Tired Of Being Strong

[Gwenivere]

2 hours ago, kayc said:

I think this is something for all of us to consider when posting...are we able to encourage and uplift each other in our posting & messages?  What are we doing for ourselves to propel ourselves in our lives?  Thought for today...

My thought for today is are we required to?  I don't mean that as mean as it sounds, this 2 dimensional communication method is hard to navigate at times.  

I know I hit a place I an not propelling myself forward.  I'd like to be doing that, but it's not possible right now.  Other factors compounding the grief have gotten the better of me.  I feel if I were being tortured I would break and tell someone anything to stop this compounded pain.  I hate that I feel so weak.  I see my counselor today and am angry at her for telling me about other people that fight hardships along with thier grief.  My grief is not diminished because I don't have is to raise kids or a mortgage to worry about.  

Im sorry, but I am on a rant today about feeling like my grief could be worse.  My husband is dead.  I have my own personal battles that are different along with that.  But that is primary.  It's the core that make everything else feel like bricks in my chest.  

Ive seem to have wandered off topic, but brain fog has been driving me bonkers!

[kayc]

Gwen,

You are right to be upset at your counselor telling you that because although it may be true, in so telling you that she has unwittingly de-evaluated YOUR grief, YOUR experience.  All of us have a right to have our own experience heard for what it's worth.  

I know you are battling medical issues that are very real and very, very difficult.  I hope you continue beating down the doors of your doctors until you get some resolution as that is just not good to live with, esp. at the level you're dealing with.  That is undoubtedly compounding your grief and making it difficult to navigate your way through it.  I'm not surprised you notice your grief seeming worse because of it.

I guess to you, propelling yourself forward today is just getting through it.  Sometimes that's all one can hope for.  But ultimately there needs to be more to look forward to, and I think if you can get the panic attacks/anxiety under control, you'd have a start on finding your way through your grief journey.  

You ask, "are we required to?"...are we required to what?  I'm not sure what you meant by that.  Did you mean propel yourself forward?  If so, well I hope so!  The opposite wouldn't be very desired, now would it?

Gwen, you are battling more than the rest of us right now,.  I wish much better for you, and I hope it does change soon.

[Gwenivere]

Thank you, Kay.  I asked are we required to post encouraging and uplifting replies.  I know we are not, but I am in rant mode today for some reason.  That is actually good for me as anger gives me energy to move a little forward.  I'm not one for flowery sentiments or quotes that talk about hardships becoming gifts.  I more like let's say it like it is.  If we come out the other side with more wisdom, that is fantastic.  

Thank you again for the validation.  You don't know what that means to me!  I feel I should send you her fee today.  

[hollowheart]

19 minutes ago, Gwenivere said:

 I see my counselor today and am angry at her for telling me about other people that fight hardships along with thier grief.  My grief is not diminished because I don't have is to raise kids or a mortgage to worry about.  

Im sorry, but I am on a rant today about feeling like my grief could be worse.  My husband is dead.  I have my own personal battles that are different along with that.  But that is primary.  It's the core that make everything else feel like bricks in my chest.  

As far as what your counselor said, I think we're to often shamed in not being more positive about a better future. When someone says despite their grief they get up each day and count each speck of sunshine and write down 10 things that made them happy they are praised and patted on the back.

If you are still miserable and sad and bitter and don't want to do anything it's like you get the finger wag of 'why aren't you being more positive?'   I've been feeling crappy for a while. And that may lift. But I can't push myself out of it, that doesn't work.

I feel like telling someone to be happy is the same as telling someone that's happy to be sad. You can't force it. I"m trying to find a life when my current life has been destroyed. I don't know where to start.

Gwen, I'm more like you with the rants than posting those inspiring quotes. I used to do that on Pinterest, but for me it always worked for a fixable problem. Those quotes don't help me in this.  The hole in my heart and my life will remain. I feel that is what society and also our friends want, to spout some encouraging sentiment and we instantly puff our chests out and charge through life renewed, thus done with our grief.

 

 

[mittam99]

47 minutes ago, hollowheart said:

I think we're to often shamed in not being more positive about a better future. When someone says despite their grief they get up each day and count each speck of sunshine and write down 10 things that made them happy they are praised and patted on the back.

HH...

I certainly have not seen anything like that here at Marty's forum. I remember the first night I started posting here a few weeks after Tammy died, I hated my new life. Felt like I didn't want to live. Was overwhelmed by guilt and was absolutely devastated. Members here tried to tell me that in time, things would get better. At the time, I couldn't imagine or see that.  But I listened to what they said and it gave me a measure of hope. No immediate relief of course but I knew these people had also lost their soul mate and they were not just surviving, but living.

There are a lot of obstacles to overcome when we are in grief. Nothing comes easy and certainly not happiness.

I've had some better days recently, but even on these days, tears flow easily. This isn't the life I wanted. It sucks a good portion of the time. I ache for Tammy and I still don't understand why she was taken at only 45 years old. That pain will always be with me. It's just that I'm learning to "compartmentalize" my deep and overwhelming grief. Grief used to consume me 24/7.

Now I'm trying to live a life that both honors Tammy and would make her proud. I'm nowhere near happy. I will never again experience the happiness I had with Tammy. I'll never give or feel that intense type of love again. I know that. I'm not the same person, never will be. I am trying to not just function, but to accomplish positive things in this new life I didn't choose.

No one is telling you to post only positives or pretend your life is sunshine and lollipops when it clearly is not. The hope is that someday soon, the dark clouds of grief will lift a little and the pain you feel will be lessened.

Mitch

[kayc]

Thanks, Mitch.  I guess you better stated what I wanted to convey.  

[Margm]

I am half reading, half comprehending, and I guess two halves make a whole.  I don't feel whole though.  I am haunted by my three month widowhood of my neighbor Carolyn.  And, she had been with Bob, dating, and then married since she was 14.  He has been ill for so long.  We cannot compare apples to oranges though.  Once they are gone, they are gone and sometimes on here I know I am not helping anyone, sometimes I write to myself, and I don't plan on going back and reading what I write when I am in such a low mood.  I want to be happy but every place I looked in the "big city" today was the last time I took Billy there.  I have to go back in the morning.  What I meant about helping people though is I don't think I helped Carolyn.  I just told her I reached places and times when I was numb.  She had been crying and back in November and December I tried not to cry around Hettie my neighbor, it would have been okay.  And, we both are going to miss each other so much.  She does not do computer, so I will write her.  I just feel I failed Carolyn.  I wanted to encourage her but it is like trying to teach someone to walk with one leg, when you only have one yourself.  I think we usually do pretty good on here.  Rant, beg, borrow, steal, cry, scream, yell, whatever you want to do.........but screaming does give me a headache.  They put me on a morning hypertensive medicine.  It was not high, but the night time one does not cover the 24 hours.  I think it was 140/80 in the morning.  I know I could bring it down with more weight loss.  To quote Rhett Butler, "Frankly I don't give a damn."  At least not yet.  And, I am not even sure it was him that said that.

 

[iPraiseHim]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 5:36 PM, Gwenivere said:

Thank you, Kay.  I asked are we required to post encouraging and uplifting replies.  I know we are not, but I am in rant mode today for some reason.  That is actually good for me as anger gives me energy to move a little forward.  I'm not one for flowery sentiments or quotes that talk about hardships becoming gifts.  I more like let's say it like it is.  If we come out the other side with more wisdom, that is fantastic.  

Thank you again for the validation.  You don't know what that means to me!  I feel I should send you her fee today.  

At the start of my grief all I could do was rant and vent my grief and pain and bewilderment of it all. Before my wife's death I was able to encourage and exhort others.  It is nice to have encouraging and uplifting posts when we can sincerely supply them.  But if I am not encouraged it is difficult to be encouraging.  In this forum, we post where we are good, bad, and ugly because we need to express to validate ourselves and our pain/grief.  If I thought I could only post positive stuff then I could fall into the trap of pleasing  others and not being authentic to myself.  So where ever we are at, that IS where we are.  It takes each of us our own time and journey to find our own way.  The beauty of this place is to be able to express and get it out of my head.  I never was very good at conforming to someone else's concept of how THEY think I should be.  Just be your authentic self, be kind to the group as you would like to be treated and we can all help each other on this special grief journey we call life.  Shalom - George

[kayc]

No one ever said no one could vent or rant.  I just tried, unsuccessfully I might add, to point things in a more positive direction.  Mia culpa

[Gwenivere]

Not to worry, Kay.  I understand wanting to encourage people.  You always seem to be so positive.  On days us grumps are prowling about, we are gonna be grumps no matter what.  . <----------. That's me today.

[Gwenivere]

3 hours ago, hollowheart said:

As far as what your counselor said, I think we're to often shamed in not being more positive about a better future. 

I feel that is what society and also our friends want, to spout some encouraging sentiment and we instantly puff our chests out and charge through life renewed, thus done with our grief.

Luckily it was a misunderstanding with my counsellor.  We worked it out.  She pointed out, rightfully, that I come up with so many different ways to ask if I am normal in my reactions that she often does not know how to tell me yes in as many different ways I ask.  

There are some great quotes and sentiments out there, and maybe someday I will relate.  Our society is so impatient with grief.  Other cultures have a much deeper understanding of the process.  I think the lost we can do for ourselves is keep reminding people when needed that this journey is much harder than they could ever imagine.  I often tell people I can't talk because I am not in the right place for it mentally.  If they accept that, great.  If not, that's too bad.  I just haven't the energy to appease the masses.

[hollowheart]

13 hours ago, kayc said:

No one ever said no one could vent or rant.  I just tried, unsuccessfully I might add, to point things in a more positive direction.  Mia culpa

A lot of people wrote that I wanted to reply too, but I'll just start here. Kay, I want to say that you have always been someone that has responded to the most of my rants. I always appreciated you coming into the sibling thread and replying to me. It was very lonely over there and you didn't have to bother. Thank you. I absolutely am thankful for you offering encouragement and wanting to turn the dial to positive. I'm not knocking you wanting to make things positive here at all.

I wanna combine that with Mitch replying to me saying how people are mostly praised if they are positive. I wasn't specifically talking about this forum, but as far as this forum/thread goes, it has been very helpful and I'm grateful for it. I come here to rant and vent and also hopefully get encouraged.

Lately I feel like I'm viewed as the "angry old lady" and that was never me at all in the past. Maybe that made me even angrier, I don't know. I know that there are days I am positive, and I try to offer that to others who come, and when I'm pissed off and in a mood, I wanted a place where I could do that too.

Maybe because this is such a different situation for me where I know inspiring words can't instantly fix the situation like they did when I had a sucky day at work and my friends could joke and give me good vibes, we'd have a drink and I'd usually feel better. Maybe it's just me, but sometimes when I vent and rant I just want to be agreed with. It's great when someone goes "Me too, I feel the same way" or "Yeah, I don't blame you. I know how you feel." 

I just need to get it out. My sister and I used to do that all the time, we'd vent, agree, understand the complaints, laugh and move on. It's very frustrating not having that companionship anymore. Not being able to get this out to anyone other than talking to myself.

Next week I might be painting flowers, but I'm just saying that being in a pissed off, rotten mood is just another cycle.

[kayc]

It's another cycle if we don't get stuck in it.  It's interesting how we go to extremes here, like people think we're either negative or painting flowers, when really, most of us are fluctuating somewhere in between.  I just don't want this to be a place where it's always so down no one wants to come here.  That as bad as our day is, if we look we can usually find something good in it.  But it's a mindset, and if we're stuck in a negative mindset (not just having a bad day), we won't see whatever good there might be out there, that's all.

I guess if it's so negative here, someone has the right to skip it.  Same as if it's too positive for some people, they can always skip that.  But I do wish people would be more respectful about it.

[Froggie4635]

I don't want this to come across as an apology; just respectful thoughts about our community here.  The world of grief is a tough place to navigate.  I have made it a habit of not responding to a post that is full of emotion without first letting myself digest all that was said.  I would then decide whether or not to respond.  I never want to respond just to respond.  And sometimes the way I interpret a post changes with the frame of mind I am in.  When we are down in a low place, we just want to be heard.  Putting the words down releases it from our soul.  I guess since I have taken the grief writing courses a couple of times (and how my responses to the prompts changed so much from October to March), I have taken my writing for the most part private.  Now I present things to my friends here to perhaps get a different viewpoint.  Some posts here just tear my heart out; bring the emotions right to the surface; some posts cause me concern for the person posting. It has always been a safe place to come, but I find myself standing back sometimes.  I never want to do/say anything  that would be counter-productive, that would cause anyone to feel picked on or not heard.  There have been many people who have come through here, and then never come back.  Perhaps they found something to send them in a new direction; perhaps they felt hurt or misunderstood.  We all know that our grief journey is unique and individual, and this is a good place to reach out, and to support and uplift and reassure.  I know when I am in a down place, reading something that sounds too positive doesn't sit well with me.  But I do not respond because I don't want to squelch the good intentions of that positive message.  I respect everyone here far too much.  The same goes for when I am having a good period, and I feel more hopeful.  Reading negative responses to positive ones defeats the purpose.  We are sometimes in very sensitive places in our lives, and feel alone and lost.  The fact that we all continue to come here and keep posting shows we want to keep moving along our journey.  Marty has created this forum for us and all those who need help.  I feel privileged to be a part of it.

[kayc]

14 minutes ago, Froggie4635 said:

 I have made it a habit of not responding to a post that is full of emotion without first letting myself digest all that was said.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

 But I do not respond because I don't want to squelch the good intentions of that positive message.

These are good points to keep in mind, Maryann, your post was good and helpful.

[MartyT]

In his essay, What You Give Me, widower Mark Liebenow describes "some of the gifts we give each other when we share our grief." I'd like to think he could be writing about us:

When people who are grieving gather together, whether this is at a retreat or at a grief Dinner Party, they talk about their struggles and they support each other. They cry together and they celebrate.

Those who are grieving know how hard it is to be vulnerable in front of others. Too many people have shut us down or turned away because our emotions were too strong or went on for longer than they thought they should. But when we are among others who are grieving, among our tribe, we feel accepted, and by sharing our struggles, we begin to work our way through them. Read on here >>>

[Margm]

Last night I had to confront a note I had written Billy after we bought the RV.  I won't go into what was said, but suffice it to know, it made me cry, but maybe because he knew how I felt.  I felt I had let him down at the last, but after 54 years, that man knew he was my life and when his ended, he had to know that most of mine ended also.  The only part remaining is the part that he decreed "the one left must stay."  Believe you me, if he can hear me, he has heard my words of wrath about that.

Now, to another thing, since the theme seems to be something I cannot comprehend, because my mind lets some things sink in,  some things wash off like water off a ducks back.  I will address that now.  In my estimation, there are no "sides" to take.  We all suffer.  If I read something that hits me in the face, that I agree with, I "like" it.  

I wrestle with my faith.  I admit that being brought up in the Missionary Baptist church, there are some things I believe in.  If you do not believe that way, that is totally your business.  In some countries, they are not allowed to have their own religion.  Maybe those countries take their faith as a privilege instead of a burden. It is a privilege to me too.  I remember opening the doors of the church and looking at the sky, I was afraid the world was going to end and I had got left behind.  "Matthew 10:33 says New International Version: But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven."  So, in wrestling with  my own faith, this is something I cannot deny.  If you have a different belief, like I said, that is your own business.  We have all lost our partners, our mates, our reason for living. But, if you do not believe like I do and I like something you say, I am not taking sides.  We have no "sides".  We all suffer.

We are all human, we all make mistakes, and a lot of times we say the wrong thing.  A lot of times well meaning people hurt us.  They say the wrong thing to us and it stings at that moment.  We have got to understand, we are all here for a reason and that is to give hope, voice our feelings, and also to show if we have even had one moment of happiness.  Myself, I am sorry if I offended anyone.  My wish most times is to offer some humor;  I sometimes do that and it falls as hard as a pregnant elephant.

But, when I bleed, the blood is just as red as yours, mine, and ours.  Sometimes we have anger.  Well, that is an emotion.  We are all emotional, and I honestly feel akin to each of you on this forum.  You have helped me very much.  I can see where religion should not be offered.  But, I also saw that with that wee grandchild of one of our members, we offered prayers.  Not trying to make any point except that we ask for help from various sources.  We all have a belief.  We are all from different cultures..

I will address this to George.  I sure wish you lived closer.  This cleaning out a house to put on the market is hard work.  I appreciate your services to the people in your community.  It is well worth any price.  

 

[Margm]

Mama used to tell me that she always told the teachers to whip the kid sitting beside me instead of whipping me.  She said that because I always feel like the guilty culprit and if someone else is "punished" then it is the same as punishing me.

So, I feel guilty about everything, whether I am or not.  Does not  matter.  I always think "oh no, I have hurt someone's feelings."  

Now, I am on my way to the big terrible city.  I wish only peace for all of us.  I suffer, you suffer, he suffers, they suffer.  

 

[mittam99]

2 hours ago, Marg M said:

 

In my estimation, there are no "sides" to take.  We all suffer. 

We have got to understand, we are all here for a reason and that is to give hope, voice our feelings, and also to show if we have even had one moment of happiness. 

Marg, you got that right! There are no "sides" in grief and as you said, we are all suffering. And as you said the idea of this forum is to both voice our feelings (good and bad) and give others a reason for hope. I believe that, without hope, this grief journey is nearly impossible.

We are all here because we've lost our soul mate, our companion, our lover, our best friend... our everything. We come here because we are hurting. We come here looking for some measure of comfort and understanding. We come here to vent. We come here to tell others that there is some lightness in this dark sea of grief. We come here because others who haven't gone through a loss like this don't understand us in any way. We come here because we are angry. We come here because we feel guilt. We come here because we are trying anything that might ease the pain. We come here to honor our lost love. The list of reasons we're at this grief forum is long.

All of us are now living in a world that has been changed forever. It's like imagining your worst nightmare scenario and multiplying it by 1,000. This new life can be downright miserable, At times if doesn't even feel like we have a life.

But somewhere along the way, the hope is that we do find a measure of comfort in this bleak world. No, we won't be living it with the person that we really want to be with. It will never be the same. But we human beings are a resilient bunch and as dark as things seem now there is a future for all of us. And dare I say, some happiness to be found.

I for one am grateful for Marty's forum. Members here have helped me and taught me and at times, given me the hope I needed to go on.

[hollowheart]

5 minutes ago, mittam99 said:

This has me confused.  I've reread my reply to you a number of times and there is nothing even close to that in my remarks (see link below).

All I was suggesting was that, in my grief, when I was at my lowest, I kept an open mind when folks posted hopeful remarks. And I said I hope that your pain is lifted in the future.

 

Argh! All this replying is coming off the wrong way and getting confusing. I was trying to paraphrase that, and say that I was replying to you picking out something I said earlier. When I wrote the 'praised if they are positive' part I was talking about what *I* wrote earlier.

I understand what you are saying about when you are down you want to be open to being uplifted. Nothing wrong with that and I agree with you. I know that is what this forum is for, to help us feel better. I was just trying to say that sometimes when I'm down I don't want to be cheered up. Sometimes when you vent, it's just that, you just need to vent.

But I just wanted to say that to hopefully clear it up that I was not trying to attack or anything, and I apologize for any misunderstanding.

[mittam99]

All good HH. I now see how you meant it.

It's all part of this confusing, mixed up, crazy world of grief.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Froggie4635 said:

And sometimes the way I interpret a post changes with the frame of mind I am in.  When we are down in a low place, we just want to be heard.  

I believe that a significant part of the psychoses of grief is that our moods/thoughts are is a state of constant flux.  On any given day I can go from the depths of depression to gratitude and back to depression.  My responses vary accordingly.  I do appreciate the positives as well as the negatives and everything in between because all comments can reflect what I am feeling; if not now what I may easily feel in the next few minutes or hours.  I know I have been taken to task for being too grateful in the past and yet for me gratitude gives me temporary respite from the darkness that can envelop my mind.  I thrill when I see others make major strides in their own journeys; Mitch immediately jumps to mind.  These changes illustrate clearly what hopefully lies ahead for me. I understand that when people are struggling it is difficult for them to read Pollyannaish comments; I find hope in them but others don't.  I need to know that this pain is not permanent; that I will someday have more good days than bad.  

It is difficult to freely express one's thoughts without running the risk of offending others.  This is why I miss our friend from Brussels so much.  She is so good at finding the heart of comments posted and reflecting them back with such caring and compassion.  I envy her that. 

[mittam99]

4 minutes ago, Brad said:

I understand that when people are struggling it is difficult for them to read Pollyannaish comments; I find hope in them but others don't.  I need to know that this pain is not permanent; that I will someday have more good days than bad.  

Brad, I totally get what you're saying about the Pollyana-ish stuff. The world of sunshine and lollipops seems very far fetched when you feel like you're in the depths of hell. I've been in those depths. And the reason my posts are now more hopeful is that I'm living proof that life does go on after we lose our beloved. We do grow and adapt and function and yes, even smile from time to time.

[Froggie4635]

I too am feeling as Mitch is; a little lighter and not so gloomy.  But I also know this could change in the next hour if a trigger presents itself.  Part of this is helped by blocking the thought of what could be.  I don't let myself think of my life without Mark.  Not right now.  I am trying to focus on me, in the moment.  The hurt and the missing are still there, I just keep it at bay right now.  I'm not saying that I have had an epiphany or anything.  I still get very tired from the grief, and motivation is minimal.  But I don't feel like there will never be light for me.  While I am feeling this way, I am going to enjoy the respite for a bit.

[MartyT]

Dear ones, I just feel a need to clarify something.

HH said "I know that is what this forum is for, to help us feel better. I was just trying to say that sometimes when I'm down I don't want to be cheered up." 

The forums offered on this site are not for helping anyone to feel better, nor are they here to cheer us up. Our purpose is to offer reliable information, comfort and support to those who are anticipating or mourning the loss of a loved one, whether that is a person or a cherished companion animal. Most of the comfort and support comes from our members as we share our individual stories and extend understanding, empathy and compassion toward one another. I monitor the site and answer specific questions about the normal grief process. I also find, review and share valid and reliable information and resources with everyone here ~ and many of you do that on this site as well. We're not here to discount, minimize or take away anyone's pain. We are here to honor that pain and to help each other find ways to endure it. Some of us may find ways not only to endure the pain but eventually to transcend and even triumph over it. Another person's way may not work for everyone, but if we keep sharing what we've discovered and what has worked for us, maybe others will see something that will work for them, too, if they're willing to give it a try. At the very least, it may offer hope that if it worked for one of us, it may work for someone else, too.

Each of us is at a different point in our own grief journey and, as we've said so many times here, grief changes and we will change with it. We are not the same as we were before our loss happened to us, and most of us still don't know who we are after, or who we will become.

We're all struggling to discover "Who am I now?" That is a very BIG question, and it takes time and thinking and effort to discover the answers. We're all learning new ways of being and new ways of doing, in our own time-frame and at our own rate of speed. Let us be patient ~ with ourselves and with one another.