Finding Marg

[Gwenivere]

OK, woman.  Are you OK after the 2 hurricanes?  I see you’ve been here but not a peep in days.  

[kayc]

I sent her an email, will see if she responds...

[kayc]

She's unaffected by these recent hurricanes but lost a couple more family members to COVID, that has her feeling down, she'll be back when she feels more up to it.  (not her kids or sister)  We need a hurricane check in when we have them!

[Gin]

Thanks for the info. 

[Margm]

I just told Kay by email this quote:  “Everybody has got to die, but I have always believed an exception would be made in my case.” ― William Saroyan  

I think seeing my aunt give up on life had a more profound effect than Billy's passing.  I don't miss her as much, but to a new family starting out, the only grandchild, only niece for many years, my aunt was not just my aunt, she was like a sister.  We grew up together.  You think 84 is a good age to die.  Well, I know and you know we have lost them way before 84 years old, but she was not just an aunt, we were sisters, even though not close since marriage.  The last time I saw her in spring she told me "Margaret, I've always loved you and I always will."  Then Covid came and she started shutting herself off from everyone.  She has lost so much, the natural order of things.  She was very hard to get along with and I think came up against an immovable object that moved next door in her sister's house.  She could not run this person off like she did her daughter's husband.  She was a very hard to get along with person, but to  me it was "just her" and I accepted it and knew she was not really bad.  She was beautiful in c countenance but personality-wise, not so much.  Billy didn't give up.  I was angry at him for giving up but it was all of a sudden, like a heart attack, and he could do nothing, but when someone quits eating, quits living, just because they want to, it is a type of suicide that hits you hard, and I know we have all been hit hard.  

On my little riding trip I tried to find her grave.  There were so many new graves I could not stay and search.  I knew I had to leave.  And, it has thrown me into the depression I used to have, and there is no getting out of it  but to quit digging the hole.  My son has my temperament and he tried going back to the city we left.  He had money to stay in the nicest place this time, but because of the Covid, places were shut down and the next morning he was knocking on my door.  I understood.  Sometimes you really "can't go home again."  "Home" has many meanings after we lose what amounts to our reason for living.  Now I am afraid I might not live long enough to help my granddaughter and this Covid is not helping.  The 17th, Billy will be gone five years.  In my "memories" on FB was a picture of him visited by his nephews two days before he passed away.  Billy never was "bedridden" and though it got to the wheelchair stage very fast, even that didn't last long.  In the picture his eyes are very sick looking and red and it just tore me up to see him like that again.  And still, five years later, when I go to open one of the storage boxes my granddaughter hates, I open it up and there he is and I just silently close it and walk away.  I don't think I can do it.  

I know my aunt had all of her affairs in order.  My kids know where to find my "affairs" but I want to pick out the stone, I want to put a stone for his brother and sister.  Her little concrete block with her name on it has silt covering it and no relatives nearby.  Billy's mom would not have any of the other family buried in that cemetery.  I want to buy a stone that just sits enough above ground that it will never be covered by silt.  I didn't know her, "Jessie Nell" but Billy's brother was 11 years old when she passed away on her first day of school to one of the deadly childhood diseases in 1939.  I want a stone with sister on one side and brother on the other side (to put Billy's brother's ashes  along beside her.  I know she and he are not there, but I want to be.  It is something I've not completed yet, or our stone either.  I still have reason to live.  I'm not real happy doing anything, but I have things I hope I live long enough to complete.  We  are not promised another day, and I know my aunt had everything taken care of before she essentially gave up on life.  

I am very depressed, and chronic depression is the only diagnosis they could make after 15 years of therapy, so I accept that.  This COVID is holding us back so much.  When I went for my six month visit, the little town was really just shut down.  This COVID still astounds me, but I wear my mask every time I go out, change clothes and shower when I come in.  Both my kids have had it.  Both just slept it off, Kelli has bronchitis now, but she has it once or twice a year and we have to watch her platelets .  She is a nurse and I do trust her to take care of herself.  I do feel guilt for her inheriting the blood disorder from me, but she fights it and it has never bothered me.  I just carry the gene.  

I have no more reason to be depressed than anyone else.  I can handle the pain and "disability" that goes along with it and knowing there is nothing they can do, I live with it.  It is what it is.  I'll quit digging the hole.

[Gwenivere]

Home having different meanings when we lose our reason for living.  So, so true Marg.  I struggle with that every day.  I think about papers and fortunately the most important are in a place someone knows about.  There’s a file cabinet in the garage that I’ll never tackle because what’s in there is for a reason, stuff Steve saved as they were needed at one time.  I’m sure the executor will see they mean nothing now.  I’m not gonna tackle it.  I can see having unsorted boxes would be a problem.  AND how the thought of going thru them overwhelming.  The only thing I have a slight interest is halving my clothes so they can be used.  I have so much I’ll never wear now that I’m older and don’t have Steve around to dress up for.  I’ve been wearing my favorites for comfort for years now as it is.  With half gone I’ll still be covered for regular days and hot dates.  I’m rolling my eyes on that thought.  

Sure cant go home again which is why I have not visited NM.  No one there I want or can see.  Parents gone, 2 former best friends have let the distance expand the bond to casual now.  I tried to keep us tight, but they both started drifting away.  Can’t force them.  It’s just sad.

Now if I could figure a way to live with my back pain it would make such a difference.  I called today about how I can handle things I need to do.  Next thing I knew I was getting the (actually logical) reasons I should......except one.  The recovery and no motivation to live in this new 'home'.  No Steve.  Came round circle on this one.  Only selling point is living this loneliness without so much moaning.  Yeah, that would be cool, but to get there, or IF (nothing is guaranteed), it could be a long recovery for nothing.   Big depression trigger.

[kayc]

15 hours ago, Marg M said:

when someone quits eating, quits living, just because they want to, it is a type of suicide that hits you hard

Yes, I've heard it called passive suicide.  A lady in our church did that, she was one of the first people I got to know when I moved here 43 years ago.  She was 95 and quit eating.  She died two weeks later.  I don't know why she gave up, she had friends and her son & wonderful DIL lived in a cottage on her property so were there for her always.  They might call it "failure to thrive" but it's a step further than that.  I'm so sorry, Marg.  I think one of the hardest parts is going through the whatifs as well as missing the person.

 

10 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

Only selling point is living this loneliness without so much moaning.  Yeah, that would be cool, but to get there, or IF (nothing is guaranteed), it could be a long recovery for nothing.

I so relate!  My evaluation is Friday and I'm terrified!  I've been waiting for this for seven months and I'm scared?  Yes, scared of what they'll say, the prognosis, and how the hell I'm supposed to survive winter without the use of my hand/s.  The thought of going through with it and hopefully surviving this winter alone scares me, I've never felt more vulnerable.  I quote Bible verses at myself constantly, trying to combat the fear.  I envy those who have someone in the flesh!  But neither can I bear going on with this relentless pain day and night.  I'm amazed they have not even given me a cortisone shot in the hands!  And doctors do not dole out pain medications nowadays, at least none around here do.

[Gwenivere]

We’re kinda on the same page.  I more meant a long road of recovery to living an empty life.  It’s a long, long life upheaval to wind up back in this solitude.  That’s my stumbling block.  I don’t have my social connections that were more than so rare now.  I miss having 2 days a week I knew I was needed as much as I needed them. 

If there isn’t significant pain reduction, I’d still have an altered back and not have the same agility like being able to pick something off the floor.  They definitely pointed that out.  

I know the constant pain is mentally affecting me.  I do have some pain meds.  They make me feel loopy and sweaty.  My doc ordered a patch I’m scared of.  I’m here alone which adds to the fear.  Like you said, I wish I had someone in the flesh trying this stuff.  You need help so badly.  You haven’t been seen at all before, right?   I’d really push them in the evaluation on at least starting pain management immediately.  This from a person that barely takes them.   But you might handle injections or meds better than I do.  I used to get cortisone in my thumbs and it helped.  But larger areas had me crawling the walls in anxiety.  I sure hope you get some relief and hopeful news in your evaluation.  

I DO understand the anticipatory anxiety waiting for Friday.  I’d be a mess too.   If they do OK surgery, we’d be in the same boat to in regards to getting things done thru recovery.  And I always have care for my doff in mind.  Everyone forgets we are alone.  

[kayc]

18 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

You haven’t been seen at all before, right?

I saw my doctor (no help, she gave me a cortisone shot in the butt which did nothing), I had a nerve conduction study done and it said I had severed nerves, need surgery severely, both hands (that surprised me), I know my right hand needs it severely as of seven months ago!  It's definitely worsened, which I hadn't thought possible.  I don't know how I've survived thus far, it's unbearable.

Just called for an appt for my A1C as I have my eval later in the day and wanted to get my test over with but they neglected to put it in their records that they told me to come back in three months (i'ts been four).  I won't be so inclined to rush back in again when they finally come to as I hate making a special trip, I have enough trips to town lately to last me a lifetime between my BIL's dying and medical appts., ugh!  They don't understand what it's like to drive this distance both for time and expense.  Not like I'm across town!

18 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

Everyone forgets we are alone.

They wouldn't get it because they HAVE their spouses!

[MartyT]

I'm sorry, Kay, but I really don't understand how "a cortisone shot in the butt" has anything to do with the pain in your hands. Why wouldn't you get an injection at the site of your pain? Is this doctor a specialist in orthopedic hand surgery? It seems to me that re-connecting severed nerves in your hands (if indeed that is the problem) requires a skilled and experienced surgeon. Before you proceed with any surgery, might you consider getting a second opinion?

[Gin]

Kay,  I have a lot of hand/thumb pain and saw an ortho guy.  He gave me a cortisone shot in my hand and it did not help much.  He told me to try Glucossmine and Chondroitin with MSM.  I have been taking it for a few months.  It has helped to some extent.  Pain still there, but not debilitating.  Might be worth a try.    Gin

[Gwenivere]

Marty makes a good point.  Steroid injections are at the site for specific pain control.  Seems a shot in the butt would be for general inflammation and just faster than pills.  I’ve had them in my thumbs and one hip.  They helped, but not for very long.  I can only imagine you are tired of making the drive.  I feel the same about appointment times, most places not very flexible.  I get tired just driving around my 'hood.

[kayc]

19 hours ago, MartyT said:

Is this doctor a specialist in orthopedic hand surgery?

No, she's my PCP and I imagine doesn't know where in the hand to inject it, I haven't been able to get into the orthopedic doctors "due to COVID).  Seven long months of pain I've waited!  Today is my eval.

15 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

Steroid injections are at the site for specific pain control

I know this.  Tell my doctor.

 

19 hours ago, MartyT said:

Before you proceed with any surgery, might you consider getting a second opinion?

The nerve conduction center already determined the site and causation, the orthopedic eval will confirm it and proceed from there.  Braces don't help, there is no pill I can take that helps.  The nerve pain needs blocked or fixed!  

Glucosamine does nothing for me, been that route before.

Today I have to fast and drive 50 miles away to get a blood draw for my A1C, then drive to another town (20 more miles?) to have my new glass lens cut and fit into my glasses, then drive (15 more miles?) to the orthopedic doctor for eval.  Will take all day, and the worst is missing my morning coffee!  

Have a return to make and need to stop at the store and probably will do neither as Kodie will be at home in his pen, waiting for me.

I survived yesterday, on the phone with insurance companies and CVS Caremark, neither one on my favorites list.  HOURS of this!  It's enough to drive someone batty.  Maybe I'm there already, IDK.

 

[Gwenivere]

You are way too overloaded.  I did the marathon phone thing last week and partially into this week with insurance and my bank.  Think I racked up about 12+ hours. 

I could never do so many med tasks in a day.  One is my limit.  I get it you have to for the drive.  And to have to fast too?  Poor Kodie missing his mom. I bet you’re totally wiped out when you get home.  I hope you at least have something you can pamper you a Kodie with after such a marathon day.  

[kayc]

Thank you, I was totally wiped out.  And awake during the night.

Kodie is my lifesaver, my bright spot, as is my church.  If not for that...

I posted the outcome in my thread you started as I hate to infringe on someone else's for so much personal about ME. 

 

[Gwenivere]

There are thread boundaries?  Surely you josh, my dear Kay.  😎

i often forget which one I’m in when words spill out.  Continuity is great if your brain is working well.  🤪

[kayc]

I know, me too, I respond to what's written, but I've been hassled about it on occasion too.  

[Gwenivere]

Really?  That’s rather rude.  I consider this a wide open playing field.   We react to what is presented where it is.  if posts could be moved around to where someone thought they should be, it would be utter chaos and we have enough of that just getting thru each day!  I did ask one person a long time ago about being in this forum as their loss wasn’t a partner love loss.  

Well, you just keep speaking up where ya feel it.  

[kayc]

I guess the thing I keep in mind is whoever your person is you love the most, miss the most, that qualifies you to understand to some degree, other losses.  It's understood they're all unique, even the ones who are all spousal grief.  Some it's a parent, some a child, a friend, a lover, or spouse, but we can't disqualify someone else's grief with labeling.   And I've heard moderators say that no one "owns" a thread, so I guess we can post where we want, but I do wonder when it's totally unrelated.  Today I removed a post from our diabetic group as it was religious and had NOTHING to do with diabetes!  It's more topic specific than here as EVERYTHING relates to our losing our spouse!  Everything, every little part of every day!  Their death affects every part of our lives, on every level.

[Gwenivere]

6 hours ago, kayc said:

It's more topic specific than here as EVERYTHING relates to our losing our spouse!  Everything, every little part of every day!  Their death affects every part of our lives, on every level.

That was my point.  I understand not comparing griefs, but someone who lost a parent can’t offer true understanding to someone who lost a spouse or child.  That’s why I like there are specific forums to cover each kind of loss.  Of course there is the freedom to post whatever you want,  but it’s more helpful and received with people that have experienced the same.  Marty has even moved threads to more appropriate places for help.  I know I could post in any other forum about my loss and I bet people would try and help, but it isn’t fair for me to pull them away from their healing.  I think we’re on the same page.

[kayc]

I have seen people who have had completely different types of losses post in the spousal section and understand that there may be some similarities but there it ends, there are MANY things that loss of spouse affects and is unique to that...for instance loss of that person that looked at you appreciatively with that twinkle in their eye.  That person that held you in the night.  That person that you talked everything over with and made decisions with.  That person that shared all of your holidays and vacations, evenings, weekends, with.  That person that did the other half of the chores.  And as I've discovered, that person who would take care of you when you needed it.  We were one.  No other relationship can fully boast that.  I think loss of a  child is a unique loss as well, so is loss of a pet.  Speaking only for myself, loss of a parent is also unique, that historian that you could go to and ask questions of about your family history, that person who has the same eyes and nose as you, that person that shaped and molded you in your early existence, that you could count on to understand (except mine is muddied with abuse and alcoholism so not quite so Beaver Cleaver as everyone else's).  But at any rate we expect our parents to go before us, we do not necessarily expect our spouse to (at least I thought it'd be years away yet) and certainly do not expect to outlive our children!  Our pets...we always hope against hope that the inevitable will not happen.  

How indeed can someone who has not experienced such loss begin to understand all that we are facing?  They can't.  They can try to understand but it's like trying to experience color when you can only see black and white.

[Gwenivere]

On 10/20/2020 at 7:36 AM, kayc said:

How indeed can someone who has not experienced such loss begin to understand all that we are facing?  They can't.  They can try to understand but it's like trying to experience color when you can only see black and white.

Those are the most powerful words.  Sums it up perfectly.  Your other examples were spot on too about expected and unexpected losses.  I got hit again today with Medicare options that now are making me question my supplemental policy.  I know this broker is trying to help me, but I would have the advantage of Steve’s having been thru this to lean on on.  It’s another example of how intertwined we get on everything.  Now I have doubts and they will haunt me til I go thru info again, the last thing I need after endless hours setting up what I have now.  I really wonder some days is this the one my mind breaks.  It’s not that we are incompetent in any way.  We’re burned out thrown into this emptiness we never expected.  

Color is.a great analogy of loss and the lack of what grief is.  

[kayc]

I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer about Medicare, it's like a crap shoot, go by our statistical chances of needing this vs that.  My chances of hospitalization are lower whereas I need Rx coverage.  Mine raised copays for specialists and hospitalization.  I don't like that they cut out Peacehealth this year, that's half the doctors/hospitals.  But I'm making do.  Didn't like the hospital anyway, have to walk miles and it's insanely huge and makes no sense.

 

[KarenK]

When I chose my supplement plan 7 years ago, I was a lot healthier, but I chose on the "what if" basis. The premiums were higher, but I have no co pays or deductibles. Everything is paid 100%. I was able to choose this because of my company reimbursement of premiums. Because I take few everyday meds, I chose a cheap RX plan. Co pays are $1-$4. If I'm prescribed any higher tier drugs, I do without. If one becomes an absolute necessity to live, I'll probably just go ahead and die. The problem with all insurance crap now is the rising premiums. The total of my medical, dental, and RX premiums has risen $500+ over 7 years and it seems the sky's the limit. Unfortunately, my reimbursement allowance remains what it was 7 years ago.

[Gwenivere]

I guess in this instance, this is where capitalism and I part ways.  This isn’t like choosing a car, peanut butter or movie.  This is our depending on knowledge and equality for care and meds.  I don’t know how a lay person now could make a really informed decision with all the possibilities.  I thought I did til a different scenario emerged I questioned and found different answers from different providers.  Medicare itself doesn’t change.  The fact I need a broker and have to call SS about a drug assistance program says we have to tread into areas we aren’t experts and try to become one.  We won’t, but we try raising our frustration and anxiety.  Having to make trade doesn’t feel right.  Sorry, I just sick of the red tape in this area.  Ever since I lost coverage thru Steve’s work which was always better and already researched.  I have enough on my plate being the patient now.