Should I Stay Or Should I Go?

[Pollara]

Haha actually this is my motto!

That we should do whatever make us happy. Although I am a person that usually thinks everything, in the latest year I "discovered" that until now I did everything with logic and then I ended up to do things that they were logical and make me unhappy.

For example, I wanted to go to my country for holidays even if this was a breaking up. But I didn't because I followed my logic. And now I keep wondering and say why didn't I do what I wanted to?

In the past also in my career, I chose what was more logical and in the end I was just unhappy in my environment.

After all this looking to my past I ended up that I should whatever makes me happy even if it is not what is defined as "right". I don't want to have regrets.

Being friendzoned is more to that I am not ready yet to see him in a totally friendly way as my previous ex. If I still have some kind of feelings, not like the same as before, but I know that I won't like to learn that for example she found another girlfriend. It's not so much about the hopes, but if it is to be there and end up just as a friend I prefer not to be at all. OK I know it is selfish but...

[kayc]

I like that!

there's 7 billion people in the world. Don't let one person ruin your day.

[Pollara]

Hello to old and new members. I will answer to the new posts after I go through them carefully.

One minor update from my ex. I decided to check up on him via chat to see how he is doing. He told me that he was going to meet a psychiatrist and that he started taking antidepresssants by himself!

I was really mad that he started pills without asking anyone and I asked him why chose a psychiatrist. His problem is grieving and he is not insane. He should have seen a counselor first. Then he told me that he doesn't believe in counselors and psychologists helps and it was the first time that he told me what he is going through all this time. He told me that he didn't expect it to feel that awful and that he is in total mess and that he hopes with the antidepressants to get better and that he will listen to psychiatrist.

What do you think? I am pretty positive that his psychiatrist will definitely give him pills (they are famous for giving pills like candies), but I don't know whether this is really going to solve his problem. His problem is that he has depression related to grief and he needs to focus on it. In my humble opinion avoiding this cannot lead to anywhere. I don't know but I have heard that people who take antidepressants are feeling like zombies and they don't have emotions at all. I don't know if it is true because i don't take. But if he keeps on like that I think that he will lose half of his life being a zombie and not only with me, but he won't be with any girl in the near future.

I sent him a text today what happened with the psychiatrist but he didn't reply.

Well I guess after all, he doesn't want to have much contact in me, but I really stopped caring whether I am pressuring to him or not. He cannot broke up with me anymore but I don't think he wants me out of his life (I mean he is friends with all of his exes except the previous one). So I just did what I would have done if a friend of mine had been through the same situation. Well of course he knows where to find me and stuff but I just wanted to show that I am really interested about his well being

[kayc]

Pollara,

Going to a psychiatrist when he is grieving is like seeing a surgeon when you have a rash. He needs to see the one who specializes in grief/loss, and that would be a Grief Counselor. To say you "don't believe in them" is like dismissing a legitimate solution without trying it. His loss.

Antidepressants vary...some can leave a person numb and devoid of feeling, but others do not, they just uplift you a bit and take the edge off so you can better cope. It's all about finding the right one for the individual. The problem is, some doctors tend to prescribe certain medications, regardless if they are the right one for the person or not. I would first try to cope naturally by seeing a Grief Counselor and doing my grief work before using a last resort method such as taking pills. This is circumstantial, not hormonal, that's why I didn't take antidepressants when my husband died and I felt out of my mind with grief. What is the pill going to do? It couldn't bring my husband back! It was ME who needed to learn to cope with the alterations in my life.

I tend to be like you and speak my mind and feel that is what friends are for. Hopefully he'll understand you mean it for his good.

[MartyT]

Sometimes an indirect approach is helpful, Pollara. I invite you to read this article, and share it with your ex ~ if you think he would read it. The trouble is that no matter how "right" you think you are, you cannot force another person to see things from your perspective. All you can do is offer the information ~ the rest is up to him.

Here is the article: Seeing a Specialist in Grief Counseling: Does It Matter? (See also the Related Articles listed at the base of the post.)

[Pollara]

Thanks Martyr for the article. Well in the past I told him to read some articles that I have found and he didn't want. I know that I cannot force him but I just want his own good. As KayC told, to see a psychiatrist 5 months after the grief without seeing any counselor or at least simultaneously for me cannot solve anything. Until recently he didn't even want to say that he is grieving and he was trying to find excuses. Not to mention that I became really angry because he decided to start taking the pills without even going to this psychiatrist, because a friend of him proposed him. Is he stupid? No I know that he is just desperate and needs a fast solution or at least he thinks that pills is an easy solution. But the problem is grieving and nothing else at that time. The pills that he started taking himself is serafem (prozac). I don't know if they are under the same name in U.S. But what is his friend?stupid? Giving to a person that he is grieving the pills that you are taking yourself? I still cannot believe how stupid people are and the fact that at this point he thinks them more friends than me.

Edit: Marty I just read the article myself. See the problem in him that it is different from the person that wrote the article is that my ex actually thinks that this is not normal. Otherwise he wouldn't have chosen to go to the psychiatrist. He sees his sister that she is doing fine, he sees other people that have told him that after 3 months of the death they were fine so he thinks that this is not a normal procedure. No matter how much I had told him that this is natural to happen. So he just wants an easy solution.

Personally I am not trying to convince him or change his mind and if it is that the antidepressants without any other help from counselors can work I don't mind as long as he will be ok. What I am afraid of is that the antidepressants without the help of the counselor won't solve the problem. if the problem can be solve with the psychiatrist I am ok with that.

The other problem is in my country we don't have this grief counselors. Psychologists are doing this job as part of their work. We don't have specific related to grief counselors or psychologists.

[DML]

I m just going to throw this out there and see what you ladies think.. I m wondering if Pollara's guy may have deeper issues and that is why he is seeking professional help. Which leads me to wonder.. is it possible that some people who have had some sort of abuse/trauma in their younger years have this reaction when they lose someone? For example if someone was sexually abused I have read that they learned to "shut down" when the abuse was happening. So when they lose someone close, their emotions go into a type of lock down . Just think .. I have lost people and pets in my life and it was devastating but I never reacted the way our ex 's have.

Just a thought on a night where I have been thinking way too much.

[kayc]

DML, not knowing him, I have no idea.

Pollara, I think I know you well enough by now to know you are not trying to change him, you know that that is not within your power, but as a friend, you are trying to tell him what is for his own good...that is the same as I do with any friend of mine...it's up to them to take it or leave it, but I think, what kind of a friend would I be if I didn't tell them what I thought they needed to hear? I would want any true friend to do the same for me.

Anyone who gives someone Prozac, or anyone who takes it, without being under a doctor's care for it, is an idiot, point blank. It is NOT to be administered or stopped without a doctor's care and guidance. It's heavy duty stuff and it messes with your brain. If what he has is normal grief going on and not a chemical imbalance, he's just going to mess himself up worse. Like you said, he undoubtedly is looking for an easy way to feel better without having to do the grief work. I don't think there's much more you can do for him.

Pollara, interestingly enough, I'm not knowing what to make of Jim right now...he sent me a link to the Sistar song, "Crying". I asked him if he has someone in mind with it and he said lots of people, and I asked who and he named some names I hadn't heard of, then he said he was just teasing me, he made them up, and he said I'm on the list but Dietta isn't (his ex wife). Here's the words:

My days without you
I can’t focus on anything
Never, no more

Even if I regret, everything is over
I don’t even have the confidence to turn things around

You slightly come to me and slightly shake me up again
Oh no oh no, stop holding onto my heart
Only looking at you and crying seems so foolish of me
Oh no oh no, this is not love

Love – I pretend that I’m fine, that I don’t love you even though I do
I can’t express it, crying, crying

Love – I try to turn things around but you’re already gone
I’m endlessly crying, crying

I open my eyes and after coming to my senses, you’re not here
I rub my eyes and look around but you’re not here
I close my eyes again and open them but you’re still not here
I thought I’d be fine without someone like you but
I keep looking back at the memories of our give and take
Tears and memories spill out as if I’m vomiting
Everything is over
I’ll stop for you & me

You slightly come to me and slightly shake me up again
Oh no oh no, stop holding onto my heart
Only looking at you and crying seems so foolish of me
Oh no oh no, this is not love

Love – I pretend that I’m fine, that I don’t love you even though I do
I can’t express it, crying, crying

No, I’m not the me that I used to know
I know this is just a phase
But each time I breathe, I hate you

I can’t sleep all night and I try to comfort myself, saying it’s alright
But I can’t help it, I can’t turn things back, I only have regrets that are too late
So don’t cry

Love – you were different, you changed me
Now I think I know everything

No matter how much I push and shove you away
You are my everything that can’t leave me

I wanna go back
I couldn’t love anyone but you

I didn't know what to say. I would need communications, explanation, resolution, demonstration. I realize he's Asperger's and communication is difficult for him but...

[Pollara]

I m just going to throw this out there and see what you ladies think.. I m wondering if Pollara's guy may have deeper issues and that is why he is seeking professional help. Which leads me to wonder.. is it possible that some people who have had some sort of abuse/trauma in their younger years have this reaction when they lose someone? For example if someone was sexually abused I have read that they learned to "shut down" when the abuse was happening. So when they lose someone close, their emotions go into a type of lock down . Just think .. I have lost people and pets in my life and it was devastating but I never reacted the way our ex 's have.

Just a thought on a night where I have been thinking way too much.

Well no, this is not the case when it comes to grief. And this is not a conclusion that I came to myself. My friend who is psychologist and had seen a lot of grieving people she told me that 1 out of 5 turns to have what it is called complicated grieving and that they get depressed for a longer period. This doesn't depend on previous trauma or whether a person is strong or not (as a character). Because she even had cases where people really strong as characters who had endured a lot, they got devastated after the loss. Of course every case is different. For instance she told me that there was a woman really admirable and strong that she had endured a lot (like her one illness before, previous loses etc) and when she lost her father she got depressed, because it was like she couldn't hold everything anymore.

Your girlfriend's case looks different.

As for my ex, I am 90% sure (you can never be 100% sure) that he wasn't abused. I think that the trigger is just the loss. He grew up only with his mother and his sister. So to lose your half family for him is the worst that could have happened. As for why he is seeking medical attention it is because he searches for an easy solution. Nothing less, nothing more. Because he has studied IT, in his mind everything is numbers. He doesn't accept any other way of correct if it isn't scientifically proven. And in his mind science is only something that it is related to numbers or chemistry if you get what I mean,He doesn't want to go to a psychologist because he believes that talking to them is like talking to his friends (yes in his mind they are equal). So when he got the panic attack he was really scared and he decided to go straight on medication. he would only seek the help of a psychologist only if the psychiatrist told him so. Well he didn't reply to my text so I don't know what happened.

KayC, I believe that this is Jim's way of telling you that he wants to be together with you. Of course due to his Asperger syndrome he cannot tell it to you in a direct way so he chooses an indirect.

Why don't you ask him if he wants to be together with you or if he could have turned back the time if he would have done something different?

Of course I understand that you want more than that, but since it is so difficult for him to tell you, why don't you "help" him a little? If he admits that he wants to be together again with you then you can ask him more about then. And you can ask him on the occasion of the song

[DML]

Yeah like I said I was just throwing it out there. Everyone's case is different . KayC I agree with Pollara, sounds like he wants you back.

[kayc]

I did try to pin him down a bit but he seems to have a hard time admitting to how he feels...although he has said "I love you" and called me "Baby" (which he used to call me when we were together), he seems to make light of it at the same time, perhaps to save face or because he's unsure of how I'd respond. Honestly, I think I'd need more than I was willing to accept before, but I do still care about him...I'm just not sure he can give me more.

[Pollara]

I think that he is afraid because he knows that what he did was wrong. Well it is so strange to me that I don't know about grief, how at a time the only thing you care is your deceased one and take the chances to lose your significant other and then you realize that what you did was wrong.

Well I am usually a spontaneous person so maybe I will be more straightforward since he seems to have problems in communication.

But what do you want? Do you want to see him in person and try to talk about it? then I would have invited him. Like, since we are talking almost every day on the phone why don't you come here to visit me?or something among those lines

[kayc]

I've invited him, but he hasn't acted on it. Like I say, it's strange. But I think I'm best off not in a relationship with anyone right now.

[Pollara]

Hi guys. After almost 6 months of breaking up and one year almost after we started dating my ex rememebered me. He told me that he wanted to thank me and I was the perfect girl for him and I made him really happy and he doesn't believe that he will ever be happier with another girl, but at the same time he cannot be with me cause I remind him of his dark times. So I told him it's ok. Big passions don't last anyway and he told me: no for me it will last forever. Go figure. It was so strange because I didn't even want to refer to our relationship but he was keeping on refering on it.

Anyway, my point is that even if they go out of their grief, sometimes they make a bad connection with us and their grief.

[kayc]

So true. Jim has admitted that he still loves me but he's not tried to reconnect as anything but friends. For him, he said he knew he'd done me wrong, but couldn't have done anything differently. It's more like he doesn't trust himself now, he doesn't ever want to hurt anyone again and since this whole thing just came out of nowhere with no warning, he doesn't feel he can be in a relationship again...with anyone. I agree that he did me wrong. I still don't think I would have responded in the way that he did, but we're all different. It makes it difficult for me to ever trust again.

[Pollara]

Yes so true. So difficult to trust again.

I answered my ex few days after that I thanked him for his appreciation but at the same time this doesn't help anything since we cannot be again together. So let's leave the past behind. He said ok, he thanked me, send me kisses and then deleted me for everywhere (Facebook, chat etc). I wonder, is this his way of leaving the past behind?

[mfh]

I admire how you listened to what you need to do and acted on it by telling him it is over. This is and has been a difficult journey.

Peace to your heart,

Mary

[Pollara]

I admire how you listened to what you need to do and acted on it by telling him it is over. This is and has been a difficult journey.

Peace to your heart,

Mary

Thanks Mary for your consoling words.

Well for me it was difficult back then but not any more.

Since he told me that we cannot be together although we are a perfect match I don't see any point of talking about the past.

It hurts me and maybe it hurs him as well. So this was the rational solution from my viewpoint

[mfh]

There is nothing wrong with a rational solution....especially when one has done all one can. I am glad it is not difficult anymore.

Peace to your heart,

Mary

[kayc]

Yes, I think that's his way of leaving the past behind. This is just such a difficult situation and seems a lose-lose situation...that is until you've worked through your grief and put in the effort to move on. At some point you may even be thankful things worked as they did, but that's hard to imagine right now. Wish you so much in your life!

[Pollara]

Thank you KayC. For me the only difficult part is that I cannot trust anymore.

I really spent so much effort and energy on it, that I can only think of him as something nostalgic. I will always think of course what if things had turn differentely but they didn't. It's ok. I am really doing better and comparing to so many months ago I am almost healed.

It just striked me sometimes why things turned out this way and now we cannot even be friends.

Well, some friends told me that maybe after a lot of time (probably years) we might become friends since the inceident won't be fresh anymore. Well noone knows the future of course, but I got my lesson from the present

[kayc]

Jim and I remained friends, but I won't say it wasn't hard for me at first, I really had to steel myself from feeling feelings for him that aren't safe for me, but I've done it. And now he's just another person in my life, one I care about but don't trust, don't depend on, one whose company I enjoy, but that's it.

[GuiltHaunted]

All the best to you Pollara! It seems our stories almost has been running parallel.