Still Sad After All These Months…..

[WaltC]

One special little book that has helped me "survive" these past 43+ months is Martha Hickman's Healing After Loss.

It consists of a daily thought provoking reading for each day of the year.

Depending on the reader, some of Martha's subjects are profound, some seemingly simple truths and others seem to be absurd (to me)

The November 22nd reading concludes by saying:"We are the best judges of when to stay in our grief and when to move on to something else. The important thing is to inwardly accept responsibility for the choices we make. And to recognize the difference between grieving over the loss of a loved one and continuing to cherish that person."

Friends and readers I need your help and thoughts. Lately - I feel like I am in a "permanent" trance - not caring about any aspects of life - not giving a darn about the future - mired in the past. Is this just SAD - Seasonally Affected Distress or something else?

I can't recognize the difference between grieving and continuing to cherish my partner. I have no trouble with the second part - continuing to cherish. But I am getting tired of the grieving aspect - it has me quite confused.

Any comments you can make to help dispel this confusion will be appreciated.

[fred]

Give me a few minutes to think about this Walt, I´ll be back in a bit.

[fred]

I am not sure if I am the best one to attempt to answer this Walt, you are so much farther along than I (22 months for me), but if you wish I`ll give it a shot.

Recognizing the difference between ¨grieving the loss¨ and ¨cherishing the person¨ seems to be the key to the puzzle. While we are grieving the loss, we keep looking back to all we had that is no longer here. All that we miss, all we are doing without, it is a focus on the past that we can`t get back too. If we can`t turn around and look in front of us, to the future, we continue to be bound by a past which isn`t real anymore. Right now I (and perhaps you as well) cherish the person and grieve the loss. We need a full acceptance of the way things are now and an interest in what is to come. We have to learn to look forward to tomorrow with the knowledge that we will never have to give up all that our love meant to us. To cherish the person into the future is to carry all of the gifts they have presented us with into the new world we will create. It is a tremendously difficult move to make, we are so afraid of losing all or part of what they meant to us. But it is not going to happen, they won`t let us move on without them. We have become different people than we were before we knew them. We are better people and maybe we are afraid of changing again, but we aren`t going to turn back to where we were. We are going to improve and become even stronger and more loving because of what they have given us. The hard part is turning, I think it is one of the biggest variables in our journeys. I don`t know if all of us will be able to turn towards the future; I hope so. I can`t think of a better memorial to the life we shared than to carry on as a much better person because of the time we spent together.

I don`t know if this helps any, or makes it harder to understand. It is just the way I interpret what the author is saying. Good luck Walt!

[kayc]

Walt,

My heart goes out to you, you spent your whole life with your little Jeannie and it's easy to see how much you cherish her...but the longer you're with someone I would think it'd be all the harder to have to forge a new identity and life apart from them. Of course that all varies and depends on how independent each was "before" and the individual dynamics of the relationship and personalities involved. I know that some people get stuck in the grieving process, not allowing themselves any joy in life, because they feel to do so would be to render the other person forgotten or they get confused with acceptance of what's happened (as something you have to deal with and can't change) with agreeance with what took place (something none of us agree to). We have to recognize that it has taken place, we can't change it, we're still here and have to live and give ourselves permission to enjoy life wherever we can...and in no way does that invalidate our feelings of love or even mourning for that person. And you are right, Martha Hickman has written a book that has had a profound affect on many of us! Bless your heart, dear Walt, you have made gains, it's probably just hard for you to see it, being in it.

Your friend,

KayC

[LarrysGirl]

Walt, It makes me sad to read your words, as I am in the same place as you. I fiercely hold onto my grief while cherishing his memory. I fear if I don't remember him who will, so for me, I know that plays a part in me staying in the grief. I don't know how to integrate my grief into any kind of life yet. Maybe one day I will learn. My wish for you is some happiness along this journey. Deborah

[leeann]

Can I just say something here and I hope you all will understand... but I just feel the need to say this/ ask this:

Do you all mind when I post to your threads because I haven't lost my spouse?

I only (well there is a minimization for ya.. "only".. bet that's wrong to say that.. I dunno know...) have lost my parents and one of my inlaws as well as friends and other close extended family members. Do you feel I am intruding here when I post to any of you? Because sometimes I say to myself.. "Sit on your hands. Don't post." How would I know? How can I know what it is they are going through. Yeah I almost lost my spouse.. but I think in this case "almost" doesn't count or come anywhere near your painful realities.

So do let me know if you all think that I shouldn't post here. I surely do not want to add to your burdens by responding to you. And if it does bother you.. please let me know. Feel free to PM if you are more comfortable doing it that way.

I must say reading on this forum has helped me so much. I have learned alot from all of you. My appreciation for the blessing of my spouse has definitely grown and my perspective on marriage itself has also been altered because of you all and I'm very grateful. So, thanks.

In the meantime....

Walt I must thank you for posting this.

You are making me think and making me work a bit.. which is good. (double edged sword though as I'm sure you can imagine)

'Staying in the grief or moving on'.. I have a hard time thinking about this as that black and white. I think.. grief is more gray.

I don't think that either one of those options of staying in grief or moving on, have to be mutually exclusive. I think we move on while we grieve as we really don't have another choice do we?

I like what Fred says about looking back and looking forward. Perhaps it is a balance that we should shoot for? Like if I did nothing BUT look back... yeah I'd say I was "stuck" in grief. But I go through phases it seems when I'm looking back alot and looking forward a bit less. And then that intensity dips back a bit and I find I am looking forward more than looking back.

And it just seems to go back and forth... kinda like a tide in phases over various time lengths.

Maybe the forward movement is just going through those phases themselves?

But I think it might be wise if we all kept in mind with the holidays approaching.. Walt.. it is HARD. And maybe you may not be suffering from SAD so much as just with all of the holiday bombardment we are getting hit with, we would kind of naturally look back a bit and miss them... so much.

And this is painful.. so maybe your "trance" is really just a defense mechanism of sorts to block some of the pain. We all need to do that sometimes or I think it would just eat us up completely. Maybe we naturally protect ourselves a bit by numbing up some. Just plodding through the motions without thinking too much yet at the same time... lugging around this tremendous weight. But still moving ourselves through each day.

I will always Cherish my lost loved ones. I was blessed enough to cherish them loads while they were still here. But with them gone now... I can't deny that looking back is something I will always do to some extent. How can I not? Asking me not to look back is like asking me not to ever blink.

I just think the key may be a balance of sorts that, again, will be uniquely our own. My balance won't look like yours nor will it look like my sibling's.

Each will be different.

I think Kayc is right too when she says that the relationship dynamics themselves have something to do with .. the pace we go through this journey. I am not saying that someone who wasn't married as long or in relationship with as long has less grief. NOT at all. Hard to qualify grief that way. There is no healthy products born by that kind of comparisons I think.

It's just that the job of rebuilding a new life may simply be something generated from a longer "to do" list when one has lost someone they have known for a long time or forever.

And I agree with Fred.. we simply are not the same people. And we are struggling to adapt to this tremendous life change. And it isn't easy in any sense.

We will change.. we have no other choice. We will build new lives from the ashes... and exactly how and when we do is something very unique and something that I think forces us to go for that balance of the looking back and the looking forward.

But ... I could be wrong. lol Who knows? I'm just plowing through this minefield alongside the rest of you.

Just my thoughts on this Walt and thanks again for making me think and do some work.

(((((Hugs)))))

leeann

[kayc]

Leeann,

I appreciate your posts and don't feel you're intruding at all, your perspective is very valued. I think what you said about balance is key. And yes it is more grey than black and white. And we do integrate the moving in WHILE grieving, it's all a process. And moving on does NOT mean "forgetting" or deserting our loved one. We will NEVER forget them! My kids and I will always cherish George's memory and will talk about him and remember him the rest of our lives...and we smile as we remember him. Sometimes the wistfulness gets to me and I cry...I think my son does sometimes too. That's to be expected no matter how much time goes by and in no way does it mean I shouldn't continue with life. My son still needs to go to school and build a future. I still need to work and take care of the place and have friends. Life continues whether we wish it to or not. It's do we accept what's happened or fight against it? Fighting seems only to harm ourselves not help us. Acceptance does not equate with we agree with it or like it. It just means we say, this happened, now I have to deal with it. And you're right, it's not the length of time that determines how deep our relationship was, but if someone was together 40 years instead of two, they may have an interdependency that adds to what they have to deal with on top of the grief. Such as a woman who has never driven a car, never written a check, etc. and she loses the husband who has done those things all her life, it's going to add to what she has to deal with over that of someone who has always taken care of themselves and used to doing those things already. Most of us in marriage depended on the other to some extent, but some of us have a background of having done those things at some point in our lives, before, and can fall back into that...those who never have, have one more thing to adjust to, that's all. I have a friend whose husband has Alzheimer's and she is now going through the having to learn to pay the bills, etc. and she is in her 70s...I am proud of her though, she is doing it! She is having to deal with things she never had to before, and she is up to the task, whether she ever wanted to be or not.

Leeann, please feel free to continue posting here, you know what grief is even if it isn't a spouse, and you've never presumed to understand all of that, but rather you've been an added blessing here.

[KathyG]

For me, the grief will never stop as long as I'm alive. But at the same time, I see myself continuing to evolve and adapt as time goes on. Already I'm a different person than I was; a better person, thanks to my husband's influence.

What scares me, though, is: after all this time, I still feel like half a person and wonder if or when I'll ever have a full life again. In spite of all the progresss, the steps forward I've taken and accepting that I have to go on and rebuild my life, there's still a big empty place inside me. I don't know how to fill it or what to fill it with. But I hope that somehow at some time, I'll find whatever it takes to make me feel less like a shadow.

[JeanneC]

If you ask me now, I would say that the grief will never stop. But, I think it will. I probably will be sad every birthday, anniversary and holiday thinking about him. What bothers me is that it is like Alex and I were just another chapter in a book and I moved on to another and also like he never existed. I just don't want that to happen. When you get divorced, and forgive me because I don't know, just assuming, your not together, but the physical being is still around. I had my husband creamated. I did it for a reason, but it also bothers me that its like puff he's gone. Nothing to show that he ever existed except his material possessions. How can someone you loved, touched, kissed and held for years, just not be there anymore. That's what I ask myself every day.

Love and God Bless,

Jeanne

[kayc]

Jeanne,

But they are around, they are inside of us, their influence is upon us, the memories are forever etched in our hearts, and that's more than just some ashes, that is something real and tangible that we take with us wherever we go. My George impacted me more than anyone has and will never cease to exist.

[MartyT]

Dear Ones,

Maybe this passage from a book I just finished reading will help:

Spiritual connections, sometimes called “continuing bonds,” “loving connections,” or “continuing relationships,” provide a way for us to include a loved one who has died in our life through the creation of symbols, images, and signs that are both powerful and essential for their continuing survival. It is clear that the death of a loved one does not end a relationship. Whether or not this relationship is transformed to a spiritual one, our loved ones are not forgotten just because they are no longer in their physical bodies. We talk about them, miss them, and most of us even find ourselves talking to them. However, creating a spiritual connection with them involves taking the relationship on a new path, just as if they had reached a new developmental stage in life and we’d need to find a new way to connect with them. A spiritual or loving connection is a different kind of relationship, but one that at times is even stronger than the one we had with them when they were on Earth. Our spiritual connection doesn’t die with our loved ones. How could it? Our energy is derived from God or, as some say, from Spirit, and returns to God. Just because we’d no longer have a physical body, how could it be that we wouldn’t continue to be a loved one? How could these connections not be Spirit-given?

To continue an explanation of our loved one’s transformation, think of it this way. Take an ice cube out of your freezer and put it on the sidewalk. After a time, you will see a little puddle of water and the ice cube is no longer there. Again, more time passes and what happens to the puddle? Can you see it any longer? Does it make sense to you to say that it has disappeared and it no longer exists? Most of us would say that the water was in solid form when it was ice, in liquid form when it was the puddle, and in gas form when it evaporated from the sidewalk. It may be a bit of a stretch to think of human life in this way, but it may help to know that the water from the ice cube is still as real as your loved one is. It just is in another form.

For healthy after-death connections, the relationship with our loved one must be reorganized and the loss assimilated in a way so that there is an openness for the communications to be heard, felt, and sometimes even seen. When this is accomplished, we will find hopefulness and be able to make a commitment to have our loved one be a part of our present and future without losing the past. Whatever connection is made – whether through a sign, symbol, thought, dream, or doing an act in the loved one’s name – it is this loving connection that seems to help us look toward the future and be willing to enter into life again. [pp. 23-24]

[source: Surviving and Thriving: Grief Relief & Continuing Relationships, © 2008 by Jane Bissler, Deneene Florino & Sara Ruble, Spirituality Workshops]

[WendyJ]

I have to ask this question, why after you lost someone would you not continue to cherish them for the rest of your life? I will continue to cherish the times Steve and I had together as I know Derek will with Karen till the day we die. Does that mean Derek and I do not love each other deeply? Absolutely not ! Does that mean we will not continue to feel some grief towards them even though we are now together? No it doesn't ! I do not like that line at all that says " When to stay in our grief and when to move on to something else"....we will always have the grief...it is just a matter of when we can put it aside and not let it continue to overcome us and this everyone does in their own time. We can not change the past, we can not bring them back and at some point we all have to live again, isn't that what we would want for our loved ones had we been the ones to die first? Would we not want them to continue to cherish us and to think of us but want them to be happy again? I know for sure that my husband is looking down on me and is very happy that I have found true love again and with such a wonderful man and that is what I would have wanted for him too had the roles been reversed. I feel that he can now do what he was chosen to do up in heaven without worrying about me, and that makes me very happy.

Love Always,

Wendy

[JeanneC]

Marty:

The passage that you sent, really does say a lot. And it helped me to understand and give me hope.

Thank you so much.

Love and God Bless,

Jeanne

[leeann]

Yes it does say loads about that continuing relationship.

I once heard John Edwards explain it like the loved one was a glass of water. Leave it on the counter and eventually it will evaporate into the air... and then they will be all around us. Just the form of them changes... not the love. That always remains.

I feel them and I have had signs of them come to me. One dear loved one came to me in a visit upon my waking.

No.. they are not gone. I do not belive that. Nope.. not at all. Their form may have changed and maybe I cannot see them any longer but they do indeed live on the next plane. My work here isn't finished apparently... but one day when it is... I have no doubt I will see them once again.

Til then....they still reside within and without me. Because.. they love me and I love them.... still... and always.

BTW Thanks Kayc. XO

leeann

[kath]

"We are the best judges of when to stay in our grief and when to move on to something else. The important thing is to inwardly accept responsibility for the choices we make. And to recognize the difference between grieving over the loss of a loved one and continuing to cherish that person."

Walt,

Maybe there comes a time when the two are different, but to me they are one in the same. If we didn't cherish the person, we wouldn't grieve the loss. I think both aspects become part of who we are. As Fred stated, we carry the love from our spouses into the future. I think we will also always carry the pain of losing that spouse. It gives us the compassion and understanding to reach out to others going through the same thing. Without the compassion, we wouldn't so acutely be reminded of the pain of losing that most important person in our lives. Grief gets confusing, tiring, awkward and numbing. It is hard work. Nothing compares to it and I went through a lot before losing Bob. I don't see how we have a choice to stay in our grief. I think just by reaching out, we are accepting responsibility for our choices. Maybe making the decision comes in choosing not to be consumed by the loss. We almost have to make a conscious choice to find hope and happiness in our lives. That doesn't mean we will never again be sad or lonely, because it seems inevitable (especially around the holidays and anniversaries.) But it does mean we have a willingness to be with others and go through the motions of this life. Kath

[kayc]

I agree with everything that was said, what Marty shared was a great way of expressing it, and what Wendy said is true. I do think that grief is forever but not in the same form as in the beginning...in the beginning it is shocking, overwhelming, immense and painful...but it evolves as it goes along...I think the "grief" that was referred to if more like that intense grief, but what it evolves into is something more manageable, it may have it's grief bursts or moments when it's intense and painful, but for the most part, as it goes along it may become something of an emptiness or weight inside of you, but later on you may be able to incorporate it into something a little more positive, like a calm reassurance that the person is still there with you, only inside of you now, maybe looking after you, maybe a comfort, that one who knows you and is rooting for you. And yes, like Steve, my George would have been happy for me had I found someone new that would make me happy, he always put my best interests at heart, not at all selfish. As it turned out for me, I know George would love to thrash John and John had better be glad George is dead or his days would be numbered! It is in knowing that George is with me, inside of me, that gives me strength. So is he dead, or just changed? He is dead physically to this world, but he still exists and he is changed...and someday I will be with him again. For those of us who believe fundamentally in the Bible, I believe he will have a new body and I will get to hug him again...it matters not to me that it will be a changed form, I trust God to work all that out, the things I don't understand, but I do know I will be with him again and that is the thing that matters to me most. Even now, with my life a shambles and so much stress and details assailing me, I draw comfort from both God and George, whom I believe to be looking after me and helping me through this. George is the most forgiving spirit I've ever known, he would not have faulted me for my mistakes, but rather jumped to my defense against those who would harm me. Can this person be dead? Not completely! But rather CHANGED! For those who have no such beliefs, I don't know how they handle it, but I would think it'd be hard to think someone just dies and then they are no more...I feel evidence is to the contrary...there are too many "unexplained" things that happen. Like Karen finding...was it a piece of jewelry? from her husband...someone else getting help locating their keys, the hummingbirds, the white birds, my rainbows, etc. Some may say those are coincidences...well all of that is in the eyes of the beholder...and those who have faith.

[Rosemary T]

Walt,

I am only 10 months in but I think there is a big difference between grief, cherishing the departed, and missing the departed. At least to me there is.

I cherish many people and the memories I have of them. These people may be dead or alive but apart from me. I enjoy thinking about the time I spent with them and these memories bring me joy and happiness. My spouse is someone I will always cherish.

I miss many people. Some of them are departed by death and some are simply not in my life anymore for a variety of reasons. I miss them, but feel as though I can make a very productive life without them there and can be happy. My grandmother was a wonderful woman that I miss. I also cherish her memory but I no longer grieve for her.

To me, grief is different. This may not be true for others on this site but for me grief is sorrow, loneliness, a terrible void. Grief is hurting and feeling as though my life will never be the same. For me grief is physically and mentally painful. My grief makes me feel as though I have no future; nothing matters, I am lost. I have grieved for people before (but NEVER like this)and I have moved on. I still grieve for Lou and I am not sure I will ever fully move on the way I have from the grief I have suffered in the past. This grief is different from anything I have ever known. This pain is worse than any I have ever known. I am in a black hole of depression most of the time and VERY FEW people (even thoughs who see me daily) have any idea of this depression. I hide things very well so no one really knows. In fact the only people that I do think have a CLUE are people like you Walt.

Thank you for letting me know that this is normal. If you are still feeling this almost 4 years in then I guess I am not that different after all. It "stinks" to be part of this group, I have to tell you but it is also comforting to know that I am not the only one going through this.

Rosemary