How do I deal with friends that don't get it?

[Polly]

I'm starting to think that you all here are my only friends. Or should I say my only friends that get it.

I was just on FB and I have 7 friends that also have psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis that we have a group chat everyday. We have had this daily group chat for years. I find myself lately just reading about their day and not responding much. some days not at all. I feel like I can't really say what I want to say because I don't want to sound like a "Debbie Downer".  Some days I do tell them about my day or how i'm feeling. Today one of them was saying about how bad her year has been. I just wanted to post, " really? you should be thankful that you still have your husband." another one was just complaining about not be able to sleep because her husband was snoring. That brought me to tears. I wished my husband was snoring right beside me. The worst is when I do say something and they tell me that things will get better. Really? How is it going to get better? How do you tell your friends that you are hurting so much and it doesn't go away?

[Gwenivere]

IMO, Polly, you can't tell them.  They have no reference point.  That is why I feel this is the hardest journey we will ever take.  I hear about other people's wives and husbands all the time.  Doesn't matter if is good or bad.  Both make me miss mine.  The biggest challenge is staying social for how we have changed.  The hardest part is that all these people think we are still the person we were.  So try telling them that person is gone.  That that person is forever gone.  They really don't get that.  No way they can.  We also can't expect them to not talk about thier lives, hard as it is to hear.  It took me a long time to lose that resentment.  I was on thier side of the fence once too.  What I have done, or try to, is let thier voices go by me and not 'care' too much.  I can't get invested in it or it will follow me and intensity the loneliness.  I wasn't especially social before, but even less so now.  Your group sounds like email I get from a couple of people that run down thier whole social schedules to me, of all people.  I usually shoot back.....you sound very busy.  What else can I say?  The only people that are careful about what they say around me are other surviving spouses.  One advantage of volunteering at a nursing home.  They all get it.  Like you, this is the only other place I know I will be understood.  Thank gawd for that!

[kayc]

Polly,

I think I WOULD have said 

7 hours ago, Polly said:

" really? you should be thankful that you still have your husband."

Maybe that's why my "friends" list has dropped considerably.

[mittam99]

Polly, you're not the same person anymore and they just don't understand that.

Everyone for the most part is wrapped up in their own world. They mean well with their "it takes time" and "things will get better" remarks but they truly don't have any idea of the depth of your loss. Or the intense pain you feel.

Having said that, if they ask how you feel tell, tell the honestly how you feel. No need to filter yourself, unless you feel you need to. If they don't like your response and look at you as Debbie Downer, that's on them. What you need in this new world is true understanding and empathy.

[Patty65]

Yes, so true, we are so different now, and yet we have our connections that we used to have that becomes just another loss if we lose them too.  Like Gwen, I think there are many friends we can only interact with when we are strong enough to take the triggers and not say too much (or anything) about them - because the result is often -- well, I guess just harder to deal with.

I've made a new friend since all of this.  She was a customer who came to our shop since we opened.  At the same time in Jan. that Ron was in Hospice, her husband got a serious infection, she had a miscarriage, and when her husband got better, he got mean and left her.  She invited me up to her little cabin, next to the home she was trying to build with her husband, it is like a very simple camping cabin with no plumbing or electricity, but it sits on the West Maui Mountains looking out at the south bay of the island, and it's beautiful, and simple, and about once a week we drink a glass of Chianti and talk and watch the evening light leave the island.

It's a real gift, in that it just happened, I did not, could not "try" to make a new friend, for which I have virtually none outside of here.  But I know, I hear myself, saying things that I know would be hard for her, like talking about my daughter, or about the baby that comes into the office these days.  When I say them, I catch myself and apologize, because I know, I see what I've done.  I didn't mean to.  It just came out in the mire of my thoughts.  She ends up doing the same from time to time.  But at least, despite stepping on each others' toes a little, it is real.  And finding "real" with others now feels near impossible.

For my other friend who doesn't get it, I talk to her when I am strong enough, just to keep the connection, maybe every couple of weeks, and I know full well that I cannot be "real" in the fullest sense of my life now. I can talk to her only about the business and a few other safe topics, and then let her tell me about how wonderfully she is doing these days.  I actually encourage that, since I have so little else to say.  Maybe that will change back someday, maybe not. 

It's like that movie, Avatar.  They would say to each other when they were strongly connecting to each other,  "I see you".  My long-time BFF doesn't see me anymore.  My new friend does.  It's a mine field out there now.

Patty

[mittam99]

1 hour ago, Patty65 said:

Yes, so true, we are so different now, and yet we have our connections that we used to have that becomes just another loss if we lose them too.  

Patty, I want to touch on the part of your quote that I put in bold. What you're saying is absolutely correct, those do become other losses in a sense. Yet, at the same time, if those losses occur, maybe it's not always a bad thing. Let me try to explain this from the perspective of my relationship with Tammy's family and my step-daughter Katie. 

Katie lived with me for 15 years. I treated her as if she was my own and I did my best to be the best dad I knew how to be. Tammy's family was pretty much always kind to me. They told me on numerous occasions that they knew how good I was to Tammy. They saw how much I loved her.

Yet, after Tammy died, they have had virtually no contact with me. Not that I haven't tried. If I don't initiate it, I'd never hear from them. I realize they're dealing with their own pain and I assume they simply can't deal with listening to my grief and angst. At first this bothered me deeply. It felt like I was losing another connection to Tammy.

Then I realized that I need to concentrate on my own life. My journey. I can't dwell on or analyze the whys and wherefores of their abandonment of me. It simply was/is out of my control. It's their decision, their choice.

That's why I told Polly to be herself and answer her friends honestly about her feelings. We can't worry about trying to give answers that please the other person all the time. I'm not saying we should purposely try to alienate ourselves or lose relationships with people, believe me. But you know what? If talking about our genuine feelings would cause someone to not want to be with us... how true of a friend are they, actually?

Mitch

[Cookie]

I totally understand this.  I am so surprised by people that I thought I knew.  I have/had a good female friend before John died; actually we were all friends.  After John died, she was nice, invited me over, etc.  After 15 months, it's like none of it ever happened for her.  She talks at great length about her wonderful son, wonderful husband, the trips she's taking, etc.  It's not that I begrudge happiness for other people, but I expect that someone who was so close to your loss would have the presence of mind to leave out some details.....

[Gin]

Yes,  Cookie, happens all the time.  What a great time they are having, where they are going next, etc.. I am glad for them, but  how do they think we feel?  One friend calls me while on her trip.  Nice she thinks of me, but all the details?

[Gwenivere]

Gin and Cookie, that's a tough one....how do we say to people we don't/can't handle the details?  It sounds rude to say we don't want to hear about them because that would hurt.  What they will hear is we don't care (which is basically true).  It's a big dilemna.  That is why I listen, but I do not ask questions that will prolong the details.  I have my standard lines like 'sounds very busy for you all, hope you have a good time, sounds like fun for you'.  If it just an email contact I can skip over it completely with little acknowledgement.  I did drop 2 people in mail because they didn't even notice I hadn't replied before sending me another update.  The ripple effect of grief is ever amazing.  Who thought we would ever have thought this would be an issue?   They just keep coming.

[mittam99]

If words people say begin to overwhelm me, and I'm to the point I can't handle it, I tell them (politely) just that. I can't do that with customers at work so I have to grin and bear it there, unfortunately.

People sometimes need a gentle reminder that we don't have our beloved spouse by our side anymore. We are all fragile and our emotions have been damaged by the magnitude of our loss. 

[Cookie]

Gin, Gwen and Mitch:  It is so nice to have a place like this to come to and be able to say these things.  If I say anything about it being hard to hear others' happiness, I get the reply of how I need to move on, pray or think more positively.  Hurtful, hurtful, but nothing I can do about it.  It really is only mostly the people who have had the loss who understand at all.  My counselor is very supportive but I only see him every other week for an hour.  I know I need to move forward and am trying to, carrying all the hurt with me right now.  I really do all the things recommended.  I woke up this morning wondering about my sweet husband.  Sometimes I feel so removed from him (which I am) and sometimes can't remember things about him...scared me because I don't want to lose him (but I already have I know).  Then I wondered if I'm afraid to let go because of that....don't know how, though.  Sounds confusing doesn't it?  How do you keep them but also let go?  These are the painful dilemmas people don't understand who so thoughtlessly tell you to move on like it's an easy thing to do if you just set your mind to it.  I still love him so much.....Cookie

[Cookie]

On 9/15/2016 at 5:38 PM, mittam99 said:

Patty, I want to touch on the part of your quote that I put in bold. What you're saying is absolutely correct, those do become other losses in a sense. Yet, at the same time, if those losses occur, maybe it's not always a bad thing. Let me try to explain this from the perspective of my relationship with Tammy's family and my step-daughter Katie. 

Katie lived with me for 15 years. I treated her as if she was my own and I did my best to be the best dad I knew how to be. Tammy's family was pretty much always kind to me. They told me on numerous occasions that they knew how good I was to Tammy. They saw how much I loved her.

Yet, after Tammy died, they have had virtually no contact with me. Not that I haven't tried. If I don't initiate it, I'd never hear from them. I realize they're dealing with their own pain and I assume they simply can't deal with listening to my grief and angst. At first this bothered me deeply. It felt like I was losing another connection to Tammy.

Then I realized that I need to concentrate on my own life. My journey. I can't dwell on or analyze the whys and wherefores of their abandonment of me. It simply was/is out of my control. It's their decision, their choice.

That's why I told Polly to be herself and answer her friends honestly about her feelings. We can't worry about trying to give answers that please the other person all the time. I'm not saying we should purposely try to alienate ourselves or lose relationships with people, believe me. But you know what? If talking about our genuine feelings would cause someone to not want to be with us... how true of a friend are they, actually?

Mitch

Mitch:  You put all of this so well.  I agree with you about true friends, but all of these little losses hurt like big ones.  It is exhausting to try to keep up with what others expect of us...I have tried and it wore me out.  Thanks to all for being my digital support and friends...Cookie

[brat#2]

26 minutes ago, Cookie said:

Sometimes I feel so removed from him (which I am) and sometimes can't remember things about him...scared me because I don't want to lose him (but I already have I know).  Then I wondered if I'm afraid to let go because of that....don't know how, though.  Sounds confusing doesn't it?  How do you keep them but also let go?  These are the painful dilemmas people don't understand who so thoughtlessly tell you to move on like it's an easy thing to do if you just set your mind to it.  I still love him so much.....Cookie

I know exactly how you feel.  Dale had such quirky and funny ways of saying things and had his little one liners to everything and the other day I was trying to remember some of them and couldn't.  I had over the years picked up some of his "sayings" and I guess now that I don't really talk to anyone on a daily basis, I've lost his words.  After that I couldn't stop crying cause like you said I feel like I'm losing him and I don' want to.  I still love him so much too and want him to be a part of my life forever.  Hugs to you

Joyce

 

[KATPILOT]

Joyce we sometimes feel as if we are losing touch with them. It's natural for memory can only support so much but the truth is, we're not losing them. If you think you can lose the memory of someone you love that much, think again. I worried myself over this very issue years ago. But she is still there. A photograph can spark a memory. You can remember what was going on when that picture was taken. Those little triggers become more of a pleasant memory rather than a sad one and allow the things you thought you were forgetting to come back. I can't remember the smell of her perfume for the fragrance left her clothes  long ago and smelling her perfume on her dresser lacks the chemistry of the person wearing it and there is no way I can remember the taste as I kissed her mouth or what it felt like making love with her. Perhaps some sensory recall is difficult but the other memories hold strong. I can still see her and know what she was like. Some things just don't leave you.

[brat#2]

37 minutes ago, KATPILOT said:

Joyce we sometimes feel as if we are losing touch with them. It's natural for memory can only support so much but the truth is, we're not losing them. If you think you can lose the memory of someone you love that much, think again. I worried myself over this very issue years ago. But she is still there. A photograph can spark a memory. You can remember what was going on when that picture was taken. Those little triggers become more of a pleasant memory rather than a sad one and allow the things you thought you were forgetting to come back. I can't remember the smell of her perfume for the fragrance left her clothes  long ago and smelling her perfume on her dresser lacks the chemistry of the person wearing it and there is no way I can remember the taste as I kissed her mouth or what it felt like making love with her. Perhaps some sensory recall is difficult but the other memories hold strong. I can still see her and know what she was like. Some things just don't leave you.

Thank you Stephen for your kind words of encouragement.  Some days are just better than others for those memories and it's like you said, a picture or even a moment does bring those memories to me of what we were doing and they, for the most part, are happy memories rather than being sad.

Joyce

 

[Gwenivere]

Cookie, last night I had the opposite happen about remembering Steve because of several nights of very disturbing dreams.  I felt if I am going to be alone, I wanted him to leave me alone in my sleep.  It's kinda silly because the dreams are from me, at least that is my belief, not that he is contacting me.  I love him soooooo much tho, was desperate and begged him to not be in my sleep.  I need some time that I am not thinking of him as all conscious time is on some level.  I'll never lose him, I have no worry about that.  Some physical things may change, but at almost 2 years I still know his smell, his taste, his way with words and anacronisms.  What he called his car, phrases I now use myself he created in everyday language.  Things we picked up from TV shows we liked the phrasing of.  Maybe some will fade as keeping them alive was our daily bantor.  But one thing I do know is I feel a love for him stronger now as I would have if he lived.  It's just so hard not to share it with him.  As I keep finding, being in love alone is so very hard.  But it continues on.  There are very few things I have forgotten and remarkably something will happen and they come back.  My hope is at some time they won't be so much pain, more a comfort I had a love like no other and sadly I see others around me that didn't share that kind of closeness in thier partnerships.

[brat#2]

Gwen, I know I'm not losing Dale and I know that his "sayings" will come back to me, I'm must be having a mental block right now for some reason.  It's been a pretty rough couple of weeks and I guess my mind is not working the way it usually does.  After hearing his quirky sayings for 34 years, I'm sure they will come back a little at a time.  I just don't have anyone to say them to, so I guess not using them daily they don't come to me as quick, especially if I'm trying to think of them.  You are so right that the love I feel for him today is as strong as it always was and it is hard being in love alone and not being able to share it with him is even more difficult.  I believe he is still in love with me and like you hope to find comfort in that someday and I think I do a little already.

Joyce

    

[kayc]

17 hours ago, Gwenivere said:

But one thing I do know is I feel a love for him stronger now as I would have if he lived.  It's just so hard not to share it with him.  As I keep finding, being in love alone is so very hard.  But it continues on.

That's a very apt way of putting it...being in love alone.  I feel the same way.

[Cookie]

Yes, more love than ever.  One thing I do still have a clear picture of in my mind is his eyes.  He had these very twinkly blue eyes and right up to the day he died you would almost forget how sick he was by looking at his eyes which reflected a very kind, strong spirit....Cookie

[MartyT]

Dear ones, I just read an article that I think you will appreciate: When Should Mourners Move On?

When should the bereaved stop talking about their deceased loved ones or their grief? I’ll answer by posing more questions.

When your friends got married, did you tell them to stop speaking of their husband or wife a few weeks or months after the wedding? Do you tell coworkers to remove family pictures from their workplaces or stop mentioning their kids once they’ve left babyhood, elementary school, or the nest? When lifelong friends announce their move to another state, do you vow to never communicate with — or about — them again?

Of course not. To do so would be insensitive at best, rude at worst.

Marriage, childbirth, relocation — these are tremendous life changes, life-altering conditions. Once entered into, life for the participants becomes different than it was before, with birthdays, anniversaries, and physical reminders inextricable ongoing reminders. People expect and understand their conversations and preoccupations will center around those changes. After all, once a parent, always a parent …

So why force such expectations on mourners?  Read on here

[Cookie]

Thanks for the article Marty.  It's helpful to hear that when you're surrounded by people trying to tune you out all the time.....