More Insensitivity!

[Maylissa]

Well, this was the last thing I needed to bring home with me today, seeing as my H's away overnight and this is a pretty big 'first' for me - I've never been all alone in this house before, without Nissa here beside me, and I'm feeling the effects of that. That was enough for me to handle all by itself today, thanks. But I'd gone to the store and happened to run into someone else I'd also just been thinking about this week (there's a trend here lately....). This was a couple we'd known for years, as they were our supplier of organic meat and eggs for Sabin's and Nissa's homemade food. That means we've known them for about a decade or more and I'd considered them friends, though we didn't get to see them very often. When we did, though, we'd often spend a few hours visiting and sharing, except last year when Nissa couldn't be left alone for that long anymore. So they were aware of her condition, our concerns and my fears.

They've been busy battling their daughter's cancerous condition for the last few years, just as we'd been battling Nissa's steady decline, and how I'd battled Sabin's cancer, and we'd each shared much about each of our woes with each other in the past. And yet, when I ran into them this time, knowing they didn't yet even know about what had eventually happened to Nissa (we'd had no occasion to visit them anymore to buy turkeys and chickens and they'd never called to inquire), I certainly wasn't expecting what actually transpired. As we began to briefly get caught up, I naturally mentioned Nissa's passing. The man simply walked away at that point, saying nothing whatsoever, and the woman merely said, "Oh...." and then launched directly into how she'd been feeling about her daughter. Not even an almost-obligatory "I'm sorry to hear that"!!! I was floored, as they'd always known how we felt about our kids! (that's WHY we'd even met them, after all!)

This was like the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I was, and am, DONE with trying to be the understanding one, and am no longer prepared to give even an INCH with insensitive clouts anymore! I stood there listening to her go on about her own sorrow, but gave her nothing more back than what I'd just gotten. Oh, I know, I know....but it's her own, human daughter who's sick, and I should be more understanding, yadda-yadda....but I'm totally fed up with this glaring inequity from people. MY feelings are worth just as much as anyone else's and I'm tired of having to stuff mine while others expect me, in the same breathe, to cater to theirs! UGH!!!! I'm just so freakin' HURT!!! Perhaps I should have just broken down in the tears I was trying so hard to choke back. Would have served them right! I NEVER would have expected such callousness from these people and neither did my H, who I just told this story to on the phone. He was as shocked and dismayed as I. You can't trust hardly anybody anymore to even be civil, much less understanding or compassionate. Needless to say, we won't be visiting these people any time soon, even though now we could!

Thanks for listening to my rant. Now I hope I've gotten a bit of this out and won't get as much indigestion from dinner!

[Matt Dawson]

Try not being too bitter. Your pets mean much more to you than most people understand - don't hold them at fault for that. Some folks just don't comprehend that animals can be "family members", too.

This particular scenario seems even more complex, though. They are dealing with a daughter with cancer and the possibility of losing her - I can't imagine what it must be like to lose a child, but I do know what it's like to lose a brother that way. My folks took it very hard and at times in the process, they just wouldn't have been capable of properly expressing sympathy with other people's burdens - it certainly wouldn't mean they didn't care.

I hope the relationship stays friendly for you & I'm sorry about Nissa.

Matt

[Maylissa]

Hi Matt,

WARNING, WILL ROBINSON! This is one angry post!!

(Note: throughout this reply, please know that I'm NOT referring to any "pet loss" board members or others who've jumped forums to help, either here or on other boards I've frequented)

I'd have to say that "it's too late!" I'm already bitter. After having Nissa's death be minimized, disenfranchised and ignored by too many people who continually won't allow me to talk about it/her, the damage has been done. They all caused this extra damage, not me. They all complicated my grief, making it much harder to heal. All these people were supposed to be friends, but they've all chosen to not act like friends. And frankly, I don't even care anymore what the 'excuses' all are because there are just too many of them to count, and it's always something!

I'd always graciously let this woman talk about her daughter, her fears, and any other problems she'd been having all through the years and even tried all the time to help her by empathizing whenever and wherever I possibly could which was quite often, actually, since I've had other family losses, too. For her part, she'd let me talk, but didn't go quite as far with the 'helping' aspect. (But she did make out as if she accepted, if not totally understood, the depth and passion of our relationship to our girl, hence my shock now.) Friendship is supposed to be a give and take, and I'm tired of being the one to always put other people before my own needs. It was TIME for her and others to be the ones to give, and they've chosen not to. If the DEATH of someone isn't enough to bring out some generosity of spirit in someone, what ever will be? Nothing, as far as I can tell! And hey, her daughter is still alive at least; MINE isn't! But that doesn't deserve any more consideration than anything else, obviously!

I DO know what it's like to lose a daughter ~ NISSA was our daughter, whether people like it or not!!! And with this last blow, it becomes very apparent that I can only look forward to more of the same. In other words, I'd have to wait at least another 2 decades I figure, until animal loss is finally an 'acceptable' enough loss for people to pay it the due respect it deserves. How in the world can I NOT be angry about that?! Do THEY have to wait? NO! By then, my feline daughter will have been dead for as long as she'd been alive! I'm not prepared to be that generous, nor that patient.

I'd just reread a link here from Marty on how they've already scientifically measured the chemical reactions in people during grief and found there were absolutely NO differences, no matter WHO someone had lost! Why isn't this vital information already getting out there?!?! I'll tell you why - because people don't WANT to know! I'm fed up with people. Even if they can't or just don't want to agree with the depth of someone's relationship with someone else, whether skinned, furred, feathered or what have you, the least they could do would be to act civilly about it and respond to that person's pain, laying their ignorance aside for even a lousy minute. Even basic manners are seen as unnecessary when you're talking about animals. Our species doesn't deserve to survive, if this is the best we can do! And yet, humans look down their arrogant noses at non-human animals....it makes me sick.

All through Nissa's worse phase of illness, I was still expected to act normally with almost everyone, even when it became apparent that she was failing and I began to suffer anticipatory grief. I was shut down, shut off, deflected, you name it.....human concerns and only human concerns were deemed worthy of conversation. Except everyone forgot that I'm human, too, yet MY concerns were of no concern! So they even got that wrong. And now that the epitome of "worse" has come to pass, I still have to take a back seat!

Even the person who apologized to me this week for acting so disrespectfully about the news of her death only apologized because he found out from someone that she'd been almost 20....as if AGE alone has anything to do with it! I told him that her brother had only been 13 when he died and that I'd still been equally devastated.....but he sloughed that part off as if it didn't matter. Nope. He'd made up his mind already that HE was right, period and he wasn't about to let any new information in. Humans overall don't WANT to learn a damn thing, especially when it comes to grief and other species. They prefer to remain ignorant and arrogant and keep their hearts closed, and I'm sick of it. It's about TIME that people became willing to start to comprehend what those who aren't so stuck-up have learned and experienced about going back to our very roots again....when non-human animals were respected and even revered for the, I'll say, as others have too, wiser beings they are!

Where's all the understanding for ME?? Where's the imagination for MY loss?? Where's the caring for MY broken heart?? If humans are so great, why don't more of THEM take the high road and just do what's KIND?? Excuses.....just excuses....

[dpodesta]

Maylissa,

Most people don't know how to respond to a death. I run across it everynow and then when my wife's death is mentioned. I know right now that you are angry and I can understand your feelings of not wanting to give if you are not going to recieve in return. All I can say is that we need people out there to live as an example, to show people how or what to say. That was probably her way of changing the subject or she may not have even processed what you were saying since she has the stress of dealing with cancer with her daughter. Just don't give up on people yet, one day the example you give will show through someone else.

Love always

Derek

[Maylissa]

Hi Derek,

Thanks for listening, and responding. But you see, that's the difference....you've run across this "every now and then", while with animal loss it's pretty much constant! How do you (or anyone else) think you'd end up feeling if virtually everyone ignored or minimized your loss, or worse, made fun of it.....say 20 people for every 1, or even poorer odds? (I haven't had the heart to actually do a head-count on this from my own experiences, because I already know it's bad)

I just don't want, anymore, to have to be an example....at least not for those who don't want to take note. Do you really think anyone who's self-absorbed is even going to notice? I don't. And how many people nowadays aren't self-absorbed? That's the sad and depressing part. Believe me, I've tried 'working with' people like that over time, and nothing ever changes. I'm getting older already, and feeling even older than I really am, and that elusive "one day" sounds far too distant for comfort. (though I appreciate you trying to give me something inspirational to hang on to!) Being an example puts even more pressure on me. I am who I am and will be whoever I'll become as whatever is going to evolve in me continues to evolve. That's a given. I can't NOT be who I am. However, if I have to be MORE than I am at any given moment....like a super-forgiving, super-understanding doormat...then I'm just setting myself up for failure and more heartache. I'm just so angry that I don't WANT to understand anyone else's world anymore, at least not those who've chosen to be self-centered.

As I'd said, even when I was suffering terribly with anticipatory grief, hardly anyone (local, and even most of my distant friends) cared to understand. This woman's current position is not really different than mine was (and let's not get technical about the type of disease), yet she's already got family and friends around her who care. She's got waaaay more than I had, even if her situation isn't perfect. And yet I'm supposed to also be supportive, understanding or forgiving? Forget THAT! That good stuff for 'regular' folks has been drummed right out of me, by 'regular' folks. The only people I intend on using it for now are those who I know aren't against accepting animal loss as JUST as valid. The rest of them can get their support and understanding elsewhere! I don't have to be a saint to be valuable, but that's the message I keep getting, and I don't like it.

If the odds weren't so terribly stacked against finding more people who hold animals and animal loss in higher regard, I'd have more hope for the future. But this isn't something that's going to just go away on its own any time soon, and so I've lost most of that hope. Only if and when those who are suffering because of this rise up and DEMAND some respect (by whatever means), is it going to change. And while there do seem to be many, many of us around the world, we tend to isolate, not because we want to but because people keep hurting us when we can't take any more pain!

It's all well and good for this woman, because despite her sorrows, she'll have human counterparts all around her to help her through whatever's to come. But for me and others like me, we have to resort to pet loss forums, or paying for support through therapists (many of whom also don't recognize 'pet' loss as an equally valid loss, which also contributes to our stress in finding help), because we've been so shut out from all that support elsewhere. It's ALL we usually have to choose from and that's grossly unfair. I've even noticed some resistances from therapists, where it was obvious they didn't really 'get' what this was like, despite saying they'd treat this kind of loss like any other loss. So even paying for someone to understand doesn't always work. That's pathetic.

Like I said, this was the straw that broke this camel's back. It was my angry, and then desperate {turned towards my H} facial expressions that got the ball rolling on that apology, btw. If the only thing that people are going to really notice is anger or outright tears, or BOTH together!, then they'd better watch out, cuz I'm comin'!

[MartyT]

Maylissa, dear ~

Your encounter with the mother whose daughter is struggling with cancer reminds me of the David Kessler quote I shared with you many months ago: Why do we keep looking for support in all the wrong places? It's like shopping for milk in a hardware store! In that same post, I went on to say to you that it seems to me that in your present state of mind, it just makes good sense to protect yourself by intentionally avoiding situations and gatherings where you are more likely to encounter the insensitivity of others. Could it be that your expectations of this couple were unrealistic, given the circumstances you describe?

Maylissa, we all know how vulnerable and fragile we are when we are anticipating or coping with the death of a loved one. Clearly this couple was unable to tune into your pain, probably because they are blinded by the intensity of their own pain right now. It’s also possible that they were thinking that the anticipated loss of their daughter could not begin to compare to the actual loss of your beloved Nissa.

In my work with bereaved animal lovers, I always caution them to be very careful in choosing where they look for comfort and support. As Derek says, “Most people don’t know how to respond to a death,” and we both know that many people still do not begin to understand the strength of the human-animal bond, much less the pain of loss that is felt by bereaved animal lovers. This is particularly evident when these same people are anticipating or mourning the death of a human loved one.

With regard to comparing the magnitude of our losses, I’m repeating below a message I posted in another forum some time ago:

Posted by: Marty, Monday, Mar 6, 2006 @ 9:37 AM

Dear Ones,

I want to add my voice to this discussion, by gently suggesting to all our members and visitors that it is pointless to compare the magnitude of one person’s loss with that of another.

Is it harder to lose a spouse than a parent? Would losing a child be worse than losing a spouse? Would a sudden, unexpected death be harder to accept than a long, slow, painful one? And which is worse: loss of a leg, or loss of an arm? Would you rather lose your eyesight or your hearing? These losses are neither better or worse, harder or easier, one from another – rather, they are each different from one another. There is not a person among us who can answer any of these questions honestly unless and until that particular loss has happened to us, and even then, it would be different for each one of us, depending on our own individual circumstances and the meaning we attach to what we have lost.

Grief is not just confined to losing a person through death.

Intense feelings of loss can come from the ending of a marriage by separation or divorce.

A move can produce feelings of grief.

A rape. A job loss. Loss of a body part or body function.

Financial loss. Loss of dignity and respect.

Loss of a pet.

One of the most difficult counseling situations I ever had involved Jonathan

whose seeing-eye dog of ten years, Angel, died.

Angel was Jonathan's live-in partner,

his dearest family member,

his closest work associate,

his trusted servant,

his most faithful friend,

an actual extension of himself,

a literal part of his being -- his eyes.

When Angel died,

all of that was lost.

- Douglas C. Smith, MA, MS, MDiv

I believe that one of the greatest benefits of these forums is that, by posting, reading and responding to the messages written here, we'll all come to a greater understanding of the grief that accompanies all the different kinds of loss we may experience in life, and we’ll learn to be more caring, accepting and tolerant of one another. Here in this warm and caring place, we recognize that grief is neither a contest nor a competition. For every single person here, at this moment in time, our own loss is the worst that could happen to anyone. We are not here to pass judgment on the strength or legitimacy of anyone else’s grief. Where there is loss, there is grief. Pain is pain. Only you can know the special place in your life and in your heart that was occupied by your loved one, and you are the only one who can measure just how much you have lost.

[Maylissa]

Marty,

So if I get this right, point one: Be Very Selective (and careful). But that's part of my point - I'd have to either never leave the house, or if I have to, not talk to anybody out there, just to avoid being minimized at every corner! I'd even have to cover my ears because there's almost always one nasty comment or another about the worthlessness of animals in general. I'm being forced to isolate and every grief book out there tells you not to do this. Perhaps they should all start adding an addendum to that expert advice - "EXCEPT for those who've lost a treasured animal! YOU people should lock yourselves in your house and throw away the key!" (I'd laugh if I wasn't so angry) I couldn't have known in advance of running into them what their current situation was. This only came up because of the way the conversation went w/i the first minute, and I was forced to tell them about Nissa. My news was out before I even knew their news.

In like fashion, some neighbours from farther down the street have suddenly asked me outright lately if we still have Nissa and I'd have to be totally rude to not answer them at all. It's too late at that point unless you're willing to literally run away....and appear to be a total loon! It can't be completely avoided everywhere, and these responses just add up and take their toll after awhile. At least with the guy at the party, we DID expect 'trouble', but also did something about it by our reactions to his comments - we didn't just accept them, or even let him get away with them, but 'fought' back.

Point two: Have Realistic Expectations. At this point, ALL I was expecting (and not seeing this as unreasonable) was nothing more than a simple "Oh, sorry", or "That's too bad" or something similar.....and then for the subject to likely be changed! My point is that it's getting even worse than that! A flat "Oh," does not even qualify as an even halfway meaningful response. Sure, sure, maybe they do happen to be "blinded by the intensity of their own pain right now." Again, the damage had already been done by the time I even found out about their current news. It was too late to stop my internal pain. And I was too instantly angry to even feel sorry for them this time.

The second part you mentioned about their (more-than-likely) comparing of losses, I was somewhat prepared for, but not to this extent, because that means, based on our history of conversations.....they've been LYING about their 'acceptance' all along! So do I now expect everyone, in advance, to be a liar, too? It's looking like such cynicism would be in good order! We're also told to stay as positive about things and people as possible, which is contradictory to staying realistic. How are we supposed to know which one to pick in any single moment? Also, from my experience anyway, one also does not usually expect that those who raise animals organically have zero compassion for their lives and I based part of my expectations on this as well. I've visited with their chickens and turkeys and seen how they're treated.....and was impressed! (and as you know, I'm not easily impressed when it comes to animal stuff!) Additionally, this man actually got rip-roaring DRUNK after he'd slaughtered the one cow they'd bought one year (and never repeated THAT little foray again) and his wife said she knew it was because he felt too guilty for what he'd done. Yet they obviously think even their farm animals are above the importance of my cat! So they're no better than anyone else around here - only somethiiiiiing that makes you MONEY deserves a second thought. So yes, I was shocked and I think reasonably so.

There IS nowhere I can go, and no one around, who most likely WON'T minimize this, and that's what I'm railing about, because that's what's become more than evident. Maybe everyone's forgotten....I live in "cattle country" (my apologies to the individual cows, calves and steers for this nomenclature), where most animals are often treated barely better than dirt.....and cats are too often 'vermin' and waaaaay below dogs. Heck, even the dirt is more valued because it supports the 'cattle'! I've tried my hardest to remain hopeful that my Creator would lead me to the few around here who might just understand, while having to suffer these repeated attacks as my patience slowly drained away. Come to think of it, that's probably why the ones who are being sent to me aren't human ~ they're feline! She knows humans around here aren't worth wasting my time on! It's the whole picture that's making me sick!

Even though I don't run a no-kill shelter like the woman I know out here (and she's far too busy and exhausted to run to for support), this lack of caring reminds me, except to a much lesser degree, of what she's been going through for over 20 years already. People just keep abusing and abandoning animals and she has to deal with the aftermath of that, day in, day out, unceasingly. She's disgusted, angry, worn out and nothing if not terribly bitter. I can't blame her one bit and I would never dare suggest to her that she try to extend her compassion or understanding to those who give her such unending grief, when her pain is already so great. That would seem to me to be completely unreasonable and asking far too much of her. So I can have an intellectual understanding of these people's actions, but the emotional reactions just ARE and, like her, I just need someone to agree that these attitudes simply suck big-time! And also like her, I'd like to see more people refusing to put up with this nonsense, because nothing changes until society starts fighting for what they value.

Maybe I need to start hanging around the CNIB (Cdn. Institute For The Blind)....

Edited October 2, 2007 by Maylissa

[dpodesta]

Maylissa,

I am so sorry that you are having such a difficult time with people understanding your feelings, that would upset me as well. Unfortunately that is the way people in the world view the loss of pets. They seem to get over the loss very quickly. So that leaves the rest of us stuck in the middle with no way to turn. It brings to mind something I heard a long time ago, when we don't set expectations we don't get hurt. I know that we would like to change everyones views on the loss of a pet, I wish I had an idea to tell you on how to do this. I wish I could help you to get rid of the pain you are feeling right now.

Love always

Derek

[suzanne]

Maylissa

I have not talked with you before but I have read your posts. I am so sorry for your loss of Nissa. I can tell how much you love her. I too am a furbaby lover. My husband and I had a daschund for 14 years, Cindy, I thought I would die when we had to have her put to sleep for back problems (ruptured disk). This was her second one. The first one was when she was eight years old. The surgery was very expensive and a lot of people didn't understand why we spent so much money for a dog, but like you she wasn't an animal, she was our daughter. I would have spent anything, they gave her an 80% chance of recovery then. Alas, on the last one at 14 years of age, surgery was no longer an option. That was 2002. We both decided we would never have another dog because we could never love one like we did our Cindy. My husband died in March of this year and everyone told me to get another dog. I didn't think I could love anything but I finally went to animal control in May and adopted my Layla. A little Maltese mix. She is just the joy of my life. They give such unconditonal love and her little breathe on my back as she cuddles up next to me at night is a feeling you can't describe. Don't let what others say upset you so. Some people just don't understand what love animals give us but then they have missed out on so much by not knowing what it is to love and care for one of these little ones who depend so much on us. But I guess in reality we depend on them even more.

Suzanne

[Maylissa]

Derek,

Thanks so much for your understanding. Yes, the world is harsh that way....although many animal lovers don't 'get over' their babies' losses very quickly, even if it sometimes appears that way. Many just cover it up in society because no one wants to acknowledge it as a huge, and often complicated, loss. I honestly believe that if all of us who believe in the validity of 'pet loss' grief (even if one hasn't gone through it oneself) started letting others know we strongly disagreed with the disenfranchisement of this type of loss and the less-than-compassionate treatment we mourners receive, things would start to shift more rapidly than they have so far. So that's something many of us CAN do, for the benefit of all.

I just can't imagine having to go through the whole rest of my life without being given a real chance to openly talk about my girl and what she meant to me....without being either laughed at, sneered at, or snubbed. My heart is just so full of resentment about this that it's so obviously affecting my healing potential....and, here's the resentment.....it's because of what they've done!

Suzanne,

Thank you for also jumping forums to talk to me. I'm so sorry you, too, lost a furbaby....your dear Cindy....and of course, your husband, too!, so recently. I know the poor dachshunds are genetically predisposed to bad spinal problems. We know someone else here who, bless her heart as well (as yours), put off her honeymoon! because their dachshund needed a $3000 spinal surgery...and it's only helped for a little while.

And I'm 'glad' that you know how awful this kind of loss can be as well. ALL loss feels terrible, even if there are some differences among them, and it kills me that people refuse to even consider that. (their hearts and minds are SO closed-off!) The looks from some people of actually being offended that you DARE call an animal by a familial term such as "son" or "daughter"....it seriously makes me want to punch that expression right off their faces! I want to tell them "Your offended look offends ME!....so you're getting back exactly what you gave out!"

I'm tickled pink that you've adopted another fuzzy soul to give and receive love with, especially if it helps you with your own feelings of loneliness. And glad to know she's a rescued baby, too! (the only kind to get, if you ask me - you're part of the solution, not part of the problem) Some have suggested I do the same, but I know myself and I'm nowhere near ready. I have a lot of grief work to get through first, plus some other, more practical and long-overdue things to get done first (like household repairs, etc.) Layla IS, of course, yet another charmer, I'm sure! They all are!

I never got breathe on my back (but it sounds yummy!), but my kidlets always slept with me/us....after I tossed the stupid advice to NOT let them, in my first pet care book, out the window! that took less than a week .....and after her brother passed, Nissa cuddled up even closer since she knew her place beside me was assured for the entire night, and she was grieving, too. After that, we never spent any night (that I was home) without our bedtime ritual and cuddles. I can't even bear to sit in those feelings yet, of how heavenly it felt for her to hunker in SO close to me it was unbelievable, sharing kisses, letting me bury my nose in her fur, wherever, holding her tiny, little back foot in my hand or her front arm cupped in my hand.....(oh, here comes the river of tears...). We must have dozens of pictures of her and I sleeping together - one of our favourite pastimes! I hate sleeping now. After almost 20 years of that nighttime bliss.....only FUR will do...I can't help it.

I know lots of animal lovers say we ought to pity the people who don't understand, because "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened." ~ Anatole France....but somehow I just can't, because I know that love is a CHOICE we make, not just an emotion, and so these people are CHOOSING, on whatever level(s) to be or remain arrogant, 'superior', closed-off, insensitive, etc., etc., despite all the empirical evidence all around them that says it's foolish thinking. Just as they've closed off their hearts to these truths, I've closed mine to them, and so far it just won't open again. I used to feel sorry for them to some degree....but not now. They're making people like me suffer, and the suffering they add to animals' lives is even more incalculable.

And you're so right ~ WE are the dependent ones, because they so naturally give us more than we are even able to give ourselves. So what's NOT to love in them???? And what's NOT to miss even more?

[dpodesta]

Maylissa,

You sound better today, unfortunately it is what the others do that bothers us. Hopefully there will be enough people that come to this site that eventually pet grief will be more recognized. It is something we will have to pray for.

Love always

Derek

[Corinne]

Maylissa,

I am so sorry for your deep pain. I have had many furdogs which I have lost and yes they are your children and the pain is deep. I will join my prayers with Derek's for more people understanding the pain of our lost babies.

Hugs & prayers,

Corinne

P.S.

Thank you for helping Teny with her dream, I did not know where to look to find the answers she needed.

[Maylissa]

Thanks, Derek and Corinne! Your help with this is very appreciated!

I'm also pondering whether I ought to have a T-shirt or jacket printed up with at least part of this gem that Marty had posted here awhile ago, from an interview between Bob Olson and Laura Scott:

"Scientists have recently discovered that no matter what the cause, all forms of grief create physical pain and chemical reactions in our body. In other words, grief in any form takes a measurable toll on us physically, one that can actually be quantified and seen in laboratories. The second interesting thing about these studies is that grief over the loss of loved one, whether human or animal, both measured the same identical effects in the body. So whether we are grieving a spouse, or a beloved animal companion the effects in our bodies are equal. That is an important finding because it offers us an opportunity to have more compassion for ALL those who grieve, not just those we can relate to, or those losses we deem 'worthy.' "

Then I could just wear it all the time and simply POINT to it when stuff like this happens!!

[dpodesta]

It needs to be shortned to something like this:

Scientific research has proved that the physical and chemical reactions in our bodies to grief are identical whether it be human or animal.

That way they will be able to read it quickly.

Love always

Derek

[Maylissa]

Yes, exactly. But I'd add a couple of words, like this:

Scientific research has proved that the physical and chemical reactions in our bodies to grief are EQUALLY identical, be it human or animal loss.

OR,

Whether grieving a human or a beloved animal companion the effects of grief in our bodies are scientifically-proven EQUAL and identical.

....maybe on a shopping bag or something that's easy to tote around....

Edited October 3, 2007 by Maylissa

[dpodesta]

Then end it with, if you don't have anything nice to say about the above statement then leave me alone.

[Maylissa]

Oh, Derek....that's puuuurfect! Now all I need is a big enough tote bag! Honestly, this is starting to feel like a great protective/educational device to take out into the world! We should all get one! Anyone know any manufacturers? (grin)

Edited October 3, 2007 by Maylissa

[DoubleJo]

Maylissa: As a former business owner who personally dealt with customers all the time, I have this to say: Just for the simple reason that you were a good customer, you should have gotten at least an oh, I'm so sorry. After all, her business was directly involved with the subject of your pet.

It was stupid businesswise and foolish personwise. I AM surprised at her response, because it was so cold and she turned you off. She could have felt a small kinship with you because of her daughter and your Nissa that would have led to that discussion about her. The cancer did not just happen, she had been dealing with it for awhile. It was making natural conversation over what you both had mutually in common- your pet. Casual catching up conversation is a nice social thing that keeps things pleasant when you run into someone. You don't ignore them, then THEY"D be offended!~You are right. Marty misses the point.

It was a meeting, it led to informal discussion that went needlessly callous. I must say, Maylissa, you are on a run of stupid people.

Take care- Doublejo

[Maylissa]

Dearest DoubleJo,

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! The points you made are right on the mark! And you're SO right about the business perspective, in addition to the people perspective! This was, no question, a "cold" and "callous" response to a long-time friend, who had done her (our) best to lend personal help in the past and to try and help keep their business afloat when their own mistakes had been causing it to fail. (I hadn't thought I'd even needed to make this additional point before, but I will now)

I think these people have just turned selfish, and while I could choose to understand the whys and wherefores if I wanted, I'm just too beaten down already to wish to, period. Instead, let them put themselves in my shoes for a change. If their daughter had already died and they'd gotten almost nothing but responses like this (and worse) to her death for over a year, I'm sure they'd be as angry as I am by now. Intellect can only go so far when it comes to emotional NEEDS that simply aren't getting met.

Hardly anybody around me here has ever made the time to understand what I'm going through (or have gone through), while I've done my best to do that for them. And now, when I need some of the same back....I'm still just supposed to be the 'good listener', the empathizer, the friend, to them!. They've abrogated their part of the 'bargain'. All that effort on my part has not been returned and I just can't DO it anymore. I.....just.....CAN'T. It's TOO unequal. I'm too burned out, tired out, discouraged, disgusted. I feel more than a little bit undervalued. I just don't count. It's been feeling like the negative messages I received at the hands of my parents are actually coming true!!...even though I haven't believed them in years!! I'm NOT this or that "enough".

"Run of stupid people" is right!! But there are over a million of them around here....and I can't seem to find even ONE who's on the same page as me, or who will even try to read that page! It's just unbelievable.

You've saved a part of my sanity, DoubleJo, for seeing things how they really are. BLESS you for that!!!! And as they say, "wish you were here...."

[DoubleJo]

Maylissa: I had to share this with you.

There is an elderly woman I am an acquaintance with. She is lonely and is always asking me to go to lunch with her when I call her.( She needs someone to talk to). She keeps saying she would pick me up, how proud she is of her driving skills, (I'm not driving now) and she'd drive us to a restaurant.

I'm not that thrilled about it, but figured I would make a day for it.

She called and left a message for me last night to tell me about a meeting at a "senior center" if I want to go. I called her today. Said I would love to go ( I'm too young for this group, I'm only 57), and to make her feel good I said that I would enjoy her company as we would ride over together.

"Oh- you live so far away from me "(when she wanted to pick me up for a lunch we 'were so close'), "I get lost easily, um um... Maybe I can find someone else to pick you up".

I have gotten this nonsense so many times my spit would fill a bathtub.

I go out of my way to be nice and do something I really don't want to do to make someone feel better and THEY brush me off !

I will tell you I usually never go out of my way or do something I really don't want to do anymore because people are amazing.

They do not hear themselves. I do not take people seriously anymore until time proves itself. I'm laughing over this but I am annoyed too, because I was going to put myself in an uncomfortable situation to help this woman. My kinder feelings let my guard down. I had every reason to believe she'd pick me up. What can you say?

This isn't about pets or death. It is about human nature. Unlike animals which are more predictable and constant, people are truly amazing. Sadly they amaze in a disappointing way (I didn't call HER to go, she called ME) more often than they amaze in happier ways.

You have to laugh- seeing people as entertainment or a lesson in sociology is easier than taking them too seriously. DoubleJo

[dpodesta]

Doublejo,

I like your take on that last post. You are so right, it really isn't about death but just plain human nature. I think a lot of times people offer someting like that thinking to themselves that we will never take them up on their offer. When we do it catches them off guard and then they have to come up with some excuse. I like to look on the bright side, I truly believe there are more out there that are true to their word than there are ones who are all talk and no action. I have been lucky so far, everyone that has said that they would help me have come through and are still coming through.

Love always

Derek

[suzanne]

DoubleJo & Derek

It is so true about people offering to help and won't follow through. Sometimes I think they just offer to make themselves feel good and never expecting you to really ask. Derek, I'm glad your offers came through. I know that made it a little easier. Mine sure haven't. Including my three stepchildren.

Suzanne

[Maylissa]

Thanks much, everyone! I'll be back later to write again, but right now have to do some running around today (it's "get snow tires back on" time....boooooo). Chat later!

[Maylissa]

DoubleJo,

I'm so glad you shared your story with me and you even made me laugh, what with your "I have gotten this nonsense so many times my spit would fill a bathtub" line as well as your "lesson in sociology" line! Yes, when you can drum it up, you DO have to laugh. It's getting to the point where you can that's the bigger challenge! If ONLY I had a real comedic wit, like you do! That would help!

Naturally, too, I'm as shocked and more than dismayed about what that lady did to you as you are! Unbelievable....and yet, so sadly believable, too! I can really relate to you saying " My kinder feelings let my guard down." I honestly feel sympathy/empathy in my heart for people, and have so often told myself that that's what I should follow, even if I may have some misgivings or doubt....and yet, I just keep getting more and more dismayed that my optimistic outlook on how an outcome might turn out is so continually shot full of holes in actual experience. As I'd said before, I'd hate to think I'll have to live the rest of my life as a raging cynic, even if it IS 'safer'. It's just such a depressing outlook to feel forced into and certainly takes a huge chunk out of any hope one is grasping for for the future! (and yet I'm agreeing with you! ) Another one of my parents' 'tapes' was "the world is a scary, terrible place" and I've fought against belief in that for so long and made much headway, too. So stuff like this REALLY depresses me now.

And yes, our furbabies are much more constant, always there for us, always ready and willing to love us, even at our worst moments.....nay, especially during our worst moments! It's so grounding to have that in your life...and so shocking to lose it! How can one not feel special, honoured and so blessed to witness, firsthand, such 'blind adoration' and realize little ol' YOU are the object of same?! It's this so-sharp contrast between them and these less-than-giving people that makes what these folks do (or not do) that much more painful. And having this knowledge of just HOW incredibly giving our babies choose to be, by comparison, is yet another reason why I rail so against those who would deny their immense value in this world.

If this woman's dieing daughter's dachshund is still alive, I wonder if she shrugs off her own daughter's devotion to her animal companion (her "baby", too, from what I'd been told years ago) just as easily as she's done mine? Probably not, because it's her family's concern....but I still worry about that poor doggy, lest she be forgotten/neglected in the midst of her 'mom's' illness and probable death. (this history lesson was yet another reason I was so shocked at this woman's behaviour - she should be USED to her own daughter's feelings about her own animal companion)

I hesitated to say it here, though I and some others have before in our grief journeys, but in large part whatever was left of my optimism and hope has rapidly turned into the view that "people are scum," for the most part. You are so right when you say that "they do not hear themselves," nor do they want to, I think. They don't take themselves very seriously, either, never mind us not doing so! If they did, they'd stay truer to their words, which they clearly do not. They really don't try very hard....or rather, as in somebody's immortal words (I forget who said this), there really IS no such thing as "trying"; you either DO, or you DON'T DO. Too many just don't do. While they must have their reasons, I'm just tired of playing lay-psychologist to them to try and figure those reasons out. So I still feel like just screaming to people, "HEY! WAKE UP!! I'M grieving and having a really hard time, too!!!...and would it KILL you to care, even a little?!?!?!"

Derek,

I wish I could share your looking on the bright side, but I guess our experiences are what we look to for proof, and unfortunately, mine have been less than rosy, so it's pretty hard to drum up any enthusiasm for a better result "next time." In order to 'protect' how delicate my psyche feels now, I don't dare be hopeful about anybody. My list of things to be grateful for seems to be becoming shorter and shorter each day....and that's pretty frightening! I'm no 'guru', so can't just release all my attachments to outcomes w/o a huge inner battle first...and even then, no, not really. The best I can do is release my grip a little. You're very lucky you have such good people around you. Wish I did, too!

Suzanne,

I agree. It's too often just an ego thing with people....like that framed poem gift I'd received from that one 'friend' (I think I'd mentioned that in one of my threads somewhere), when she clearly wasn't REALLY opening her heart or understanding how I felt/feel about Nissa. (don't wish to transcribe the entire conversation here, but trust me, she didn't 'get' it at all - couldn't even understand why I was crying when thanking her, so what does that tell you?!...." still clueless!", as my H put it)

I'm so very sorry you, too, haven't been fortunate enough to get what you need from others, either. Even when relatives fail us, we hope our friends won't, and so if they do, we're even more at a loss....and have something else to grieve, too, when our plates are already full enough!

******************************************************************************

The other things that have been bothering me lately stem from that 60th birthday party we'd just gone to. Not only was this woman getting a HUGE celebration for her milestone birthday, but she'd already gotten a really nice acknowledgment of it prior to this, so this was EXTRA. I also found out what these people had done for another woman in this circle on her 50th. Meanwhile, again in sharp contrast, I'd spent my last one with NO friends (only my in-laws and H), grieving over Nissa not being her to see me through it, with only one friend sending a special email, another one not even having noticed my previous mention of it being a milestone (with the date), and the one I got the gift from not remembering, either, that it was my own milestone birthday....though hers is this same year, just later on (the nice gift was one she'd planned for last Xmas and never got to me then). Plus, it struck me after this party that the woman in whose honour it was had been the only one in this group of friends who'd known precisely the day we'd had to euthanise our girl, that being right before her last year's BBQ party, which we'd obviously declined. And yet, I realized upon reflection after this party, that in this entire past year, she'd never even TOLD anyone why we'd been absent last year! Talk about getting no acknowledgment whatsoever!

Man....I'm telling you, I couldn't feel like less than a speck of dirt if I tried... Without my girl's love here to get me through all this invisibility, it's no wonder I don't have any will to live left.

Edited October 6, 2007 by Maylissa

[suzanne]

Maylissa

You are not alone. So many of us know how much you love Nissa and miss her. She was your baby girl and you will always love her. I as well loved the "spit in a bathtub" from DoubleJo. Furbabies are so giving and loving at all times. They don't care what kind of a day you had as long as you came home to them. It is such a joy to come home at night and my Layla gives me hugs and kisses from being gone from her all day. I do hope the woman is taking care of her daughters daschund. Their backs are so fragile and once a problem occurs will follow them the rest of their lives.

Don't give up on people. I haven't found many out there yet with understanding but I know they exist. Look at us here as proof. Ignore the others.

Suzanne