Is this "normal" after traumatic bereavement?

[marionette]

Can anyone perhaps listen and talk with me, as I am feeling confused and finding it hard to sleep / think straight because my head is so jumbled from this situation.  It's a strange situation and I have been trying very hard to "do the right thing" and "be understanding", but I feel very lost.  I usually have pretty good dating boundaries, but the circumstances of this have definitely caused a situation where I have become trapped in a situation I do not want to be in.

The first 6 weeks were okay, then after the funeral, he just changed and started behaving very differently.

Avoiding seeing me. Making plans and "something" coming up to make it not happen.  Texting rather than calling.  C

I am truly emotionally exhausted.

The rejection seems to be so constant, but littered with his declarations of love, of how great I am, of how much he does not want to lose me and it is just enough to stop me walking away but so little that I feel alone.  

Can anyone tell me if any of this behavior he is doing is normal after a traumatic bureavement?  Or if you feel he is just playing with me and this is a red herring?

[kayc]

Yes his behavior is normal for one grieving.  We all handle grief differently, yet I've seen enough of this to know that it is a normal response for a segment of grievers.  Many of them break up because they can't deal with the grief and the relationship at the same time.  They view everything in life differently.  Grief changes you.  He's lost not one but both parents and it's shaken up his world.

I do hope he's getting grief counseling because when you're hit this hard, it's very hard to navigate your way through it without help.  A professional grief counselor is trained to guide one through the process of grief.

You can only decide for yourself how much you can take and need, ultimately, to do what is best for you.  If you see no light at the end of the tunnel, it's going to be pretty difficult to navigate your way through this.  Six months feels like a very long time to feel rejection...yet six months is a drop in the bucket of grief.  Understand it is not personal, but it FEELS very personal.  It is not rejection but it FEELS like rejection.  

No, I doubt very seriously if he is seeing someone.  I doubt he is a player.  

Any relationship talk will push him away.  It's very hard, when someone responds to grief in this way, to make it through with the relationship intact.  You are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position.  I'm very sorry...been there.  In my case, my fiance broke up with me and went no contact, but months later we resumed phone contact, although sporadic, at his pace.  Years later we are friends but that's all.  Neither of us has dated anyone since.  It's affected my ability to trust and his ability to trust himself.

[marionette]

Thank you for replying Kayc.

I really appreciate it.

do you still love your fiance?  do you know why he turned away from you?

I am sorry.  I lost my fiance a few years ago (passed away) so I have known losses of my own and it's very hard - but should imagine pretty awful to feel like they had a choice.

[I Don't Believe This]

Unfortunately this is very normal.

If you read the other stories here you will see it is very normal. However, the stories here are all from people who have lost their loves so logically it would make sense to ask, "What about all the people who don't push away?"

I have been doing a lot of research into this trying to figure out how to deal with my own situation. I have come to the conclusion that there this sort of behavior is linked to someone's attachment style. Some people avoid attachment to avoid vulnerability. Even before all the losses my girlfriend suffered I could sense a bit of insecurity in this area. Even though we loved each other. 

The stress of this situation just brought all of that to the forefront. She is still avoiding attachment - only much more intently. I do see her slowly coming back around but it is very slowly and even when there is a good day - for instance yesterday she seemed almost as if she was back to six months ago - I am still wary that she will suddenly change and push me away again.

People with a more secure attachment style don't push others away.

The trick I am finding is to understand her, understand her attachment style and be very careful about what I say and do. It is a strenuous activity. Not one I recommend unless you are really in this for the long haul. Every day I question why am I working so hard for her. Why don't I protect myself. Sometimes you need to protect yourself.

Your boyfriend might also want to see a grief counselor.

[marionette]

When my fiance died, I didn't push people away. If anything I clung to people / anyone to try and fill the void and didn't want to be alone.  I just wanted people to be in the house with me so I could sleep.

I will read some of the messages here and see if I can draw some wisdom from them. You are quite right. He hates vulnerability.  I want to make it work, I want to fight for it because it's been a long time since I loved someone and felt potential to be happy.  Hard to walk away from, and also don;t think he even wants me to do that.

The situation really as it stands is that he keeps me at arms length.  He came closer briefly, for a few weeks started to talk to me every day again for hours and open up, but when I pressured him to see me /spend actual time with me - he pushed me away.  He starts arguments by doing something he knows will anger me - like cancelling a date when I have a babysitter.  It's sabotage behaviour.

If I try and walk away he gets very sad.  He is also insanely jealous.  He is constantly messaging me at night demanding to know where I am / who I am with and getting very jealous or upset if I am out, which is exhausting because I am completely loyal to him although he will not see me.

Very occasionally he has admitted reality.  His last message to me was this:

"I don't want you to let me go or for you to go away.  I like you a lot.   I miss you if we don't speak and whatever I do you always remain in my head.   I think about you a lot and I think we have a rare connection and I know I could love you.  But people I love tend to disappear and this is a fact.  You know me better than most people, very few people know me properly and you know the real me and it makes me feel vulnerable.  I don't like how it feels. I feel like I will mess it up.  It feels safer to keep you at a distance because I am worried I won't live up to what you want"

It is this sort of thing.

He has not had counselling, maybe he will. He is losing a lot of weight and has been drinking.

The worst of it is the silent treatment.  He will literally ignore me for 2 - 3 weeks.  I can text him and he will completely ignore the messages.  Every time I feel like he is never going to speak to me again.  He has done this three times now

That entire time I am wrestling with thinking he doesn't care about me AT ALL and when he comes back he seems so relieved he hasn't lost me, determined to "come good" and then he does it again.

 

[I Don't Believe This]

I found this a while ago.

http://www.psychalive.org/7-reasons-most-people-are-afraid-of-love/

It seems that grief amplifies these behaviors. Because now you have a loss on top of behaviors that were already present. 

In the article I linked my girlfriend seems to have the most synergy with sections 1, 5 and 7. She fears the vulnerability, and she feels that right now our love is unequal. She feels guilty that I am in love with her when she is "Broken and she doesn't deserve me" (her words). 

This

14 minutes ago, marionette said:

If I try and walk away he gets very sad.  He is also insanely jealous.  He is constantly messaging me at night demanding to know where I am / who I am with and getting very jealous or upset if I am out, which is exhausting because I am completely loyal to him although he will not see me.

is terribly selfish behavior. You need to be strong enough to make a boundary on this. I think the only reason my girlfriend and I even have a chance is she does not do this. Otherwise I would have quit. My girlfriend wants me to get out and be happy. I went to my sisters for a few weeks and my sister dragged me out to parties. I didn't cheat on my girlfriend, she trusts me, and she was happy that I was out doing something fun rather than sitting around waiting for her.

 

[marionette]

It is very selfish.

He wants me to go out and have fun, but he is obsessed with the idea that I am going to be with someone else, although seeing as he's refused to see me for months - that feels incredibly selfish too.

I don't feel like I can win.

I am just tired.

the silent treatment is the worst for me.  Would rather he argued or told me he was depressed or cried or whatever else than the silent treatment.

[I Don't Believe This]

In this case you need to cut off contact. Kay is who I call the wise woman of these forums and I am sure she will back this up. Just because he is going through a rough time it is no excuse to treat you poorly. 

I would give him one last message stating that the treatment is unacceptable and that for some specified period of time - 3 months, 6 months whatever you want no contact whatsoever. Then after that time reach out and see how he is doing.

[marionette]

I guess that's actually very true.

I never knew what was happening, so it was hard to decide.

The first 1.5 months, he was a gem to me.  I mean, despite the circumstances he was so considerate to me, literally kept reassuring me that the situation had not changed how he felt and how much I meant to him.  Then the funeral came, the pushing away began and I genuinely thought it would go on for a week or two and then re-stabilise and if I sent him a message he would always reply something like, "oh I was thinking of you all day" or "I heard this song that reminded me of you".  So it was hard to tell what he wanted and I didn't want to ask.

It took me two further months to actually ask, I didn't want to pressure him, and his reaction was a big, fat "NO", I do not want to lose you but that was another two months ago and I still haven't seen him.  Sometimes he talks to me constantly, sometimes goes totally quiet.  He's opened up more lately which led me to hope, but when it comes down to the brass tacks of real intimacy - he acts like I am trying to attack him if I get too close.  He's so defensive!

Then he is just so sad if I go away.  It's a very, very hard position for me to be in.  The general attitude I have is "I am so lost, I am no good for anyone, you are too good for me, you will only leave me / die if I let you closer" etc. etc. and it's really negative / depressed and unrealistic.  At the same time though it is also "you are so beautiful, so perfect, I miss you, you're the only thing that makes me happy, I really want us to have a future together".

Completely reversed messaged and a refusal to budget and 6 months is a long time.  When he doesn't talk to me, it's always because he is jealous over a male friend / feels he is going to lose me and it's crazy making behavior.

You're right -maybe setting a time period of no contact makes sense.  Ask him to leave me alone for three months.  It will break my heart but I feel like he is being so selfish in his grief that he's blind to how painful this is for me.

 

[I Don't Believe This]

Regardless of the source and reason, (grief, fear of vulnerability) this is emotionally manipulative behavior.

I would put a condition on the no contact that he seeks professional counseling. For example - don't contact me at all for 3 months. If after three months you are seeking professional counseling then we can talk. You mentioned drinking above. That is just self-destructive and will make all of this worse.

I have heard that therapy has a stigma in the UK. I don't know if that is true, but if it is it might be a problem.

Look at it this way. Take the three months and work on yourself. Make yourself someone better and more attractive that he will want to come back to. Not a doormat for him to manipulate while he feels bad.

Also I completely get how you feel right now. I am going through it too - just slightly different conditions. No contact is hard.

[marionette]

I think my case is a bit different as we were only recently dating when this happened.  I haven't got anything "to lose" so to speak in terms of my history with this man -so greatest sympathy to those experiencing this in long term relationships.

But we did connect, we were happy, we have a (rare) shot at something here and it's a shame that he is being so self destructive.  

Yes, there is a stigma around therapy...it;s a big shame he hasn't gone.  He says he has "lost himself" and clearly it;s not an easy thing for ANYONE to process.

[I Don't Believe This]

Good luck. I am sure others will chime in later. Protect yourself.

[MartyT]

My friend, I don't see this man's behavior toward you as "selfish" ~ I see it as controlling. You need to decide if you want to be with a man who has such a need to exert so much control over you. Loving someone should make you feel safe, valued, honored, cherished, contented. Is this how you feel with him? You've learned enough about him to know that he has some serious emotional issues, most of which have nothing to do with you. It's a lot of baggage that he is bringing to his relationship with you. Are you sure that you want or need to have all of that in your life?

[marionette]

It's difficult to explain anything in a few written paragraphs on a forum - but yes - he made me feel all of those things.  I've dated a lot...I am nearly 40...and had always happy, healthy relationships so I am not seeking anything less than that - but he is / was special.  The defensive version of him is pretty horrible, at times, but not all the time.

He has a lot of good qualities, we have a lot of good things.  We laugh a lot, we love talking about the same things,  he's an incredible father, he's very tender and emotional and gentle, he always wants to know about my day / my life / my problems and he makes me feel very safe, very loved SOMETIMES.  when he pushes me away I feel none of those things.

He's not some bad person, although the post may have come across that way.  He's silly and funny and gentle and humble and puts everyone else first generally speaking and he takes his days off and goes and buys gifts for sick kids and delivers them to the hospital.  He is that sort of a person.  One of life's really lovely human beings.

So that is something I want to be around.

The crazy jealous / pushing away -I don't like - but this was not the man I was with before.

[kayc]

5 hours ago, marionette said:

do you still love your fiance?  do you know why he turned away from you?

I still love him/care about him but it wasn't like it was with my husband.  After I adjusted, I felt perhaps it was for the best.  There's only one person I felt was perfect for me and that was my husband, and he passed away 11 years ago.  I almost lost Jim (my ex-fiance) to CHF a year ago and he's not someone I want to lose, we're very good friends.

He broke up with me when his mom was dying and he was caregiving 24/7.  He was sleep deprived and had no one to spell him.  I couldn't help him because she wouldn't allow me in her home (she never met me or gave me a chance).  I felt afterwards that I didn't want to be with someone who couldn't have my back, my George never would have done that.  He is also Asperger's and I feel that played into it as he focuses on one thing at a time to the exclusion of everything else.  He never tried to get me back, he felt he couldn't trust himself not to hurt me or someone else because he'd never dreamed he would have and what if some other calamity came along?

[kayc]

5 hours ago, I Don't Believe This said:

Even before all the losses my girlfriend suffered I could sense a bit of insecurity in this area. Even though we loved each other. 

That wasn't the case with us.  I was totally blindsided.  He was someone I could see myself spending the rest of my life with and we spent all our weekends together and talked on the phone every day (we lived about 75 miles away from each other), and I never saw this coming.

[kayc]

5 hours ago, marionette said:

When my fiance died, I didn't push people away. If anything I clung to people / anyone to try and fill the void and didn't want to be alone.

That was me when I lost my husband.  My friends disappeared on me, I guess death is too uncomfortable or they were afraid it was contagious or it wasn't something they could "fix" so they moved on in short order.  I remember feeling desperate to talk to someone!

[I Don't Believe This]

52 minutes ago, MartyT said:

My friend, I don't see this man's behavior toward you as "selfish" ~ I see it as controlling. You need to decide if you want to be with a man who has such a need to exert so much control over you. Loving someone should make you feel safe, valued, honored, cherished, contented. 

I come from a camp where controlling is selfish. But that is just semantics. I agree with everything Marty is saying.

[I Don't Believe This]

8 minutes ago, kayc said:

That wasn't the case with us.  I was totally blindsided.  He was someone I could see myself spending the rest of my life with and we spent all our weekends together and talked on the phone every day (we lived about 75 miles away from each other), and I never saw this coming.

Yes my girlfriend has always has a little bit of anxiety about whether or not she deserves to be loved or happy. I know she would deny it, but I have heard her repeat things like, "I am just waiting to find out you are too good for me," or "You deserve better than me." 

But she trusts me and I know that she wants me in her life. Pile the grief on top of general anxiety and she is completely emotionally unavailable at this time.

[kayc]

5 hours ago, marionette said:

He is constantly messaging me at night demanding to know where I am / who I am with and getting very jealous or upset if I am out, which is exhausting because I am completely loyal to him although he will not see me.

Perhaps he is doing that because he feels he's not treating you right and knows you would have every right to just up and leave or find someone who would treat you better.

[kayc]

5 hours ago, marionette said:

But people I love tend to disappear and this is a fact.

Totally a griever's feeling!

[kayc]

I don't see myself as wise but as someone who has made a lot of mistakes and learned from them.   I would hope that no one else goes through as much as I've been through in my life. 

That said, anyone controlling and jealous I would FLEE from, but that's me, I've been there and learned those kind of people should come with a red alert!  My kid's dad was one (23 year marriage) and I can't believe how long I lived with that, trying to make it work.  I would rather be alone the rest of my life than live with that again.

Your relationship with him is relatively new, it's still in the "honeymoon" stage...if you start seeing red flags during that period, I'd get gone.  Another red flag is making excuses for him, if you catch yourself doing that, that's also a red flag to pay attention to.  I recommend a book by Christian Carter "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders", it helps you know what the guy is in it for and how to tell the difference.  I learned a lot from his CDs and books.

 

[I Don't Believe This]

48 minutes ago, kayc said:

I don't see myself as wise but as someone who has made a lot of mistakes and learned from them.   I would hope that no one else goes through as much as I've been through in my life.

Kay, 

This is the very definition of how one becomes wise.

[marionette]

1 hour ago, kayc said:

I still love him/care about him but it wasn't like it was with my husband.  After I adjusted, I felt perhaps it was for the best.  There's only one person I felt was perfect for me and that was my husband, and he passed away 11 years ago.  I almost lost Jim (my ex-fiance) to CHF a year ago and he's not someone I want to lose, we're very good friends.

He broke up with me when his mom was dying and he was caregiving 24/7.  He was sleep deprived and had no one to spell him.  I couldn't help him because she wouldn't allow me in her home (she never met me or gave me a chance).  I felt afterwards that I didn't want to be with someone who couldn't have my back, my George never would have done that.  He is also Asperger's and I feel that played into it as he focuses on one thing at a time to the exclusion of everything else.  He never tried to get me back, he felt he couldn't trust himself not to hurt me or someone else because he'd never dreamed he would have and what if some other calamity came along?

 

I am sorry about your husband

Interesting that my boyfriend on this thread is also Aspergers.

[marionette]

1 hour ago, I Don't Believe This said:

Yes my girlfriend has always has a little bit of anxiety about whether or not she deserves to be loved or happy. I know she would deny it, but I have heard her repeat things like, "I am just waiting to find out you are too good for me," or "You deserve better than me." 

But she trusts me and I know that she wants me in her life. Pile the grief on top of general anxiety and she is completely emotionally unavailable at this time.

 

In this case he always had the slight element here of not being great at intimacy and thinking I was too good for him.  He is definitely someone who is not great at vulnerability.