and still is, My life came to an end, My family no longer here, how are you supposed to adjust to that, everything you have known and Loved and lived for, gone in an instant, all the feelings inside of you erased away, just so dead inside, that I only feel numb! No reaction to anything any longer, No joy, No hope, not anything, I wish I could just disappear, it's been over a year, and only seems to be getting worse, everyday I wake up and say what for? My only prize in life was to hear her voice each morning, and to hold her each night, I knew what I was living for, now I wake up only to breathe and exist, nothing more, there is no more quality to life, all gone in an instant!! Thank you for allowing me to speak, stops me from crying, just for a moment! Have a good day everyone, Best Wishes!! Jim and Nancy!! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dre' Posted April 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 Dear Jim, Sorry that you are in such turmoil and that you aren't able to move forward or through this. I know how lonely it gets especially if the two of you have lived for each other....powered by each other. It does along with that special someone when they leave us. It is day 95 for my kids and I and it is truly not getting any easier or any lighter. It is not true that time lessens this heartache even though 95 days may seem like minutes compared to the rest of you guys it still feels like eternity multiplied by the depths of infinity ...... I know that it takes almost every fibre to get out of bed and try to hold it all together, but when the ugliness of the night surfaces, it mercilessly takes us apart...one thought at a time...one memory after another, latching onto a life that can never "be" except in our dreams(if we can stay asleep long enough)..... we come undone and truly go to pieces (at least I do every night).... then try to rebuild myself in the morning, and live this "new" life as if is stuck on repeat somehow..... The reason for doing it all again and again is probably because that is how we humans are hard wired......to survive..... but I get it ....we all do.....surviving isn't enough....especially if we were sooo ALIVE and full of hope and all things good..... prior to this life changing horrific "thing" that occured and left us mortified forever.... I guess we keep standing because we are either to scared to do anything else or we understand that no matter how much or how little support we can get from friends and family.....people move on and that's ok as it is just us who are left with these stained souls ....but through that harsh reality we know that we only truly have ourselves to fall back on and we are standing alone on this threshold to deal with this pain..... so we keep standing even if it feels like it's the last thing we are able to do.... one year and you're still standing Jim....it has to count for something....... gentle thoughts..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenivere Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 6 hours ago, kayc said: Your love doesn't diminish because the intensity of pain subsides, it takes a long time to get there but as we process our grief it becomes less shocking and we adjust to the changes it means for our lives...our love never diminishes, nor does our missing them. I know it's hard, if not impossible, for you to understand this right now, but it will take its course in due time. We aren't made to handle this kind of pain long term hence our bodies naturally adjust, it's part of the wonder we're made with to be resilient. Your love nor his will never abate. I think that there are times this holds true, but I have also discovered it can come roaring back (I’m there right now) because it gets triggered in some way. I am feeling things that I haven’t as I’ve 'adapted' over the years. The added isolation hasn’t helped, but that and severe health issues have awoken that intensity. Things I would have never had to face alone. I’ve overcome so many changes to handle alone, but I’ve reached a place that has a wall too high for me to get over. Too high to do alone. I’ve really looked at it from every possible angle. There are solutions, but they are so frightening. The only thing that would help is Steve being here. So I feel trapped. I’ve reverted to the beginning when having to do something simply I never had was a challenge. This one is huge beyond one either of us ever had to make alone. 5 years and I’m as helpless as when it began. Add in the pressure I have to do something to solve it when I just want to curl up, say enough is enough and disappear. I agree we weren’t meant to endure this kind of pain, but it happens. That’s when people make dire choices. Sometimes fatal. It’s being addressed because of this virus. Mental health is now being looked at very seriously. Grief has been here forever and that is not shared as a community/global threat so we are, IMO, doubly challenged. When things go back to normal, whatever that will be as this is going to have long lasting impact, we will still be essentially left behind as always. They won’t create a TSA screening for grief a they did for air travel. People will still forget and say things and give unsolicited opinions and advice that haven’t got a clue. Worse yet, I know some that think we are better prepared for this forced isolation. If they only truly knew. 😢 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenivere Posted April 2, 2020 Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 You made some excellent points in your post, Dre. Don’t downplay your grief to anyone else’s. 95 days or 10 years, the pain and void will always exist. None of us are better off because of time really. We just have more time experiencing it. Maybe get some tolerable days, but all in all, we are all lonely for that love that cannot becreplaced and yes, for me, the night is the worst. Longer time just emphasizes what we lost. At your point I was still in shock mode so going forward is when the reality stepped in and brought new feelings and challenges. Not saying this to scare you, just to validate your grief as just as important as everyone else’s. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dre' Posted April 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2020 Dear Gwenivere...... I didn't want to be the total pessimist by being realistic. This grief is here to stay....whether it changes along the way it never leaves..... no justification will ever suffice or offer solace even if every God descended to earth to sit each one of us down and explained it all... we would never be satisfied or whole again. The question is how far can we go with this new broken person we are? Yes people who have not experienced this say very dumb things and I already have grown tired of telling myself that they mean well...... surely on some level they should be aware of what they are saying.....but they make it about them and how they can feel comfortable around us.....as if we are going to get our "sad" all over them...as if it were as contagious as COVID 19...... People only pay attention and take note when they are going through something first hand.....they are truly sorry for our pain though also grateful it is second hand to them....relieved even....I can't say I blame them for the latter....nobody would want to be us right now..... You're quite right....time is no friend...it only stretches the pain .... making the journey longer..... The loneliness of it all has to be the most sinister..... detest it.... I am alone in it all....from watching my kids cry daily for their dad and pining for him...to trying to eat dinner....at least..... it all is a constant reminder that he is not here for me to speak to..... A feeling that has attached itself to my very core..... Thank you for listening 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenivere Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 You are alone in your grief, but you still have part of your family you are now solely responsible for. That makes the weight of it even more. Your children have their grief which is different than yours. But you are in it together. What I hope for you is that while it has bound you all in pain, it will at some point bind you all tighter in the love you all share for him. Yes, outsiders are relieved. I was once one. So glad it was not me. That is gone. You do have choices going forward. The loneliness is sinister, good choice of a word. It’s cruel and cold. There still is warmth with your family. I hope you find it. It’s a life changing event you have now, hold into each other. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 15 hours ago, Dre' said: It is not true that time lessens this heartache even though 95 days may seem like minutes compared to the rest of you guys it still feels like eternity multiplied by the depths of infinity ...... Of course it does, you are in the early time, you have not had time to absorb this, let alone adjust. I say this to you because I want you to know, to have hope, that it won't always be this intense. Yes you will always miss him and your love continues. It took me years to process my grief. It's left a hole in my heart that is George-shaped. But I don't feel the intense pain that I did in that newness of grief. And yes when you're living it, every day is an eternity of pain. JimJim I am sorry people have moved on, they do, I lost every friend we had, his family too. It was amazing how quickly. I was forgotten and it seems he was too. I made new friends eventually. I have a number of widowed friends now that get it. It's like a club no one wants to join but I'm glad for each other's support and understanding. A lot of us thought the first year was as bad as it was going to get. It wasn't. I still wouldn't want to relive the day I lost him or those early days, there are no words to describe how horrific it was. But year two didn't seem to bring the relief I'd hoped for. I hadn't adjusted, was still frantic. I can't count the nights I cried myself to sleep. I rarely cry anymore, I think I cried myself out. But then 15 years is way different than 3 months or one year out. It takes time and much effort to come through this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayc Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 15 hours ago, Gwenivere said: I think that there are times this holds true, but I have also discovered it can come roaring back (I’m there right now) because it gets triggered in some way. You are going through things that keep it roaring...growing old alone is not for the fainthearted, esp. when you're dealing with no other family and friends and health issues that you are dealing with, it makes losing them all the harder in a real way. I know when I faced surgery totally alone, it hit hard, also going through that storm, and now in isolation. The contrast with how we know it WOULD be if they were here with us...that hits. Other things can trigger us even the rest of our lives. But I wouldn't trade my time now for early grief, nothing I've been through since has been as hard, not even losing my jobs or doing Christmas snowed in and alone. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimJim Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 So true about things that happen now, that have no effect on me, just a month ago our car caught fire, and just like that no car, then while staying at a Motel 6, had a priceless antique ring stolen, it was pricey, but that meant nothing, as it was the sentimental value, as this was a ring that Nancy had received from her Grandmother long ago, and dumb me gets it stolen, but even that had little effect on me, there isn't anything left in this world to hurt me, the worst has already happened, everything now just falls by the wayside. Losing Nancy, in essence I lost My world, never to be replaced, my only joy right now if you can call it that, is in knowing that I will be with her soon, a world without your one true soulmate, is not a world, it is merely a planet where you exist, I am not going to do anything drastic or anything like that, for now existing is all there is, but one day the Heavens will open up, and Nancy will come to me, lead me by the Heart, and never let me go, I don't plan to ever lose her anytime over again, our next reunion will be Everlasting. Thank you all for your kind words and thoughts, are truly appreciative!! Nancy and Jim P.S Nancy's sister wont even speak with me, because every time I sign off, I do so with Nancy and Jim, she told me are you always going to be Nancy and Jim, said you can be just Jim you know, I told her very politely, not for as long as I live and breathe, it will always be Nancy and Jim, another example of how soon people forget, even in your own family, I feel sorry for her for not being able to carry the Love, maybe I shouldn't judge, perhaps this is just her way of dealing with the loss, although when speaking with her is hard to tell, not my issue. Have a terrific day everyone, Thanks again for the listen, Always Nancy and Jim 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dre' Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Hi All, Everything you say rings true and holds logic...... the pain is paralyzing. All the things for me to do on this longggggg way we have to go the kids and I. I have heard a lot of people who try to sum up this grief thing saying stuff like we are all born alone and we don't need another person to affirm who we are and we are missing how that person made us feel and that is why we feel broken, and incapable of moving forward. I have to say that this has to be the most clueless summation I have ever heard. Grief isn't about being self absorbed, being hurt from actual pain and discomfort and misery of trying to conceptualize that a person could literally be well and fit in the day and then die on impact in an accident the very same evening. It is not something that can just be dealt with in a strategic or pragmatic way ...... this topic has been researched and dissected into every notion imaginable and still bobody has it pegged down..... that is because it is so perplexed and there is no right or wrong way to face this....we are all different. I myself am not an emotional person I am actually very practical and as unbiased and impartial as I can possibly be. This is the one thing that I have prayed for years to not happen to us, not sure why I prayed relentlessly over this but I think it's because I knew it's the one thing I could never recover from or even move forward from. I have never had a suicidal thought in my life but I often feel like this pain is sooooo intense that I could combust from it, and despite me being able to drag us to day 97 (today) I have no idea how. To hear both the kids sit at their dad's frame and beg him to take them to where he is, if he is unable to return home, those words pierce through me like a samurai sword, leaving me impaled, but mainly helpless because I know the alternative every one...os wothout him so it just won't do..... At times I literally feel like it is my last breath and my heart has taken as much as any one heart can take ..... I often feel like if I wasn't a rational being I would have ended us 3 on day one of this horror, just on impulse from the pain. I looked at it as a form of euthanasia or something similar, human is suffering is still human suffering. One is physical and tangible and the other is on the inside which can be a lot trickier..... I know this sounds crazy to some but according to my bereavement specialist it is apparently normal for us to feel like this right now as the shock has not dissipated yet..... I guess we really have no other choice butttt to take it one step at a time and 1 day at a time.....until the intensity subsides.... for now that is the most the kids and I can hope for....that this draining exhaustive feeling does in fact change to at least a notch down..... here's crossing fingers.....and toes Keep well all!!!! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyT Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 46 minutes ago, JimJim said: she told me are you always going to be Nancy and Jim, said you can be just Jim you know, I told her very politely, not for as long as I live and breathe, it will always be Nancy and Jim, another example of how soon people forget, even in your own family, Her reaction may stem from the commonly held misconception that you're somehow holding on to your grief. We used to think that refusing to "let go" of the dead meant that we were in denial. Today we've come to understand that it is normal ~ and indeed healthy ~ to nurture and to maintain a continuing bond with our loved ones who have died. Holding onto love (which never, ever dies) is not the same as holding onto grief. We must work hard to let go of the pain of loss, but we are never required to let go of the love we have for the one who has gone before us. ❤️ 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwenivere Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 10 hours ago, MartyT said: Holding onto love (which never, ever dies) is not the same as holding onto grief. We must work hard to let go of the pain of loss, but we are never required to let go of the love we have for the one who has gone before us. ❤️ Truer words were never spoken, as is said. I don’t know how many times people have misunderstood my feelings. Thinking I an doing something wrong by often citing the impact this has on every aspect of my life. Not expressed dramatically, just as a reminder that thing they do that are tough with thier mates is quite different were they to have to do them without. They just don’t factor that in as they don’t have to. I do often hear what a bummer something is, but (insert name here) and I will just have to get thru it. Rolls of their tongues so easily. I got an email ths morning from a friend whose knee surgery was cancelled, but his wife was there to help on the stuff he found too painful. I don’t have a backup for my pain tasks. Some of us that don’t have some family. My housekeeper is delayed til May. I changed my bed and vacuumed and don’t know if I could do that again. I can’t even fathom back surgery alone. I’m missing the motivation beyond possible pain relief. So I can live in this loneliness more easily? Physically yes, mentally, no. So I could change the half empty bed and vacuum the dog hair? Plod thru the days missing him that will never end? Point being, swayed off the trail there, that how we choose to savor and honor that love we were so fortunate to find is no one else’s business. When that line is crossed I do fight back to protect that. This is our life with and now without them. No one has a say in that but us. I get very protective and can cut the guise of 'caring' when I see they are just clueless, bored, think I am holding on too tight (that’s not conscious, it just is, I feel love), or looking for pity. Yeah, right. Why would I want that? Just acknowlogence this is something very deep and personal they cannot understand. I respect most the people that have told me that. The ones that from being around me and seeing the changes have said they view thier mate more. That is what I can pass along. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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