If You're Going Through Hell

[Margm]

Sorry.  The fish were very alive when released.  I did use to fish for food though.  Nope, we were just sport fishing, not for food though.  Although if one happened to be harmed, we would take it, fillet it and put it in the freezer.  No excuse.  

But, after I get my license I will do it again.  

[Gwenivere]

I hope I didn’t offend you, Marg.  I don’t get fishing just like I don’t get golf Seattle has so much land set aside for that when we could use more parks for everyone.  But business is business and obviously people enjoy it.  I like target and skeet shooting but that is seriously restricted here unlike in New Mexico where you just had to drive out into the desert and there was a lot of that!  Do you have shrimp boats down there?  Love that stuff. We have crab potters here.  Yummy stuff.

[kayc]

With me, fishing was more about the setting, it gave you something to do in the peace of nature.  We always ate them...well I did before I became allergic.  I guess pregnancy messed up my hormones so it's the price I pay for having had my son.  There's something about having nothing to do but enjoy the day, watch the ripples in the water, enjoy the immense beauty of the Northwest.

I never cared for the desert, to me it appears desolate, godforsaken, I don't even like the smell of sagebrush.  "Not a tree to mar the view" to me is not a good thing but I've known people who felt that way.  Guess we were all made different.

[Margm]

3 hours ago, kayc said:

in the peace of nature. 

I don't have a lion, bear, deer, boar, or anything else on the wall, but I do have a bass I caught on one of our anniversary fishing trips.  I think it is a personal choice, it was our hobby.  I had to get him to sign a paper to quit buying bass boats.  We had sold and bought so many.  We had a house built on Lake Bistineau.  We cleared off our two acres on the water and we had our "retirement" home built.  He caught an eight pounder off the dock that was built way out in the water in a "T" shape, built into the cypress trees and the moss.  Took us years to clear the trees out, spent many an hour digging plumbing lines to the septic tank.  Going to sit on the porch the rest of our life.  We lived 2-3 lifetimes in the "rest of our life" and wound up RVing and taking care to get my son off drugs.  Spent over 20 years in another state.  Billy fly fished the running rivers, I small mouth bass fished.  We caught and released all those 20 years, unless we were hungry.  Not as many catfish restaurants in AR.  A plant called "salvia" took over our big lake and they are still fighting it.  We did keep and eat many of the fish.  Billy used to beat me fishing most times.  I've put this on here before.  We took them home and cleaned them.  Billy was adept at using a fillet knife and I helped clean the other fish.  We used to have big fish fries on the "creek" in younger years where the whole big family fished, big kettle, women folks cut up the tomatoes, everyone cleaned the fish.  Older woman is my great grandmother, who I was named after.  She would find her fishing place on the creek and if she did not catch any fish, she would not eat them.  I think it safe to say our life evolved around fishing.  We had no money when first married and as soon as he came in from work in the summer month, spring, autumn (not cold weather for me), we would  hit the borrow pits off the main bayou.  This was north Louisiana.  It had mussel's and crayfish, but we only ate the fish.  It probably was one of the biggest parts of my life.  Then the industries (which are by law not supposed to empty into our water systems,) we would read not to eat the fish out of different places for different reasons, but mostly unlawful waste from different companies.  I quit eating them then.  We would have something about them having excess chemicals in the water, in the fish.  Not to swim in places.   Made catch and release easier to do, the only thing to do.  Just part of southern life. 

Happy Father's Day.  Last picture was a young one of my dad.   

[MartyT]

Ah, the memories, dear Marg! My father (the surgeon) took off every Wednesday afternoon from his medical practice to go fishing on one of his patient's private lakes in northern Michigan. When my sister and I got home from school, we'd rush to the basement of our home to see if there were any freshly-caught bass swimming in the laundry sink. Then we gathered around as Daddy would give us an anatomy lesson as he cleaned the fish. He'd always carefully remove and dissect the fish's stomach so he'd learn what the fish had been feeding on. In his later years, he performed the same service for his grandsons:

[Margm]

Oh so many memories Marty.  My dad (and Billy) would clean a catfish and show me a part of it that had a balloon shaped piece of the insides and it would float in water, like a balloon.  My mom, coming straight from the farm, in season the female fish had a yellow sac full of eggs.  She would clean the fish and place the eggs back in the cavity of the fish while frying them.  (I have to admit, I never ate the eggs), although she called them caviar.  (This from a country girl who would fight with brothers and sisters over who got to eat the squirrel brains.) Billy ate one of those fish (with the eggs) and when we left he told me there were some fish he could not eat because they had not cleaned the inside of the fish.  (that was the egg sac) and he thought they had not cleaned the whole fish.  I had to explain about that.  

I got to witness my dad cleaning them too, on newspaper and telling me the parts of the fish.  Those are memories that cannot be taken away.  My grandparents raised their kids during the "great depression" and living on a farm, going to town once or twice a year, they were self sufficient and did not know the "great depression" was going on.  

Thank you so much for the pictures, the memories.  I have many in boxes I have not opened yet.  

"Many of the most highly publicized events of my presidency are not nearly as memorable or significant in my life as fishing with my daddy."
- Jimmy Carter

[MartyT]

1 hour ago, Marg M said:

"Many of the most highly publicized events of my presidency are not nearly as memorable or significant in my life as fishing with my daddy."
- Jimmy Carter

What a treasure of a quotation this is, dear Marg ~ thank you for sharing! ❤️

[KarenK]

My dad was not a fisherman, nor a hunter although we spent a lot of time in the mountains  parked next to creeks or lakes in our little travel trailer on our many treks through the west. He was not a gun person either. Total opposite of Ron in so many ways, yet they both were a commanding presence in my life. I was an outdoors person from the first moment I rode that horse through the pines 62 years ago so our personalities meshed in a lot of ways. I love fishing, but more for the atmosphere. I don't have the patience, won't bait a hook with anything alive, and won't take a fish off the hook. I guess I'm a "faux" fisherman. Don't like hunting. Love to see the animals in the wild. Just don't want to kill them. I'll fire a gun for protection. I love the outdoors for the beauty, peace, and freedom.

[Gwenivere]

Dont like hunting either.  Seen too many deer close up and how beautiful they are.  Their displacement when wandering into yards is of our doing.  We’ve even had bears come into the city.  In Seattle we keep cutting back land they live in.  Unfortunately sometimes they pay the price. I applaud when they sedate and-move them back deeper into their environment.  

[KarenK]

The huge fire burning northeast of us must be a real monster. It is about 35 miles away and you can see the big plume of smoke looking out my back window. It has consumed 150,000 acres and still going strong. It's probably close to Fountain Hills which is a very affluent area of huge homes as well as a casino. Never thought it would get that far.

[Gin]

Stay safe, Karen.  Sure hope it stays FAR away.  Gin

[Margm]

Karen, years ago when we went on our first trip into Arizona, we went down what was called at that time "666" and since been named some other number.  There was a tree that had lots of arrows through it down in a valley that I never could understand.  I talked to a fellow who wrote for Arizona Highways (I think) and he could not tell me anything about it.  I had one of the first cell phones, paid by the minutes, and I saw smoke up in those mountains (bordering Arizona and New Mexico), probably Mogollon Rim, White Mountains.  I got a signal but could not call and report the fire.  Saw a sign saying "controlled burn" and they probably would have told me to go back to Louisiana.  I know you all get a lot of fires and the monsoon season is still a way off.  Keep your windows closed and stay inside.  Know you don't need the smoke.  And, I found those mountains fascinatingly beautiful.  We stayed in one of our group's RV parks in Benson.  I got to see Win Bundy's Singing Wind Bookshop.  She left us alone inside (I was in book heaven) while she looked for her cat.  I asked her if there was much land that she owned (it was on a ranch) and she said only one section (what I found out was 600+ acres).  I loved it out there.  You can live in the hot area but a short drive will take you to a completely livable place (if there are no forest fires).  

[KarenK]

Marg, Route 666 was know as Devil's Highway,  the numbers a definite stigma. Know for lots of accidents and strange happenings. It's also The Coronado Trail. It was renumbered in 2003 to US 191, I think. I remember traveling down it facing backward in our station wagon. I was hanging into Robert's infant feet to keep him from rolling around as he slept in the back. Fun ride. NO LAUGHING!

The tree is known as the Arrow Tree. Nothing special about it. Just a favorite for archers to shoot while trying to hit as close to the top as possible.(I googled it)

 

[Margm]

You know, we must have gone in the latter 90's.  I took pictures of that tree and the terrain was such I could never figure out how they could get a shot to go straight through the tree.  You want to know something ridiculous, we didn't have Google back then and I have never thought of googling it.  I feel so "lost in time" and thank you.  I loved it out there, I loved Reserve, NM and Luna, NM.  I think the Blue or Black River.  Billy dreamed of getting back there.  We were going to camp on Escudilla Mountain and I got a bad feeling about that place.  I think it was up from Alpine.  We planned on heading down whatever river that was next to the NM border.  Billy had always wanted to stay for awhile in that area and I just felt our kids would do something to make us leave, so I didn't want to stay long anywhere.  I was right and we had to go rescue the boy.  Never went back.  Even long married people have plans too.  I got off on a tangent.  Memory.  

Went back and looked up the tree and I think in June of 2019 it fell.  I'd like to tell Billy, and I probably will, but somehow I guess it does not matter to him.  

 

[Gwenivere]

Being someone who grew up in New Mexico, I’m learning stuff I never knew!  For living and work my stomping grounds were Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Taos, Los Alamos and Las Cruces.  Made one trek to Roswell.  Lots of people travelled by Route 66 before the interstates kicked in.  That became Central Avenue, the cruising street at night for us youngin's.  My dad took us all over to ruins and off the road places to explore.  Found little lakes and fields exploring with college friends.  I don’t know if it’s still the record, but the tram from ABQ to the summit of the Rockies was the country’s longest.  Took it several times as there was a restaurant at the top and the view of the city was awesome.  My uncle had a ranch that was a kids dream.  He had salt licks out that brought deer during the day and at night you could hear mountain lions on the decks and roofs plodding around.  You’re right, Marg.......memories.

[Kieron]

Gwen, that's really interesting... I happened to visit New Mexico for the first time last October, late in the month and into the first few days of November.  It was my first solo trip of this type since Mark died.  I stayed in Albuquerque but traveled north to Santa Fe and then south as far as Socorro.  What a beautiful countryside in some respects, but nevertheless stark and so dry.  Coming from a land where we have a lot of lakes, rivers, creeks and streams, that was a hard adjustment.  I went through a lot of moisturizer!  I've considered relocating there more than once... the trip was exploratory, on several levels, to see if I liked it enough to want to stay, and to see how I handled being away from home.  I jokingly described it as "an away team of one" to a Star Trek friend.  I still think off and on about it.. especially when we have endless stretches of cloudy days here.

[KarenK]

Most of my time in New Mexico was spent in Gallup or Zuni buying Native American jewelry or crafts. Definitely a barren landscape. The government certainly did those people no favors by locating them there. As a kid, I spent a lot of time in Carlsbad where my cousin lived. I have never really seen the beautiful parts of the state.

[Gwenivere]

Karen, did you go to the caverns in Carlsbad?  I went as a kid and was in awe.  

Kieron, I miss sunshine soooooo much here in Seattle for 9 months of the year. I do love the green and flowers, but the desert has its own beauty that I guess someone that grew up there would really understand.  The nirthern part of the state is pretty green.  One thing I do miss is the lack of humidity.  Hot and cold felt so much different in a dry climate.  80 degrees here is smothering but very comfortable there.  The parks are like parks here, lush and green.  It’s not THAT barren down there.  There is a huge lake called Elephant Butte.  Til I knew that, as a kid, I didn’t understand why some people had boats.  It’s much more developed than hen I lived there now.  I’m not sure I would want to go back because of simpler memories.  Last time I was down there was in the 90’s and except for the glorious sunshine In January, I don’t know how I’d adjust to the 'big city' changes.  I’m too old to move anyway and everyone I knew is gone except one close friend from long ago.  Another wild Oman hitting the bars and dancing nights away to country rock. 🙂

[KarenK]

Gwen, when Robert was a baby we headed out on a cross country trip to visit Washington DC. In New Mexico, he became very ill with a high fever. Fairly close to Carlsbad we diverted there as my cousin was there and she worked for a doctor. Turned out he had a horrendous ear infection and we ended up staying with them for a week. She took care of him for a while and we toured the cavern. I remember mostly running to the bottom and taking the elevator back up. We didn't want to be away too long, but it was beautiful. We never made it to Washington DC. I have been in all the caverns in Az(except Kartchner) and lava tubes we discovered bumming around. The lava tubes are not maintained and require crawling down over big boulders to enter. A bit scary, but we had caving equipment. Lava tubes are not pretty, just big black tunnels. Robert went on a private tour of Kartchner with his college geology class. It is spectacular and pristine. Very strict rules. I have been in Mammoth Cave in Ky twice. Second tour was about 6 hours long and required hand over hand climbing. Not easy for a smoker.  LOL  I love that kind of stuff, but probably couldn't manage it anymore. Gotta love old age! Didn't mean to write a book on this. Just some of my better memories, except for the sick baby.

I wish I'd seen more of New Mexico. I've been through Shiprock and Farmington on the way to Colorado and I remember a little hole in the wall Mexican place in Lordsburg. Been there a couple of times. Great food(40 years ago). I lost track of my cousin many,many years ago. At one time, she and her husband lived in Cochiti Lakes near Santa Fe. One day I was messing around on Realtor.com and an address looked familiar. It was her house, so maybe he died. Just looking up her name, she might be back in Carlsbad. 

[Kieron]

I never got further north than Santa Fe but would like to, next time.  The road to Socorro was like a moonscape as I recall.  But once I got to the Bosque del Apache, there was a big lake crowded with snow geese, sandhill cranes wintering, and bald eagles looking for a meal, among other wildlife. And it's such a big state!  I had hoped to go to White Sands monument but it was 200 miles one way so I decided to save it for next trip... if this damned pandemic would quit.

 

[Margm]

4 hours ago, Kieron said:

The road to Socorro was like a moonscape as I recall. 

We visited NM every year on vacation since 1969.  Billy's sister lives in the Rio Grande section below Albuquerque.  A Louisiana girl, she could not get used to the "plains" section where her husband grew up, I think it is called Moriarty.  Our RV club (Escapee's) had their parks in the lower part of Texas, Arizona, and NM.  Our first trip was to the Sandia Mountains, the tram and the top of the mountains.  I sat on the floor of the tram.  Was very afraid.  Albuquerque at night is unimaginably beautiful.  Our first trips involved the Northeast section of NM, Santa Fe, Red River, Cimmaron.  It was so beautiful, I could not imagine going down I-25 to Las Cruces as being so nice.  The distance between the beautiful places seemed so tremendous, I did not want to try.  Alamagordo seemed so far away.  To think, I would have missed all the fruit trees, I would have missed camping on the tiny Rio Penasco in the apple orchard, Billy catching the tiny trout in the "river" I could step across.  Camped in the apple orchard, a spring coming out of the ground where we kept our watermelon, the orchard, the stark red cliff mountain right on the other side of the tiny river (in Louisiana it would not have been big enough to call anything but a stream.  I would have missed the whole Sacramento Mountain part of NM that was even prettier than the northern NM.  The length of time to get to Deming (to our home park) was daunting, then driving day trips to the boothill, to the Chiricahua Mountains across the border in Arizona.  Like being in another country and I imagined Geronimo hiding in all the Hoodoo mountain shapes.  There was a place called Paradise and it all was.  I was so enraptured with NM, I preferred it over the old western towns in Colorado.  A truly inspiring group of "mountain islands."  And they grow cherry trees and apples in abundance.  Even have a winery in Deming (although to me, Deming is forgettable), I'm sorry Deming.  But we took the road from there up to Silver City.  This is the SW part of the state I missed for years.  Out of Silver City is a small town "with history in abundance" called Pinos Altos.  Locals called it PA, although I thought the meaning "tall pines" was beautiful.  You enter the Gila Wilderness this way and a road off of I-25 takes you to a road that will bring you into the Black Range and the small mountain town of Hillsboro and you are in the Aldo Leopold Wilderness.  Head west and you will see Bear Lake, Lake Roberts, and you are in the Gila Wilderness.  If you had turned off I-25 (look on a map) you would have gone through the town of Magdalena, (I read a book "No Life for a Lady"), the autobiography of Agnes Morley Cleaveland.  She lived way up in the mountains around Datil.  That will take you into an old west town of Reserve.  There is history and beauty here.  A man named Elfego Baca lived here.  I think Burt Lancaster played him in the movie. (Name???).  Head up into the Gila from there we saw our first real mountain lion.   San Francisco River runs through this town and you have many ways you can go..  You can go to Glenwood and walk the "catwalk" or back down to Silver City (a college town, a lot of history).  Best be said, there is not much of NM I have not seen.  When we were not there, we were dreaming of being there.    

We had planned on going again.  We had the new RV.  Billy's brother-in-law had us a RV hookup next to his house.  We bought the new RV in March, found out the bad news last day of August, he was gone by the middle of October.  See, even old married people still had plans.  We were lucky to have had so many years to see all of this, and more, but we still had plans.  I can never go back to that beautiful state.  It was mine and Billy's and cannot be just mine, even though I am him and he is me.     

Once we took the RV to an adult camp around Mimbres, NM and they asked to see our license.  Thought we were too young back in the 90's.  We weren't.  If we could have gone back, they would not have had to check our age.  We would have fit in with the other elders.  

 

[Margm]

19 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

I applaud when they sedate and-move them back deeper into their environment.  

Just like the Native Americans, we have taken over the wildlife's habitat.  Behind our apartments is a huge field, empty, except for the deer that still come.  Behind this field, their normal habitat, was woods, now it is filled with large luxurious homes.  Their habitat has gone.  Tell them to move "on down the road."  I did not agree with killing of the deer, a truly innocent, beautiful animal, but we have taken over their native habitat.  Possibly they will have enough sense to move into the national/state forest that is up the road.  I laughed at the word "harvest" instead of the horrid word "kill."  Then I learned a lesson in wilderness living, animal habitats, us taking up all their forage.  The population will outgrow the amount of land they can live on.  I hated "harvesting" them.  Then I was shown them dying from starvation.  Don't think about the living conditions the chicken we eat have to live in.  Don't think of the way they kill your "steak."  It is not pretty.  My granddaughter is fast becoming a vegan.  She goes more into the "animal rights" way of life too.  I cannot eat many vegetables, and then cooked, or I would prefer vegetarian also.  There were times in my life I did live vegetarian, once for years as macrobiotic.  

[kayc]

18 hours ago, KarenK said:

The huge fire burning northeast of us must be a real monster. It is about 35 miles away and you can see the big plume of smoke looking out my back window. It has consumed 150,000 acres and still going strong. It's probably close to Fountain Hills which is a very affluent area of huge homes as well as a casino. Never thought it would get that far.

What?!  I hadn't read about it yet...praying it stays clear, I'm sure they'll fight it aggressively as so many people/homes there.

15 hours ago, Marg M said:

June of 2019 it fell.

That is when my father was born!

7 hours ago, KarenK said:

A bit scary, but we had caving equipment.

OMG, I used to go caving when I was young!  Totally forgot about that, haven't thought of it in probably 49 years!

I grew up cutting up and eating venison.  Spent 23 years married to a hunter, spent MANY a time cutting up deer and elk!  I remember them bringing an elk to my home (gutted and quartered, thankfully), dropped it off, I called all the wives and we had a "cutting up" party.  I told the men they'd better not complain about how it was done!  They didn't so we must have done well...rule of thumb, cut across the grain, best meat goes for steaks, then stew meat, pile for scrap/garbage, the rest for hamburger.  Never cared for roasts out of game as they're so dry...venison 7% fat, elk 4%, love the flavor of venison, but elk is easier to make into dishes as not as gamy.  Don't know if I could kill one...thinking not, I love watching them on my place and forbid anyone to hunt here as I want this to be  their refuge.  

 

[Gin]

My daughter and SIL came over today for a short visit.my niece and brother came, also.  We sat in the yard far apart.  My brother is sinking further into dementia.  He seemed pretty good today and was happy to see us. When they left, I came in and cried.   I will probably never see my brother again.  They are taking him to Florida in another week.   And it will be many weeks to see my daughter.  More and more losses. It’s hard to keep fighting!   Gin

[KarenK]

Gin, I'm so sorry. I can only imagine how you must feel. Time and this virus is stealing so much from so many. I hope your brother will do well in Florida where someone can care for him. Hoping you get a chance to visit him in the future.