Should I Stay Or Should I Go?

[Pollara]

yeah or they might think, well you are right, I cannot ask you to wait. You should move on and keep on with your life because I don't know when this is going to over. And probably since they don't go to a counselor they might think that it is not going to over (or end anytime soon). It is natural when you are depressed to think that way and that time don't pass.

yeah your bf's words reminded me of mines. all of them seem to have a similar pattern. lol. "I don't care about anything. I am just partying with my friends".

But I was thinking today, isn't the way that someone grieves indicative of someones character? I mean I know a lot of grieving persons that they didn't ditch their significant others and they weren't that selfish. OK I know that grieving is a self centered act, but not at this extent. I was thinking doesn't this indicate that my bf is just a selfish and weakling man? OK I know that this is out of his character, but what if this is his true character and all the other that anyone knew for years and his previous actions were just an "acting"? Shouldn't I pay attention to it? I wonder, ok let' s suppose he is coming back, how do I know that this thing is not going to happen again? Can I really trust this guy who was repeatidly mentioning that he would never hurt me? For me there are two of his actions that I don't know if I can ever forgive totally, the one that he came here to test his feelings and totally ignoring mine and the second, that he didn't have the courage to tell me to break up and let me find it out by myself, like I was the first random girl he met.

[plum]

hmm i dunno if how people grieve would be indicative of their character. I think grief is something that is too unpredictable to say whether it follows a certain pattern or not.

Pollara I guess only u can really say whether u think u know the real him or not. I totally understand how u feel but I also think maybe u need to cut him some slack? I mean he is going thru such a terrible time at the moment. I'm sure he does not mean to hurt you but it's pretty hard to try and be considerate of other people when ur so caught up in ur own feelings and emotions.

I guess only you will know deep down if u can trust him again or not after this.

I have been where you are feeling angry at him and for him to put us in this situation so to speak. But at the end of the day, u want to remember someone that u love with good and fond memories and not feeling of anger and resentment?

That's how I feel about it anyway. Maybe try and remember the good times u guys had and even if this is the end of ur relationship at least u can look back with good feelings?

I guess it's pretty much like what kayc said to us right at the start. only we know the limits of how much we can take and when to walk away.

[kayc]

Those are questions I had to ask myself as well and honestly, I didn't feel I could trust him any more, not as is. It would take a lot of work, more than he'd be willing to put in. Knowing that, I had to let go of that dream.

[Helena_d9]

I think the dream of a future with them is perhaps the hardest thing to let go. I keep suffering from flashes of all the good times and that horrible sinking feeling in my stomach when i think of the future that we know longer have. Not just the big stuff like a house, car, life etc but little things like our anniversary in 3 months, the concerts next month (which i still don't know if he'll get in touch about since one of them is in my hometown)...it's all just really sad.

I do understand completely though what you mean Pollara about questioning his character. In my case it has shown a side to him that i never knew existed and it is selfish and it is cruel. I think we only know the answers in our own individual situations as to if we can trust them again but i know that i am questioning that too. I mean what happens if we get back together and another difficult hurdle happens, will he just pull away again? Will he be able to support me if i went through the same thing?

I've been feeling like a really weak person because this has been getting to me so much but then a friend said something that made me really think about the fact that i was strong enough to support him throughout his mum, i was strong enough to stick out the miserable feelings of him being angry and pulling away after....and all he has done is run away like a coward. I'm not happy at the fact that he is getting to me so much but i know i am the worlds worst person at pretending i'm fine when i'm not.

Maybe i'm on my high horse a little bit but maybe we should be a little bit proud of the fact that we aren't so weak as to just give up something straight away when we care so much and have put so much into something. I just hope that if my situation continues i am able to give up and move on.

x

[kayc]

I remember so well the last time Jim made me cry. He'd been yoyoing me around, acting one way one time, another the next. Calling every day then not for two weeks. So many mixed messages! He'd said he'd probably come up some time, so I invited him and he gave me a very quick resounding "NO!!" It was very overboard in my estimation. It broke my heart. I cried all the way home (over an hour) and then I determined I'd never cry over him again! I steeled myself emotionally, and you can too Helena. The hardest part was the being in limbo and mixed messages. Now he can give me as many mixed messages as he wants and I don't receive them so they don't bother me. I figure his confusion is HIS to deal with, not mine. From that moment on, I was strong.

It hasn't changed how I feel about him, just how I let it affect me, if that makes sense. I don't let him have the same power over me he once did. I'm still attracted to him, still like him, still care about him, still enjoy his company, but that's it. Our "future" is gone, no dreams of being a family or sharing Christmas traditions, no growing old together, not even dating. Now he's just a phone buddy like all my other exes. Relegated to a chapter in my life.

[plum]

Aww Helena I'm sorry to hear about how sad ur feeling about the whole thing..

And yes I totally know what u mean about findig it hard to let go of that dream of the future together..

ESP when u think about the good times..

I don't think u should feel like ur weak because of how he is making u feel. Like kayc said its cuz u care and love him.. Love hurts...

I don't know how I would react if I was going thru what they're going thru but I would hope that I would learn to appreciate ppl that love me even more and want to be with them more cuz I would realize life is short.

[kayc]

I have been through grief, I didn't shove people away. When I lost my dad, I was married to my kids' dad at the time, and I WANTED him to hold me and be there for me. When I lost my sweet husband years later, I desperately wanted someone to be there for me, but my son was in the service and my daughter soon returned to her life, my sisters went home after the funeral. I can't imagine pushing someone away. But we all react differently to grief. And a love relationship does require more from you than any other type of relationship (sibling or friendship, etc.).

[Helena_d9]

It does take more in a love relationship and it can't be one sided all the time...a fact i think i need to learn at the minute. I know this is a hard time for them etc but you can't keep taking from people and give nothing back.

You support them when the first find out about their parent, you support them when they are looking after them, you support them at the funeral and after and then they turn around and cast you aside. Then they mess with your head, pick you up when they feel like it, give you mix signals, ignore you, call you huni and then disappear again. You relent because you love them and get in touch and then they ignore you again?

I think i would probably close myself off a little if i had to go through the same thing but i know i would turn to my loved one.

x

[kayc]

Helena, what you write here sounds like MY story except after enough messing with my head, I closed off my heart. I still love him but I'll be damned if I'm going to be messed with, I'm not a door mat! I'm someone to be cherished and appreciated and leveled with at least!

[Pollara]

Well i somehow went online to msn (I was actually in the outlook area) and then my boyfriend poped up and asked me why I am not in the msn the last days (yes after 2 weeks of no contact) and I told him I was busy (of course he didn't bother to contact me on my home or mobile). And then he asked me when I am returing to work, I told him, I asked him what he did these days and he told me nothing special (as usual) And I asked him: have you already broke up with me and I don't get the hints? And he told me no I haven't but I actually don't have any energy at all and I am thinking of what to do and I wouldn't break up with you in such a cowardish way. Bit I really don't know. And then I told him ok this is natural and don't overthink it. Just let things go. We can think over it better as soon as I will return in November. Until then, there is a reasonable ammount of time that you can take and think of things.

Well it seems its the same with you ladies. At least he will tell me when he will break up with me. lol

[kayc]

I'm glad he admitted that would be cowardly and I hope it doesn't come to that, Pollara.

[Pollara]

Yes he told me that he recognize that his behavior towards me is awful, but he would never do such a thing like breaking up with me and not letting me know or do things in order to understand it. Luckily he didn't change that part of his character.

Well let's see Kayc. For me the better is to wait until I return and them make his decision. Whatever he decides right now it might be wrong even if it is possitive for me since he cannot think with a clear mind and I would rather wait rather than rush things over and lead him to a wrong decision.

[plum]

I'm glad to hear that ur bf made contact Pollara. And that he knows how he is treating u is awful!! I think it's really good how ur thinking about the whole situation. To wait until u return in November. which to me seems like such a long time and I'm not sure if I could be as patient as you!! I'm rather impatient so will find it really hard to do that! I think it's great how ur handling this whole situation. : )

[Pollara]

Well Plum it is true that I am patient. I didn't always had this "ability" but I think through years I realized that some things can only be gained through patience. Of course I would like to know tomorrow or even today, but since this is not realistic, I think that the only way I could come out as a "winner" is by delaying his decision for the right time. Of course you never know the outcome, but I am sure that if he tries to think now he will break up with me for good since he doesn't have energy and doesn't know why. He will think that his boredom and luck of energy will stay forever and so he will let it go. By waiting and not pushing him, I think that I can gain at least a decision in a better state of mind than the one that he is now. Of course I am taking the risk to just reject me in the end, but you never know for any relationship how it will end up. I am engaged to just another uncertain situation

Sometimes I wonder, would our guys will waiting patiently like us if something similar had happened to us?

[kayc]

Pollara,

I agree with Plum, you are making the clear headed decision to wait and see later when he is better able to think. And what's the hurry, it's just a few months in the grand scheme of things. I know it's hard to wait, but you're giving yourselves the best possible chance. If he does decide in the end to break up, at least you know you expended every effort and won't have to wonder what if.

[Pollara]

It is like that KayC. And maybe in the end, I will be the one that says: I am bored of waiting let it go. But I am not a person who only thinks of love. Some people might reckognise this as a waste of time since I could have been with someone else. But even if I broke up now, I am not the person who jumps from the one relationship to other. So maybe even if I don't give him this chance of deciding then, I will still be single. OK I know that I will have hopes. But I have other interests and I will focus on them.

[kayc]

That is the totally healthy thinking, Pollara. I too have not rushed out to replace Jim with another love. I think it's good to take time for ourselves and learn from our relationships and it's not good to jump from one to another. I am okay with that and I am okay being single the rest of my life. It might be different if I was young and wanted to start a family, but I've done all that.

[Pollara]

Yeah don't mind be single either than just rushing to the first guy that I will find because I will be in a weak eotionally stage condition.

What I wonder though is that my bf's attitude over me it becomes more and more distant. I mean in the begining he was normal, then started to talk me once in 3 days and not a lot stuff but still ok, then he came here and returned more distant than ever. So if I say that his feelings towards me, reflects his state of grief, Isn't his grief supposed to deteriorating over time?Or it goes like normal, taking an up (to the worse I mean) and then starts slowing down?

[plum]

I dunno Pollara, I think it comes in waves. I felt like my guy was doing better last week, didn't contact him over the wknd, then msged tonite and I could tell that he felt really low and down. He said he was just having one of those days. I think that;s what makes it so much harder too. I never expect them to 'get over' it so to speak and u can't predict when they will be good consistently.. even if u think they're doing better, they may suddenly fall back into it.

I wish I could think like u Pollara, but I do want to settle down and have a family soon. That's why I know I can't wait for him forever. and some days I do think what am I doing, maybe I need to be out meeting other ppl as it's never going to work between us. I know that's not a good way to think about it, but just like he can't help how he feels, I can't help how I feel about this either. Lately I have been feeling rather lonely and think it will be nice to have someone to share things with and can count on. I do know that maybe there will come a time when this kind of feeling will become really strong, and it may be before he is ready to deal with things.. I guess only time will tell..

[kayc]

Everyone's grief journey is different and in the beginning you can be in a state of shock or numbness, then about six months reality starts setting in. The whole first year marks the "firsts without" such as their first birthday while dead, your first birthday without them, your first Christmas without them, your first Thanksgiving without, first NY's w/o, etc. It goes like that all year. Then the anv. of their death is hard hitting. But many say the second year is worse than the first. Reality is going strong then and you miss them all the more. Many are surprised that year three doesn't seem to be much better. Eventually, you get used to it, you still miss them but you've learned to do your time..."without". You find a "new normal". You are no longer the person you were "before", that person is gone, you are a new person. You learn new strengths, friends may change, you've dealt with a whole lot of stuff you never knew you could or would.

My experience is from having lost my husband...it affected every aspect of my life. I didn't go through a lot of this when I lost my dad, but I've heard losing your second parent is harder than the first one because now you're the new generation carrying on without a parent. That link to history is gone. No longer do you have someone who knew you when you were a little baby, knew how wanted you were, watched you through all of your babyhood, childhood, etc. No longer do you have your cheering squad, the person/s you fall back on when things are tough, that person you turn to for advice, or a helping hand. My sit. with my parents is different because my mom has always been mentally very off, so she's never been that support to me, I can't imagine grieving her the same way most people do their parents, but I can imagine how it'd be for others who have normal parents. Also she has Dementia, so it seems I'm losing what little I had of her in stages. I don't know what's harder, bit by bit or shockingly all at once. This way I adjust little by little, but losing someone to an accident or something, you don't even get a chance to process anything, you're just slammed with it.

Keep in mind that each person that experiences loss of a loved one, we all have different relationships, different coping mechanisms, some of us are strong, some are not, some of us are used to coping with hard things, some have had charmed lives and don't know where to start with this. In other words, there is no set path that fits each of us exactly. We can see some commonalities, but there will also be some differences.

You are experiencing grief too, just as they are, only instead of directly to death, it's a secondary loss, a by-product, loss of a love relationship due to extenuating circumstances beyond your control. Some break up with finality all at once, as Jim did me, others pull back gradually, not responding like they once did, leaving you hanging. That's hard, because you're not sure whether to adjust or hope! The limbo state seems uncannily cruel. But what can you do? You want to give it every chance to make it if possible, hoping your relationship will be like memory foam...but not knowing the outcome. This waiting and seeing is very hard, my heart goes out to each of you! I did that with Jim too for a time, until I felt the need to self-preserve. If/when you reach that point, you'll know, there'll be no doubt, and you'll have to do what's best for your own mental health, in the end.

[plum]

Thanks for your insight on this kayc. I guess the big question is will the 'new normal/him' still want me in his life as his partner'. Guess at the end of the day that's what we're waiting around to find out isn't it....

I do hope love and relationship is like a memory foam. That all the happy and good memories will bring them back to us.... we can only hope!

[Pollara]

Well I only had happy memories but I don't know if this can apply to my case. It is very easy to forget a relationship that it was only two months when the incident happened. On the other hand, since we hadn't any arguments etc it is easier to start things from the scratch. Or at least this is what I believe. But I guess my case is kind of lost comparing to you all with the long term relationships.

KayC I think that my guy won't be like that when his father will pass out because he grew up with his mother and I have the feeling that for some reason he blames him for the cancer (because it first appeared when his parents got divorce).But still he has good relationship with their father but I doubt he will feel the same.

On the other hand, I was thinking KayC about the trust matter, and maybe it is like that because it is the first time that they have been through this grief journey. Imagine that my guy thinks that he might be like that for the rest of his life. I believe that if something like that comes again, they will not push us away because they will know that these are all related to grief. It is not that they stopped loved us or whatever. Well maybe I am extra optimist but this is an explanation that I can give. They might be distant again but not questioning the relationship

[plum]

Well I dunno about not being like that second time around. My guy went thru his mother's death less than 2 yrs ago, and he seemed to cope ok. we were in touch back then (as friends) and I didn't feel like he was pushing me away. But then again i guess we were friends so maybe it would have been different if we were in r/s.

who knows

[Pollara]

Well I don't think that you can see someone as a friend and then be together again. I think that he didn't see you as a friend back then. But maybe because you were on this kind of friendly terms it was easier to talk with you. Or it might be what kayC told about not having parents anymore. And of course it depends on the relationship with the parents. Because my bf's parents are divorced so it would be kind of unnatural to feel the same when his father will die.

One friend of mine told me that we might never be together again because he had made a connection with me and his grief. And that I will always remind him this period if we stay together and that he needs to break up with me in order to move on. Of course their minds work in a strange way right now but I cannot see anyway happening since when his grief took him over he stopped talking to me. What exactly will he remember?Oh, I had Polla back then and I stopped talk to her? I mean ok his ex even knew his mother and have been trips alltogether etc. I am not connected to his mother in anyway. When I met her she was already diagnosed and in a very bad state. It would seem more rational to me to feel guilt that we were in the next room and his mother was dying let's say than connect me with his grief. I don't know

[kayc]

I don't know that I buy that...us reminding them of that time/grief. I think it's more to do with they can't do a relationship, don't have it in them. A friendship yes, relationship no.