Miss My Baby..

[lyn]

"At least I can say that I loved her with all my heart, soul, spirit and body, in every way I knew how to and in some I didn't. At least I can say that I didn't hold anything back that was mine to give. They say it is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all. I am not sure about that, but I would say that the place I'm in arguably beats wondering if I missed out on something that might have been."

Bob,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts here. Like you, I have given all the love i can give, this is my only consolation, that he knew and have showned him how much i loved him, and at the same time i have felt how much he loved me. It is too painful that he was taken away from me so sudden. No one is perfect, but by loving someone we also accept the imperfections of that person. We live, we make mistakes, and what is important is we learn. I can say, i have learned a lot in my sufferings. Again, thank you for a very inspiring post.

[lyn]

William,

Does a person love as much again? I ask myself this question too..will i ever love that way again? I have been hurt badly, i am scared to give my all again. I dont want to think of 'what ifs' but i cant help it. I dont want to plan for my future now. I did it once, but God and fate have other plans for me. Better to take it one day at a time...

[DoubleJo]

There ARE people who don't deceive. Who turn to their mate in times of need. Men who cry in the arms of their women and women who grow more proud and in love with their men as time goes on. Not only have I met many couples that have grown closer over time, but I am one of those who experienced this twice.

Perhaps it comes from having sharper eyes from life experience, but avoiding the many "characters" with heavy problems was something I could recognize. Then there is the luck of meeting a man who appreciated the calmness that came after the storm and was perseptive enough to recognize a safe haven. If you try you may succeed. If you give up you automatically fail.

If you quit while the rains still pour, you'll never know what came after.

Sadly there are lots of people with very big emotional problems. They have no idea they have them. Avoidance is the only option.

We can allow ourselves to be bitter when the bitter taste is still in our mouths. But someday our hunger for the fruit of life will return. When it does it will be a sad person indeed who has shut the doors to his heart, because that heart aches even now to be fulfilled. That's why the bitterness. That's why the anger. That is frustration speaking for not receiving your hopes of love and stability.

DoubleJo

[Stallyn]

Bob,

I opened everything to her and no one before that, the consolation is knowing perhaps I gave her happiness and contentment, therefore she got where she needed to be and was finished. Sadly it was only 8 years and 1.5 months of marriage, and like you, its perhaps done. I don't hate her, I feel betrayed, though her promise was impossible to keep. I feel at my age, that being ill myself, and caring for myself and not Myrna anymore, takes alot of self worth away.

Indeed I am the same, always a solitary person myself, can do fine alone for days, sometimes I miss the social attributes but we are in our world of grief and loss, kind of puts us in a different place. Now I may get a house in Mesa, to fix up in live in, gives me an excuse not to need a relationship either since that will consume alot of my time.

I have done alot of things to inflict pain upon myself, probably more than most,

yes if we had 100 years or 150, it wouldn't be so difficult, if we knew the future, would we deny its benefits or pitfalls, I'd assume go back 8 years and add on the other 8 then probably would be content with the 16 years.

[lyn]

DoubleJo,

So true, very few are lucky to have experienced that kind of love. You have experienced that not only once, but twice. I am glad for you. For me, i have only shared a few months with my love, but it felt like spending several decades with him and i will forever be grateful that i was given that opportunity to love and be loved by him. i dont want to be bitter with love and life, though sometimes i feel scared of what lies ahead. but when that day comes that i will love again, i still want to love like i have never been hurt..

an old irish proverb says..

"Work like you don't need the money;

dance like no one is watching;

sing like no one is listening;

love like you've never been hurt;

and live life every day as if it were your last. "

[DoubleJo]

Lyn: you hold the gift of promise and happiness, to want to love like you have never been hurt.

Curt and I knew he would die very early. We lived each day so fully, so filled with each other that our 3 1/2 years was a span of 10.

My best- DoubleJo

[Stallyn]

Lyn,

I have searched high and beyond to find the answer myself, and love and being loved is such a powerful force in itself that eventually it appears to fizz out . I miss love, her love, not the women in the past but only her, that is why anger gets in my path of illusion, I know she loved me, even at the nearing process of death she still thought of me, saying many times to others to make sure I was ok. And the many times she has appeared to me in various forms.

I still have the hope of the future, but I long since put it in God's hand since I can't carry it anymore. Forget the worries of tomorrow as today has its own problems.

[DesertBob]

Lyn,

I think it's possible to love as much, or even more, again ... as long as you are willing to recognize that you may love differently. Each person you may be with, will be somewhat different, and your approach to a relationship will never be the same either, and that needn't be in a bad way ... I mean, you can be wiser, and deeper, more appreciative, etc. Of course you can also be more fearful, bitter, etc. and that is what you want to avoid.

--Bob

William,

Does a person love as much again? I ask myself this question too..will i ever love that way again? I have been hurt badly, i am scared to give my all again. I dont want to think of 'what ifs' but i cant help it. I dont want to plan for my future now. I did it once, but God and fate have other plans for me. Better to take it one day at a time...

[DesertBob]

DoubleJo,

We all have scars that we have had varying degrees of success dealing with. It is not necessarily true in my experience that a person is obviously damaged. Their neuroses can be shut up in a little compartment, well hidden from themselves and everyone else, until something triggers it to come out. In other words not everyone is a "character" all the time, or even often, but when the "character" comes out it is capable of undoing years of good, and of causing deep wounds. Sometimes the "character" will ONLY come out for someone who gets close enough to be in a position to trip over it.

Even when there are signs, they can be subtle, and much easier to see in retrospect than in the throes of romantic attraction.

Sometimes a spouse's hang ups can be acceptable if your own boundaries are well defined and you're perceptive enough to understand what's wrong and strong enough to push back. But you probably aren't going to change the person and you will be in that position more or less permanently. I am not sure a marriage should require either partner to push back. That is some people's style and maybe it works for them but I don't want a relationship that is defined by power struggles and boundary enforcement. One shouldn't have to defend the walls against one's own mate, and one should not have to be their therapist, or parent either.

Spouses have a right, I think, to expect a decent degree of safety. What works against that of course is that you expect much more of a spouse than you do of anyone else, you are counting on them in ways that you don't count on other people, and when they fail you, it is more hurtful and both parties need to have the maturity to talk things through with mutual respect. When you have one party or the other that when hurt just mindlessly lashes out to get back then you have got problems. The devil of it is that you don't necessarily have a clue to that side of a person until after you have already granted them your trust and commitment.

I think you may under-estimate the role of luck in your situation. Or maybe I under-estimate your wisdom and perceptiveness. Likely both. Anyway I am happy for your predominantly good memories. It's what we'd all like to have.

At some point yes, I may well open my heart again, but I'm not sure that choosing not to do so necessarily has to be sad and bitter and lonely, either. I just want to find peace on my own, so that I have that to give back to someone else. Right now I am in no condition to do anything but pull another person down with me. A spouse deserves a partner who lifts them up, and lends them strength and hope. I have lost my hope. It's around here somewhere I suppose but I can't find it. Maybe it slid under the bed or something. Maybe it's in need of a good dry cleaning. I'll figure it out eventually but until then I don't want to inflict myself on someone else, much less deal with their needs.

--Bob

There ARE people who don't deceive. Who turn to their mate in times of need. Men who cry in the arms of their women and women who grow more proud and in love with their men as time goes on. Not only have I met many couples that have grown closer over time, but I am one of those who experienced this twice.

[DoubleJo]

DesertBob:

People very often aren't obviously damaged. But by being with them thru a lot of circumstances you can see how someone behaves. My first husband had a lot of problems, but he acknowledged that. We worked together to change and by doing so we became very close partners in all that we did. It all depends on what kind of problems people have and the kind of person they are.

My second husband always said. "Timing is everything." He was right.

Luck and timing plays a great part in how your life turns out. However, there is more "luck" and better timing out there than many realize, and they pass by them oblivious or too hurt to see them, and so they lose out on what they wanted.

You had 2 very bad experiences that ate up your time. But out of millions of people 2 people are not enough to judge them all. You have every right to be bitter and feel burned. I had anger and great sadness for the things I missed in my life because of my childhood. I have memories of terror from then and bad memories from my first marriage. But if I had let that eat me up and stop me for the rest of my life I would have missed out on a hell of a lot.

I feel similar to you, however, in that I don't want anymore aggravation. I recently stopped seeing someone who wanted to marry me because he had too many problems that kept surfacing over time. I gave it a lot of time (one year) precisely because I wanted to see what would surface. And it sure did. It takes time to get to know someone.

I don't believe you spent much time with Linda before deciding to get married. Was it 6 weeks?

Caution never hurts, and you have a lot of feelings to deal with. Coping with all you had to deal with and making sense of it all will comsume your time. It did for me, it did and does for most of us.

It is amazing what kind of scars people may have hidden underneath from dealing with life. Some use them as guides to learn what to avoid, what they may need or not. Some can toss them off as "that's life." Right now you are raw from what you dealt with. How could you expect to feel any other way?

DoubleJo

[DesertBob]

DoubleJo,

You are right, as usual.

Yes, it was six weeks. We both knew exactly what we wanted / needed / admired and the decision was perfectly sound ... as far as it went. I hadn't had any experience before with someone having a deeply hidden side that even they weren't particularly aware of. My first wife had major problems but I was fully aware of them and just too Stoopid to run! run! while I could. This was a new thing under the sun as far as I was concerned. I made darned sure not to marry another crazy person but I assumed crazy was a binary, yes/no proposition.

What I ended up with is two Lindas ... the one I thought I married and the very different one that came along for the ride off and on. I had someone I deeply loved, and who loved me; and an evil twin that she would periodically channel, that I wanted nothing to do with.

It's probably correct that if we'd taken perhaps a year I would have encountered this, but then, noticing something and believing it and comprehending what it is and figuring out the implications and what to do are all different things. And by then of course I was in love, and I am nothing if not devoted and loyal, so then pulling the plug hurts almost as much as not. Then you have the "hope springs eternal" problem. I hope I'm cured of all that now, but it is a terrible price to pay for an education.

Eventually I figured out how I needed to deal with the issue, and because Linda really did love me, and really would do anything for me, I think the odds of success were fairly decent as such things go. But by then she was dying, and unable to put forth that kind of effort. Heck, sometimes she couldn't remember my name.

Yeah, your #2 was right, timing IS everything.

Linda did accomplish many very positive things and left many impressed and happy people in her wake. Only I and a half dozen close relatives knew about the other thing. We are the ones that have to deal with the resulting ambivalence, but I don't discuss it anyplace other than this anonymized setting because I don't want it to be general public knowledge. Her public life stands as an inspiration to a lot of people with her illness, for example, and her careers had worldwide impact as well, and I'm not going to tarnish it. I think it's right that by and large when someone dies we remember the good and forget the bad. That's what I want everyone who knew her to do, but I have to work out the ambivalence *I* feel. And I know that some others who visit here have some ambivalence of their own to work out, so it probably helps others to air mine in this space. At least I hope it does.

--Bob

[DoubleJo]

DesertBob; As you know people needs answers, simple ones to make life orderly and understandable. This kind of 2 way feeling about someone is very confusing. I had the same thing. Then I learned ( and it finally sunk in, again 2 different things ) that its' okay to feel both ways about someone because that's how they were, how the situation was. We don't have to try to pigeonhole ourselves into a neat clean package. It's okay to be mad at the crap stuff and pleased with the good. I was lucky? in that my childhood prepared me for all types of people.

You can rack your brain until it falls out trying to place everything somewhere. Its' too late. It already was placed. It was placed by the actions of the people who did it. The confusion lies in trying to put it elsewhere. The concept of multiple feelings about someone feels unacceptable for the reasons stated above. We shouldn't feel guilt over feeling poorly about things others did just because they are deceased. Afterall, it was we who tried to help them .

Lyn- How are feeling today?

DoubleJo

[kayc]

Lyn,

It is very hard to attend a wedding of someone else's hopes and dreams beginning when ours ended, I remember going through that too, but I tried to focus on them and wish them happiness, knowing it could be as fleeting as mine and George's was, and hoping it wouldn't be.

What you did, forgiving the man that murdered your father, that took a lot. You were wise to do so because to harbor bitterness does not hurt the person it's meant towards, it harms us the most. But it's not something that everyone finds within them to do and I have to admire you greatly for that.

Wow in reading these posts, I realize that most of you have gone through so much too. It's funny, most people think of their deceased spouse as perfect and remember and speak of them that way and it leaves me feeling like I'm odd man out, a little different, but I am trying to remember my husband the way he actually was and come to terms with it, it's taken a while but I think I've finally accepted him as is. It's always good to know we're not alone! To those who had perfect spouses, I'm glad for you, you can have wonderful memories to keep you company, to the rest of us, we were enriched by them all the same and it's good to know we can remember the good and forgive the rest. God bless all of you,

KayC

[lyn]

Hello DoubleJo,

I feel better today..savoring the good feelings while it last. You are so sweet to ask. My baby and I knew that his years are limited too because of his illness, but i never gave up. I have hopes in the advancement of science and medicine. We were only asking for a few years to be together, but it was not granted. Oh, i should stop now, i am starting to feel sad again..starting to feel the unfairness of everything again. If given the chance, i will still trade my future years in exchange of spending one day with him. How i love him so much...

Kayc,

My father was killed when i was 14, it was very traumatic for me to look at his pictures and see how he died. I couldnt imagine a human being could do such a cruel act. It was hard forgiving the man who murdered him. It took many months for me too, my relationship with God grew, and i leave all the anger and bitterness to Him. And one day, i found myself not feeling the hatred and anger anymore, it was the first time i found peace, and i felt free too. It was a good feeling, and by letting go of the anger, i was able to go on too, My family was struggling at that time, my mother tried so hard to raise us well and give us good education. I know my father is happy and at peace now from above. We have fulfilled his dreams for us, to have a degree. Though sometimes, i miss him, and wish he were with me especially during these times...

[Stallyn]

I guess in the end of the day we have to get up and start over again, I don't desire to find another woman, Myrna was perfect for me, flaws and good alike, I would give everything I own to get her back, I thought too when she was sick it was going to pass and going on together stronger, but it didn't happen, even at the final stages I ignored the reality she was not coming back, such confusion since at the airport I told her I be there in a month and she shined a smile at me, so I thought she knew she was ok. Gosh, damn it still hurts....

Lyn, you may not know it but you are an example of unconditional love towards others, it is a true fruit of the Holy spirit.

love,

William

[lyn]

Oh William, you are making me emotional here. you have helped me a lot too in this difficult journey. at the end of the day, i hope i have touched one soul, have put a smile on someone's face..this would be enough for me...i try not to focus on my problems anymore...

[Stallyn]

lyn, I hope I did, I feel a weight on my heart too, the sorrow and empathy we share with each other, you do make me smile and have a glimmer of hope in a dark place, you taught me something about ourselves, we can rise up against the odds.

hugs,

William

[lyn]

My dear Friends,

Please say a prayer for my love. It is his 5 months today. Am sitting here writing, trying to remember our happy memories, yet i couldnt stop the hurting, and the tears. It feels like so many years had passed...i miss him badly.

Dear God, please take good care of my baby. please send him my love, my hugs and kisses. please grant him peace and joy in your kingdom..

~

i love you so much baby..we will be together again someday.

[kayc]

Lyn,

You have been through so much, it's hard to watch your suffering. Please know that your baby IS alright, it's those of us left behind that are hurting. You'll get through this Hon, one day at a time.

[Stallyn]

Lyn,

I am with you, Its a hard time right now and you are ok, your baby is watching you right now, bless your heart