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i first visited this site several months after my father died in feb 05. he died of a massive heart attack just a few short days before his 57 birthday. he was an over the road truck driver and he was not at home when he died. i have recently found out that his truck was running for 2 days before anyone found him. in my head i know that there was nothing anyone could have done to save him, but in my heart i feel like i abandonded him. my gosh he was dead for 2 maybe 3 days before anyone knew. i was extemely close to my dad and losing hime almost destroyed my marriage and my life. i thought that i had a handle on my emotions but for some reason out of the blue i feel like i just got the news that he died. i went through some very difficult times in the past year and i know (hope) that i will get through this as well. i was just wondering if anyone else has gone through this "phenomenon"? any help would be greatly appreciated. thank you

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derek, thank you for your prayers. my sympathy goes out to your during your time of grief. i know how mind numbing grief can be. i hope you find support and strength on this site. sarah (hopsing was one of my dads nicknames - that is a whole other story :)

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Hi to you both,

I am sorry for your loses and hope you both with God's love get through this tough time. I am missing my mom who I lost April 2005 and I am also missing my dad who I lost in August 2005. Their deaths were both a surprise and not expected. My mom died while we were on holidays in the United States and Dad died of Cancer but he told no one he had. In the past few weeks I have relive both of their deaths and dreamed about them. The dreams were so real that I woke up crying. Please remember that God loves you and I will keep you in my prayers take care and God bless Shelley

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Hopsing,

My dad died a year and a half ago, and yet there are times, out of the blue as you said, that it seems like it just happened. We constantly refer to grief as a roller coaster ride and I think that's why we are doing ok one moment and then plunging back down into the depths again. It is very tiring and frustrating and hard to deal with, but I think eventually the lows will get farther and farther apart. I just try to ride it out and believe things will go "up" again.

Hang in there and just feel whatever you feel at the moment.

Hugs,

Shell

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Hello All,

Hopsing, I just wanted to add that I think I've had the experience you are describing on many occasions and have found that re-experiencing the same sensations, thoughts, emotions and disbelief of that first moment, terribly painful and sad each time. It has been 12 years since my dad died and 10 years since mum died. I also know that I have those moments because of the love I have for my parents and the love they had for me... and the re-occurring feelings wouldn't be as strong and fresh if i didn't miss them and love them more than I could ever describe. Personally I don't believe your experience is a relapse as such (even though you must feel awful and scared to be feeling the same way as you did a year and a half ago), but that it is more likely a natural progression of your grief. You probably won't have to re-do all the coming to terms with your loss that you may have done in the last year and a half. Your pain and loss may just need to come to the forefront for a while. Unfortunately our losses aren't going away so either is our grieving. It's all part of how we keep surviving and healing.

wishing you love and hugs

x hopeful

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Hi Hopsing,

Today, my husband made me go to the cemetery with him, to see my dad's plaque in the ground. Dad's name in the ground was something I never wanted to see. He passed away Jan 3rd. Forgive my long post, I am just venting, since I never talk to anyone. But you are not alone. I think that no matter how much time you have, the selfish (replace selfish with "loving")part of you still wants more. No matter what you did/said, or how close you were, you still feel guilty for something. From personal experience, I had lots of time to prepare & cover all the bases, & spend time with my dad, but I still feel guilty, shocked, scared, depressed, etc.

I fought so well, & thought I was doing well, with the strength my dad gave me. You see, he was sick for 8 yrs (& I grieved each thing he could no longer do). While he was sick, he was very adamant that my mother, brother, & I would be strong & not bawl over him. He said he knew we would be sad, but did not want us to sit around feeling sorry, because he had a happy life. He had pulmonary fibrosis, I believe, as a result of being a steelworker. He was only supposed to live 3 yrs. He survived a heart attack, quadrupal bipass, an unhealed incision that was re-opened twice, in addition to diabetes and various infections. With his fighting will, he walked & talked until his last day, although he should have been bed-ridden. Just 2 yrs ago, he put siding on my folk's house while carrying his oxygen, & helped my husband put 2 tiles in our bathroom floor, huffing & puffing the whole time. I lost my dad this Jan, & a few months later, lost my job. I knew I was on the verge of being fired, but carried my dad's fight with me & continued to work hard & do my best, since his fight was over. I thought if he could fight, so could I. I now blame myself for the emotions and exhaustion that may have "helped" me lose my job. I was "new" & thus had no rights, even if my boss expected me to do the impossible. I regret not being a better daughter or teacher, when I attempted to teach my dad to play the violin(something he always wanted to do), & he lost his strength to play. Maybe I wasn't good enough. Maybe I should have taught him a "faster" or better way. Maybe I don't have enough talent to be the star that my dad wanted me to be (I'm a musician). Now I have to figure out how to live my life without my dad, and again, what to do for a "career." I regret not having his grandchildren, though while Dad was sick, I thought it best not to add to the family stressors. I have been the strong one for my mom, always telling her how my dad wanted her to be tough, & see the world, and have fun. Little does she know, that I have had nightmares for the past month, & cry by myself daily. I don't talk to my friends or husband much, because I don't want to be a "downer" with my problems. So, I have plugged along for 7 months. The fear hit me all of a sudden...I am scared to death to live the rest of my life without my dad. I can't believe he is gone. I am afraid that I have already forgotten so much by blocking the pain. I feel like nothing that I ever do will really mean anything, & that I will never be happy again. I am afraid I will be a failure as a wife, mother, musician, or whatever else I decide to do...and God forbid if I do succeed at anything, my dad will not be here to see it. I thought I was healing, but all of a sudden, WHAM! I feel like it just happened. I had 8 wonderful yrs to bond with my dad, both of us forgiving & forgetting every wrong (he used to be very difficult). My dad became a different, wonderful person. I grew to love his annoying quirks. My Dad had a 7th grade education, & couldn't spell, yet kept 2 diaries of last wishes & words of love for everyone in my family, including my husband :). He told me around Christmas that he didn't have long, yet he never gave up hope, that some f****** doctor would come through (he was turned down for a lung transplant, since they felt his "older" life wasn't worth saving with 2 lungs!) I was getting used to him being sick, & almost began to think that he would never die. All of these blessings & extra time, yet I feel like it wasn't enough. I have nightmares every night, that my dad came back from the dead, & is in excruciating pain, as I "get to talk to him again for that brief moment," so I have to tell him it is ok to let go. I thought after the first dream, I would have let go, & the dreams would stop, but it's getting worse.

In summation, I have probably had one of the best situations as far as having a chance to say "I love you's," & what-not, but it doesn't make things any easier. I have learned that these feelings are normal. Unfortunately, I have always had self-esteem/depression issues. I just wish someone could tell me that I am not the failure I feel I am, & that I will be happy again, & it will get easier.

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Dear Cari,

Your Father sounds like an amazing, generous, funny and strong willed man and you sound like a wonderful, caring daughter. I think that just from reading the way you have written about him. I'm sure you were the best daughter ever for your father and that he was very proud of you as a musician and teacher also. I think you're right in thinking that all your experiences are normal. Keep venting here and in any other safe place you can. Make sure you have moments where you don't have to be the strong one who keeps it all together. Keep coming here and tell your family that you need those moments too. I believe acknowledging your grief and it's importance in your life is a good way to start healing and adjusting to your new life without your Dad.

I too had a very strong willed Father. When my Dad got cancer for the second time they gave him 3 months to live. He lived for more than 2 years instead. Most of that time without any medication or treatment. He started meditating daily, changed his diet, retired, travelled around the outback with friends where he drank red wine and slept under the stars. He played a round of golf on his best ever handicap the week before he died. I was in my early teens at the time and we only talked a couple of times about when he wouldn't be here anymore. Most of the time we were like a normal teenage daughter and father and got frustrated and cranky with each other. I really didn't think he would die. The length of time you have with someone knowing that they are sick doesn't make it easier when they're gone. It's just a different kind of grieving with it's own issues. Personally I can't imagine what it would be like or how hard it would be to lose my parents suddenly. It just shows how even though we are all grieving losing a parent or grandparent how individual every ones experience and grief is, and yet how similar the loss can be. Thankfully we can all empathise and support each other here.

Thinking of you

x hopeful

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I'm so sorry for everyone's losses and know how hard the grief process is. I had my own relapse the past few days even though I've only gone four months since losing my Dad. My brother, sister-in-law and adorable 15-month old nephew flew in to celebrate my brother and Mom's birthdays...it was the first group "celebration" since Dad's death. Although I made it through my brother's birthday yesterday I had a very difficult time going to the house and just couldn't handle it again today. I went and tried to be happy for my Mom's sake but after seeing all Dad's stuff gone from the garage yesterday and his picture on the fireplace mantle I barely made it home without breaking down. So going back this afternoon was very painful and after about an hour I just couldn't stay despite it being Mom's birthday. The emotions that hit yesterday were only compounded, and even though everyone was having fun playing with my nephew all I could think about was the empty garage, the fact that this was the first year Dad wasn't here (and couldn't see my nephew toddle around), etc. One of my grief books said that everyone reacts to things differently but I felt horrible that I couldn't put on the face again and pretend that I wasn't sitting in a living room that Dad was in a mere four months ago. I think my family judged me because I left, and it's hard because while they might have been enjoying themselves I was on the verge of tears and found to be too much for me. My Mom said that being in the house would get easier and that I "had to get used to it" - I almost lost it when I heard that. I wanted to say that she's had four months to accustom herself to the memories and that I've only been to the house a few times (i.e. everything I see is still fresh), but I know we all react differently to situations. Relapses are expected and inevitable even if we don't know when they'll hit all the time. And what will cause a relapse for one person may not do the same for another (which is what I wish my family could have understood). OK, I'll stop rambling, I just wanted to write that I feel for everyone and do know how tough it can be.

Kathy

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I need to weigh in on this inasmuch as I need to start doing something about my Dad's death.

fem27syd said:"Personally I don't believe your experience is a relapse as such (even though you must feel awful and scared to be feeling the same way as you did a year and a half ago), but that it is more likely a natural progression of your grief."

I think that is true, or that its like a delayed reaction. I am experiencing that, albiet to a smaller degree than hopsing.

I showed up on these boards because my Mom died last November. My father died in Sept 1995. I didn't grieve much at the time. About a year before he died I started drinking rather heavily to deal with my troubles, and just used his death as a further excuse to drink. (I don't drink anymore, sober over 4 years)

My Dad and I didn't get along much. He was overbearing and just stern. (My perspective on him at the time. I'm becoming a lot like him, but I'm not overbearing and stern, just secure and confident in my convictions, and serious :mellow: ) So my thoughts about it at the time, if I was sober probably would've been more like "Too bad the old guy's dead, it'll be hard on Mom." And then proceed on with life.

Now I am seeing his death thru the lens of nearly 11 years of time. Griefwork has triggered some reflections on his death and I think I need to deal with it despite the 11 years of passage if my griefwork over my Mom is ever to be completed. I know it said in griefwork that death of one person renews old losses, and maybe this is why? My parents were married 58 years, so how could grieving over her be done without addressing Dad's death?

Anyway, I've thought a lot about Dad's passing, and my relationship with him. As I said, I wasn't close to mine like hopsing and some of the other poster's were to theirs. I'd ocassionally skip sending him a birthday card or Father's Day card to show him (!). Or I'd call, he'd answer and I'd just say "Put Mom on." Our last conversation was an argument. (He was expressing disapproval over my life.)

I think my 'relapse' over Dad's death, consisting of going over to the cemetary and paying some attention to his name on the granite, and not just Mom's, to talking to him there, and not just Mom. To wondering what he'd think about what's going on, to wishing he was around sometimes :o To missing him. And also experiencing some peculiar judgement calls in my decision-making process. :wacko:

In my opinion, I think that this 'relapse', or 'delayed reaction' or 'natural progression of one's grief' is just a way of getting a grip, or coming to terms with a dreadful event.

Someone's died. We go thru terrible pain. We grieve. Time passes. We grieve again, as if we're wayback when the loss happened. It may be just a retracing of our steps because our subconscious needs to revisit some things back then and tidy things up? We move along a few steps forward, but need to step back a bit once in a while cuz we forgot to attend to something? And so we 'relapse' like hopsing did and KathyD very recently did?

It may be just a healing.

This make any sense?

Paul

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Hi Paul,

just wanted to say ...it's never too late to do grief work. My life just kept going after my parents deaths ....I finished high school, got my first job, studied at Uni, fell in love ... but never really accepted that my folks weren't coming back. It wasn't until last year that I took myself off to get some counseling after being parentless for nearly a decade! I found counseling plus finding this site and doing my own grief work has started to help me even after so many years. It's hard work but I'm glad to hear you are grieving for your dad even 11 years later. I reckon it's never too late to start healing.

x hopeful

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Paul,

Yes, it makes sense. And I think age plays some part in it, maybe. When I lost people in my twenties or thirties, I didn't know how to grieve really. I know I didn't do it in any healing fashion, that's for sure. Now that I'm older, it's a whole different experience. After my dad died, I thought about EVERYONE who had died in my life and grieved again for all of them, only this time I think I did it "right". I think that may be what you are doing, in a way.

Hugs,

Shell

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hi

i come to this board at least twice a day to read sometimes i don't post but i always read and sometimes reread. i try to wake up and think about only getting through today and not worry about tomorrow. i try but sometimes it doesn't work. yesterday was 4 weeks that my mom is gone. i try to say that today will be a little better then yesterday and i try not to put myself in that guilt mode. when that starts i just constantly think about it. i am trying to forgive myself for any wrongs i have done, and try to tell myself that my mom forgives me and loves me. i also say everyday Jesus replace my heart with joy and remove the sorrow. i am trying but it is so hard, sometimes it feels like to much work. I have to remenber all the good things that i did but someone told me that we always tend to remenber only the bad. it doesn't help that my family is not in my life, i know that my mom would want us to talk but for now that will never be. i really don't see that ever happening to much has happened. i feel alone even though i have my husband and children. its scary. i pray that today will be a tiny bit better.

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I agree it's never too late. I have been divorced for more than 20 years, and that's a loss, too. I had no clue how to grieve that, and ended up just being very angry and suppressing memories. In my family, suppressing emotion is the watchword! When my ex-husband became ill, we reconnected and became close friends, and talked over the issues we had had, which was very healing. When he died, I not only found myself grieving his death, but also our divorce from 23 years ago. Even through the dark depression of grief over his death, the release of many issues around our divorce have made a big difference, and although the double grieving has complicated my grief process, I firmly believe it is a very good thing that I am finally grappling with having lost him twice, painful though it is.

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Dear Ones,

Your discussion reminds me of a wise and wonderful piece that appeared in Bereavement Magazine some time ago, and that I have posted on the Comfort for Grieving Hearts page of my Grief Healing Web site:

It may be quite possible

that we are not necessarily undergoing 'unresolved loss'

when a past death comes up for us.

Instead, this could be our opportunity

to experience the older loss in a different light,

one with some perspective

and yes, even wisdom.

Even if the feelings that come up are quite painful,

this may not mean that you didn't

do 'grief work' right the first time!

It may just be that now is the time

for you to experience that loss

and your current one

at a deeper level,

given who you are today

and what you now know about yourself.

Many of us still have parts of our losses

that may remain on some level 'unresolved.'

However, a more empowering notion is to recognize

that triggers of prior losses

may mean that we can re-grieve, healthily and holistically.

We may still be asking sometimes unanswerable questions about older losses,

but perhaps how we ask them has changed significantly.

And perhaps we have a greater comfort level

for these questions being unanswered.

And perhaps, we have a greater tolerance for ourselves

in not having all the answers.

-- Joan Hummel, Bereavement Magazine , March/April 2004

Reprinted with permission from Bereavement Publishing, Inc. (888-604-4673)

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Cari,

Wow! I thought I was the only one who has not allowed the grief. I lost my daddy in 12/05 and never talk to anyone. I am the baby and yet the only one of 4 who dosen't express my pain and guilt. I didn't have as long, and most of the time I did have was spent abusing drugs. Thankfully, I was able to wise up just in time for the worst of it, the last month before his death. I also was blessed to be the main caregiver while we were home. We all talk and laugh fondly about memories, yet when it turns serious I shut down. I have so much guilt about everything. I should have layed in his bed, I should have talked more about the good times I should have APOLOGIZED more!!! I also have a difficult time accepting my future husband and children will never know my dad....which has always been one of my greatest fears. I am very sensitive but when I talk to friend I feel the same like a downer or even worse like I'm milking my loss. I am So Lost.

Roxanne

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Hi All,

First of all I want to say how sorry I am for all your losses, The next thing is I have also had a death that I have not dealt with. It happened about twenty years ago it was my grandmother who I was very close to. She died on Christmas Day, The whole family except for me went to see her on Christmas Eve I did not go because I thought she was coming home. I have not been able to move on after her death because I can not forgive myself for not going and seeing her the day before Christmas. Please help if you have any suggestions that might get me through this. shelley

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Gosh, this all makes me a bit scared. Saturday will be 5 months since Josh died, and I have been determined to grieve how ever the best way it is to grieve. I'm scared that if I don't deal with it now, I will have "issues" "baggage" down the road in future relationships. But from that article that Marty posted, it sounds like even if you have done your grief work "right" at the time, it may still come up again in the future. It mentioned that feelings may come up that are quite painful and you may have to re-grieve. I just have to say if I have to go through what I've experienced over the last five months AGAIN, I think I'd lose it!!! The thought of this, especially since I feel so young and feel like I have a tons of years of life ahead of me, is SO overwhelming. I'm going to have to deal with Josh's death and painful emotions for the REST OF MY LIFE?????? ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! :excl::excl::excl: I didn't ask for this and I don't want it!

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kellymarie,

I think what MartyT is trying to say is that, yes you might have to deal with it again sometime, but it will be less intense than it is now. When my grandmother who lived with us all of my life when I was 16 I did a lot of grieving then and the feeling I had slowly dimished. Every year around Christmas time, I would feel depressed, she died on November 10th. As the years went on I slowly would be less and less depressed around that time. Now that my wife has died, that brought up a lot of feelings from when my grandmother died. I regrieved for her, but it wasn't as intense as when she first died. You and I are in the infantcy part of the grieving process, it is so painful and raw right now. As time goes on I know that it will get easier and easier. We will never totaly get over the death of a loved one, but we do get better to where we can live a happy life once again. The fact that you are hurting so much right now just proves how much you loved him. And believe me, none of us signed up for this, however we have each found each other through the deaths of our loved ones, everyone here is like a family and we will take care of each other through our ups and downs.

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Thanks, Derek. I'm just feeling so tired and overwhelmed, and then thinking that I may have to re-grieve in the future.... :blink: I must say I'm impressed with how positive your outlook is on our future; that we can live a happy life again. I can remember when you joined this site, just a few days after me, and I can really tell how much progress you have made. It's reassuring. Kelly

Sorry to everyone else if I've gone off on a tanget of the original intent of this conversation... :unsure:

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Hi Kellymarie,

No problem about getting off target we all do get off our targets and please realize that we are here to listen and to pray for you so you never need to be sorry for showing you care about your lost love or any other loss you want to say something about take care and I will continue to pray for you Shelley

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kellymarie, relax!

You said that you are determined to grieve however the best way is. There is no best way. There is your way. We all, however, share a lot of experiences in grieving. You've probably learned already about these commonalities in grief.

One of the common things is the emotional rollercoaster ride we all get on.

A part of this is the weird psychology that we humans have. Memory is rather malleable, along with the feelings connected with those memories.

Our emotional makeup is so out-of-whack the first several months or so some things may just not get addressed. We just cannot account for everything. Maybe this is good, cause if we handled everything the first few months our grief would be tougher. Somethings we just can't handle right away. I think this is the "denial" spoken of. Not being in denial that the death ever happened of course, but not realizing the full emotional extent of it right away. And so our brain parses it out over time.

However, the thing is later on when we have 'grieving moments' we will have the experience of the first few months or years to handle it. We fought battles before, and we've won them, and now we take those experiences and apply them to the feelings and memories that float up from our mind now and then.

So don't be scared. It's not like you're going to have to re-live the past 5 months of grief all over. And since grief is a measure of how much we loved a particular person (or a measure of our capacity to love, period), and since you loved Josh a great deal, yes, you'll probably have to grieve over him the rest or your life. But that doesn't mean that you'll be feeling the way you do now for the rest of your life. It just means that eventually Josh's death will be incorporated into your life, made a part of you. Not something like a job you've had or another city you've lived in and its pigeon-holed into your past. "That was where I was and what I was doing then, but no more." Josh and his death will be different. You will remember him and the love you two shared, and there'll be more smiles over his life with you than tears over his death which took him from you.

So yes, feelings may come up again that are painful, and you have to re-grieve. But the successful griefwork that you've done so far will help you cope with it in a much better way. That is how the grief is incorporated into a life. Every bit of pain is something about the loss that wants to be figured out. Each piece figured out adds to the new you that is being built out of this. They say that we become a different person with all the griefwork that we do. This is the incorporation of the loss into our lives. It can only happen by accepting the pain and dealing with it. No one asks for it or wants it, but we have little choice if we want to come out of this healthy.

Hope this helps.

Paul

Edited by Paul S
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hhhmmmmm.... I wish I knew how to relax. :huh: I do see what you mean about the first few months, not addressing everything that needs to be addressed. I was in shock for the first 3 months. It was very clear when I came out of shock. So now I have much to address. I guess this will take some time...

I guess I was just naive about this whole experience of love, loss, death, and grief. I figured that I'll just do my "work" now and I'll be "all better" in the future. That I'll eventually only smile when I think about Josh instead of only cry. (I'm so used of life this way, as with my career; do all the work now so that in the future I'll be "set.") I figured that I wouldn't have "grieving moments" if I did all my grieving now. I know I am a new person now, slowing re-building me, incorporating this experience and the new outlook it has cast on my entire life. But this topic and your explaination has made me realize that love, loss, death, and grief is not so simple as the analogy to my career. I guess I know this deep down but didn't really realize it. I guess it's better to figure this out now than in a year when I have a "grieving moment" when I thought I was "all better." I guess it's better to remove unrealistic expectations now so I'm not doomed for failure. What also made me think about this is a story a friend relayed last night. He told me that his mom had lost a boyfriend at the age of 16 in a car accident. She has been married twice, divorced twice, has a successful career, but this experience is still with her today.

I just don't think I realized the gravity and effect of loving and losing Josh will have on my life. I've come to accept that I'm a whole new person, and I like me a whole lot better now. But I just didn't realize the full extent, and I guess I still don't know. Maybe at the end of my life (or after) will be when I fully understand how Josh has impacted my life.

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kellymarie,

You got it! Each one of us is a different person now because of our loved ones death. I believe that we are a better person because of it. We are changed, and we will never be the same again. Normal for us is entirely different now. We will never know the extent of how our loved on being in our life is and will probably never know the full extent until we ourselves are in heaven. Just know that the pain will ease and there will be a time that you will remember Josh and will smile instaed of cry. But remember this also, there are times where you will grieve again and it will feel like it just happened, but those time will be longer and longer between and the pain will be less intense as time goes on. Keep on walking the walk.

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Kellymarie,

There is a book that Paul recommended to me called "Companion Through the Darkness" by Stephanie Ericsson that I am half-way through. The woman in the book lost her husband too and I think you might be helped by this book. It's very raw and emotional, but a really good read.

Hugs,

Shell

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