A Journey With Reminders

[MartyT]

Beautiful memories so vividly described, dear Mary ~ I felt like I was there with you ♥

[kayc]

Oh Mary, deer DO know where hunting is not allowed, that's why I don't allow it on my property! I love the places they frequent and love to watch them and the elk feed. They are so beautiful! I'm not opposed to hunting, but private property seems somehow unsportsman-like. We used to have a little pioneer homestead down the ways from us, with square wooden nails and all...someone tore it down since the 36 years ago that I moved here, I think that quite a shame, but it was in sorry shambles. Those places just seem gone. The one thing Arlie hasn't done is gotten sprayed by a skunk, if one comes near, he will be, because he doesn't have the brains to run and hide from it, no, he'd have to go up and investigate! Ahh well, I love my inquisitive pup.

[mfh]

Thanks, Marty. I do that drive every March at least...not often but it is filled with happy memories as you could see...but of course, bittersweet now. Peace, Mary

Yes, Kay...we loved the deer. Buffy did get sprayed twice but he asked for it. Tomato juice does NOT work..trust me. He slept in the mudroom for a few nights. I am not opposed to hunting if done properly. Lots of folks do not do it fairly. Up here when a woman is pregnant, a hunting license is purchased for the baby....it is ritual here...big time.

Fae, here are some old pics from my end. Mary (they may open way too large...someday I will learn resizing. Mary

Our country home before we renovated, added a garage (with a hot tub on it), mudroom, office and more

The motorcycle shed Bill and I and his gentle loving dad (the apple did not fall from from the tree) built when he visited us at age 88.

Love Hill with a good friend who is a psychic (older woman), another friend and our first dog, Buffy (part Golden...a stray tossed away at the dump, we had him for 14 years. No clue who took that pic.

[kayc]

OMG, they'd never allow that here (lic. for baby)!

[mfh]

Of course, the adult uses the license until the child is old enough to hunt....about age 5 or 6.

[kayc]

That amazes me, they don't allow that here. In fact, a "child" has to take a hunter's safety course before they can be eligible to hunt here...there's no license beforehand!

[mfh]

I think the kids here take that also. I also KNOW that adults take the kids out and teach them at many ages....

[Wifflesnook]

Mary what glorious photos. Happy happy days and no one can take them away from you. Jan

[mfh]

Yes, Jan, those were happy days. I love that photo.

Thanks,

Mary

[kayc]

I couldn't find the answer on line so I texted my son (since he went thru Hunter Safety) and he said here in Oregon you have to be age 16 before you can get a license and tag. When I look at the website, it's ambiguous, I'm not sure why they aren't more forthcoming with the answers!

[feralfae]

I think one must complete hunter education and be 12, but it could be 14 here in Montana.

Mary, thank you for the wonderful photos of your life.

*<twinkles>*

fae

[mfh]

It is 10 years old here but believe me....they get a permit to shoot a deer when in the womb and kids younger than 10 are hunting....it is ritual. The women plan events for themselves but more and more women are now hunting so that part of it is dying. The restaurants open at 3am during rifle season for breakfast. I hate seeing the dead deer tied to the trucks. One year a protest on hunting took place around the capital in Madison. The drivers of the cars wore deer masks (plastic heads) and tied to the cars were hunters in orange. We posted our land and still had to drive hunters out on occasion. We all, including our dogs, wore orange if we went to the woods during rifle season. Bow and Arrow season was not as bad.

[kayc]

Bow and arrow is WORSE unless they are excellent marksmen! There are many more wounded animals left from arrows than shots. It is much harder to hit your target. I was born on a deer hunting trip and raised by hunters, my kids' dad was a hunter and of course, he raised my son to be a hunter, so I've no problem with it. I understand the culture. The problem I have is in those who mix drink/party with hunting, the two do NOT mix! In my town, most able bodied men are hunters and many of the women as well. I participated in years and years of "cutting up" parties, where couples get together and butcher the meat until they're done. We were always very particular about our meat, opting to add pork roast instead of suet, and being fastidious to remove tendons, cut against the grain, package correctly, etc. Hunters are very particular about who they let into their hunting party, they don't want someone young and green, and if a young person, they train them right. They also don't want people who don't do their fair share or do things correctly. The men my son grew up in a hunting party with were good men that taught him a lot and he has great memories. He hasn't been able to hunt much since he was grown, he's either been in the service, working, or in school. He says his dad is getting too old to do more than day trips now, I feel bad about that...their nine day trips in the wilderness for elk hunting (a day in, setting up camp, hunting, then a day to come out) were very special times for them. They had solar showers, stashed their stuff up in trees (using pulleys), and were careful not to damage the grounds or surroundings. They always called it "Camp Hilton" because they were well prepared and stocked! And they ate good. Each man was responsible for two meals. I remember my son asking me to teach him two simple meals so he could do his part, he was just a teenager. These men would have never hunted on private property...they hunted on elk's terrain so the elk had the advantage, but they would start in August by getting to know the land and where the elk trekked. There was a lot to it and I was proud of both my son and (now ex) husband, they were excellent marksmen, my son even got an award for it in the service. He never had to shoot at a person though, so I'm glad it was used just for game. We never wasted the meat, we ate the heart, liver, etc. My ex even took his hand at tanning hides for a time. The antlers or racks were used to hang up coats, etc or for knife handles. We never stuffed a head or anything like that, although some of the more wealthy did. (Taxidermists are expensive!) My kids grew up on venison, 7% fat, or elk meat, 4% fat, it was much healthier than beef. I learned to fix it all kinds of ways, and also duck (not my favorite), grouse, quail. Game has been a mainstay of our diet for centuries, and much healthier as it's free-roam and lean.

I'm still thinking in Oregon it was closer to age 12, I'm wondering if my son misunderstood my text, it seems like he started much younger than 16.

I certainly understand people's aversion to hunting though, it really has a lot to do with your culture as to how you feel about it. The first time I saw a "Bambi" in the back of my dad's rig, with his tongue askew, I cried. But you learn it's meat and part of the cycle of things. Sometimes I think city folks don't realize an animal gave their life so they could eat. It teaches you to appreciate.

[feralfae]

Wow, Kay!

Good post! Yes, bow hunting can be worse, because as you said, wounded animals run away, and are not tracked and finished and eaten. We found a shot elk just behind the house here a few years ago, one arrow in its side, left to die and also to go to waste.

I am a hunter of elk and deer. Doug hunted moose and caribou. We, too, eat and ate our animals, and I will only eat organic beef these days, which is not too difficult to find in Montana. But I have moose and caribou and elk in the big freezer, and every time I have a moose steak, it is a celebration of Doug's hunting skills and persistence, since he would trek/kayak in to remote Arctic Circle regions to hunt, so it was quite a marvelous outing as well as a hunt. The bears were often waiting close by for whatever we left after the field dressing and filling the game bags.

I am going to shrink-wrap some moose steaks in triple wrap, so I can save a few for a few years and have them when our Godchildren are all here. Although they all hunt as well, and one is the state champion archer. But he is in college now, and I imagine he will be headed away to do engineering in some far-away place when he finishes his degree. I wish they would all stay within 100 miles or so.

Here in Montana, and in Wyoming, our big fears during hunting season are all the poorly-trained hunters who have non-resident tags, and will sometimes kill the wrong animal. In Wyoming, out of Buffalo, there are actual billboards showing hunters the difference between an elk (long season) and a moose (short or no season) and a buffalo (no season) because those fellows just want to shoot something big. And they drink in their hunting camps, which is just crazy.

Mary, I totally understand posting your property. Ours is also posted. Even at that, a neighbor came on to our land to kill an elk, and Doug went out wrapped in blaze orange to shoo him away, but had also strapped on his .44 and had called Fish and Game. The man was also drinking. As with any human activity, there will be great, good, and not so good humans involved. This chap is a sort of putz who moved here from Seattle, and was so excited to see elk that he was going to get one even though, we found out when F&G arrived, he had no permit and no idea of the regulations. A lot of people come to Wyoming and Montana thinking they are free to shoot anywhere, at anything. Wrong.

Our entire big family ranch in Wyoming is permanently posted, and so we protect an elk herd, which calves in our hay pastures, local big horn sheep, and moose and mountain lions. Our sheep herd is used to take new genetic material to other herds, since the corridors between herds have been pretty well replaced with human development. The lions tolerate us. When we hunt, we go into the normal hunting areas, which is not the ranch. Doug loved to go to the ranch and watch the elk calving and the eagles circling on the rising air currents.

Well, that was a nice respite from everything else, to spend time remembering hunts, hauling out game bags, and packaging up the meat. I don't know if I will ever get to go hunting again, but I certainly hope so.

*<twinkles>*

fae

[kayc]

Fae,

I hear and agree with everything you're saying and know it to be true. It is the same here, although we don't have moose and caribou. I would love it if ALL hunters had to take a course, not just hunter's safety for youngsters, but everyone! And for crying out loud, they should all know the beast they have a tag for! I am all for stiffer laws...I would love it if they could confiscate their rig and weapons and ban them from hunting for drinking even one drink while on a hunting trip...the two just do NOT mix! It's idiots like that that shoot innocent bystanders and harm animals. I can't stand to see an animal suffer. I think there should be a marksmanship test before someone can get a license and tag as well. Who wants a bunch of wannabes out there wounding animals?! That sickens me! I know, animals actually die a much harsher death by natural causes than most due by hunters, but that's by decent hunters, not those who wound animals and don't even track them down and finish them off.

Have you tired canning your game? It's wonderful! It takes 90 minutes to process, but it's out of this world, so tender and makes wonderful meat and sauce for pasta or rice, or for sandwiches.

[feralfae]

He he he.

When Doug was eating game with me, and with all our dinner parties, a whole moose barely lasted us through the year until next season. Of course, we also gave wrapped packages to a few people we knew, including to several elderly couples who no longer hunted. Everyone so appreciated getting our game packages, because we were known for carefully cleaned and prepared meat packages.

So, we did not have much to can. And we have a couple of huge freezers. But I know people who can their game. I helped to can bear meat once. Great for cassoulet. I have a couple of huge moose roasts still in the freezer up in Alaska, and maybe I will cook and can those. Okay, time to stop. Crying just thinking about Doug and hunting trips and our times together. Good tears.

*<twinkles>*

fae

[mfh]

Home now and here is my hunting input. Kay, I totally agree with you...fae also. When I said the bow hunters were easier to deal with, I meant we never really dealt with them...except a couple of times when we were in the woods and ran into one who apologized for being on our land (bow in hand) but he was looking for a doe he hit but which ran and he did not want it to die a treacherous death. We all looked and looked but could not find her. The culture is the issue as far as I am concerned. We live in a state that practically invented US beer...it is a drinking state. The kids are frequently drinking at age 9 and up at gatherings and their parents know it and introduce them to alcohol. We also have Chicago hunters who come up knowing nothing about game, wilderness, rules, etc. We found a scent bucket in our meadow one day which means hunters put it in the middle of a field, surrounded the field and shot when bucks approached the doe scent in a bucket. To me that is not fair hunting...20 hunters with high power rifles. Our neighbor had a bullet go through their radiator parked next to their kitchen window. Every year there are careless accidents, people who disobey the rules and a LOT of drinking. I also have friends who hunt and give the meat to the food pantries....it is all so dependent on personalities and culture. I do know the deer starve because we have killed off their predators...big conversation about wolves here in WI. I am very close to a vegetarian...I eat very little meat and it is 98% of the time poultry or fish. Once in a while I crave a burger. Bill LOVED steak and was a major meat eater...I was a total vegetarian when we married so I moved a bit away from that when it was easier to cook and it was fine but now I am moving back to where I was and being a fish and a bit of poultry eater most of the time but do eat a burger or chili from time to time. I have a HARD time seeing an animal die or even knowing it. But I know it is nature etc. I just have a hard time with it...especially when humans makes their death so treacherous as in the slaughter houses which are slowly, very slowly changing.

So that is my story. It is amazing the subjects we all get into here. A nice break and distraction sometimes.

Kay, I am glad you are feeling better and I agree...it takes time to get strength back and you are vulnerable during that time. So take it easy.

I just got home from Costco, drove in the snow...sort of snow globe snow...no big deal but lots of flooding around here and that gets a bit scary. Spring Green lost 43 houses in 2008 and lots more with flood damage including ours (not the one we are in now). It was a mess...Bill could not help at all and I was up all night sweeping water into the drain (uneven basement floor we learned) until the water became 4 feet deep. Lost furnace, W/D, etc. and lots of stuff that I could not move fast enough. People here now get fearful of this season. If it is a rainy spring we are in trouble in spite of the rather stupid prevention things they did... This house is ok as far as I know. but I plan to move things up to shelves just in case. I am sorting down in the basement....Bill's tools are all up high...have not touched them...a complete woodworking shop down there and lots of boxes I am just now unpacking.

Peace to all

Mary

[Wifflesnook]

Wow it's like reading postings from the wild frontier. Just joking! So interesting. Jan

[kayc]

Oh my goodness Mary, I wish I were there to help you! I hope it doesn't come to that (flooding)! I'm high up on a mountain so don't have to worry about that but the roads sometimes get covered, although not horribly deep.

Hunters should not be in residential areas. And anyone who lets their kids drink, grrr!!! My dad did but he should NOT have! Dumb, bad idea! We raised our kids as teetotalers because my dad was alcoholic and my husband's mom was alcoholic, but I'm not opposed to drinking, just excess. I drink moderately now that the kids are raised and my son has elected to never have a sip and find out and my daughter only does on occasion and doesn't have a problem, so I'm glad they're raised and turned out okay. I just didn't want any more alcoholism in the family!

Fae, how much meat do you get off a moose? They must be huge to last all year! I've had bear, it's good too. So is buffalo.

[mfh]

I guess it depends on how a residential area is defined. We owned 67 acres. In Wisconsin's rural areas land can only be owned in 40 acre or greater plots...to preserve the rural areas. Our neighbors around the perimeter of our land, all owned at least 40 acres and some owned more. On each of these plots was ONE home...no more. So is that a residential area? Hmmmm. Everyone around us hunted their land. We were landlocked except for a legal easement at the bottom of our driveway. We were the only ones who did not hunt our land or let others hunt it. It all gets tricky. I remember posting...taking hundreds of metal signs, nail and hammers and walking the entire perimeter of the 67 acres and nailing the signs to trees so the signs faced outward. It was a huge job....so we were an island in the middle of hundreds of acres...but our neighbors usually respected the posts. It was outsiders who did not. and some neighbors let other outsiders including friends hunt their land...it all gets tricky.

Mary

[kayc]

Oh my goodness! Here, even though "rural", some of the land is almost the size of a city plot. I have a small parcel, only 1.3 acres...many have 2 or 5 acres. 67 acres is a huge piece of property and to go out and walk it all and post signs is a daunting task! I understand the frustration about outsiders, they are the very ones who wouldn't understand and respect wishes, with others it's understood, written or not!

[mfh]

Yes, 40 acres is a lot of land and 67 acres is gigantic but small compared to what most own. When we bought the land with a house on it, land was cheap. We left in 1996 for CO and when we returned in 2002, the price of land had escalated. We knew we could not live in the country anyway due to our age...as you know it is a huge job and Bill was 9 years older than I. So we settled in a nearby town waiting for something in Spring Green to open up. Our land was incredible. We bought for land, not house. You can always change a house and we did...renovated it...with help. We had meadows, woods, rock outcroppings, streams, and more. I miss that chapter. Mary

[feralfae]

Dear Mary,

I am moving the long version off of your thread and over to transformations, just to not clutter too much over there. You were talking about your land, and I could feel your love and communion with your Home, the Earth, Life.

This is a wonderful month to share with you, thank you for opening your heart and memories here. I know it is healing for me as well, and I appreciate it very much.

This is a place, our hallowed ground, of abundant healing and kindness.

*<twinkles>*

fae