Same Old Story Of Grief And Failed Relationship :-(

[Pollara]

Oh mine doesn't replies either. lol. Or to be more specific he would replied when he feels like it or come the next day with an excuse. So in the end what I did was to say him, I don't want to be a burden at you with my messages and texts so contact me whenever you feel like it. It's not like I am not thinking at you or anything but I don't want to be burden so contact me whenever you want. And then I never initialized the contact. And since then he is coming with his strange messages every once in a while. Maybe you should do the same Helena if he answers in some days. If not, then just don't contact him again. I know it is difficult, but I think that you show your interest by contacting him. Why to do it again? Well at least that is my opinion. And in their mind even an sms could be translated to pressure. But he wanted you to wait, as it seemed from his letter.

Plum yes he replied like that because it is the most rational thing to do and because i think he cares about you and it is not that he stoped loving you. But he just doesn't have it in him to be engaged in a relationship. I really cannot understand it myself how this happens, I mean to only have energy for your friends but it seems that it happens.

[plum]

yeah I know he still cares, but he doesn't even tell me he loves me anymore. so maybe some part of him has stopped loving me? I dunno. It certainly feels like it some days. Maybe he is incapable of loving anyone right now. I'm sure he still loves his family thou. like I said before if something like that happened to me, I think I would make a point of telling ppl i cared about and loved them that I love them whenever I can and treasure them more.

[kayc]

Plum,

I don't think it's that they don't love us anymore, but that they have nothing in them to give, no energy, no ability to think, can't make decisions, etc. They feel the need to withdraw from the world, from anything that requires something of them. Yes, most can still be with their friends or even take a holiday, they can work around their house, or maybe even perform their duties at work, but anything that requires emotional response from them...el zippo.

[plum]

Oh ok, I see, thanks for explaining that kayc. I do try and think that whatever I'm feeling he must be feeling million times worse but sometimes u do want to be selfish and just wallow in ur own feelings.

Kayc do you think I should tell him that I love him when I say goodnite? That used to be our ritual. I guess part of me wants him to know that someone is thinking of him and loves him, but not sure if he will just intepret it as pressure? But then the other side of me also worries that if I don't tell him that I love him, and he doesn't hear from me then maybe he will just think 'Well, she must have gotten sick of waiting around, and has gone off with her life'

He normally says 'me too' back, but hasn't this week but I can sense that he is finding this week rather rough.

I guess it's bit tricky for me, as we do have a complicated past, and he feels like I kind of bailed on him before. So I feel like I need to reassure and convince him that it won't be like that this time around.... What do u guys think?

[Pollara]

Well I read in another forum about a girl that her guy came back 3,5 months after he break up with her. She told him ok take your time and I will be here you know where to find me. And then she cut contact. And 3,5 later the guy returned and thank her for not calling him and didn't make him feel guilty.

To be honest in the begining I was thinking the same. But then I saw that when I told to my guy that I missed him he stopped replying while he was usually the one that he sayed that first. I did it 3-4 times and i saw that he doesn't replied to this. So I stopped doing it cause I thought that he probably find it pressuring, meaning that he doesn't feels like that so he doesn't want to say it or hear it. In my mind I made this parallelism when someone tells me that he love me, and while I really like him and I am excited with him it is too early to say something like that so I don't answer back and I would prefer for the other one not to tell me something like that. Not that I will break up with him but I find it a little pushy in an essence.

[kayc]

I think this is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations. It could very well be that he takes it as pressure so your absence of saying it may make him relax a bit. After they pull back as they do, I would think it would behoove them to do a little pursuing should they want things to resume at some point, but then that could leave us waiting forever too. JS.

The girl in the other forum was wise and patient. If only we could have been given a roadmap in the beginning and known what was going on and how best to respond...but even then it might not have ended up the same as her. Jim STILL gives me mixed messages! I figure he's just not in a place where he can be in a relationship and let it go at that. I don't think we should have to work this hard at it indefinitely, I mean this is beyond ridiculous. I can see for a few months, but years later I'm no further than I was when he resumed contact. I've had to accept that it's friendship or nothing.

[Pollara]

Well you can do it let's say in a non pushing way. I told my guy before: look my feelings for you haven't change at all, but I know that this period is difficult for you and thus I leave all the communication to you. Don't think that something change on my behalf. I thought that this was the easiest way to tell him that I am still in love with him and don't think that my absence is because I stopped thinking of him and at the same time I gave him the space and time to grief and if he feels like contacting me he can do it. Well I couldn't come up with any other way not to have contact but let him know that I still care.

[kayc]

You're right, and hopefully they'll take the space they need w/o cutting off all ties like mine did.

[plum]

Hmm yeah I understand what u guys are saying. I feel like everyday this is dragging on that maybe my feelings will change slowly. maybe part of the reason I say it because I kind of want to reconfirm it to myself. some days I feel like he may as well be a stranger as I don't feel emotional connection to him. Days like today I think if i was to never hear from him again I'll be ok. As much as I try and understand that he is going thru a tough time, u just don't treat ppl u love like crap.

[kayc]

It's like they emotionally shut down. They aren't intending to hurt us, but they just shut off, can't deal with it.

[Pollara]

Well Plum some days I am also thinking that if this continue in the end even if he comes back and wants us to be together I might have already forgotten it and I will be the one that will say no. And it is like I am pushing myself to stay in my current condition in order to stay together. And it is funny because the odds are against me. Am I masochist that I don't want myself to be happy?

There is a romantic comedy which called the break-up (OK it isn't a cinema masterpiece) but it has a points that applies to me. OK if you haven't seen the movie I am going to spoil it but anyway: there is a couple that break ups but in the end the protagonist returns and she tells him no. Because she says she felt so sad about it and now she cannot see herself giving something more to this relationship. I had also seen another movie where the parents have divorced and after many years they decided to get back together and their children told them that they don't want that after all they had been through.

Well I think that this works to me. Back in my 20s I was with a guy for 2 years and he broke up with me for a lame reason. I was devastated for months and then he returned with all the "sorry"and "I missed you"and "it was my fault" that I wanted to hear when I was trying to forget him. Although I was single at that time, I really had spent all my energy to cry and "grieving" over this fact that I had already accept it and take it as granted that I couldn't imagine myself with that guy again.

So there are days that I am doing pretty fine and when I realize that is like I say to myself, no no you are not fine. If you keep on like that you will forget him and when he comes back you are not going to want him anymore.

[plum]

hello everyone,

no new updates, just pottering along with things.

He received my book that I sent, I did warn him few days ago that I had sent him something and not to take it the wrong way or take it as pressure.

He said it feels too soon to try and read it so I said whenever u feel ready.

He says he's going ok, about the same. Nothing new. I've noticed he doesn't say love u any more. I asked him why, he hasnt yet replied.

I kinda feel very detached from the whole thing currently. Not sure if it means I'm slowly falling out of love with him or wotever. Feel like he shares more on his FB than he does with me which kinda made me feel little sad but then I got over it. Currently in very non caring stage. Don't really care too much what he is upto on the wknd or anything. I do miss him but starting to feel like I don't know him anymore and that maybe I'm holding onto the past.

I read somewhere that it's only upto a stage that a relationship can last if it's one sided. I think once I stop caring that would be it. Maybe I'm getting close to that stage? I'm not sure. I'm gona wait until my holidays next month and then give it a good think in July or something. That would've been close to 3 months since his dad's passing.

Feel very under appreciated and if he is not appreciating me now what chance is there that he will suddenly appreciate me when he feels better?

I've had stressful week at work, I need someone to lean on emotionally too. Relationship is about give and take to certain extent not just give give give.

Anyway hopefully I'll have a good wknd and feel little better!

How are things with ur bf Pollara? Haven't heard from Helena for a while, I hope she is doing ok!

[Pollara]

Well my guy has already passed the third month and he is getting colder and colder towards me. He speaks to me over chat once a week with his typical dialogue routine of what am I doing, how is my work etc. I also have the same question. How can he change? Of course I don't expect him to change today or tomorrow and I have all the patience to wait and I have told him. It's just seems really strange to me to say "oh ok, now I am fine, where is Polla?". Or could it be that he will start coming back little by little as his grief starts to fade? I really cannot see how. I am still wondering if I return will he meet me? Because we don't have officially break up and when my friends ask about me he answers to them normally like nothing strange is happening between us. Like: Polla is fine, she won't come for summer. she will stay working and come in November. But I still wonder how he can stop grieving. Well he probably thinks the same.

I think that it's not that they are starting questioning the relationship itself rather they start to feel nothing else but grief. So in their grief they might say: "but I was in love with Polla until yesterday but now I don't care a lot about her. So what happened? Did I stopped loved her?". I think that most of them cannot relate their emotional shutdown to their grief and since it is the first time that they have been to such severe grief they might think that this won't end and since they feel nothing at this time there is no possibility to feel. I believe that most of them, do remembered their girlfriends when the circle of grief had finished but it was difficult to return. Firstly because the girl had probably moved on or maybe because they would have thought of their actions and be afraid to return.

Plum I sometimes have the same feeling. That I am just sticking in the good memories of my past. And to think that I am waiting more than our relationship was good (it has been 3 months since the death and we were together 2 months and we were talking for 3 months before we start dating or so). And then I say that it is the reason that we are not together now the fact that he wasn't in love with me. And I also sometimes say like I don't know him anymore because I actually don't know what he is doing. I learnt from my friends that he went on a weekend trip (didn't mention anything) or that he went out with his friends. But this is not a relationship at all. I mean even with a guy that you just met on facebook or someone that you just barely know you speak more. So I really don't know him anymore. And although there has been a month that he came to visit me, it seems like an eternity to me and the time that we were together and happy like something that happened in the distant past.

Some of my male friend went that far to even ask me if he is not thinking over sex at all. And if he is thinking over me when he satisfies himself. Well I told them that I cannot pose that kind of question to him since he doesn't even talk to me. And then they told me to send him some sexy photos of mine otherwise he doesn't care enough. Of course I won't do that kind of stuff, but I really wonder, does he think at me at those times?

[plum]

I was going thru some old emails and came across old emails we sent each other 3 yrs ago. He was such a sweet funny and loving person. Emails were full of him saying how much he misses me and loves me. Maybe the person I love has gone? I always thought ppl don't change but I'm not so sure anymore..

I feel so stuck lately... I don't want to be waiting around forever and so far it's already feeling like its going on for much longer than it has.

Somedays I'm scared that I'm going to be weak and end up settling for someone that can offer me things like marriage and kids in near future.. But deep down I think I know that I may not be truly happy... But maybe I will be, guess u never know

Feeling rather lost again.. I'm catching up with the guy I dated during our 'break' this wknd.. Just a friendly catch up. I know he still cares about me.. And he could prob offer those things...

Do u guys sometimes believe that a 'wrong person' can become mr right if the timing is right?

Somedays I feel like I'm not strong enough to see this thru and that I can't be the strong 'rock' that my guy needs

[plum]

Hey pollara. Yeah That's exactly how I feel

I guess it must be hard for u too as u guys didn't have that much time together before this happened.

But if he is telling his friends that nothing is wrong between u and him maybe that's a good sign? Maybe he still does want to be with u but not right now. Hence isn't telling ppl that u guys are going thru rough patch.

I understand what ur saying about feeling like its not a relationship. In reality i don't think both of us are in a 'proper' relationship. There is no sharing of their daily loves or feeling or emotions. They're prob not capable of this at the moment hence can't be in relationship?

I think their libido will be very diminished at times like these. I noticed dramatic decrease in his libido when his mum was sick and then with his dad. He himself said that he just doesn't feel like it. Personally I dont think it would be very high on my list of priorities either if i was in their circumstances.

If ur willing to stick it out longer than the duration of ur actually relationship wow cudos to u!

I def don't think I could've done that.

His reply to my question of why he hasn't been saying 'I love u' is that he's not feeling very lovey lately. He says not to worry and that no one else is getting it either.

[kayc]

I would think sex would be the last thing on their minds right now, but then I'm not a guy, so I don't know.

I think it's true what you said about a relationship can only survive so long one sided. We just aren't meant to live like this. We have to protect ourselves. I mean, it may sounded noble to wait around forever, but in practicality, it's not healthy for us!

[Pollara]

Well I am usually a patient person. And also I don't have marriage and children as my goal. And I am not dating if I have feelings for someone else so that is why I am waiting. If I see in the next months that I want to date or at least trying then I will stop waiting.

I think the reason he doesn't say to his friends that something is wrong between us is because he is not in the mood. Think that he doesn't want to speak to me. How can he explain if someone asks him more? So he is playing it on the safe side. If he says that I am ok and I am not coming now, noone will ask him more. Otherwise he should go and answer questions to friends that he still doesn't know how to answer himself. That is the only reason I think.

Well I don't know Plum but in my opinion no Mr Wrong can become Mr Perfect. I think that you should decide whether you want to wait or not and then start dating. otherwise your heart will always be in this guy and you will always have this doubt in your heart. Of course in the end you will know that you did what most girls wouldn't have done and that you did your best. And it is natural since you want to make a family not to wait. But I think two months since the death is just too little of a time for someone to heal. I believe that it takes 6 months the minimum for someone to accept it and at least starts to trying being normal with the world.

Oh btw i avoid reading emails and mails that we have exchanged because I am getting more sad and I am thinking of a totally different person.

Oh and what did exactly mean that noone gets it either? that his friends cannot understand it or something?

[plum]

U guys both have valid points.

I know I'm not ready to date yet thou. I feel like i don't have the energy to invest emotionally on someone else as its all taken up with him.

Yes I do need let to completely before I move on as I didn't last time and I had doubts about any new relationship as I had him in my mind still.

I agree it hasn't been that long at all and lately I've been thinking maybe I'll wait til October which is my birthday and I turn 30! Very big deal for me!

But then again part of me doesn't want to have to start over when I'm 30, and feel like I need to do it sooner. Constant conflict!

What he meant by no one else gets it is that he says I love u before he sleeps to his parents before he goes to bed. (it used to be to me) and he is saying that he isn't saying it to anyone else either. I think that was his way of saying its not because I stopped loving u or have fallen in love wirh someone else but I feel incapable of lovin anyone but my parents currently.

I think anyway?

[plum]

I think I've reached my point now.. Had a fight with him tonite.. I was trying to explain to him that it's really hurtful how he is cutting me out of his life. I said that I feel like he can just hurt me and doesn't even care.

And how he can go out with friends etc yet seems perfectly ok if we were never to have contact.

Anyway he got angry and didnt even try and really understand where I was coming from.

I understand he is under enormous amount of pressure.

I think I have to let him be for my own sanity. I don't like this insecure paranoid person I'm becoming.

So no contact starts from now for me. I wonder if he is actually gona find it to be a relief.

Gotta let it go before it gets destroyed any further I think...

I don't want to cry anymore over this. I'm emotionally exhausted too and currently I feel like I need space to stop getting hurt.

I wonder how long I can last for!! Fingers crossed I stay strong this time

[kayc]

Okay, go back over the list of pointers I posted a while back.

Stay strong.

Forgive him because it is as you said in the post before.

Understand that this is all just too much for you and beyond what someone should expect from us, and be understanding of yourself and your needs.

(((hugs)))

[Pollara]

Once KayC wrote that the no contact serves for us to secure all that is left in our heart for them. And I agree. If you go on like this Plum he will keep on behaving like that and in the end you will only have bitter memories. It's the same for me concerning my previous ex. Although we were together for 2 years, because our relationship in the end was only fights and fights I really have bitter memories of him and I don't even want to talk to him. OK If I see him randomly on the road, I will talk to him, but i don't feel like keeping contact with him. And it is funny because my friends remember me happy back then, but I really cannot remember the happy moments with him, to the point that I sometimes say to myself: "Oh God Polla, you lost 2 years of your life with him". So yes at least if you stop talking to him right now, you will protect the love you shared and maybe when he feels better and you are still available you can see it again. I hope you manage the no contact. Find a friend of yours and tell her that whenever you feel like contact him, you will contact her instead. I think the first days are difficult or maybe when you will feel lonely and you want to contact him. But honestly I believe that you cannot earn something at this point. Ι never had problem to manage the no contact. But I think it is on my character. Even when I call someone (friend or for some job) if he doesn't answer I don't call him back. I always believe that if the other needs to contact you he will. Realistically speaking you have already done enough and think that most of the girls would have already dumped him. At least my friends tell me that they are wondering how I can be so patient and that they would have dumped him after his visit here. I really believe that you did more than enough but let him be. In most of the cases that the guy returned were the no contact ones. If you keep on like that he will feel pressured and he will initiate the break up at some point because he doesn't have it in him right now and he will say something like the one that I told you the other days. Think that he cannot understand why you feel like that. So I hope the best for you Plum and whenever you feel like talking to him, come here and you will try to make you reasonable again

I don't know what kind of guy is your guy, but some psychologists suggest that guys like the independent women. The one that they can survive on their own when they are not around. OK I know that this is not always the case because they are guys that like to be overprotective, but I believe at this point you should show him that you are independent and that you can manage on your own and not cling to him. Although my bf told me that he knows that his behavior towards me is awful, I told him don't think like that because your problems are bigger right now. I told him that, because since he knows that his behavior is awful, if I agree on it, he will feel even guiltier and then more sad and it isn't on me to make other people sad even if they are the ones that make me

[kayc]

I have heard that too but then I've also been told that guys are intimidated by me (and Jim affirmed that). Whatever. I am who I am and they can like me...or not, I don't really care one way or another. But it wasn't always that way...

However, if we come across as needy, which sometimes they misinterpret our hanging in there as such, it's a turn-off for them. Like the more we give, the less they respect us. And they say women are complicated! Ha!

[plum]

Thanks guys!

He texted today after he finished work saying work was busy and that he is going to exercise.

Think there still is some of that old him I know who actually takes in what makes me upset.

(I told him that he should let me know little trivial things like work being really busy or him not using his phone much to reply to msgs) because then I know that he is busy rather than just thinking that he is busy messaging everyone but me.

And how lack of communication leads to misunderstanding and me getting overly sensitive.

In the meantime I will continue to keep things light and try to continue to be the independent woman that he knows me to be.

[plum]

Ps Replying to msgs that they send isn't breaking the NC rule right?

[Pollara]

I guess no, since you didn't initiate the contact. But it is good that he contacted you. he probably understood that his behavior is not the best (actually nowhere near enough good). It is going to be a really long summer for all of us but I hope things will get better for everyone and be patient.

I hope Helena is doing better