Grieving Boyfriend, Not Sure Whether To Stay Or Leave

[plum]

Thanks kayc

Feeling little contemplative today. Found out that he has a friend visiting him in few weeks and also next month. Seems like he is happy to have friends visit but I am barred from visiting so to speak?

I've been doing well but can't help but feel hurt again. Seems like I've gone from someone special to someone who may as well not exist?

I was close to sending him a rather hurt message but I shall refrain. Guess if we just keep drifting apart it may become easier at the end when it really is over for good.

[plum]

I was just thinking how I have been there supporting him all thruout and these 'friends' that're visiting haven't really been all that great at keeping in touch while his parents were sick.

I'm starting to feel pretty peeved about the fact that when i've been the one there for him that he doesn't even have the common decency to treat me like a 'friend' and instead is willing to hang out with ppl that he isn't even all that close to? Arghh I was doing so good, but now I am starting to get angry again!! I feel like having a go at him. I feel like saying, how would u feel if I was treating u how u were treating me now, and the situation was reversed? Do u think u would be happy with how I was making u feel? I feel like just saying whats on my mind and ending it so I can just forget about him and move on. What do u think?

[plum]

This is what I'm thinking about sending; I will sleep on it tonite and see how I feel tomorrow.. Yes or no?

I don't know how to explain this but I feel like I've been there to support you and be there for u during all the tough times u had and now suddenly u just literally throw me off to the side of the curb and lock me out of ur life?

I know u say u care about me, but I can't help but think that I don't think I would turn against someone that I cared about who had been supportive of me and treat them like s*** really.

Yes it still does hurt a little that u will celebrate ur b'day with everyone but I, and that ur continuing to socialise with everyone else but me. Maybe u can't explain how ur feeling and ur actions but do u honestly think that I would ever do the same to u? Turn to everyone else but you when I was going thru a such a difficult time and share my life with everyone but u?

Maybe your idea of having a 'partner' is different to mine. I want someone that will be there for the good and the bad. and I'm not gona shut them out when times get bad.

You say u love me but this isn't how u treat ppl that u love.

[plum]

Oop so it seems that I'm like having a conversation by myself currently due to my numerous posts but I thought I would just posr latest update.

He messaged tonite (he messaged last nite but I was out so didn't reply til this morning) and i kinda told him all the things I mentioned above. I said what he is doing is hurting me so much and he said that he is sorry but doesn't know why he feels that way. He said that he doesn't have energy to have this conversation and I kinda said that I dont know if me being in ur life is making things worse for u, and that I just want what's best for him. And how I feel so confused.

anyway he said that he feels like he just wants to be alone and that he feels like he needs to share his emotions with me if I'm around when all he wants to do is just keep it all to himself.

He said that he hates the fact that he is hurting me unintentionally but that's just how it is for now.

I felt so much better and then we joked about how he is going into his cave.

I knew all along that I shouldn't take it personally but I think we've all experienced it first hand how hard it is not to take it personally.

But hearing him say that it is definitely not his intention to hurt me or shut me out but that he can't help it for now really confirmed it.

I feel like a big load has been lifted off and I've told him that it will be the last time I bring it up because I finally 'get it'

He was like I've been trying to tell u this all this time and I was like yes I know but it is so confusing for me cuz that's not how girls think!

anyway it was his bday today. I think that's what triggered my emotional outburst. I hated the thought of missing out on something big in his life.

But i guess at the end of the day if my absence will make him happier than I'm happy. In a weird sad way. Lol

[Helena_d9]

Hello Plum,

I'm so sorry you were having a conversation with yourself...i was busy wallowing last night in bed watching Sex and the City trying not to look at my phone!

How are you feeling about things now? Have you decided to finish it like you said earlier or are you still seeing what may happen? I think if you would have sent that message straight away it may have done more harm than good so well done for sleeping on it. I completely, 100% understand how you felt and why you wanted to say that to him but i think it may have come out of the blue for him and just have read really angry.

I'm glad that you were able to talk about things and get stuff off your chest..it would have driven you crazy otherwise!

How have you guys left things?

Hope you're ok!

x

[kayc]

Plum,

I am so sorry you were going through all that last night and no one here on line either...I don't think there's any way to avoid feeling as you do, I know I did too when Jim was taking care of his dying mother and his ex-wife could visit or help but I, his fiance, couldn't! His neighbors and friends could stop by with food for him but I wasn't allowed. I felt angry too. Then he broke up with me and it was no contact for about 2 1/2 months. When we reconnected his mom had just died and he used me to tell his feelings to but I was kind of yanked around emotionally...he'd be one way one day, different the next, contact me every day then not for two weeks. I got so many mixed messages it was wreaking havoc with my mind, and I couldn't take it any more, I determined that was it, no more, put a wall up around my heart and determined I was NOT going to cry over him again or let him hurt me any more! I recognized I could not count on him, he wasn't the person (to me) that I'd thought he was, he wasn't the person (to me) that he'd demonstrated he was to his ex-wife for 30 years, to his mom, to his grown kids, his grandchildren, his neighbors, his friends. Everyone else could count on him, he was loyal to them, but me? Why was I singled out to be the exception? I don't know. I was true blue, loyal, supportive, understanding. I was jack sh*t. I don't know why. If I knew why I could answer all of your questions. I know we can't control the situation, the other person, their responses, we can only control our boundaries, our responses...so that's what I do. I've had to protect my heart. I'm not interested in putting myself out there for other guys to trample (I've been married four times and engaged twice, that's enough!), but to you who are young and have your whole lives ahead of you, you still have hope of a future with someone someday. And who knows, in my old age maybe even I will have that, ha, but I don't bank on it.

I am so sorry, this is written not just to Plum, but Helena and Pollara, and anyone going through this. It sucks, it's major not fair! I wish it wasn't so.

The best answer I can think of is that they don't have to expend effort emotionally with their friends, etc. in the same way they feel they need to with us...so when they're with us and aren't able to give what they feel we expect, they feel bad about themselves and so it's easier to avoid us or put the relationship on time out or something. They can't give what they don't have right now.

In time I came to view Jim as not relationship material, as not having it in him to do a relationship with me, so I let go of that dream. I don't get it. He's been there for everyone else, just not me. Maybe I have a sign on my head that says "break my heart" or "stupid", I don't know, I just know what is.

[Pollara]

Plum I am so sorry, I wasn't online either last night. But at least you got an answer.It is the same for me. OK I know this isn't very reassuring, but at least all of us have been in your shoes and when we say I know how it feels, at least we know. I got the same thought last night when a mutual friend told me that my bf called him to go out. I was like that because when my bf couldn't meet his friends because of his mom illness everyone was out and having fun, while I was the only one who went there and keep him company. i was the only one who really care on what is been going through and I was the first person that he contacted to tell me the news. And in the end he rejected me like that. By treating me like I was a person that he just met. And although my psychologists friends keep telling me that he doesn't have the emotional energy to think of anything else and he acts as he feels and that he doesn't need to have this energy to just go out, sometimes I really forget it. I kind of understand i, because now I feel at a loss, but when I am with my friends or at work, I somehow manage to forget a litle about my sadness. But I don't have the energy on dealing with other stuffs that need my emotional energy. So I imagine being in his shoes and to know that a person that I really loved would not be in my life anymore (OK as I told I didn't grieved for my mother but relationships play an important role).
But I don't know, I think that if he still contacts you, in the future he might eventually return to you. And I also believe the same with Helena. As for KayC I really believe that Jim is there but too afraid to ask you anything since he knows that he broke your heart. I think that if they didn't want they would have already cut contact. At least that is what I have seen in the most "unsuccesful" cases. Of course that is just my guessing and I am not a medium or something. I hope everything turn out well

PS: at least your boyfriend gave you an explanation that he can help the rest of us

[kayc]

And although my psychologists friends keep telling me that he doesn't have the emotional energy to think of anything else and he acts as he feels and that he doesn't need to have this energy to just go out, sometimes I really forget it.

They are so spot on! And you're right, it's hard to keep in mind. I wish I'd known all this at the time I was going through it, maybe things could have turned out different...but then again, maybe not.

[Pollara]

Yes it is true. I consider myself lucky because I found you to give me some piece of advice and to share my thought with people that they are been going through the same. Also, I might be more than lucky in my misfortune, because I found the forum as soon as his mother died and before he start distancing himself. Otherwise I would have never asked the help of my psychologists friends and I would have probably acted as my friends (who hasn't been in a similar situation) advice me: probably leave him without asking anything, tell him that he is an @sshole who never cared about me or my emotions etc. Lucky me I am not a compulsive person, otherwise who knows what would I do.

As for you KayC, it might have been better for you psychologically of course to know all these, but in the end, I think you acted with dignity, you didn't push him over something and you respected his decision. So yes it might have been easier for you psychologically, but the outcome I think would have been the same

PS: I also think that time have stopped for them in a way and that they just do things in order for the day to finish and keep on with the next day etc. For instance, I can see my bf is 24h in MSN. He probably doesn't even has the courage to turn off the computer. Mutual friends also told me that he still has our picture for wallpaper in his mobile phone. I think that he doesn't even have the courage to change it although technically we are not a couple anymore

[kayc]

I leave my computer on 24 hours/day because my son (who is an engineer) told me it's easier on the computer/wiring not be be hot/cold on/off and the only thing that it's hard on for being left on is the fan, which is $15 to replace. So I often leave my email open, etc. even if I'm asleep, it doesn't necessarily mean he's looking at his computer 24 hours/day.

Jim's daughter told me that he was constantly cyber-stalking me after he broke up with me, wanting to know how I was, etc. ??? Guys are complicated.

[Pollara]

Oh yes I leave it open too 24h but he wasn't that type. He always logged out of MSN or other social networks and left his PC. This new 24h routine started with his grief. But since he cannot be there 24h, I guess he doesn't even bother to turn it off.

[plum]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all ur replies!

Yeah I'm feeling lot better. I slept really well last nite for first time in a while!

We ended the conversation in a really good note.

He was saying how he knows that this is hurting me and that he doesn't like that. But he can't help himself. And then when he says sorry he genuinely means it.

He said that he could lie and tell me the things that I would wanna hear but he thinks he at least owes me honesty.

To which I said that I really appreciate it and for him to continue to do so.

I said that I only want what's best for him and how it's so confusing for me. And that I just want I be able to help him. He said that he doesn't wanna be helped and that there is nothing I can do.

I could sense that he was feeling really bad about the whole situation.

Anyway as we were saying goodnite I asked if it was still ok to tell him that I love him to which he replied of course, and me too.

So Helena I guess I've just left things the way it is as I feel that I can't be angry at him for something that he can't help himself. And I know that he would want to have things differently if he had control over it.

And at the end of the day like I said to him: although the current situation makes me feel angry and resentful I'm trying to change how I feel about it because when u love someone u try and be understanding.

At the end of the day I feel that we're both not ready to walk away yet because we have so much history together and still love each other...

maybe with him going into the 3rd decade now he may want to start fresh as majority of all our 20's were spent with each other.. Who knows...

[kayc]

I hope you'll be the second one who makes it through this then, Plum! You're handling things right, it's just when thing stretch out into months or maybe even years, it's tough on YOU, and bottom line, it's nice to be in a good spot instead of...this. But then I'm sure they feel this way too.

[Helena_d9]

I'm so glad you seem to be feeling more positive Plum and i hope that everything works out ok. I think the worst part is not knowing what is going on or what is going on in their head, which makes it so much harder to be understanding. I'm glad though that he is talking things through with you and i think all your history together will be a positive factor in him not just throwing everything you had away.

Thank you for your kind words to all of us earlier KayC, no one as caring as you could possibly end up alone and if everything happens for a reason please know that you and your advice has been a huge help to a lot of people. I wish i was more prepared about grief etc but i was so out of my comfort zone in knowing what to do when it all started with him mum etc i just focused on him and what i could do to help rather than thinking about the after effects. He acted as though everything was fine and living a plane's ride away from his mum made me think that maybe he was ok and that because it was inevitable that he wouldn't hit him this hard....how wrong was i!

Whatever happens for all of us i think we've now been given insight into something most people don't know about or have to deal with which surely can only be a good thing?

x

[kayc]

Helena,

You couldn't have been expected to have known...all of us tried to be supportive. I made the "demand" on Jim that he see me for an hour a week while he was taking care of his mom...something I didn't think was unreasonable. By my way of thinking, she wasn't diagnosed with cancer or anything, and it could have gone on for years like that...my experience with my own MIL was she was bedridden and dying of cancer nearly three years while I took care of her! You can't do a relationship with no contact for that long! But he refused, hung up on me and a few days later I got my "dear John" letter with my cell phone by Fed Ex at my office! That was it.

I didn't realize at the time that he would view that as a demand, or that it would send him over the edge. I still think I was right, that a relationship cannot go on indefinitely with NO time spent together. And I knew his family would not come through for him, I knew his daughters would not take turns with him. If I'd known his mom would only live three months, I could have waited, hard as it was, but it still probably would have ended up the same because grieving goes on and on and he was barely surviving/existing, up to his ears in dealing with the estate, family drama, etc. I honestly don't see a way this could have had a different outcome. And that's too bad. He was someone I could have seen myself spending the rest of my life with. At this age, there aren't that many guys that appeal to me. Most of them at 50 look 67. A lot of them are couch potatoes. Most of them only care about their kids, not "a woman" in their life. The pickings are slim. To find someone handsome with a great sense of humor, comfortable to be around, smart, good with your kids, interesting, challenging, compatible beliefs, well that's just plain hard to find. Ahh well, my dog is looking better by the minute! Here's a picture of him, BTW!

[Pollara]

I agree Helena. The worst thing is that we don't know. How great it would be to know that he found another or that he just wants to spit on our faces. Or that this is the end and I don't want to have contact anymore. But this Scotish shower is very stressful. It is the first time since highschool that I found myself in such a situation. I usualy don't care because I know the reasons or I think I deserve more. But when it comes to grief, I realize that it is noone faults and this hurt me most. It would be really easier for me just to know that I made a mistake than no I was the perfect one. But this is how it is going.

KayC your dog is very handsome. How old is he? And yes you are right about the age problems. So find a younger one

[kayc]

Ha ha, my last three were younger than me. My dog is one in the picture but five now, got a tail that curls up, looks like a giant fox, 117 lbs. I love him to death! No man that doesn't like my dog can get close to me!

You are right...this is the most complicated situation to be in...if they were cheating on us we could say, "Crumbums!" and be on our way, but we feel like we need to be understanding because this is due to grief...however, no one can stay in limbo indefinitely!

[plum]

Oh ur dog ur so adorable kayc!! Yes dogs r so awesome!!

I have a family dog that's 18 yo now! We took him to vet

cuz he kept losing weight but he is too old to have anything done.

I might be posting in the losing a pet section in the future.

Anyway thanks for all ur support again.

I was just thinking Helena do u think maybe ur bd didn't know himself how hard it would hit him?

Maybe it is due to the fact that now both of his parents r gone?

My guy seemed to cope ok when his mum died (we weren't together then thou)

And I thought he coped brilliantly when he was taking care of his dad.

It was at the back of my mind thou that maybe he will suddenly change and not wanna be with me. I actually looked up how grief can affect relationships as soon as his dad died as I wanted to prepare myself for how he would cope.

But he said to me few wks after that he didn't think it would hit him this hard. And that he feels like he is still just a kid left alone in the world now.

I would definitely losing one remaining parent would be lot harder than still having one parent surviving?

[Pollara]

Yeah Plum. My bf also told me the same (also he regard his grief as boredom). But he told that the first weeks he was ok and actually seemed surprised on how good he was. But then three weeks after he went to his "cave" and start to be boring of everything. I think that he doesn't know that he is been going through grief, and sometmes I wonder, should I propose him a book or something (about grief)? Or will he find this ironic?

I also repost for another site, something a person wrote (it is from the griever's side) who broke up his girl and then return but the girl was not there for him anymore. Just to see what the "other side" might thinking

"I don’t know how I found this place, maybe it just found me? But I have read through every post in this thread and it hits home hard what has happened to me.

Today would have been my mum’s birthday. She was diagnosed with breast cancer almost a year ago, suddenly my world crumbled and I was scared of losing her but I thought that she would get better, after a month in hospital she was released for enough time to enjoy her last Christmas. In January she was moved to a hospice and lost her battle so suddenly.

My girlfriend stood by me the whole time, she was close to my mum and she helped me through.

The funeral was in February and I felt myself changing and my focus was not on my relationship anymore. In March I took my girlfriend on holiday to try to escape from my feelings and as soon as we arrived back I got ill and developed psoriasis on my body.

I had alot to come to terms with, I felt physically ugly, needy and not worthy of my girlfriend. I lost focus on the relationship and I thought that she would do better without me as I was now a broken man and not the person that she met.

I ended it about a month later and my only thought was “if you love somebody set them free – if they come back then it is yours forever” – I prayed that she would come back.

I bought a house and I moved out of her flat where I was living and I concentrated on myself – It was almost like I was an island and I built a wall around me and pushed everyone away who reminded me of old times, including my dad who I stopped speaking to. I felt that I didn’t deserve them. I concentrated on my work and renovating the house but the entire time in my mind I was renovating the house as a family home for my girlfriend and her daughter and my sons – the children were from previous relationships.

I didn’t hear from her, the months passed and I got better, the psoriasis cleared and I spent time in the gym and slowly started feeling my old self again and I was ready to tell her. Two weeks ago I tried to call – but she had changed her number.

So I sent an email trying to explain - and there was no reply.

I panicked and sent some flowers with a note asking her to call me. She did call in tears saying that her boyfriend had seen the flowers and it had caused rows.

She then sent a text saying that she couldn’t believe it had taken me so long to realise what she meant to me and that she was in a strong relationship now.

I sent another email a few days later to apologise for sending the flowers but my only regret was not sending them sooner I also told her that it hurts that she is not speaking to me after what we went through. But now she won’t reply.

I just want her to know that she is the most important person in the world to me and that I never stopped loving her or thinking of her for one single second. But now she will never know it.

I want her to know that there is a home here for her and her daughter and I want to have a family with her and make the commitment that she wanted me to before – we regularly looked at rings. But now she will never know it.

If I had a time machine I would jump into it right now. I am trying to explain this from the side of someone who ended their relationship after losing a parent, and no other reason, but to be honest I still can’t explain what happened – I now know that I was depressed and I guess it’s an instinct to push people away when you are ill.

I’m not going to defend anyone’s actions, least of all mine,- but it is slightly different when someone ends a healthy relationship to grieve – There was no grass is greener and nobody else involved.

I am writing this so it is here forever, maybe one day she will find this place or maybe it will find her?

"

[plum]

I'm currently having the dilemma of planning my holiday. I was gona take him on holiday for his b'day but now that def isn't an option! it's kind of hard to get excited for a holiday when it's gona end up becoming a solo trip

I was feeling very positive about everything in the morning but this holiday planning is making me feel down...

Pollara I read that post somewhere too. sad really isn't it. I wonder if the girl is happier thou...

I sometimes think that maybe I would be happy too with someone else who can offer me the things that my guy can't offer right now. Like commitment and plans for the future and companionship..

Such a tricky situation that we all find ourselves in...

[Pollara]

yup. But since we cannot imagine being with another at that time, let's just stick to it. lol

I mean yup if this continue on endlessly, in the end we will be the ones that we will leave, because as KayC has already mentioned, the well dries up by only giving after a while.

It happens to me some days. I wake up very optimist and then think something and become pesimist again. Just arrange your holidays like he wasn't there. I know it is tough, but I also did the same, since we were supposed to plan our summer holidays in our country together. But since he wasn't sure whether I return for holidays or not, I stayed here and arranged my time here.

[kayc]

Plum, I hope you don't lose your dog soon. My granddoggy hasn't long to live and I am so close to him, he used to live with me as between the time my son was in the Air Force and got married, he was here off and on and his dog with him. It is so hard losing our furry companions.

Pollara,

Thank you for sharing that guy's story. But I'm kind of astounded that he actually thought she'd still be lurking around? You have to wonder about their perspectives sometimes. It IS sad, and it's a lose-lose situation. Not really anyone's "fault", it just is what it is.

Plum,

I imagine it is hard planning your holiday now. Could you maybe take a girlfriend with you and just go have a good time?

Yesterday morning I got rear-ended on my way to work. It was a stressful day, spent an hour waiting for the cop to get all of our information and release us, then later on another 1 3/4 hours going to the DMV to fill out a report (75 people in line ahead of me). Phone calls with insurance people. Now need to see the adjuster and schedule the repair work, such a hassle as I live in the country, far away from insurance adjusters and auto repairs. I tried to call Jim last night but no answer, haven't heard from him today. I've learned I can't count on him, but that's hard. Someone said earlier maybe he wanted me back but didn't think it possible...I don't think so. He hasn't indicated that and I think I left that opening for him...just not without requirements. If he loved me, he could have found his way back. I guess I know the answer to that. I think he's still mixed up and maybe doesn't know what he wants.

You wondered if it's harder if it's the last parent left...yes it is. Jim's mom was his last parent...he hadn't been there when his dad died and always felt bad about that. He'd promised his mom she wouldn't have to go to a nursing home and he'd take care of her and he kept that promise, he quit his job to do so! Not having been there for his dad weighed in heavily with his decisions. Losing the remaining parent does leave one feeling cut adrift...

[plum]

Oh no Kayc!!

I'm so sorry to hear about ur accident!! Hope you've sorted it all out and get to enjoy the weekend.

Its disappointing to hear that Jim didn't answer ur call either. It sounded like u could've really used a friend in ur time of need but he wasn't here for u.

I don't know what Jim is thinking, as he is older and has more life experiences than me so I think any perspective I would have would not be as qualified or experienced your ones.

Yeah I tried to see if any friends wanted to go with me, but they couldn't get time off when I had my hols...

I went travelling by myself for first time last year. I really only had few days on my own as I had friends in the places I went to. I know I can do it but it's something that I would prefer not having to do...

I was actually gona send my guy text to wish him happy b'day party but I was pretty busy today so didn't get around to it. Maybe I'll hear from him on the weekend maybe I won't. I have no expectation from him anymore so doesn't really hurt my feelings anymore that I haven't heard from him for few days.

Already a month since his dad passed away, and he seems to be going into his cave even more. Wish I had a crystal ball and knew how much longer it will go on for. : (

[Pollara]

Oh KayC, I hope you arranged things and I am sorry to hear about your accident. at least you are ok and that is what count.

I agree with you, about the guy, it is selfish to believe that the other will wait (I think it was something like 7 months after their break up that he contacted her) but I just wanted to share this post in order t see what the griever's side might thinking.

Plum, the thing with this situations is that you never know how much they gonna endure, that is why in the end they tell you to go or we let it go. My guy has been now on the 3rd month. (OK he was ok for 3 weeks but then it is 2 months who is like that).

[kayc]

The ins. co. has agreed to cover the repairs so that's good. With it being a three car accident I wasn't sure which ins. to file against, the one that struck me or the furthest one back but the furthest one back has accepted responsibility so that's good, it means I won't have to fight it out. Poor little car! I am just so thankful people weren't hurt and everyone was insured.

It's rare to get their side of things, I don't know if it helps or not, but it's easy to see their perspective is pretty foggy and unrealistic. It's easy to see it is grief and not necessarily indicative of their feelings for us. However, it doesn't make it a whole lot easier to accept or deal with.