Should I Stay Or Should I Go?

[Pollara]

Hello there!

I am here to take your piece of advice although I know how things go, I probably am in the phase of still hoping but I guess there is no luck with me. In any case my story:

I met my boyfriend last September before I left my country in order to go to another place to work for some time. We are both at our 30s. We kept contact through MSN and then when I got back to my country for christmas holidays we started dating. He is not the type who had a lot of girlfriends and same goes for me. We are both very picky (OK I know that this is a tiny detail). At that time he thought of me as hir rock and said that I have helped him a lot, because his mother was battling with cancer a lot of years now, but since this was the 4th metastasis he knew that things wouldn't got well. I should also mention the fact that his parents had divorced a lot of years now, but he and his sister are on good terms with father. In any case, after Christmas I left to go back to my work in my country and we started a long distance relationship with the usual MSN, chating and phone call routine. And in general we were both very happy. Then at the end of February his mother passed away and he asked me for some time to deal with the fact which of course I gave him. The irony is that, as I was searching to find to send him something to comfort him I came along this forum by chance and I told, oh this doesn't happening. This won't happen to me. How stupid I was. Then after talking with my psychologists friends, they told me that this can happen, but not to worry, since in the end, when his depression will finish, he will return.But I should show understanding since he might not have the energy to devote to our relationship right now. Luckily, one week after he returned to his usual MSN and calling routine so I thought that the worst have passed. How stupid I was for second time. Then after 3 weeks he started to reduced the ammount of phone calls and MSN messages to 1 every 3 days and only at a typical level: how are you?I am going to buy food and then left. But he was planing to come and see me at my country so I was waiting for it. And then 2 weeks ago, he actually came. And I was really happy. But then I saw that his depression had taken over. He was really distant, wasn't very intimate, even the way he kissed and hug me were different. I don't know if it was the right thing, but before that I was planing to go on summer holiday in order to be with him, so I asked him, do u really want to come at summer?And he told me that he honestly doesn't know. That after his mother's death he was ok for 3 weeks but then he started to get bored over everything including me, so I should do what is best for me and not thinking about him. In the end he left and told me that he had a very good time and that we will talk when he returns. After that we spoke only one per 3 days and very typical, he didn't send me kisses as he used to and it was more on a friendly level. I guess the time to break up with me is approaching. So do you think I should go there for holidays or let it go, because I would be an extra pressure to him? I was thinking of telling him something among these lines: that I know that you don't have the energy to deal with me now and I understand it, so if you want we just put everything in pause, you can talk to me whenever you want, and we can see things over us again when I will return to our country (my contract expires on November). What do you think? Is there any light on the tunnel? Yes I also am aware of the fact that we were only dating for 2 months before the incident of his mother and the one of them was in the LDR while the oher 2 I was away.

And this is what I think about most of the cases that I read (and not only mine) that in the end, there might be some other problems in the relationship or the other person, just didn't wanted as much as he/she thought. Because in the end, most people turned to their significant others at times like this. So, I strongly believe that they chose to shut us out, not only because grief is a personal process etc, but because they didn't loved as strong as they thought to begin with.

Sorry for the long text

[plum]

Hi Pollara,

Sorry to hear of your current situation. Which you will find from here isn't that unique unfortunately.

I feel like it rings a lot of bells for me, being in long distance and all.

I say don't go. I had similar situation. in the end despite knowing that I had booked flights to go see him for his b'day when pushed (as I had to let work know if I needed days off or not) he said i shouldn't come.

I don't think u going will help the situation in any way and may just hasten the inevitable.

Currently I feel like by putting us on a 'break' that i'm just delaying the inevitable. Do I have hopes for my relationship to work out? No not really. and We have lot of memeories and good times together.

I'm slow accepting the fact that maybe this is it. And trying to imagine my future without him.

Yeah I've been thinking maybe he just doesn't love me enough. And it makes things little easier actually. If he is willing to let go of me and the relationship after all that we have been together maybe his love for me just wasn't strong enuf. I guess I'll never know not being in his shoes.

I'm sorry which I could say more positive things...

[Pollara]

Yes I keep reading again and again the "unsuccessful" stories posts and try to figure out what did they do wrong. As a strategist, I always believed that you can achieve everything if you have the right tactic. And this is what it strikes me worst. That they didn't do something wrong. I sometimes wonder, was it wrong the fact that everyone accepts the fact and give them some time? Could the "wrong" part be that we weren't as demanding as we should have be? In order to make them focus on other things rather than grief? How easy it would be for me to know that he is just an @ssh@le. or that he has find another girlfriend. It is this unfairness that really makes you angry

[kayc]

I don't consider our story "unsuccessful" just because we didn't resume our engagement...instead I figure it took the course it should have. I am happy being his friend. Not everyone can accept "just a friendship" after being in love, but I don't look at it like that...I value friends, friendship is good too. And I am okay being on my own.

Jim was never unfaithful to me, there was no question about that, neither of us care to date even yet. And I don't think "being more demanding" is the answer...they'd hightale it so fast your head would spin! They can't handle demands right now. To (newly) grieve is to be self-centered, how else can it be? The person has their socks knocked off of them, you expect them to think of others? It'd be nice if they could, but it just doesn't work like that, it takes time before the fog lifts and they can begin to think of others again. It takes effort to have positive focus. A grief counselor might help them. A support group might help them. But they have to acknowledge their need for help and want it, otherwise it's not likely going to happen.

As for "what did they do wrong", I think there's a better way to look at it. Sometimes it isn't what someone did "wrong", but it just is what it is. Why affix blame? Does it make you feel better? That it's "his fault" or that someone else must not have handled things right? There is so much to learn about grieving...it's complicated, believe me, I've been learning about it for nearly eight years now since my husband died...hence the 6,000+ posts by my avitar, but I do not consider myself an expert by any means. The one thing I have learned is that everyone's situation is unique, everyone handles it differently, and that doesn't make it right or wrong, but just "their way".

This is one of those things that doesn't fit a formula....you can't say "if this, then that" and apply it. Nope, it doesn't work like that. There AREN'T guaranteed results! You can't control it the way you might the rest of your life! It is a learning experience, a journey.

And yes it's unfair. Life is unfair. Loss is unfair. Not getting what you feel you deserve is unfair. Is it fair that they lost their loved one? Is it fair that they experience confusion? And it's no more fair that we experience loss of them and our relationship. But like it or not, it is our lot to accept and do what is best for ourselves, to move on and make our life more tolerable for ourselves, to consider ourselves first and foremost. You can only be in a love relationship indefinitely when BOTH of you are givers...if one person does all taking, after a while the well goes dry. It can only go on so long. That's why "taking a breather" can only be for a set time. We might be the most understanding person in the world, but we're human too.

I can't tell you whether you should acknowledge his birthday or not, only you can decide that. If you had a GF that lost their parent and had pulled back from you in her grief, and it was her bdy, what would you do? I would not wish him a HB though if I could not do it heart felt and freely. If I felt resentment or expected something in return, I would refrain from doing it at all. But that's just me, you decide best for you.

I am sorry you are going through this, it sucks, it's something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

[Pollara]

Thanks Kay! But I actually didn't mentioned anything about his birthday. I think it was Plum in another post who was mentioning her boyfriend's birthday. My initial question was what would be better, go there at summer or not. Would it be for better or for worse? Well I guess it would be the same, since I believe that he had make his decision on breaking up with me, but I wonder why he doesn't tell it to me. Is he waiting for me, to even do this?

[kayc]

Plum did in her response to you in this thread and in another.

I don't know if he's waiting for you to issue the finality or not, but I think it doesn't matter who says it first, but make this about YOU, and what YOU can/can't live with.

[Pollara]

Yes I agree. Still working on it. But since he doesn't speak to me these days, I guess I will have to mention something next time we speak. If there is a next time. I think that, what I cannot forgive is that although he knew that I had personal problems and that I was waiting for him wholeheartedly, he came here to test his feelings. To see if he is still bored with me. Of course he didn't tell me something like that, but I cannot find any other reason why he came since he was bored to begin with. So he wanted to have the privileges and didn't think of my emotions. Honestly it would be better to just tell me, I am bored I won't come than coming and trying to see what happens. Well for me it would be the same whether I stay here or go to my country for summer holidays, otherwise I would have already made my choise according to my needs. Well it is still the begining. I know how it goes and I know that eventually I will accept it and I will not even hold any grudge at him or something. And that we will probably stay at friendly terms. I am still at the denial phase, but gradually everything will be solved. And at the end of the day, if it is meant to be together sometime, then who knows?

[kayc]

I agree. I don't know that it's boredom, but just grief. I can't explain it but I know when you're grieving, everything is about you, how you're feeling, what happened to you, etc. I'm so fortunate to have had my sisters and kids, even though they weren't close by, they loved me through it all, whereas the friends vanished and rather quickly, I might add.

I doubt if he's given much thought to your feelings because right now it's all about him and what he's going through and feeling. Jim yanked my emotional heartstrings all over the place until I called a halt to it by determining never to cry over him again and putting a wall of protection around my heart. I even talked to him about it later and told him I wasn't going to let him do that to me again. My George never would have done this to me, he loved me and always put me first, he cared about my feelings. Such a night and day difference! I can say that how Jim broke up with me was not love...I've had love, and that's not it! I can't judge them all, I don't know everyone or all about their situations, but I know the "love" Jim had for me was sorely lacking. Fine for a friend, not for a husband that you need to be able to count on. Nope...better off "friends".

[Pollara]

well in his opinion he cannot understand that he is grieving. he says that he is just bored of everything. That it is not sadness what he is feeling but boredom. Of course I know it is grief, but it seems that he doesn't know it. At least he knows that it is related to his mother's death but still trying to figure out if his boredom is permanent or temporary. But these things take some time to heal. So, I believe that his boredom (or at least he thinks as boredom) will continue and then he will think that his boredom is permanent/

On the other hand you are right about love and I agree. In my case it wasn't certainly love to begin with. Since we were only together for 2 months when the incident happened. Of course he wouldn't be in love with me at this early phase of the relationship. I guess if we were more time together, things might have taken a different route, or even if I were there. But unluckily I cannot change the given situation. It is easy for him to put me in the distance since he didn't know me very well to begin with, but it is more difficult for me, because our relationship had just started.

On the other hand I wonder, let's say for example that he passes through this phace and he is ok after some months. How can he remember me? I mean, it strikes to me us imposible to remember me after so many months and to say, oh I remember Polla, she was my girlfriend back then, let's contact her. I mean, even if I don't hold any grudge against him and let's say for example that I am still single and willingful to give him a second chance, I cannot seeing how could he remember me.

[kayc]

If you would remember him, why would he not remember you?

[Pollara]

If you would remember him, why would he not remember you?

Because I didn't have anything in mind to be devoured by. I mean now he is in his own bubble with his thoughts, while my thoughts are mainly on him and then my career, but my focus let's say is on him, while he is thinking everything else than me.

[Helena_d9]

I think that yes his main focus will be on what he is going through and it will be consuming him but i think if you had a happy relationship then you are there in his thoughts, especially when he feels he can open up.

Don't put yourself down too much Pollara. I know you probably don't think you are but it is reading like you are. He is going through a horrible thing that i can't imagine dealing with but you turn to the people who care about you and you ask for their help, you don't shut them out. He is allowed to be selfish for a little while but overall he is being selfish.

You deserve to be someone's everything and to be the person they turn to...basically their number one.

x

[kayc]

I agree. And of course he'll remember and think of you. Jim thought of me when he was apart from me, his daughter said he was always checking my FB page...yet he made no contact. I guess he just didn't know what to say or couldn't deal with the emotions of being in contact with me. But did he forget me? No, not for a day. He was exhausted, confused, upset, everything. I wish he could have had the strength to have included me in what he was going through and let me be there for him, but that was his choice and in the end I have to respect his wishes while continuing with my life as best as I can.

[Pollara]

well who knows! I am really pesimist. I think that he will think that life is too short to spend it in a long distance relationship (although I will return back to my country in autumn). I believe that when I will announce him my decision (on whether to return for summer or not) he will tell me to break up either way. I think that he just waits for my decision, in order not to infuence me and make a hasty decision based on him.

I don't know, maybe later (at his anger stage) he will put the blame on me, that I wasn't there to comfort him, although he was the one who told me to decide what is better for me. Maybe also I remind him of his mother, because he met me when his mother was terminally ill and maybe he had made a connection like that to his mind. That a lot of times he neglected her to be with me (he didn't actually neglected her, but I guess in the guilt stage you might feel like that). But, since I really don't know what he is thinking and because he doesn't want to tell me, I should just do what he told me: what is better for myself. But from his reactions and actions in general, isn't it obvious that he wants to break up with me but he just doesn't want to do it himself and he chooses that route (of not talking to me or talking to me at a typical way).

At the end of the day, I cannot blame him for not loving me so much or not be the person he wanted to turn out to. We were together for only two months. At that time he thought of me as a great support, because he thought that this situation is the worst and when his mother dies it wil be in a way better because she will rest (he had told me that). But it seems that no matter how ready you are, grief strikes you (although it wasn't the case with my mother but it's different for anyone).
Sometimes although my pesimist I am thinking of Helena who tries to be optimist and say to myself: no nothing is over. your break up is temporary. You will return in autumn and he will be better and there might be a chance of getting back together. But when I am thinking about it, I become pesimist again by saying, no in the end, you will be just friendzoned. I know that he won't cut contact with me at all, even after breaking up, but we will remain friends. At this level is not what I want. Maybe at some point later when I will have forget him as a lover. But on the other hand I cannot say, why life is so unfair and he didn't turned out to me. Imagine how horrible he should feel that his mother passed at a young age

[kayc]

You may be right about the guilt part...Jim may feel that way too since he used to come to my place every weekend, but then he could have seen his mom any time he wanted, he just didn't know things were going to go the way they did, none of us ever does.

[Pollara]

My boyfriend called me today to ask me what I am going to do in summer so I told him that I will staying here for summer and return in Autumn and I told him that this might be better since he seems to stay alone for a while and he told me that is a good thing. Of course he didn't tell him to break up or something, but it seems like a break up to me. I doubt he has the courrage to do it right now. If he wants he can find me. And after telling all that I wanted him to tell, I feel better now. He knows how I feel, that I can be patient if this is what needed but then I am keeping on with my plan of no contact.

[kayc]

I think you're doing the right thing. I know it's hard, yes it takes a great deal of resolve to do what's best even when you feel the opposite inside. Perhaps he will miss you during this time apart...just understand it can take a great deal of time for them to come to their senses. And by that time, you may feel totally different.

Jim has called me ten times this week. He's talked about coming up here. I no longer hold my breath or hope for anything, other than friendship, but I'm not afraid of seeing him either, not afraid of my feelings or falling vulnerable to him. I feel much stronger after all this time, more in charge of myself, more aware.

[Pollara]

Well I actually am really better since I told him my thoughts. I didn't say anything that could cause pressure to him, but that I see him distant and that he can take his time and then I left it open for autumn. And he told me that is the best thing. I guess to tell me to break up would be a pressure to him so he didn't tell me anything. But I was much worse when I wanted to tell him all the things that I observe so now I am really better.

As for you KayC from what I see, I believe that Jim is still interested in you and not only in a friendly manner. Leaving aside the fact that you cannot trust him anymore, for what I have read here and in your other posts, to me, from his side, it doesn't look like just an "innocent" friendship. But I totally understand you. For me it is easier to say that if he comes around and still want him (because it is true that if I say to myself "OVER" it really is over) I would give him a second chance, since we were only 2 months together before the incident and we never make any future plans etc.

But I guess if I were in your shoes I couldn't trust him again.

[plum]

Hi pollara.

Glad to hear that ur feeling better about things.

I guess what will be will be.

Im finding that everyday is getting easier for me so hopefully u will find it easier too as time goes.

Im keeping myself busy and I'm making new plans for the future which is exciting and scary at the same time. I no longer have any expectation or hope for reconciliation.

life is too short to be with someone that doesn't wanna be with me I've decided.

[Pollara]

It is as you said Plum. At the end of the day,you might be together sometime. Who knows. You did your best and maybe now it is hard ot know that it wasn't your fault,when you pass through all these, you will feel better, that at least you did your best. He didn't appreciated at that time, but that is just his fault.

Same goes for me. On the one hand it is hard for me to think that we hadn't even fought once. On the other hand, it is fun to hear our common friends be optimistic and tell me that when I will return everything will be back to normal and that we cannot end like that because he is not that type of guy etc. I guess they cannot understand that some people are grieving in a different way.

[kayc]

I think Jim is messed up and maybe doesn't know what he wants or doesn't act on it...whatever, that's his place to figure out, not mine. I would have so many requirements in order to give a go at this relationship that in all honesty, I can't picture him going for it. So I don't go there, don't hope, don't encourage it, don't anything. I'm truly feeling that being on my own is better. But I do like him and can't see throwing a perfectly good friendship away. He's the sort of person that stays paralyzed in something rather than doing anything about it so I don't see anything ever changing. It could go on like this the next 20 years. That's okay by me, I'm not dating, neither is he, so no one to be bothered by our continued communication.

You are right, Pollara, people do grieve differently. I think at the end of the day we must do what's best for ourselves and let the other person decide for themselves and respect each other's wishes.

[Pollara]

I agree. I am so at peace now because I told him what I wanted to. And it wasn't something on the pushing side like make a decision now etc. I was never the kind of woman that pushed things and to be honest sometimes in the past I regreted about my passiveness. I always thought that Ι never claimed things as much as I wanted. But well at this specific case this inability of mine it might be useful. The no contact doesn't only serves as a "tactic" for him but also for me. The "out of sight, out of mind" works with me (at least it worked great in the past). In the end, I wanted to treat him like a friend but he treats me as like nothing more than a simple acquaintance. ( I don't know it it is the right word. I mean a person he just knows)
what I did was to tell him my thought and that if he wants to break up with me in order not to be a pressure to him, I fully understand it and it is ok by me, since he chose to pass this himself. But he didn't mention anything about breaking up. I guess he doesn't want to make a rush decision himself, that he might regret it later. So at the end of the day, maybe when I return to my country I won't be in love with him anymore, but people decide on their future based on their actions. I gave him the time and space to think that the most women I know wouldn't do that. I repsected his grief and didn't push him on taking any decision, but if at the end don't recognise the efforts I did in order to be together well that is his fault. I deserve better if that happens.

[plum]

Hi Pollara.

Yes I agree! Out of sight out of mind!

I think it's great that ur doing what feels right for u.

I guess we will never understand exactly what they're thinking so instead of trying to second guess and figure them out, (which we will never be able to do as we're not them) just do what u want to do.

I've been reading a bit about how men and women cope differently with stress and men really are unable to multi task. They can only focus on one thing at a time (grieving) and are unable to even entertain any other thoughts at the same time (such as being in r/s)

They just go into their cave and hide out whereas girls are more likely to talk about their feelings etc.

So let him be a caveman for a while. No one will be able to drag them out of it until they're willing to walk out of the cave themselves

[Pollara]

yes Plum. It is also mentioned in the book: "men are from mars women are from venus" that usually men want to copy stress themselves, but to be honest I don't know a lot of greiving men personally that distant their girlfriends. So to me, this is somthing completely new that I learn through this forum and by personal experience.

Well for me what I believe is that even if he decide not to be with me at the very end, he cares for me. Although we had a short term relationship and mostly long distance, I don't think he didn't meant what he was saying and doing. I also believe that if we were together in the same country things might have been different. He might have not the chance to distant himself while now has a lot of time to think about it. But I think that in the very end the outcome would be the same. I mean that if he now decides that he doesn't want to be in a r/s, he would have decided the same even if I were there but maybe with a time delay. But then it might be worse for both of us.

when I hear all my friends say that he doesn't want you, he doesn't care for you, he probably have found another girl, call me idiot, but I don't believe that is the case. If he doesn't have the ammount of energy to deal with me, I don't believe he will find it to put an effort in a new r/s and he is not the one night stand guy. The only thing that I am afraid is that maybe when he decide to come out of his cage, he will meet another girl at this transitional stage and choose her. But when I hear all these friends of mine and see them unable to comprehend his grief, I become optimist and say: well if it was for another girl she would have already dump him. I didn't. So if he cannot see what a perfect girl for him I was, then he is the one that lost

[plum]

Hi pollara

I'm with u 100% and I think ur friends who r saying that maybe he has met another girl do not understand the situation at all.

I think going into relationship with someone new at this stage would be the last thing he wants! Why would he wanna date someone new if he can't even manage to keep a nice happy relationship going?

If u were in the same place then yes maybe it would've been harder for him to distant himself from u. But then again I think it would've made it harder for u too. Ur lives will be so interlinked that the rejection and shutting out will feel even worse.

At least with all of us being in long distance, we still have our normal lives that we can continue while we're in this phase however imagine what it would've been like if we didn't have separate lives from them. Think all of us would've been in bit of a mess!