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Three Years: When Do We Start Feeling Normal?


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Thank you Marty. I am going in a few hours to the visitation for Chris. His father is my first cousin, Gary. I know the pain that Gary is going through. I lost a child many years ago, in 1972, who lived for only 4 months. Gary had Chris for 40 years, and I imagine that every year, every day that you have a child, it makes it all that much harder to have to say goodby. They were very close. Chris's death brings back so much, not only Mike's death (they were very similar), but also the death of Kevin my son. Thank God for my daughter, her husband and my friend Tom, they are all coming over here tonight, and we are going to put death and dying out of our minds, and do some silly stuff like wii bowling...........sometimes you just have to put it away, or you will drown in your tears.

Mary (Queeniemary) in Arkansas

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Mary, I am home from Chicago and want to respond to a lot of email but saw yours about the loss of your cousin and just wanted to express my sadness. I know you will be a help to her as she starts a journey you and i are three years into.

I hear you about the three year mark. I truly have better days but somehow the third anniversary was very tough...some because it coincided with Easter as Bill's death did also so it felt the same but I think I had some weird expectation that by 3 years I would be coping better. I do cope well most of the time when I am not sick with pneumonia, remembering an anniversary, in chaos due to painting and dealing with risky eye surgeries...all of which have happened since Christmas leaving me vulnerable. So, I do not know if the three year mark for me is normal (whatever normal is). I look back and see basically an 8 year stretch where our lives veered off what was normal to us. I want to say that 8 years (the last 5 of his Alzheimer's and 3 since) was a detour but I know it has just been life. I hope both of us see continued and gradual healing. I agree also that I bounce back faster and deal better but it is hard to sort in view of the other things that have gone on this year. OH, well...onward.

Again I am sorry about your cousin'd death and I am sorry for his wife. Maybe she will find her way to this group someday.

You asked about my eyes. I have several dx on my eyes but one of them puts me at considerable risk for cataract surgery. If I wait, the risk increases. If I do not do the surgery, the cataracts will ultimately blind me. My aunt was totally blind as a result. My mom, who also had this Dx read until she was 99 even without her glasses and this same surgeon did cataract surgery on her eyes. I do not know if her Dx had progressed as much as mine has. But I had 5 hours in the car coming in from Chicago (just got home and preparing for a nap with Bentley) and as I listened to Brene Brown's book The Gift of Imperfection, my mind wandered about and I know I have to affirm that these surgeries will go well and that all will be well as I also own my fears but not allow them to control my life. So that is what I plan to do. Thank you for asking. The thought of being blind is off the charts bad for me. I wear hearing aids and when I do not have them in I get a sense of how difficult hearing loss would be but blindness...tough stuff for me. My brother came around a bit this morning. This is a pattern of his. He does a knee jerk reaction and becomes the fixer...then later on he reaches into his empathic self (which does exist) for compassion. He did fairly well this morning and again when I just called him to lethim know I got home safely. I just never know which person I will meet so I protect myself....Brene Brown had some good info on that in this second book. Now i will read her new book: Daring Greatly. She is great. Later I will post some links. I need to take a nap and later respond to a bunch of emails and post.

You are in my thoughts and prayers as you go through this painful visitation and funeral that I am sure trips off memories and as you said...tears when you heard him on the radio. Peace to you and your cousin, Mary (the other one---I need a title besides the other one...:)

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Mary, I'm so sorry to hear of your second cousin, certainly you are all in my prayers, esp. his young wife. We hate to see anyone join our ranks.

Other Mary, I'm glad you're home safe and I bet you got a greeting from Bentley! I'm glad your brother softened a bit in his delivery. I don't see as you have a choice but have to go ahead with surgery, what have you got to lose if not having it means you go blind? Let's hope for the odds being favorable...try to let go of the "what ifs" until they come. I know, easier said than done, spoken from the master worrier! :) I wish you didn't have to go through this interim period of waiting and wondering.

Hot here today, my friend's place said 100, mine said 84, I think the sun must have been hitting hers, but even Arlie doesn't have any energy. I've gotten a lot done today, but not much later in the day. Hoping to get caught up in the morning when it cools off.

A lot of you are wondering about the three year mark...for me, after I completed three years, can't say exactly when, it got better...to a point, the rest I had to live with. When big things come along that challenge us, such as Anne's physical situation, Mary's eye, the falls I took and my job layoff nearly two years ago, it is those times that it hits us all over again. We are used to having their support and then when we need it, we feel the void keenly. That doesn't mean we aren't making progress, it's to be expected we will miss them the rest of our lives and some times will hit us all the harder.

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QueenieMary - sorry to hear about your cousin's son. It's going to be a tough road for them all. It's a good thing they have family. I often reflect that if I'd had family around me - a network - I would have managed much better.

Mary - I hope you can have the surgery done. It must be frightening to think about - but most cataract surgeries do go very well.

Will keep everyone in my prayers. I'm starting to wonder who really listens to these prayers - but again, if we're all part of the same light, then maybe everyone responds in some way.

Melina

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Mary - I hope you can have the surgery done. It must be frightening to think about - but most cataract surgeries do go very well.

Will keep everyone in my prayers. I'm starting to wonder who really listens to these prayers - but again, if we're all part of the same light, then maybe everyone responds in some way.

Hi Metteline, Thank you for your kind words. The problem with this surgery is that I have an eye condition that puts me at risk. Otherwise I know cataract surgery, though still surgery, usually is safe. But surgery is surgery and this one scares me.

As for prayer...I am not much of a person to ask for things in prayer. I am uncertain about what prayer means for most but for me it is a consciousness raising, a uniting myself with all Being/God/Spirit or holding others in the light of Spirit. I do believe that if a lot of people are holding someone in prayer (however each defines that), it can have a powerful outcome especially if the person being prayed for knows it is happening...because for me it is all about energy...and all energy is one and our thoughts can affect energy and even affect water and plants so I believe it can affect us and if we are in oneness with all Being...that feels powerful. It may be that the effect is in attitude or in peace as opposed to healing. I do believe it would have been possible for Bill, even in late stage AD, to be healed somehow, as miracles do happen but it was his time apparently and I could go crazy thinking I did not pray enough so I have to let go of that one. I believe in healers and have been in the presence of one and seen results myself....I sort of wish I had taken Bill to South America to John of God ( http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Science-Religion/2002/11/John-Of-God-Investigating-A-Brazilian-Faith-Healer.aspx ) but who knows...it was not to be. This man apparently is a healer.

In the early 80s, I attended healing services with Barbara O'Malley ( http://www.barbaraomalley.org/ ) who held them near where I lived and is still holding them near my eye doctor so I may actually go to a service when I am down there again. Listening to her story and watching what happened and seeing evidence made me a believer if I had doubts before. I did a weekend retreat with her also. She is really conservative...Catholic from the 50s thinking...but whatever. I wish I had taken Bill there but I was so caught up in caregiving, exhaustion and trauma and the medical world that it actually never entered my mind as it had been many many years since I had done that. I guess it was not to be. But....I still wish I had been on my toes. But I can't go there...for obvious reasons.

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Mary, I understand you're scared about the surgery. And it's extra scary not having Bill there to help you through it. I guess you just have to weigh the benefits vs the drawbacks. I hope you have a doctor you can trust that can help you make the decisions.

I'm such a skeptic when it comes to alternative methods, and the healing field seems to be full of quacks, but since I've never encountered a healer, I should probably not pass judgement. There is an old man in the far north of Norway who is nationally known as a healer. He healed for free, but is very old now and has asked not to be disturbed. Some people have said he is the real thing. But he was very selective as to who he tried to heal. His motto was that certain people should be "free to go", meaning that for certain people, it was their time.

I could make myself crazy thinking about all the things I could have done to save Thyge from the lung cancer. And I have made myself crazy thinking about those things. I've agonized over them. But given that most things cost money, which we didn't have, and that things happened so fast, and also that neither of us had the time to take in the fact that he might die - I guess there was nothing we could do apart from follow the doctor's instructions.

Thyge and I were both fans of a series of children's books written by a Finnish author. They were the sort of books that were both for children and adults - very poetic and beautiful, but with lots of humor. We used to quote from the books to each other. One of the things we both quoted was a line from one of the stories that took place in early summer: that if the first butterfly you see at the start of summer is white, it will be a peaceful summer. If it's brown, it will be a sad summer. If it's yellow, it will be an exciting adventure of a summer.

Well - the first butterfly he saw in 2009 was brown. Shortly after, we got his cancer diagnosis. It was an awful summer. The first butterfly he saw in 2010 was yellow - and we convinced ourselves it was a sign - a wonderful summer. But that summer he died. So much for butterfly stories. But then later I thought - well, maybe for him, it was and still is an exciting adventure.

After reading dozens of NDE accounts, it seems to me that those who pass over to the next life are generally thrilled to be there. They don't want to come back. So maybe we can only do what we can to help them, and hope that they're happy and waiting for us in a place where there is no time.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't try what you can to heal your eyes. That's different, since you're not trying to stop yourself from dying - you just want to be able to see properly. So if you can afford a healer, and you really believe it might work - then maybe you should try.

Melina

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Dear Melina,

Your words about Thyge's leaving touched my heart. When Doug was diagnosed with intestinal cancer, we never thought he would not make it. Even though it was fairly advanced and metastasized, we thought that between the two of us, both very intelligent people, we would do the research and conquer this problem as we had so many others.

Doug used all the alternative care he could find, I researched and prepared special foods and supplements for him, he also had chemo, used electronic machines that were too expensive for us to actually afford -- we cleaned out our vacation and car purchase funds to buy them -- and also saw healers, naturopaths, homeopaths, and so many specialists in so many areas of healing that I got confused with the treatments and schedules. We were entirely determined, and had our new home designed, believing we would be in that new home very soon.

All of it may have helped Doug to stay longer, since he managed to stay far longer than any of the doctors predicted. I don't think any of us want to accept the reality of our Beloved leaving, and Doug certainly intended to stay and we did not "give in" to the prospect of him leaving until the last few months.

I am sure you and Thyge did all you could do to heal him and get him good medical care. The butterfly stories are very touching. We, too, looked for signs along Doug's journey through cancer, and we were trying our best to see only the positive signs. I am sure you did all you could, and that those things we missed doing, well, we probably did not have time or resources to do, anyway.

I think we can find some comfort in the knowledge that we gave the best we could -- we gave out love, compassion, company, hope, faith, and care. We kept our faith and our vows. We rose to the occasion, and for many of us, that meant that we set aside our own lives to help our husbands or wives, and to be there, sharing love and hope with them for as long as they needed us to do so. We did not abandon them to disease, nor did we turn away from them in spirit. I know that my loving presence and my constancy meant more to Doug than almost anything else. We stayed, and we loved, and we held them as they left their bodies. We gave them love, and I believe that is the most precious gift that any human can share with another. The spirits we loved know out love still, and that is a golden thread that does not break, but keeps us connected, spirit to spirit.

And I don't think we will ever lose that precious connection.

Peace and Blessings,

fae

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Mary, I understand you're scared about the surgery. And it's extra scary not having Bill there to help you through it. I guess you just have to weigh the benefits vs the drawbacks. I hope you have a doctor you can trust that can help you make the decisions.

After reading dozens of NDE accounts, it seems to me that those who pass over to the next life are generally thrilled to be there. They don't want to come back. So maybe we can only do what we can to help them, and hope that they're happy and waiting for us in a place where there is no time.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't try what you can to heal your eyes. That's different, since you're not trying to stop yourself from dying - you just want to be able to see properly. So if you can afford a healer, and you really believe it might work - then maybe you should try.

Hi Metteline, I do have a doctor I totally trust...she has taken care of my eyes for many years and saved my brother's vision also...he had other issues. I do think that Bill is quite at peace wherever he is...I prefer to think his energy is in and around me as i believe it is. The healer I might see at a service is free. It is a healing service...and sometimes healing just means increased peace. I am not even sure I will go but it is nearby and I have nothing to lose. I do believe there are millions of quacks out there but I also believe we are all channels of healing energy...some more in touch with it than others and some use it and some do not. Thanks for reaching out. I really have no choice about surgery...it is my only hope for not being blind down the road. Today I am just trying to create a hopeful and positive attitude as i also hold the fear in my hand. Thanks, Metteline. Mary

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Fae,

I forgot to thank you for your words. I wish I could say I'd done everything I could to help my husband, but his illness developed so quickly, I felt I was on a roller coaster ride I had no control over. I was not always the compassionate, perfect wife. So much happened in such a short time, that I was stressed out of my mind.

We never thought he would die from the illness - we had such faith that he would survive. It was such a shock when he died, that I think it took me the better part of a year - or even two - before the realization hit me. So I've never had that comfort of knowing I did my best. I will always feel the guilt.

Melina

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Melina

We all feel guilt. Our minds just keep on coming up with things we could have done. I found myself recently thinking Why did I take music into Pete when he was in hospital? But I did do something I remember but the stroke left him in a very sort of passive state. Or why didnt I play more music when he was home? But I know I was the most busy I have ever been in my life then, just trying to care for him properly. There are so many times when this guilt hits us. We did what we could do at the time. It may not have been perfect (of course it wasn't) but our love for them is the most important thing.

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Metteline, I do understand that guilt, believe me. I remember you and I having a lovely long telephone conversation way back about guilt and grief. I carried that burden for a long time but as I have analyzed it repeatedly and recently it now is sadness I feel. I feel so badly that I was not able to be the perfect caregiver and be the compassionate, tender person that I truly am and that Bill knew so well, but I now know I did my best (as did you) under the circumstances; that I was also a patient (i.e. exhausted and in shock and trauma--not who I am-I do not even know that person but I know she lives within me) during those years (that acknowledgement helped me a lot). I worked on forgiving myself for not being all I was but then thought that I really did do my best given the situation and that my best certainly was not good enough and maybe others are better at caregiving under trauma than I am. Maybe I was not soft or present enough but it WAS my best at the time. I zoned out with the trauma and I see that now. I suspect it was similar for you. Guilt, in my books, is of two kinds. One is when we intend to hurt someone's feelings or fail them or whatever...of course, that is not relevant here. We did not intend to fall short of the mark. The other is the guilt we hang on to in order to punish ourselves over and over again for something we never intended to do that hurt someone or was less than perfect. I clearly was dealing with the latter...and have learned to let guilt go. However, I still feel sad about all of it. I would loved to have had it all different. But it was not different. It was pure hell. I do know Bill now smiles warmly on me from what is now his place of pure joy and light. I hope you can let go of the guilt eventually and know that you were in a state of trauma and did the best anyone could do under the circumstances.

Peace to your heart,

Mary

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Melina-

I am at about three and a half years. I did find this site extremely helpful after Joe first died. I'm in a strange emotional place and I am not thinking clearly so I've returned to see if I am alone with this prolonged state. I do find the grief will hit me when I am overwhelmed. It definitely has curbed my confidence and decision making. I find myself speaking of Joe's death and trying to make it a short statement as to not provoke conversation.... and then I feel badly that I did not speak more of what Joe was about... I've lost contact wtih his entire family. He had an Aunt that passed this year and she was the only one that did stay in touch. I don't reach out to them so I can not place blame anywhere. Maybe it is easier to cope that way. People don't speak of him unless I bring him up and then they don't know what to say to me.... still. I've tried another relationship but it does not fill the void and I am somehow stuck and need to end it. I can't quite pull myself together to do that as it will be another loss - albeit a positive one but still a loss. I hope some of what I have shared gives you some reassurance that what you are feeling and going thru is not strange or uncommon.

Please feel free to e-mail me if you ever need to chat. I would welcome that from anyone here as so many of you really helped me thru a horrible first few months.

Blessing and Peace!!!

- Linda G

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Linda,

I like this picture of you two, it looks very endearing, very sweet. Other relationships didn't do it for me either, and I've had a couple more trying but it's not going to happen, I'm not interested...no one is like George, nor do they seem to bring to the table...anything. :(

Do you have any children or siblings or parents you can talk to about him? I guess I'm lucky to have my family, they remember and love him. I don't have contact with his family either. It's like they all forgot him, I don't get it.

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KayC-

Thank you for the note. Your picture is lovely too. My Mom and Dad are older. My Dad seems to understand and he brings up Joe often in a lovingly and funny way. We did not have children and I am an only child. I do have close friends that remember the important holidays, etc. It's been a lonely journey at times but I do feel Joe with me. I always thought people who said that were nuts, but I know he's around for the good and the bad. To be honest, I think I needed this forum again to speak of Joe and the grief. I need another outlet if that makes sense as people don't want me in that sad place and sometimes I need to be there :)....

-Linda G

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Thank you Marty,

As usual, spot on.

I have given up trying to have a schedule or one year, or three years, or a week for this or a month for that.

It just seems to flow, and we both participate and observe.

:)

So far, so good. There is crying, there is heartache, and sometimes, there is joy. I have about given up analyzing it, and am just living it now, and letting myself be in the flow. I don't think time matters very much.

Thank you.

fae

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I love that graphic, Marty. It has taken me a long time to give myself permission to take all the time I need....I am finally at a place where I truly believe it takes the time it takes but I wonder how many struggle with this in our death phobic society. With graphics like that around...obviously a lot. Thanks, Mary

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I woke up this morning thinking about the piece I posted yesterday (I think it was yesterday) on the Prolonged Grief topic. So I read it this morning for about the 5th or 6th time. It is poorly written or needs editing (why, I do not know) but the message has touched me at such a deep place. I was ready for it and it appeared (as happens in my life all the time and always has. It is how I met Bill, got various jobs, and so much more). I am re-posting the piece here having highlighted what really speaks to me. I also emailed the author yesterday to see if he has any other references on year 4 (and beyond). I am not sure why I needed some psychologist I never met and know nothing about, who published an unedited but great and relevant article, to affirm what I knew so deeply in my own soul about myself -to give myself permission to be where I am- but I did, so I am not going to challenge the validity of what happened for me. It was life changing and I was ready. I think these moments are rare in our lives and it may not speak to anyone else...and that is ok too.

Article I found highlighted: 4th year highlighted.pdf

I think this is the original (well written) piece. Someone must have altered it to get the previous one as this author has many books and research pieces out there and appears to be an expert in PTSD among other things. He is quite prolific:

http://www.dhs.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/753448/Rob-Gordon-article-4th-year-anniversary-of-Black-Saturday.pdf

As a result when I went to art group last night, instead of painting, I did what I have needed to do since I started painting 5 months after Bill died but which I do sporadically, i.e. I set up my master palette...(for me that means I made a commitment to painting-finally) and decided what colors I need to order. I only have 42 :wub: (One can never have enough)! I will spend this holiday weekend painting. There were only three of us at group. One of them helped me a lot with my palette. She is grieving deeply three very significant and traumatic losses that happened recently in a three week period resulting in her having a stress induced heart attack (MD's words) following the third loss which forced her to retire. This is a strong courageous woman age 65, a forest ranger in Alaska half of each year, who paints grisly bears from close up (awgh!) and who has spent months alone in an isolated cabin in the middle of nowhere Alaska hiking hours alone each day to check archeological sites. She is tough and yet she fell apart. The other just lost her mom and has also been trying to help her best friend who lost her husband (and who is not dealing well at all with it) when they were burning a field a year ago...on a day they should never have chosen and without help. So at art group we shared as we worked and talked about loss and grief and it was real and good and deep...and comforting. Sometimes when we open a door within ourselves, all the windows open also... shedding light on our lives.

I post this piece again for those of you who are in year 4 or beyond and for those who just started the journey because so much applies to anyone grieving at any time. It also makes me think of those dealing with the loss of their babies and loved ones and homes in Oklahoma. Maybe if I read it 3 months ago, it would not have leaped off my monitor and into my soul but I suspect it would since I have been looking for these words for a while...a long while...all during year 3. I have been so lost...running hard. They bring tears to my eyes because they resonate with the deep exhaustion I live with, which I neglect repeatedly, and which I have refused to honor because I "should be" further down the road of grief by now. How stupid can I be? Or maybe the real question is, "How frightened can I be?"

Without getting too woo-woo, I just tried to find some other of Gordon's work and came upon a video on You Tube of his work in Israel with those in trauma dealing with scud missiles. It was uploaded to You Tube on the same day that Bill died.

Now I need to go meditate.

Mary

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Mary,

Thank you for sharing that...I would say that's applicable to three years & beyond, but everyone's different. It's so true, this is an ongoing process there isn't a time limit, or a "should be" where we meet someone else's expectation for us, there is only myself living my life and figuring things out, little by little.

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Mary,

Thank you for sharing that...I would say that's applicable to three years & beyond, but everyone's different. It's so true, this is an ongoing process there isn't a time limit, or a "should be" where we meet someone else's expectation for us, there is only myself living my life and figuring things out, little by little.

Kay, I agree...it is appropriate for anyone depending on the person. Today I had coffee with my friend, Douglas. He is the minister at the local Lutheran Church where we had Bill's funeral and he is a psychoanalyst. We share equally and enjoy our time together usually at the General Store about every 4-6 weeks. I told him today about the article and in fact, gave him copies of both versions. He relates to depleted so we are on common ground. I enjoy sharing with a man once in a while as I hang out mostly with women for sure. And we have a nice friendship. I am quite a bit older than he is but it does not seem to matter as we both share our journeys.

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  • 5 weeks later...

In about a week it will be our wedding anniversary - would have been married 31 years had he lived. A month later will mark the three year anniversary of his death.

I'm having one of those days where the grief just strikes out of nowhere - suddenly hits you in the gut. I haven't cried for months, at least not much, but today the tears are flowing.

I just have this longing to talk with him.

This is such an exhausting journey.

Melina

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Oh, Melina, I do know this "getting struck" by grief. We know it is always there but times like anniversaries (ours was yesterday) tend to shine a light on the pain with all its deep sorrow... showing us all it pieces and memories almost as if our loss happened yesterday. And yes, strikes out of nowhere other times also. We will never be the same...we now know that and yes it is exhausting...one has to walk this path to comprehend the exhaustion. Know that I walk with you and share the longing...and the pain. I do think that sobbing, weeping, wailing helps me...though I rarely wail anymore. I think it cleanses and lightens me a bit...it is cathartic for me and it feels like though I rarely have a day without tears for a minute or an hour...or more sometimes....I always feel better after a good cry so I do not fight them...I welcome them as healers to my pain. Peace to your heart these days and always, mary

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Melina,

I know it hits every so often. Sad and exhausting indeed. Having this happening to me, reminds me how all of us have to endure such anguish.

I know now after spending two anniversaries without her, that I can see them coming and fear what I will feel.

I will be thinking of you next week and hope you can find some time to feel happiness as well.

Stephen

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