Touchy Subject

[Corinne]

Hi Everyone,

I know it is a touchy subject but I need to discuss it. It was said in another post that people who take their own lives go to another place. (Please don't feel bad because I understand why you said it.) I cannot accept that because that would mean I would never see my beloved Jimmy again. Jimmy had terminal colon cancer and was in his last days per the hospice nurses. He was bedfast as he was so weak and had not eaten in 10 days. Christmas morning 1996 he asked me what day it was, I told him Christmas, he said not that what day of the week. I told him, he said OK and I told him I loved him and went to take a shower. While I was in the shower I heard a loud bang. I went running into the bedroom and there he was. He had shot himself with a gun we kept under the bed for protection. He was in so much pain and was a proud man and I don't think he could stand that I had to do everything for him. I do believe one day I will see him again. This brings me to another question, why is it that they allow animals to be euthanized to put them out of their suffering and pain, but do not give humans the right, when they are going to die anyway, to die with dignity? I never new what my opinion was on euthanization until I watched Jimmy go through what he went through and the fact that he had to shoot himself to end the pain quicker. I do believe that a person that wants to end his life before these horrible diseases take away what pride they have left should have to be checked by several Drs. so that there is no chance that there is something that can be done and that it is not just because they don't want to live anymore, but I do believe it should be allowed. I do not believe people should take their own lives because life is hard because I believe life is precious and sacred.

Sorry everyone, I know it is a touchy subject but I needed to vent a little.

I love you all!

Hugs & prayers,

Corinne

[karenb]

I'm sure you must need to vent. It has to be extremely hard to have one so ill they just want to not even be here. My husband mentioned it a couple times. I don't feel I could comment one way or the other. My faith tells me that only God can judge, but I know he's a loving God and I firmly believe he wouldn't do anything bad to anything he's created and we're all his creatures. I hope you are coming to terms with this, it's got to be hard. My ex-mother-in-law is 102 and healthy but ask the question, "Why can't I just lie down and die?" I just keep telling her it must not be the right time. I can't say how I feel about the "right to die." Living wills and things like that keep us from lingering when there's no hope but it's all a very big question and we feel one way or the other...I guess I'm in the middle and it would depend on the individual situation. Hang in there, girl, you've had a lot to deal with.

Your friend, Karen

[DesertBob]

Corinne,

I am so, so sorry. What a terrible, terrible thing to have to witness, and how terrible for your husband to have suffered so.

Linda and I had a lot of very long conversations about this very topic. Like your husband, she did not want to be helpless and lose all of what little self-determination she had. Besides, a lot of people with MCS end up in nursing homes that won't accommodate their illness, preferring to dope them up instead. There are plenty of horror stories out there.

We came to believe that there is a place for so-called rational suicide. She joined the Final Exit organization and made certain arrangements should she ever get to that place. I did not much care for this but supported her in it.

You are absolutely right, Corinne ... we are kinder to our dogs than we are to our loved ones. For our furry friends we provide a painless release, with full support from loved ones and from medicine. For our fellow human being, though, we have nothing but sour grapes and disapproval, because people driven to such a desperate place remind us how fragile life, health, and civilization itself is.

Every person has to decide for themselves what their non-negotiables are. Some would argue that isn't for anyone to decide, not even someone for themselves. I respect that, but no longer agree.

I told Linda that as to the question of God's potential disapproval should she get to that point, if he is that petty and vindictive then we are all screwed in any case. The Bible says that Jesus "was tempted in all points as we are". It says "He knows our frame, that we are but dust." Therefore, he will have plenty of compassion for those who can no longer bear the suffering.

Like you, Corinne, while I honor the immense value of life, and would not take such things under consideration lightly, I could not witness that kind of suffering and still support the simplistic viewpoint that no one has the right to ask for relief. As far as I'm concerned, you carry that to its logical conclusion, and we should outlaw pain killers, too. When life consists 110% of pain, that person can no longer enjoy life. There is a place where further life is truly pointless and even sadistic to force on someone.

There is something else that may be of comfort to you, Corinne. Universally, people who have prepared an "exit strategy" testify that, paradoxically, it gives them the security to go on longer and to endure more. Don't think that your husband did what he did on a whim. He had thought about it a long time, and that gun under the bed was actually a comfort to him because he knew he had a way to end it if he ever got to the point that he couldn't take it any more. I am certain that Linda lived many months longer than she otherwise would have, because of her foresight and practicality in this matter.

Lastly, don't think that a lot of medical and hospice workers don't secretly wish they could provide this humane alternative when asked. Don't think that a lot of people don't beg their doctors to help them in such a need, and don't think that some of them don't quietly do so, despite the risks.

Rest assured you are not alone in this Corinne, it has happened before and although it's a tragedy that society makes it much more painful than it already inherently is, it is not in any way sick or evil.

--Bob

[Corinne]

Bob,

Thank you so much, you have expressed my feelings exactly. Jimmy did not take his life on a whim. Jimmy never did anything without thoroughly and completely thinking it through. It just breaks my heart that while we can stand by and hold and comfort our furry friends while they humanely go to sleep my precious Jimmy had to do it alone without me being able to hold him and comfort him as he went on his final journey. I just feel that it is so sad that society shows more compassion for our furry loved ones than for our human loved ones. I have had to put some of my precious pets to sleep and though it is extremely hard it is also comforting knowing that they have gone on peacefully and are no longer suffering.

Hugs & prayers,

Corinne

[LarrysGirl]

Corinne, I'm so sorry that you have had this experience and I'm sorry for your husband, that he suffered. I just wanted to say that since Larry died my faith has been rocked. Not sure what to think anymore. My father was a Methodist minister and I was raised in the church. But that hasn't helped me deal with this loss yet. I've wondered where God is, and why, of course, didn't he heal Larry. Larry didn't end his life but I wanted to comment on this topic. It doesn't make sense to me if God is loving then why would those be punished for not being able to take the pain and suffering anymore.

This is a touchy topic. I hope those of you, who have your faith still, will take into consideration that for some of us, it doesn't make any sense anymore. Its a personal choice. Deborah

[Corinne]

Deborah,

This Christmas it will be 11 years since Jimmy is gone and Christmas eve will be 10 months since John is gone. When Jimmy died it caused me to abandon God. I am just finding Him again. I realize that it is the teachings of men that confused me it was not God. I do believe now that God was with me the whole time. I do not believe that God is so cruel that He would not allow us into Heaven because we could not handle the pain of disease. I do not even try to understand why these things happen here on this Earth, why some are healed and some are not, but I do believe someday we will know the answers.

Hugs & prayers,

Corinne

[WendyJ]

Corinne I am sitting here speechless and I am so sorry if I upset you with what I said. I had no idea that happened to you and I guess I don't always think before I open my mouth. Please forgive me if I upset you, I really am very very sorry and I think maybe I should sit on the sidelines for awhile before I upset anyone else. Again I am sorry.

Love,

Wendy

[dpodesta]

Corinne,

There is a passage in the Bible that says something to the effect that once someone is in Christ's hands no one can remove them not even the Father who is greater than he is. That tells me that even if I were to take my own life, then I would still go to Heaven. Because if God the Father can't remove me from Jesus's hands then there is no way that I could.

Love always

Derek

[AnnieO]

Wendy,

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would think that everyone here knows you did not mean to upset anyone. That's the great thing about this site, the understanding and compassion that everyone gives eachother. I know I have gone back to read some of my earlier posts and wondered if I upset anyone. I feel safe here and know that I can say what I need to say, there might be people who don't agree, but I have never felt judged or had anyone get mad.

So, please don't sit on the sidelines,you add so much to the site and have helped many people.

[lorikelly]

Corinne

I believe that people who commit suicide go to heaven. i never will believe that God does not allow them into heaven. He loves us all and He also sees and feels there pain. You will see your Jimmy when it is your time. I am so sorry that he had to suffer that much and also for you. Just know that he is in Gods hands and there isn't any pain. God Bless Lori

[Corinne]

Wendy MY FRIEND,

Please do not think that you upset me by your comment, that is why I included the "Please don't feel bad etc." You are my friend and I think the comment that was made actually let me release something that had really been bothering me deep down, so please keep coming back and posting I need you as do the others here. You give me some relief from the pain. All of us at one time or another will say things that others will not agree with but they are our feelings that need to be released. Please, please, please keep coming back. I have chocolate and I can't keep the guys in line by myself!

Love, hugs & prayers,

Corinne

[walter/Erica]

Suicide.....My heart breaks when I read these stories. I am in no position to judge anyone wrt suicide, I love each one of you . I do however know that Jesus was NOT judgemnental at all when on earth. The Bible says that Gods thoughts and ways are not our thoughts and ways, In fact His thoughts are way above our thoughts, so I trust Him completely on this issue. In my circumstances it never came up at all, not by Walter or by me. I guess we just trusted God to see us through, provide us with strength and since we believe that His timing is perfect, we knew Walter would pass on at the right time, Gods appointed time. And it was hard ,believe me because we both suffered. My last prayer a few days before he died was Dear Lord, If you are not going to heal Walter, please take him quickly out of this suffering, even though I want him to be healed....Your will be done,

For me, I have never contemplated suicide but in the darkest moments of my grief,even a few days ago, I find myself desperately wanting to go to heaven, to be with God and Wwalter and out of this painful state..but thsn I find myself thinking that it is NOT my time, and i still have to parent my chidren....

Love

Erica

[kayc]

First of all I want to say that I would not pay a whole lot of heed to any person that would dare judge him for his actions or try to tell you he's going to "a different place"...how can they say that with such certainty? I do know that God is loving and understanding...while human life is very precious and my personal belief is that I don't have the prerogative to end my life, or I might have already done so by now when I was in my lowest points, still, I do not and cannot judge someone else for deciding differently. My former boss' son took his own life and I'd known him since he was a small child, he was in his early 30s when he died. He had battled severe depression for years and was under the care of a doctor for it but nothing had helped. Bobby accepted God when he was a young child and I know he believed in Him, yet his battle here was so hard, I know that God knew and understood that and will be fair in his judgments accordingly. To believe anything differently about God would have to make me reassess my opinions about Him and everything I know to be true about Him. I personally believe Bobby is finally healthy and whole and no longer suffering as he was here. To some people, their dogma is more important to them than their compassion or common sense...to those people, I wouldn't pay a lot of mind to. As to why we can't end our own lives when we can do so with an animal...some people say the difference is that we have a soul and an animal does not...I don't know about all that, all I know is, when my mother in law was suffering from cancer for nearly three years, bedridden, and in excruciating pain, the thought occurred to me to help her out of her misery...I didn't act on it, but I have to tell you, it was really hard not to. I loved that woman more than anything in the world and she was my dearest friend, how could I NOT think that thought when I saw the pain and suffering she went through? This is a hard topic with no easy answers...I think people must decide these things for themselves and the rest of us shouldn't judge it. I think personally that a person's wishes should be regarded, as hard as it may be for those left behind. But that's just my personal thoughts, I wouldn't force my opinions on anyone.

[waabzy]

Corrine I dont believe that those who choose suicide go elsewhere. I am Native American so am not coming from a Christian perspective but our Elders teach us that when we die we all to to the Spirit World. I once asked "Well what about bad, evil people who die? Does this mean if I live a good life I will end up spending eternity with them?" He smiled and said no he believes that those who are evil find a way to hang out with one another and leave the rest of us alone.

Suicide is a VERY difficult choice. I so understand why Jimmy would choose this. I too am "terminally" ill and believe me there have been MANY times over the years that I doubted my ability to handle much more.

the ONLY reason I never chose suicide was because in Native Traditional teachings Suicide is NOT an option.Period.

This doesnt mean I don't understand WHY people choose this. I believe YOU WILL be reunited with your Jimmy.

Take care.

[Stallyn]

Corrinne,

I am at a loss for words of you witness such a horrible experience, I believe personally that if one is suffering, something humane must be done. As a mentally ill person with depression, I've grappled with that issue most of my adult life, I don't recall the bible stating a person goes to hell, or never will see their loved ones, I wanted to die when I was married, because I am sick, mentally and physically and think Myrna would've been happier without me being a burden, for a 40 year old. I can think of many reasons to quit my existence, tramatic loss of my one true love, the endless depression and the attempts at suicide. Being diabetic, chrohns disease, among other slow dying processes of the body. Myrna had a better chance at life, she did not complain even to the end that she was dying, I was willing to barter God for my life for hers, only to be mislead by blind faith, prayers for miracles left unanswered daily, witnessing the quick demise of once a beautiful person. Today, tomorrow, is no reason to "live" as in the past, a loved one's passing is also a passing of our soul methodically ripped away bit by bit but this in my opinion is heaven and hell.

truly,

William