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Hi all,

  I don't know where else to vent or turn to, I normally deal with stuff on my own, but this..I need to vent and keeping a private life have no one to vent to, my kids don't need to hear this as I do not want them to look differently upon the woman I'm with and "engaged" to

  To start, she recently lost her father that meant the world to her and leading up to that she said, even in the beginning, he's her anchor and when he's gone she has no reason to be around, BUT she also told me in the beginning not to give up on her should this happen, and so I haven't....but it's hard, so hard, and getting harder, I believe she's worth it, we are worth it, I want to throw the towel in though and end this now before hate seeps in, and for the chance we may rekindle this, but I am in a relationship and enter every one as if it's for good and lifelong willing to fight till the end. I know this is lost love, but I feel what we had is now lost and it's only a matter of time now before that realization happens for her. 

  Up till recently, after the burial a few weeks ago, everything would point that we would survive this, she still insisted she is leaving but not leaving me, I've watched the intimacy deteriorate to almost nothing, she shows affection to those around her except me, she tells others she loves them, except me. One moment I think it's over with, as she pulls away I have been trying to think about her feelings and give her the space she's creating as right now it's all I know I can do, the I love you has stopped completely, the kisses good bye before work are almost there over the last day, I think it may now be a thing of the past as the I love you has become.  I watch and hear, when it's just us, alone, things are good, she's good, enter everyone else and it changes. 

  I do see a line of comparison between her father and I, been thinking maybe this is why she's pulling away? She lost 4 people close to her life every year for the past 4 years and has said she can't suffer losing another person she loves, could this be why?

  Little things she does now is what I look for as a sign if it's over or not, one moment she'll say "ours", I moved in with her leaving all I had behind, she'll talk about us, she'll talk to me as if we are not ending she's just still confused and trying to figure it all out, she texts me when she wants to share something, she inquires after me to make sure I have a plan for a dinner, the next moment she's talking about how she can't stand it here any longer and needs to go, needs to be single and alone, there's nothing here for her anymore and this is becoming stronger, I know from reading the forums that the chances of success for us is little to none and the break up is almost inevitable. 

  I have been on an emotional roller coaster now for weeks, ready to leave, ready to stay, feeling she cares, feeling she's starting to resent me, I know she's suffering on a different level and I firmly believe that it is useless for me to talk to her about my feelings as the last time I attempted to was when she told me she wanted to be alone and I tried to leave to give her space, after I tried to tell her I how I felt, the anger at the action of me leaving caused some very heated words from her which I let be as I figured it was part of the grieving and timing, but she said my trying to leave wouldn't change her mind if that's what I was trying to do, but we are still together, there was zero evidence that she even took what I was saying with any concern. 

   He's been gone now a few weeks but the relationship, which is a weak word to use is just not doing well. I am and have been there for her even though she has not turned to me for comfort, I've been doing little things to relieve the stress from her everyday life, cleaning, making sure she has breakfast, getting whatever she needs. I told her how much I was there for her and would be, I love you was often said by me, I know I gave up saying that, I couldn't find the strength to continue as I would say I love you to her and be met with silence, only to hear her say I love you to someone other than me. Her middle aged sons living with us in their early 30's she would say good night I love you..........to me, good night..... I feel guilty that I am even thinking this way, is it me? Just looking into this to much? To me love is love, we are engaged, should I not hear them words? I have children and I suffered loss as well, but never have I treated whoever I was with this cold.

  She use to brag that she finally found love and someone that cared for her unconditionally, she relished how others could see instantly that we had a connection that so very few had, she wore our love as a badge of honor. Even her own children would say how different I was from the other guys she was with, how thankful they are for me and how I treat her and what I do for her. Now I am starting to believe she keeps my ring on only cause she's use to wearing it or if she tries to go out with a friend for a drink to reduce the chance of other guys coming up to her. I know there is no answer, only time will answer this. I'm sorry, I just needed to let this out, we aren't young anymore...and I say that through the eyes of someone that's seen more than 40 years go by. 

   guess the only real question that can truly be answered, am I foolish for sticking this out and hoping..

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It's not my place to say whether a person is foolish or not for their decisions.  My intuitive sense is that she's testing you to see if you will leave, "like all the rest" that died and left her.  Trouble is, being blinded by her own pain, she's forgetting that those others are beyond all pain now and can't be affected by her actions; meanwhile a living and breathing man --you-- is being subjected to this weeks-long roller coaster, full of mixed messages and inconsistent behavior on her part.  She may be grieving but it doesn't excuse what you are describing.

 

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I hope that she comes to her senses but in the meantime you may want to carve out your own space somewhere else where you can retreat, if and when you decide you have have enough.

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15 hours ago, Lost and confused said:

she tells others she loves them, except me.

Hi, I am sorry you find yourself in this situation, through no fault of your own.  I don't know if you've read other threads in this section, but I have read and responded to all of them since this was created many years ago, and one thing I notice is a pattern (I'm a numbers/statistics/patterns person...I believe they tell us something, although where you see it you may see an exception...still, patterns speak a story).  What I have gotten from all of this is that there are a certain percentage of grievers that do not feel able to do a relationship while they are grieving.  As us grievers here realize, grief has a beginning, but not necessarily an ending.  It evolves over the course of our grief journey.  We love and miss that person/animal until the day we die, although we gradually begin to adjust to the changes it means to our lives.  Some people do not adjust very well, however, as it takes great effort on our parts as grievers, just at a time when we feel void of being able to do so.  We are very individual in how we handle it.  

Having said that, it sounds like your GF, or XGF, is one of those who is unable to do a relationship while grieving.  And when that happens, the likelihood of the person returning to the relationship as it was is extremely slim.  I recall one who made it through intact out of the hundreds who have told their story here.  I am one of these, I lost my fiance of a year when his mom was dying.  We had no contact for months, which allowed me time for healing and clarity, and when we resumed contact, he was obviously very conflicted and confused, not knowing his own mind, which was yanking me around all over the place, emotionally.  I realized this and guarded my heart, so rather than taking him seriously, which he had shown me I could not, I listened and let it go...rather than hanging on every word like he meant it...for he had no follow through or consistency with his words.  We were able to emerge as friends and are to this day, ten years later.  I had to realize the relationship as it was, was gone.  That was for my health and his, for we could not be friends while one of us was secretly hoping for something more, that could easily lead to manipulation, which would never work.  Nor would it be good to put my life on hold, waiting on the sidelines indefinitely.  I have not dated since, I'm nearly 68 and have been through much in my life, and I'm just kind of done with all of the letdowns and heartbreak...I figure if God has someone for me He is perfectly capable of bringing him into my life and if or when that happens, I will know.  So far, nada.  ;)  And that's okay too.  I've been alone a lot of years, I'm rather used to it, even if it never was my preference.

My advice is to give yourself priority, be your own best friend.  What would you tell your best friend in this situation?  Tell yourself that.  Spend time with family, friends, activities...I know, hard during the pandemic, but as much as possible.  Work on yourself and building your life.  But give her the space she needs to figure things out for herself.  

15 hours ago, Lost and confused said:

I feel guilty that I am even thinking this way, is it me? Just looking into this to much?

You are guilty of nothing.  She is for all intent and purposes gone.  The relationship as you knew it, gone with her grief.  It's not her fault, it's not your fault, it just is, a casualty of grief.

No one can tell you what you should do or feel, but I encourage you to read the other threads, the more you do, the more you'll see you are not at all alone in what you are going through.  I would venture to say this is a classic grief response for some.  Grief changes us, we are not the same for having encountered it...I have had much loss/grief in my life, the hardest being my beloved husband 15 years ago, the other hardest my sweet and loyal companion dog, 11 months ago, followed by the death of my 25 year old cat.  I mourn still and realize I will the rest of my life.  I allow myself to smile, to enjoy life, but deep inside I continue to miss those I've loved and lost, I have learned to coexist with my grief.

It can take professional grief counseling to make one's way through this.  Is she getting any help?  Even a grief support group might be helpful just so she realizes she's not alone in how she feels.

http://www.griefhealingblog.com/2014/08/grief-understanding-process.html
http://www.griefhealing.com/column-helping-another-in-grief.htm
https://www.gq.com/story/how-to-support-your-partner-through-grief

I want to mention, you can only be there for someone as much as they will allow you to.  You can do everything perfectly, give her needed space, wait the rest of your life...with no return.  This is unfair and unrealistic for you.  I highly recommend a no contact period of a few months to allow yourself a chance to heal, for you are also grieving, and to gain some clarity.

I do NOT feel she is testing you!  When they are grieving they have nothing within themselves to give to a relationship.  That explains why she can be with friends, etc. but not you.  Grievers can view a relationship as stress, feel guilty they aren't able to give anything to you or the relationship, so they retreat.  This is very common.  They often do not realize what they're doing or understand it themselves.  We can tell them we'll give them space, they will take it regardless, not to return to previous status.  I wish I had something more optimistic to report, I hope you're the big exception but I don't see it in the cards.

She is taking care of HER needs, please take care to do the same for YOUR needs.  Wishing you comfort and peace going forward...

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7 hours ago, kayc said:

Hi, I am sorry you find yourself in this situation, through no fault of your own.  I don't know if you've read other threads in this section, but I have read and responded to all of them since this was created many years ago, and one thing I notice is a pattern (I'm a numbers/statistics/patterns person...I believe they tell us something, although where you see it you may see an exception...still, patterns speak a story).  What I have gotten from all of this is that there are a certain percentage of grievers that do not feel able to do a relationship while they are grieving.  As us grievers here realize, grief has a beginning, but not necessarily an ending.  It evolves over the course of our grief journey.  We love and miss that person/animal until the day we die, although we gradually begin to adjust to the changes it means to our lives.  Some people do not adjust very well, however, as it takes great effort on our parts as grievers, just at a time when we feel void of being able to do so.  We are very individual in how we handle it.  

Having said that, it sounds like your GF, or XGF, is one of those who is unable to do a relationship while grieving.  And when that happens, the likelihood of the person returning to the relationship as it was is extremely slim.  I recall one who made it through intact out of the hundreds who have told their story here.  I am one of these, I lost my fiance of a year when his mom was dying.  We had no contact for months, which allowed me time for healing and clarity, and when we resumed contact, he was obviously very conflicted and confused, not knowing his own mind, which was yanking me around all over the place, emotionally.  I realized this and guarded my heart, so rather than taking him seriously, which he had shown me I could not, I listened and let it go...rather than hanging on every word like he meant it...for he had no follow through or consistency with his words.  We were able to emerge as friends and are to this day, ten years later.  I had to realize the relationship as it was, was gone.  That was for my health and his, for we could not be friends while one of us was secretly hoping for something more, that could easily lead to manipulation, which would never work.  Nor would it be good to put my life on hold, waiting on the sidelines indefinitely.  I have not dated since, I'm nearly 68 and have been through much in my life, and I'm just kind of done with all of the letdowns and heartbreak...I figure if God has someone for me He is perfectly capable of bringing him into my life and if or when that happens, I will know.  So far, nada.  ;)  And that's okay too.  I've been alone a lot of years, I'm rather used to it, even if it never was my preference.

My advice is to give yourself priority, be your own best friend.  What would you tell your best friend in this situation?  Tell yourself that.  Spend time with family, friends, activities...I know, hard during the pandemic, but as much as possible.  Work on yourself and building your life.  But give her the space she needs to figure things out for herself.  

You are guilty of nothing.  She is for all intent and purposes gone.  The relationship as you knew it, gone with her grief.  It's not her fault, it's not your fault, it just is, a casualty of grief.

No one can tell you what you should do or feel, but I encourage you to read the other threads, the more you do, the more you'll see you are not at all alone in what you are going through.  I would venture to say this is a classic grief response for some.  Grief changes us, we are not the same for having encountered it...I have had much loss/grief in my life, the hardest being my beloved husband 15 years ago, the other hardest my sweet and loyal companion dog, 11 months ago, followed by the death of my 25 year old cat.  I mourn still and realize I will the rest of my life.  I allow myself to smile, to enjoy life, but deep inside I continue to miss those I've loved and lost, I have learned to coexist with my grief.

It can take professional grief counseling to make one's way through this.  Is she getting any help?  Even a grief support group might be helpful just so she realizes she's not alone in how she feels.

http://www.griefhealingblog.com/2014/08/grief-understanding-process.html
http://www.griefhealing.com/column-helping-another-in-grief.htm
https://www.gq.com/story/how-to-support-your-partner-through-grief

I want to mention, you can only be there for someone as much as they will allow you to.  You can do everything perfectly, give her needed space, wait the rest of your life...with no return.  This is unfair and unrealistic for you.  I highly recommend a no contact period of a few months to allow yourself a chance to heal, for you are also grieving, and to gain some clarity.

I do NOT feel she is testing you!  When they are grieving they have nothing within themselves to give to a relationship.  That explains why she can be with friends, etc. but not you.  Grievers can view a relationship as stress, feel guilty they aren't able to give anything to you or the relationship, so they retreat.  This is very common.  They often do not realize what they're doing or understand it themselves.  We can tell them we'll give them space, they will take it regardless, not to return to previous status.  I wish I had something more optimistic to report, I hope you're the big exception but I don't see it in the cards.

She is taking care of HER needs, please take care to do the same for YOUR needs.  Wishing you comfort and peace going forward...

I echo everything Kayc has said here. I can vouch for all of this, as I have been both the griever and the dumpee of the griever.

My ex-fiance, Joe, almost left me (as he was right to do) after I had lost both my grandfather and best friend in the span of a year. I abandoned our relationship, emotionally and otherwise because I didn't know what else to do. I was hurt, confused, lost and severely depressed, and everything else in my life fell by the wayside. I almost lost my job, twice, because I couldn't focus, was constantly distracted or would call-in multiple times a week. I also dropped out of school for the semester because I started not showing up to class. But I tried to maintain in front of my friends because I didn't want them to know how broken and hopeless I felt inside. Joe expressed the same confusion, hopelessness, anger and hurt that you are. It is all 100% valid and you are right to feel that way, as she has in a way abandon you, and it is a difficult pill to swallow. He gave me an ultimatum (which I do not recommend you do, its just what he did as an absolute last resort because again, he was trying to hold on and salvage the ship, I wasn't, but I wasn't ready to let him go. I was just being horrendously selfish, hurtful and terrible to him, even if it wasn't intentional), and basically said that until I go to therapy and address my problems, we were effectively over. I was resentful of him at first, because I felt betrayed, like he was abandoning me when I needed him and that he didn't understand my pain. When really, I had already abandoned him and us, and was just leading him into darkness with no intention of ever finding the light and was careless towards the pain I was causing him, because I had retreated inward, and only my feelings and hurt mattered. I started going to therapy to address my underlying issues that my grief had brought to the surface, along with the grief itself. We stayed together for a couple more years, but it irreparably damaged our relationship and Joe admitted that even after I had started to seem normal again (about a year later) he still felt mistrust, resentment and as if he'd done something wrong.

My bf of 14 months, Tim left me suddenly after his dad died. Not a word, text or even to tell me his dad had died. His brother told me. He didn't respond to my calls or texts until I tracked him down and made him tell me why I hadn't heard from him in over a week. He said he was sorry, he loved me and didn't want to break up, but that he just needed a few days to be alone. Then I didn't hear from him for 3 months. I concluded our relationship was over, and as heartbroken as I was, began to move forward. He then sends me a text, 3 months later explaining that he went on auto-pilot, got severely depressed and the days just blurred together and he buried himself in work and his friends hoping it would lessen his grief. He asked if id be open to reconciling. I was skeptical, hurt, untrusting and resentful of the pain he caused, but agreed because I was still in love with him and was hopeful he'd come back and we could move forward. Another few months passed and things seemed to be getting better, until one day he told me he loved me as we left his apartment to go to work, he then stood me up for dinner later that night and we haven't spoken since. That was 4.5 years ago. My life is completely different now, I am different and I have learned to focus on myself and my needs instead of constantly being a giver and a pleaser, trying to fix others, and holding onto empty promises and sweet nothings. I haven't been in a relationship since and I have done more with my life and time than I ever thought I could, and its given me the clarity, peace and self-reliance I used to believe a relationship would. So in a way, I am grateful for the silver lining my experiences have given me.

It's not you, it's them. I cannot stress this enough. I know it is extremely hard not to take personally, because you watch the person you love, your relationship, and yourself become unrecognizable in the process of trying to hold on, help them, hoping it will work out and yearning for them to come back. But even if physically they are present, mentally they are not and you are all but invisible to them, and you're left sitting, waiting, hoping that eventually they'll see you again. It hurts. It's not fair.

I echo what Kayc has said about doing whats best for yourself and focusing on you, and giving her the time and space you both need. Even if it means you aren't a couple. You cannot sacrifice of yourself to keep someone else warm, you'll be left a smoldering pile of ash, while they are still whole. You can only be there for someone as much as they'll allow you to be, and I think that is the most painful realization of all. No amount of love and sacrifice will keep her in a place she no longer feels she can be.

I have come to the realization that this behavior often echoes that of a toddler at times. They're seemingly always well-behaved around their grandparents, your coworkers, their teachers, in public, etc. But at home, they throw tantrums, won't eat their food, act out and are generally inconsolable, and it leads you to question yourself as a parent regularly. They let their guards down to those they feel most comfortable with, just like in your case with her friends and her kids, she's seemingly normal, but with you, she makes it known she's deeply hurting, confused and isn't really even cognizant of how cold and out of character she's behaving toward you, and you're exhausting yourself trying console, love and offer her comfort, but she refuses it. Just as it's not the parents fault for their toddlers lack of impulse control or emotional outbursts, her behavior toward you is not yours, you did nothing wrong and you don't deserve it. But unlike parents and children, you don't have to further subject yourself to her hurtful, indifferent behavior when you feel it's time to say "enough."

Might be a bit of a poor analogy, but it made sense in my head.

"About loving unconditionally, there is no contradiction between that and walking away. You walk away, not just to avoid hurt, but because it's the right thing to do for him. Walking away is, in its own way, an act of love." - Ron B. From a reply in the thread by Miri, Page 3.

--Rae 

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  I want to thank you all for responding, your responses have giving me a new strength, I appreciate what everyone has said and can see what each one said going on now and came to that realization myself, thank you, and thank you Rae for the links I plan to go to them and read. And yes, I do believe in what Kieron said, or I do see that as a possibility,  of a testing but I don't think it's as intentional or deliberate, she did tell me that her last relationship, her ex left her as Rae's did, not a word, woke up and was gone  due to her grieving over another loss, seems most men left her when she was not living up to their vision of her or wasn't happy enough for them and they didn't want to deal with her depression or unhappy moods and somewhere in the back of her mind she's preparing for my departure as well. Just recently I did something very innocent, taking care of some tasks for me, but could have been viewed as I was packing to leave, I noted an instant change in our relationship and even a further pulling away, which caused me to write the above, after I finished what I was doing and made it visible I wasn't leaving, I noted that it did change for the better. 

  I spent my life living with hope, but have an understanding that hope does not mean it will happen. Each day will bring it's own unique challenges, today was a good day, almost as if nothing was wrong, but I know she's grieving and she did ask me how long she will continue which I said told her it'll never stop it's now part of her life, just some days will be better than others as more time passes it will get better and a new normal will emerge, she said she can't wait, and  told her I'm here for her in what ever she needs, but I do know today was just a one off. I've already came to the conclusion that this is more on auto pilot as mentioned above, without any outside stressors it's good, but I know that's not possible, and she does as well which is another reason if not the  biggest she wants to just leave no one close to her other than myself is giving her time to grieve and mourn.   

  I've accepted that this is going to end and I need time to heal and rediscover myself due to the investment into this relationship, never have I given so much so fast and have been so opened and yes I will need time to heal and find my center and balance again. I know I'm doing what I can and I should walk now for both our sake, damn that word hope, I've started to erect walls around my heart to protect it but not enough to stop myself from loving, just to help prepare. We do need to talk soon, to lay this out for my sake as well as hers, to either stay, to end this and go so I'm not an added stress in her life, or go back to how it was at the beginning with me living apart at my own place to give her a place of refuge to escape to when she needs it. 

  I know this isn't cut and dry, the line isn't static but constantly moving, she wants me in her life, she wants to be alone. If it was only that easy. But thank you all, I'll check in and "Hope" that it ends with good news, but due to my age and having been in relationships, I know it's time to prepare myself for what's coming, but  also to keep that candle lit for hopes sake and to light the darkness..just cause, if we have no hope, we wouldn't have any fight in us, we wouldn't be where we are, and I think of my son and daughter now in their 20's, I pray they never go through this, but I want them to see when there is something worth fighting for, you fight with everything till the bell rings, and thanks to your responses, it has added to my resolve and I feel a breath of fresh air blowing for the first time in awhile, energized, I know it's not my fault, no matter how this ends, when I lay down to go to sleep at night, I have to sleep with what I did that day, when I go to sleep at the end of this it's going to be knowing that I went out fighting and standing by my promises I made to her, and I wasn't someone that will be chalked up on the board of men that ran out on her, I'll make my own column, I'm someone that will stick it out through the bad no matter what it is, so that the good times are sweeter, should this end, which it very well could and looks like it will, and should I find love again which won't be for awhile till I heal, I have to be able to look her in the eyes and say I'm here and I won't run when things get hard, you can trust I'll stand by you through anything, I have to be able to say that, mean that and know I'll stand by that....thank you all.

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For whatever it's worth, I think it speaks well of you that you reached out at all.  Many people don't, and suffer in silence.

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   Well it's been a week with the normal ups and downs, I'm still swinging away even got a few I love you verbally, and a sort of acknowledgement we are still a couple as she addressed herself as my GF (even before hand when we got engaged BF/GF was the typical reference)  but it's almost once she realizes it was said she withdraws again. 

 She still maintains texting me throughout her day when she's out and about traveling, or updating me on anything that may have happened while she was at work, or what happened when I might have been at work. Those are the ups, the downs are when others come in, it's back to I need to get away, I need to be alone. Sometimes the ups and downs happens in as little as 10 minutes. 

  Our portion of the day is good when it is just us, but enter anyone and the fire gets lit, and someone keeps tossing fuel on it. At 1st I thought it might be just me, but I do firmly believe at this point those closest to her "Family" are doing more harm than good just by keeping the flames fanned and still not given her time to mourn, just don't think I'll ever understand why I'm one of the few that are behind her 100% to give her support, but the only one that seems to be pushed away while those that are causing the stress are kept close.

   I have started to give myself time away from the house and found a place to move into should we end, I started old hobbies, every time I think the final breath is taken, there is a gasp. But so far we're still going, I have decided to continue to do what i have been, support her, give her time, but also I have given myself a time frame that once we reach it "IF" we do and it's still the same, that'll be where we will talk and get whatever it is we have out in the open for clarity and direction, just wanted to update and vent some, I am emotionally tired deep inside and starting to disconnect myself emotionally, not willingly, from the relationship to protect myself. I'm preparing for the worst and hoping for the best. 

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I'm sorry to hear that her inconsistent behavior continues, and i think that your detachment is natural and understandable.  A person can only extend and give of themselves so much before emotional fatigue sets in and resentment follows.

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8 hours ago, Lost and confused said:

just don't think I'll ever understand why I'm one of the few that are behind her 100% to give her support, but the only one that seems to be pushed away

This is typical of those whose grief response is this way.  They view the relationship as a stressor, and feel they don't have it within them to give anything, whereas they don't see the others in their lives as requiring something from them.  This may not be rational yet they don't usually understand why they are responding as they are, which makes them feel guilty and torn and can lead up to them pulling away altogether.  None of this seems to make sense to us and feels unfair!  I advise you to do what is best for YOU just as she does what she feels best for HER.  We can only carry a relationship one sided for so long before it seems unhealthy to us and often it's out of our control anyway as they cut us off.  To give you mixed messages and yank you around emotionally is very unfair to you.  I'm sorry, I know how much it hurts and is confusing!

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1 hour ago, kayc said:

They view the relationship as a stressor, and feel they don't have it within them to give anything, whereas they don't see the others in their lives as requiring something from them.

Depending on the bereaved's relationship with the one who died and the strength of that attachment, It's also possible that the pain of grief is something the person may go to great lengths to avoid in the future, by vowing (even if unconsciously) never to get "that close" to anyone else again. ("I'll protect myself from the pain of losing you by distancing myself from you, and rejecting you before you have a chance to reject me.") Not true for everyone, but it can be true for some. Others may feel a sense of disloyalty to the one who died if they continue to focus their love and attention on a living partner instead of on the deceased ~ and they may feel very guilty too. Grief is complicated, and how each person responds to significant loss is as unique as one's fingerprint. We can only guess at the reasons other people behave the way they do, based on what we've seen before in others . . .

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VERY good point, Marty!  I know in Jim's case, he later told me he felt guilty for all the time he'd spent with me in the year prior to his mom's death, but he had no way of knowing she would die, she didn't have a "condition", just failure to thrive in her 80s.  He was always a good son, there whenever she needed him, saw her and talked to her regularly, but as we all know, guilt feelings don't necessarily have to do with ration or facts.  And they're still there to contend with.

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On 8/4/2020 at 2:07 PM, MartyT said:

It's also possible that the pain of grief is something the person may go to great lengths to avoid in the future, by vowing (even if unconsciously) never to get "that close" to anyone else again. ("I'll protect myself from the pain of losing you by distancing myself from you, and rejecting you before you have a chance to reject me.")

 MartyT, right after he passed she said to me she can't bare to lose another one that she loves, I have been thinking about this myself and that being the reason for the pull away. 

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