My Girlfriend's Father Just Passed Away And She Just Broke Up With

[Anthony9528]

Hi,

My name is Anthony. I'm so glad I found this forum and I hope to get some inspirational support, as well as start the healing process simply by sharing my story....

Before I begin, I know there are many stories similiar to mine and although it does help to know I'm not the only one who has experienced this, I can't help but to feel alone and empty.

Ok.... sorry if my thoughts seem a bit random.... I still have so many feeling running around in my mind.

Four months ago I, age 40, met my girlfriend, age 37, (well, now ex-girlfriend as of yesterday)... we met at the gym we both belong to. I got up enough courage to ask her out, she said yes, and it began from there. We hit it off immediately. It was like nothing I've experienced before. She felt the same way. We started spending the majority of our time together, aching for each other when we were apart. We connected on so many levels it was crazy.... I knew (or at least I thought I knew) that she was the one I would some day marry. Within a month in to the relationship, we talked about future plans together and things we wanted to do. Things were amazing!!!

Her father.... He was diagnosed with stage 4 prostate cancer 2 years ago. He had been ok up until recently. The cancer had spread and he began chemotherapy... I'd say 3 weeks ago or so. My girlfriend was very close to him.... Just about the time he started chemo treatment, my girlfriend and I went on a vacation to Puerto Rico, a trip we were both excited for. That's kinda where it went downhill. She was constantly worried about her dad while we were there since he began getting sick from the trearments. Plus, the weather was terrible raining almost every day, which didnt help matter. She began telling me I'm too clingy which caught me completely off guard b/c I wasn't any different on the trip than I had been the previous time we were together.

We get home from the trip and a week later her dad is in the hospital suffering liver and kidney failure. Within 4 days after being admitted, he passed away.

I gave her as much space as she needed. She spent all of her time with her brother, sister and mom. I did not attempt to smother her in any way, at least I ddnt think so. I did tell her I love her often and did whatever she needed me to (pick up food for the family, run errands, etc).

So fast forward to now (a week after his death).... She stopped saying she loved me 3 days ago and broke up with me yesterday.

I am absolutely devasted.... I'm still madly in love with her.... I keep questioning what I did wrong??? What is wrong with me??? Am I really too clingy???? Was I not around enough to support her??? Can you really fall out of love with someone that fast due to a death of a parent????

Now, to add to all of this, she is recently divorced.... like from the beginning of this year (2014). She also has an ex boyfriend who she has been friends with for many years. His mother passed away about 2 months ago, also due to cancer, and I can't help but wonder if she will now run back to him b/c he will be able to understand what she is going through....

If you love someone, don't you work through things together???? Her brother is married and he isn't pushing his wife away...... Although I hate to even think this, and please don't judge me for doing so, but is it possible that I was just her distraction from other events in her life (divorce, etc.) and the death of her father was a way to end it with me?

I'm so confused.... lost.... empty......

I want to talk to her and hug her and tell her all of the things I will miss about her but I know I need to stay away.. I won't help either, when I run in to her in the gym.....

I'm sure there is alot more I'd like to say right now in this post but this is all I can get out at the moment.

Thanks for listening!!

Anthony

[enna]

Dear Anthony,

First of all I'd just like to say how very sorry I am that your girlfriend broke up with you. This has to be very traumatic for you. You have found a safe place to express yourself by coming here ~ no one judges only listens with an understanding heart.

Please understand that this breakup is not about you rather it is about the person who lost her father. What you have to do is begin your own grieving process because you also have suffered a great loss.

We look to blame ourselves for things like this but I hope you don't spend too much time playing the "blame game." Of course you are confused and hurt and left with trying to figure out just what happened!

It is time to take care of you. We here will listen.

Anne

[kayc]

Anthony,

I am so sorry your girlfriend broke up with you, I know how hard that is and how much it hurts.

I hope you'll take the time to read some of the other threads in this section, because there are a LOT of people who have gone through the same things as you, myself included. In my case, I'd been engaged for a year and when his mom was dying, he broke up with me.

As Anne said, there's nothing wrong with you, it's not about anything you did or didn't do. It's also not that she fell out of love with you. Right now she is grieving and that is taking every conscious breath she has. She has no room leftover for a relationship, which takes effort and attention. She can't deal with it.

It will be important for you to respect her wishes. If she wants no contact, if she doesn't want to see you, it will be hard, but don't force it. You can't earn respect by breaking it. In time she may miss you and make contact as a friend. It will be up to you if you want that or not. In most cases, they do not resume their previous relationship as it was...something about grief and loss changes things. For myself, my ex-fiance are friends now but it has changed our relationship and I no longer trust him. I always believed when you're with someone, it's through thick and thin, no matter what...he showed me that was not the case with him and that's not what I need. I'd rather be alone than with someone who could just dump me through no fault of my own at any time.

Understand this is not her fault either. It just is. I've been through grief, and although I've never pushed my loved ones away, I do know how muddled your thinking can be at that time.

You can't worry about the other guy...if it happens, it happens, if it doesn't it doesn't. There's nothing you can do about that. But remember, if she'd wanted to be with him, she already would have, I hope that helps.

I hope you'll feel free to come here any time and voice yourself, vent, whatever you need. This is a very hard thing to go through and it's going to take you some time to work your way through it.

Right now I hope you'll focus on YOU and begin your healing process. It helps to keep busy so you aren't fixated on what's going on with her. Spend time with family and friends. This is a good time to join a gym or take a class, anything that takes your time and attention. Exercise is a wonderful way to relieve stress and help you feel better. Avoid depressants, like alcohol, they don't help and only make you feel worse in the long run. Eat right, try to get some sleep...I know that'll be hard for a while. If tv makes you sleep, turn it on, if music helps, use that.

[Anthony9528]

Thank you both for your input!! I really appreciate it. It's only been a day since I lost the love of my life and the number of different emotions I've experienced has been insane....

I want her back so bad. Just typing this brings tears to my eyes... I would take her back in a heartbeat.... Wow, I've never felt so vulnerable.... So exposed.... She was so quick to let me go.... and there was no emotion.... like the past 4 months didn't even exist to her. I keep replaying last night's events in my head. What I should have said differently? or what I didn't get a chance to say..... not that it would have made a difference. I know I need to stop this madness but right now it's just so hard to overcome. So, there really is no chance of getting back what we once had????? That is the hardest part to swallow..... The selfish part of me is mad at her father for leaving... I know that is wrong but I can't help it.

I hope to have future posts that will be more uplifting... but right now, there is no light shining thru the dark clouds above me. At age 40, I've never experienced such pain over a relationship breakup. And losing my love over the death of a parent I just don't understand.... I've been trying to wrap my head around it..... At least if it was something I did, I can make changes to improve myself for the better. I admire both of you for being able to move on.

[kayc]

I wouldn't say there's no chance, I'd say there's a very slim chance. Out of all of the threads in this section (I've read them all), I only remember one couple that worked it out. I'm not trying to be a naysayer, but looking at it realistically, it'd be good for you to start focusing on yourself instead of her. And I also wouldn't conclude that she doesn't have feelings for you, it's just they've taken a back seat to the grief she's trying to get through. Grief can take a long, long time to adjust to.

It's been over four years since my fiance broke up with me, and although he's sorry for the pain he caused me, and he shows interest in me, he has not done what it would take to get me back. I don't view him the same anymore, I care about him, I like him, but I do not view him as husband material. Breaking up does change things for people.

I do hope you'll spend the time reading some of the threads so you can get a general idea of how things go.

It's going to be important, if you talk to her, to not bring up relationship talk, that would be construed as pressure to her and drive her further away. She can't handle any pressure right now.

It took me quite a while to accept that we could only be friends. We didn't have any contact for a few months. Then he started yanking me around emotionally, and it's then that I had to create a protective barrier around my heart...it wasn't fair to me and would set me back from the healing I'd done. He didn't mean to, it's just he's mixed up and didn't know what HE wanted.

I, and most of the posters here, analyzed until we were nearly crazy. We finally concluded that we wouldn't get an answer, we'd just have to accept it. You will probably go through the same thing, it seems there are stages we go through before we're able to face it and accept it, and heal from it. It's very tough.

I wish I could tell you that in one year she'd come to her senses and want you back. That'd be something you could shoot for. But that's not what happens, I'm very sorry. There was that one couple...I'm happy for them and wish we all had the same happy ending.

But before I leave you like this, I want to tell you, I AM happy, I've moved on (not to other people, I gave up dating), but have reconciled myself to being alone and creating a life for myself. And we are friends. There's a lot to like/love about him, his sense of humor, his gentleness, his caring about family/friends/neighbors, our faith, and I'm still attracted to him. BUT, I do not want to set myself up for more of the same and I have not seen him regret breaking up with me and want me back. I would have been remiss had I hung on to hope for something more.

[Anthony9528]

Again, thank you for your wisdom. I've begun reading other posts in this forum and I'm shocked to see how many people have experienced what I am going thru right now. As I mentioned, It's helpful to know that I'm not alone even if the pain is still so overwhelming.

If, in fact, I fall in to the majority of those who've lost their significant others forever, I hope that I will be able to find love again. Even though I can honestly say I don't see that happening any time in the near future.

It is so mind boggling to me as to why grief would cause the death of love.

But what do I do now because I'm bound to run in to my ex at the gym.... I want to give her space and not contact her even though I'm dying inside.... But I'm afraid now by her seeing me she won't realize what she has lost, not that I should expect anything to change (still trying to accept that). I can't change my workout time due to my work schedule and I don't feel its fair to me to stop going when it's a big part of my life just to avoid contact with her. Any advice????

Kay, I also know you mentioned that I should not worry about the other guy but I know that she will, at some point sooner than later, get involved with other sexual partners with no strings attached, if only to fill a void temporarily while getting thru her grief. And I only bring this up b/c she told me she did this when grieving over her divorce so I'm assuming it will happen during this period too. This definitely adds to my pain. I know I can't do anything about this since we are broken up but it also weighs heavily on my conscious especially since I'm still in love with her.

[kayc]

You'll have to shove it out of your mind or it'll drive you crazy. I know, easier said than done.

I wouldn't change your time at the gym...if you run into her, just say hi and keep doing what you're doing. Besides, she knows your schedule and is able to avoid you if she chooses.

She will eventually realize what she lost but will probably not do anything about it out of guilt for what she did to you and because in the meantime both of you will have moved on...it will be some time before that happens. If and when she ever shows interest in you again, you probably won't feel the same way, although I know that's hard for you to imagine right now.

[Anthony9528]

Well here I am... 2:27 am... My sleep is done for the night as thoughts of her have flooded my mind. There is no way I will be able to clear my head of her and get a few more hours of sleep... So I will lay here, trying not to think about her and slowly, painfully wait for my alarm to go off...

I will head to the gym this morning... I hope she doesnt go.

I want to email her at some point today and tell her all the things i miss about her... Like her snoring which always drove me crazy, the sound of her slippers shuffling across the floor, the cute way she talked to me at times, her scent.... I could go on and on...

I know that would most likely push her away further but if there really isnt any shot of getting her back then why would it matter???? I always said to her that if I never told her how I felt then she would never know. Really, why should this time be any different? Does it make me look weak by saying I miss her? Its not like I expect her to respond and would even tell her she didnt need to. Ugh... This is going to be a long and painful road ahead...

[kayc]

Because your BEST shot is respecting her wishes. If she's asked for no contact, that's what she needs you to give her. If you send her an email like that, it will make her feel bad, she'll feel pressured, and she'll want further away from you.

Yes it's painful, but respect yourself enough not to take being treated this way and ride it out...you will get over her if you give it that chance. The problem is, you're still in love with her and that wants to rule your emotions. Sometimes it helps to step out of yourself and look at things with an observing eye. Yes, it makes you look weak, but no weaker than the rest of us having gone through it, it is one of the toughest things in the world! I know! Hang in there. Have you read the other posters that have been through this and how it went when they contacted them and talked relationship stuff?

[Anthony9528]

Update from this morning. She was not at the gym. Part of me was so relieved and another part wanted to see her. I wouldn't have bothered her but it still would have been nice.

Kay - You are so right! I didn't send an email and won't send it. I've written it in my head and that's where it will stay. Plus I'm constantly re-writing it anyways. : ) Yeah, I've read the other posts and know how it ends. Its hard to envision that happening when you are in it and still have all this hope that in no time things will be back to normal.... False hope sucks.

Today, so far, has been a weird day. I went in to the office for work (worked from home yesterday b/c the tears wouldn't stop) and when I got in there, I passed a very attractive woman and for a split second thought maybe there is life after my ex. Then when I got to my desk and started talking to my coworker, who I also consider a good friend, the water works came on full force. It's weird how my emotions keep switching back and forth like this. I've also experienced some bitter feeling moments towards my ex as well, which I'm sure is all part of how it goes.

I'm trying to repeat in my head "Outcomes are not determined by the situation, they are determined by your reaction to them". Sometimes it works and I remain positive and sometimes not so much.

I will be visiting my buddy and his wife tonight. They just had a baby girl. I'm looking forward to that b/c babies always bring happiness and I can sure use some of that right now.

I really hope I can get some sleep tonight - This constant headache just doesn't help throughout the day.

Tomorrow will be another gym morning with the potential of running in to her. There will be awkwardness I'm sure but I kinda want it to happen just to get that initial shock over with and not have to worry about it happening for the first time every morning. I can't wait for her to see me. I've already lost a couple of pounds I gained while I was with her and now I'm starting to trim down and look goooood.... it helps when you can't eat and when you do, food has no taste. LOL

[Anthony9528]

Just another quick thought for today that I'd like feedback on. Is it bad or wrong to text my ex at some point this week to just say something like: Hi. Sorry to bother you. I hope you are doing ok. I just want you to know that if you ever want to talk, don't hesitate to reach out to me.... I just want her to know that I'm still there for her and for her not to feel guilty about ending it with me. The loss of her father is greater than my loss for her.

[kayc]

I love the saying you said, "Outcomes are not determined by the situation, they are determined by your reaction to them". I'll have to try and remember that. Another one I used to keep on the wall in front of my desk (I was going through a divorce in a small town...ugh!), "Your value does not depend upon what other people think of you." I used to tell myself that in the mirror every morning. It helps to have positive things to say to yourself.

If you text her, I'd wait a while, keep it short and simple, like "Hi, I hope you're doing okay. If you ever want to talk, I'm here." It leaves the door open without putting pressure on her.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time of it, I remember that so well! When Jim broke up with me (I was at work, he did it by Fed Ex delivery), I cried and was told I needed to leave. Wow, really supportive place. I was upset that he'd chosen to do it that way instead of in the privacy of my own home, I didn't deserve that. Yet somehow we manage to live through these things...these times in our lives that seem so unbearable.

At least one positive thing is you're losing weight! I gained weight after Jim broke up with me, I just didn't care , I think I tried to fill the emotional void with food, not good. Now I'm having to lose it.

I'm glad you have a friend to be with tonight...a day at a time!

[MartyT]

Hi Anthony,

I've been following your thread since you joined us, and in addition to the wise counsel you're already receiving from Kay, I just want to add a couple of thoughts regarding two statements you've made in your posts.

First, you said, "The selfish part of me is mad at her father for leaving... I know that is wrong but I can't help it." Please know that when you are in grief (and YOU are in grief as much as anyone else who is here) the feelings you have often aren't pretty or fair or even rational ~ they just are ~ and we really don't have much control over how we feel ~ most especially when we are mourning the loss of someone we love. So please don't judge yourself for how or what you are feeling. What matters is what you choose to DO with what you are feeling. Judge yourself by how you behave, not by how you feel. When you become aware of a feeling that you may not be very proud of, just notice it, turn it over in your head, and ponder where it may be coming from. Then let it go or wait until it passes ~ without labeling yourself as an awful person for having that feeling in the first place. You are a human being experiencing very normal feelings during a very trying time in your life.

You also said, "The loss of her father is greater than my loss for her." When we are dealing with the loss of someone or something we hold dear, it is positively pointless to compare the magnitude of our loss with anyone else's ~ because for you, the worst possible loss is the one you are experiencing right now. See, for example, this article: When Grief Seems Insignificant By Comparison

I'm so sorry this is happening to you ~ but I know you'll continue to find the understanding, comfort and support you need and deserve right here. ♥

[CoCoa]

Anthony,

Wow, all this sound so very familiar! It has been well over a year (Aug. 28, 2013) since I have seen or heard from JC. I was so hurt, confused and crazy I could not see straight. I did all the wrong things texted/called/emailed all in the name of HOPE that things would return to the way they were before his mom died. NOT! He left me, never looked back. it is like he never existed like those amazing few months we spent together while his mom was dying never happened but it did. Now I look back on it and know it had nothing to do with me it was what he needed to do to grieve. I still think of him without the desire to contact him in anyway, I stopped looking at his Facebook page after I unfriended him..I did't wan't to see or know anything...EVERYTHING HURT. It took me about 10 months to return to myself, I have dated some but I am very guarded, that situation changed me actually for the better I dated differently. not so quick to give so much of me without it being earned.

I am so sorry you are in such pain, know it will pass and you will go on with your life. This is a great place to come and vent and get support, it there is anything I can stress it is like KayC said do not make any contact, it will hurt you when she does not respond in the way in which she once did or not respond at all. Make yourself the most important person to yourself right now try to eat, sleep and pray for you future. Stay positive about your life, it will go on and one day without realizing it she will be a distant memory.

Your heart will heal,

CoCoa

[Anthony9528]

Another day.... everyone has been so great here on this site!! I appreciate all of your insight and support.

Thoughts as of this morning.... and I apologize if I repeat anything I've said in previous posts. I'm kinda just spewing out what is on my mind and what I am feeling. This is like a therapy for me in a sense. Posting here allows me to see my thoughts in written context right in front of me which hopefully will help the healing process.

This post might be rather long, I've felt a lot since my last post late yesterday.

So.... after letting my emotions get the best of me knowing very well what I was doing was wrong and going against the advice of everyone here.... I texted her..... and said the following:

Sorry to bother you. I hope you are doing ok. No need for you to respond... I just want to let you know if you ever want to talk, please don't hesitate to reach out to me. I promised I would be there for you and I meant that. Take care of yourself.

Now, I didn't necessarily expect a response.... but looking back now I guess that's exactly what I wanted. When she ended it with me, she so stone cold. No emotion. I think I can say that I wasn't looking for some warm and fuzzy response but who knows for sure.....

She responded by saying:

No bother. Thank you! I will definitely keep that in mind. Take care of yourself as well.

Ok, so I thought that response was rather cold...... I pretty much got the feeling it was definitely over and have been trying to accept that and actually did a good job of that last night. Again, that was last night.

I did text her back to ask her when I can get my guitar back that is still over her house. She asked if Saturday was good. I said no I won't be home but how about Sunday. So Sunday it is, she will drop it off to me. I needed to get my stuff back as soon as possible so I can try and begin to move on.

Moving past that event, I did go to my friend’s house to see his baby. After talking to my friend’s wife for a while last night, she pointed out some things that she considered warning signs that, looking back at it now, I can see…. Hindsight is always 20/20

I’m sure the death of her father pushed her over the edge but also her past relationships were not the healthiest. She always said I was good for her and that I was the nicest guy she had ever known. I treated her with respect, I didn’t cause relationship drama, and I cared for her and gave her my all. I think she may be someone that thrives on some turmoil. She said she was always the giver in her past relationships, having to deal with her partners’ issues and problems. I didn’t have any of that. In our case, I was the giver, which I’ve always been. When she ended it, she said I was always giving and she was constantly taking and now has nothing to give…

Either way… she is gone. I still miss her so much. Still trying to fight the tears. Still feeling broken.

[Anthony9528]

Oh, and another thought....

She was not at the gym this morning either. Whether she is staying away right now for my benefit or for hers, I will never know...

[kayc]

Good points, Marty! So true!

Anthony,

Her being used to being the giver and feeling she has nothing to give is definitely a point.

I don't think her response was bad, but just not what you'd hoped for. Wishing the best for you Sunday.

Cocoa,

So sorry you had to go through this too, but it's good to hear you found your way through it and even found a positive to it. I feel that has been the case for myself as well.

[Anthony9528]

Yes Marty, I didn't think of it that way when I mentioned her loss was greater than mine. So true... I'm seriously hurting too and I shouldn't ignore that.

I have to say it's been ok today. Not many tears but thoughts of her are still there. I'm trying to make a mental list of those things I might not have liked about the relationship, not that there were many, but I think I'm trying to find a way to make myself feel better now that she left me. I still have thoughts as to why she ended it but I can say that it is not as bad as it had been.

Kay, regarding her text message back... Yeah I guess her response wasn't bad. She didn't have to respond at all or just have said 'thank you." However, even though she said she would keep talking to me at some point in the future in mind, I feel I will have to take that with a grain of salt. She could have been just being polite. Either way, I cannot continue to analyze what she said.

I'm a little concerned now about Sunday. Waiting this long before getting my stuff back. I wish I could get it sooner and get it over with but I'm not planning on contacting her again. When she does come by, I don't expect her to stay. I expect its a drop and run. I hope she doesn't want to chit chat about anything b/c I won't have the strength to turn her away.

I did take a big step though, I think. So, I have kept every text message we've exchanged since we met.... Today, I deleted those. I did not go back to read any of them b/c I know it would have just made me upset b/c there were so many love filled texts. Reading those would not change anything. My memories of those events are still plenty fresh and reading them would only amplify my pain and take longer for me to let go.

I do still have her as a friend on Facebook. She has not removed me either which I thought she might have done so already.

CoCoa, thank you for sharing your story with me. I know time will heal me. Still so hard right now to see that.

[Anthony9528]

I had to come here and post a few things I recently found that have helped me with my grieving process. Not sure if these should be posted here or maybe better suited in a different forum but please take a look. Now that I have plenty of time to myself, I'm trying to make the most of it. I think stuff like this will help me heal and in time also find love again. I hope this helps others as well. Please let me know your thoughts.

13 Rules for Being Alone and Being Happy About It

http://riskology.co/alone/

The missing piece meets the Big O

[kayc]

You're making headway and using wisdom rather than feelings. You're taking the steps towards healing.

[Anthony9528]

So, here we are... another day. I definitely do not feel as bad as I did 5 days ago. Still hurting but I'm trying to think rationally about things as opposed to my feelings taking over. Little to no tears now but I still feel a hole inside me. I've definitely been focusing on myself... Getting back to hobbies that were pushed off to the side while with my ex, as well as other things I'd like to start doing. I do still miss her and wish I could just talk to her, even if it was to say something silly or joke about something. I wonder what she is doing.... How she is doing.... Whats going on in her mind.... I still am having a little anxiety over this coming Sunday.... I have no expectations and I'm sure it will just be a cold exchange of material belongings but part of me still hopes for something a little more. My friends and family have all said I'm better off but I guess I'm still a little blinded by love.

Ok thoughts on this? I can't remember if I already asked..... I had already bought her a Christmas gift prior to the recent events. It is something small, just a hat, no jewelry or anything like that. I still would like her to have it b/c it is so her. I remember her eyes lighting up when we came across it a few months ago. I always remember the little things.... Even if I just mail it to her at Christmas time with a short little message, would that be wrong? I don't think it would hinder my healing process but I need an outside opinion.

I do recognize that if one day we were to ever try again that things would be different (not that I'm hanging on to the thought of getting back together, but the thought is there). We are both forever changed and she would have to earn my trust. My shell has definitely hardened a bit.

[kayc]

You're doing all the right things that will aid you in healing and moving forward, which you have no choice to do.

I don't see anything wrong with sending the gift, but I'd let her know when you purchased it so she doesn't think you're still trying, which might irritate her or make her feel she should reciprocate (remember, avoid "pressure").

Now you're thinking...it's good that you're using your brain right now, that will save you! Eventually you'll get to the point where she isn't on your mind so much and you aren't secretly hoping for something different between you...I know it's hard to reach. Sometimes it takes them saying something harsh to us to get us to that point...it did me.

[Anthony9528]

Thank you! Unfortunately, this morning I had a little setback. Feeling pretty sad at the moment and missing her bad. I hope to shake this feeling at some point soon throughout today. My rational thinking and feeling driven thinking are constantly fighting with each other. Looks like my feelings won this latest round. : (

[kayc]

It's okay to feel that way, you're bound to, just so you let your head rule your actions. I know how hard and painful it is.

[Anthony9528]

This is going to be a long night.... First Friday night alone without my ex. I have plenty to keep me busy but she is still constantly on my mind. I wish i lived closer to my family... Being in CT and they in NY, its not like I can just pop over. I do have friends but they have their own families to tend to. Its hard being 40 and single when the majority of who know are settled down.

I know I will manage thru tonight but boy does it really suck!!!! I do still wonder what she is doing and how she is feeling, especially with her dad passing.

Oh well... Ugh... I wish I had some motivation to do something.... Anything.... I know i control this feeling but right now im just blah, void of any desire to do anything but sit here....

As I mentioned earlier.... This sucks!!!!!!!