AnnC

I can understand about disenfranchised grief. My husband and I divorced sadly back in the 80's because he realized he was gay. It was devastating and took years to mourn my marriage, but later we became good friends. When he died in 2004, of liver disease, it was losing him all over again. That's when I first found tjis website. So many people, including most of my family, could not imagine why I should be so upset. After all, they said, he was only my ex. But I loved him no matter what.

He, too, suffered from disenfranchised grief, ten years before his own death. His partner died suddenly, and my ex was devastated. His partner's family came, took the body back to the state where they lived, and cut my ex out of all arrangements, and would not tell him when or where the funeral was.

I don't know why people act like this. It is so cruel. But I do believe the most important thing is that you loved each other, and you both knew it, and no one can ever take that away from you. Take care of yourself.

I can relate to these stories. Both of my parents were mean, hypercritical, always negative, and insulting. For 20 years I lived across the country from them, but I moved back to the general area to be closer to my siblings and their children. Perhaps in self-defense against our parents, my siblings and I, despite fairly wide age differences, have remained close and supportive to each other.

My brother lost his job last year, and with the bad economy, he ran out of money while trying to get another one, so he moved in with my mother. She had been complaining ever since my father died in 2006 that she had no one to cook for and no one to help her with house and yard work (she's 84). But once my brother moved in, she started complaining that she had to cook for him! And she didn't, he was a pretty good cook, and liked cooking for others. But she said she didn't like his cooking. He did all her yardwork, heavy work inside (though she hires a cleaning service that comes weekly), and also did all the preparation and deep cleaning of her second condo for sale, dealing with the realtor, etc. Really doing a lot to help her, while also working very hard to find a job. But she had nothing but criticism, that his stuff was in her house, that his car was in her driveway, that he borrowed gas money from her to look for a job and run her errands for her. My mother is very wealthy, by the way.

When he died in a car crash, 3 months ago, it was an accident, and probably he fell asleep. He had found a job 6 weeks earlier and was working 12 hour days to get it going, plus helping her move out of her now sold condo, and moving into his own new apartment. Now, all we hear are her complaints about how he lived with her so long, his stuff is still in her house, he never did his homework as a child, on and on and on. It's like she thinks he was killed just to make her life more inconvenient.

She also is on my sister constantly. My sister is executor for my brother's estate, by my mother's permission as next of kin. But my mother is angry that she isn't at her house every day (she lives 40 minutes away and has a husband and children.) My mother is jealous of the time my sister spends with her own children, and complains that my sister goes to movies with her husband instead of my mother. She runs her ragged with demands, questions, and complaints. It got so bad that one day my brother in law intervened and told her to back off and to remember she still has other children and not to abuse us.

Yes, I know anger is a manifestation of grief, but believe me, she was like this before my brother died, before my father died. Every time I start to feel compassion for her as a widow and bereaved mother, she starts complaining about what a disappointment my brother was. And he worked so hard to take care of her when she was widowed and do everything for her.

In fact, although my brother's death was an accdient, if there is anyone to blame, it's her. She badgered and criticised him and put him down constantly, aggravating his tendency toward depression, and spurring him to work long, long hours to try to prove himself to himself and to her. Thus, he was exhausted and depressed after months of living with that woman -- and he fell asleep at the wheel and died. And all she can do is keep complaining.

This is mean too, but I doubt her death will hurt me anywhere near as much as my brother's death hurts.

It was the same for my brother, the car crash really destroyed his body, but they were able to donate his corneas, and the transplant was successful. He would be so glad to have helped someone to see.

I am so sorry for the loss of your mother. Don't try to force yourself to be positive. Sometimes you just need to feel really awful and cry your eyes out. That hurts, but oddly enough, it is ultimately healing. But it's a long hard road -- we are here to keep you company while you travel it.

Fair is the last thing it is.

Thanks, Anne, you're so sweet to check on me! Thanksgiving went pretty well. My sisters went to their respective inlaws', and I spent it with my mother and aunt. We did talk about my brother quite a lot, and that was good. We had a nice time.

This coming Friday is his birthday, so my sisters and mother and I are going to go to lunch and visit the mausoleum where he is interred with my dad, and all our grandparents and great-grandparents too. This was my mother's request, and my second sister is flying in from Montana to be with us. It will be sad but we'll all be supported by each other. Then we will decorate my mother's house for Christmas because we know she won't have the energy or perhaps the heart to do it, but when there are no decorations she gets depressed.

Thanks for the support on the guilt and regret. I am fortunate, I had a good relationship with my brother and the guilt and regrets are minimal, but it does seem that our brains will look for something to beat ourselves up with! In thinking about it, I believe my brother would not want us to remember him as dead, but as we knew him. Even though he did think we should all see my dad's body, but that was more to see him at peace after months of suffering through cancer treatments. In my brother's case, he was healthy and happy right up to the accident, so it's better to remember him like that.

We just got the autopsy report. The good news is my brother had not even so much as an aspirin in his sytem, so there was nothing like that to have caused his crash. I did not believe there would be, but it's nice to know for certain -- some people have made cruel comments about how he must have been driving under the influence, and now I KNOW for certain that he was not. They could tell he had recently eaten a meal, which could have contributed to drowsiness -- all the evidence we have been able to gather suggests he fell asleep at the wheel and that caused the crash.

But I was at my grief group the other evening, and a newly bereaved father was saying how upset he was that he didn't get to see his son's body (it was found several days after the death.) He felt he had no closure. And I started to feel bad when I saw the autopsy report. When we talked to the M.E. after the crash, they said there was too much trauma to determine an exact cause of death. So when my mother said she wanted to see his body, I had visions of a crushed and bloody body (sorry if this is too graphic), and I discouraged her. They seemed satisfied with their identification, and he was 3 hours away from where we were, so we just arranged for the cremation and let them take care of things. Now I have discovered that all the trauma was internal, he looked okay externally. So now I feel we should have gone to see him, it would have been at least an assurance that it really was him. I felt less trauma at my father's death, and I think that's partly because we did see my father's body and identify it. It might also be because he suffered through 10 months of chemo and his passing was expected. But still, I'm feeling guilt and regret that maybe the decision was made too hastily to not go see my brother's body, and now of course it's way too late, he was cremated. I feel like my mother followed my recommendation and I was wrong.

Just wanted to jump in, your comment that your husband didn't think he was a hero reminded me of something. The man, Steve, who stopped his car and ran across the freeway and pulled open the car door to get my brother out of the burning car, he is my hero. Even though he couldn't resuscitate my brother because he died on impact, still, he gave it his all to try to save a stranger. I talked with Steve, and he is a military vet, and insisted he is not a hero, that he just did what any human being would do for another.

But he IS a hero, and so is your Arthur. And all our military.

Now it has been 12 weeks. I started attending the local chapter of The Compassionate Friends, and although they are mainly bereaved parents, they were very welcoming and I found it helpful. And some of them have lost siblings also, and can relate. I can relate to them in a way because I am 15 years older than my brother and I never had children, so my brother was the closest to a child for me. I cared for him a lot as an infant and toddler.

The golf course where he worked had a memorial golf tournament in his name. The proceeds were donated to my brother's daughter for her education. Now the national organization that organized it will be doing this tournament in his memory every year, at different golf courses around the country. The proceeds in future will go to support junior golf, which my brother was very involved in. My family is really pleased that this is his legacy.

I'm dreading the holidays though.

Of course I remember you, teny, from faraway Greece. Six years ago I found this site as I mourned the death of my ex husband. Now I am back after the sudden death of my brother in a car accident in August. We never stop missing them.

Thanks, Marty. I'm not expecting a group specifically aimed at sibling loss, but one that would at least take me. GriefWorks, which I went to years ago, was wonderful. It is my nature to do best with people to talk to in an in person group, combined with reading books and participating in online groups such as this one. But anyway, I am stubborn enough to persist. :-)

Thanks Marty and kayc. I am reading a book about sibling loss and it is helping. I do notice that there isn't generally much said about it. In trying to find group support, everything seems to revolve around widows and bereaved parents. I have been asked many times how my mother is doing by people who have never met my mother. No one asks me, for example, how my sisters are doing, but of course they are as devastated and suffering as I am, so this also minimizes my loss. I expected some disenfranchisement when I was grieving my ex husband 8 years ago, but am really surprised that the loss of an adult sibling doesn't seem that major to a lot of people.

I talked to one grief counselor at MultiCare about the groups she runs, but she said my loss was "too recent" and would be disruptive to the group? Really? Even if that's true, I am astounded she would say such a thing! Only my good memories of the group I joined 8 years ago keeps me still considering it. If I had not had that experience, I would have completely withdrawn after her comments that made me feel I was doing something wrong by reaching out for help. The grief center I went to back then has closed due to lack of funds, and the counselor there has retired. At the suggestion of a friend I called the pastor of her church who runs grief support groups. She said she would call me when she set up her next group in early October, but she never did. My friend finally asked about it and was told there were not enough people for an evening group. A call to tell me that instead of completely ignoring me would have been at the very least common courtesy. Am I being unreasonable here?

I found the website for Compassionate Friends. They do seem to focus on parents but they have a nice article on sibling loss. I emailed the contact for the local chapter a week ago. No response.

What is going on with these people? I certainly do not see the slightest evidence of compassion.

Not much activity in this part of the forum.

I did something today that helped me. I have found myself feeling guilt and regret for all sorts of things I think I did wrong in the past in my relationship with my brother. I have been crying and punishing myself for not treating him better while he was alive. Today I wrote up a chart, with the first column called "Guilt/Regret", and listing under that all the things I feel guilt or regret about, such as not offering him the option to stay on my couch the last time he came and had dinner with me, that kind of thing. Then in the second column, I put "Comments", and I put, for example, that in thinking about that last visit, I said to him that he didn't need a motel room, but he said he wanted an afternoon nap before I got home from work, and he had to leave early the next morning, so a motel was easier and he had already paid for it. Somehow the fact that when he left at the end of the evening, I didn't suggest he stay with me, that was what stuck in my head and I felt horrible about it. When I really made an effort to remember, I remembered that we had already discussed it on the phone earlier, but my grief-fogged mind forgot that part and preferred to beat me up.

So I listed everything that I could remember from our lives that I felt guilty for, and then in the second column, just answers to it, like it was a normal disagreement for a brother and sister to have, or we discussed a problem later and made peace over it.

I was surprised just how much better this made me feel. I still miss him like crazy, of course, but I know I couldn't possibly have prevented the car accident that killed him, and I see that my regrets are very minor and didn't get in the way of a good sibling relationship. From other family members I have lost, I remember that those guilty feelings and what-if's are so debilitating and make grief so very much more painful -- and it's surely painful enough without that. I am keeping my chart in my computer and on my tablet so I can add to it if other incidents come to mind, or to read over when the guilts strike again. It does help as a reality check.

I cry every day -- but although the crying is so painful, I do feel a bit better afterwards. If I stuff down my crying, I start to feel like I'm going to explode -- so I try not to avoid the crying.

I agree, nothing religious, I was just expressing my personal experience and viewpoint. Regardless, we all feel that pain of loss, and a desperate hope for some kind of reunion with those we have lost.

I can't speak to losing an only child, so I don't know if this is helpful. But the circumstances of your cousin's death struck me. My brother died in a car accident 7 weeks ago. We don't know why, but he veered off the freeway and hit a solid metal pole that holds up the exit sign. He had evidently stopped in the emergency lane for some reason and was trying to merge back into traffic, and possibly tried to take the exit last minute due to not being let in by traffic or perhaps serving to avoid something in the road (based on witness statements). He hit it at 60 mph and died on impact. Two men stopped to help, one out of his car and one a motorcyclist. They got the car door open and dragged my brother out and performed CPR. Right after they got him out, the car burst into flames. The CPR failed. The M.E. said my brother died on impact. But your cousin having been burned beyond recognition is my personal nightmare of what almost happened to my brother. Even though it didn't due to some heroic and caring people who desperately tried to save him, I still see visions in my head of his burned body as I imagine it, and it is so horrifying to me. Even though he died, somehow burning even after death is something I am terrified about. I am so, so sorry to read that your cousin met that fate. My heart goes out to your aunt and uncle in their terrible loss, and to you in your loss as well.

I have felt it too. My aunt died Aug. 2nd, my brother died in a car crash Aug. 24th and my cousin's wife on Aug. 27th, which was my father's birthday and he died 5 1/2 years ago. It is very hard with the multiple losses. I especially feel for my cousin, who lost his mother and his wife, and also my brother, within the same month. It's so hard. I lost my husband first to divorce when he realized he was gay, and years later he died at only 50. That was 8 years ago, but more recent losses bring that loss back (not that it ever retreated very far!)

It's hard to remind myself that life has losses all along the way. Society seems to expect us to be happy all the time.

I am so sorry for the loss of your brother. My brother died 7 weeks ago, and it is devastating. For me, he was my much younger brother. I was nearly 15 when he was born, and I took care of him a lot. I never had children, so he was the closest thing to my child. I'm crying and crying every day, I can't believe he's gone. It was sudden, he was killed in a car crash, and we don't know exactly what happened or even why he was 150 miles away from where he was supposed to be that day.

I would say what you are feeling is normal. Over time, you may feel differently, but wanting to protect yourself from more pain is natural. Just take it one step at a time. They say you should not make any major decisions for at least a year after a major loss like this.

In my family, alcoholism and cancer are prevalent. Yet my mother is 84 and healthy, and my aunt is 90. You never know how long someone will live. And loving means you risk loss. But living without love is worse, in my opinion. It's just very hard.

I have been reading about sibling loss, and one of the difficulties is that your parent's grief can seem to push yours aside. I have had to make a little bit of distance with my mother, because I have to take care of myself or I will be no help to her. Like on an airplane, you have to put the oxygen mask on yourself before you help others, or you may pass out and they won't be helped. In many ways, the grief of my sisters and myself is ignored in favor of the grief of our mother and my brother's daughter. But we all are grieving, and there is no use in comparisons. Take care of yourself and your grief. I talk to my mother every week, and visit her monthly (I live almost 200 miles from her). My sisters also stay in touch. But I have to have my time to grieve too.

I don't have much else to say, but just know that you are not alone in this horrible loss, unfortunately there are others of us going through it too.

Our culture is very "scientifically" based and wants to prove everything beyond a shadow of a doubt. In many cultures, after life and afterdeath communications are considered quite normal. I have had enough experiences of seeing a vision of a loved one after their death, and getting other things happening that can't possibly be attributed to coincidence or wishful thinking. At some point you have to decide that you believe in this, because someone who is determined never to accept the idea of the survival of the spirit can close their eyes to anything -- and that is their choice. Likely there will never be a consensus on this, because the experiences are so personal. What I see as an amazing message may not seem so to another person, because I knew the person who died, and I know the message sent was just like them, or referred to something only he and I knew about. That proves nothing to someone else. But I know it was real. That's all that matters.

That feeling of his existence being within you does make sense to me. And I totally believe that he has heard you and knows how much he affected you and how much you love and miss him.

My beliefs are that we are spiritual beings temporarily in human bodies and we will go through this school of life many times to learn all there is to learn, and then move on. And that we are never truly separated from one another and share many lifetimes with those who are close to us.

A friend with the same beliefs wrote something about grieving that I found helpful, though: He said that grieving is the process of changing your relationship with the person who has died. You have been relating as a soul/body to another soul/body. Now, you will be relating as a soul/body to a soul only. That is a huge shift from the human perspective, and our human minds and bodies grieve the change. I also experience many ADCs from those who have died, and I am grateful for those, but I have found that it doesn't mean that I can circumvent grief.

For 8 years since my ex-husband's death, and 6 years since my father's death, I have had hundreds of signs and dreams from them, and from grandparents and uncles and friends who have died. Even so, my brother's death in a car accident 7 weeks ago was a traumatic shock, and I cry wildly every day, even though I have already had messages from his spirit. The loss of the physical presence is something our physical selves need to grieve. But it sure hurts a lot! I know intellectually that it will soften over time, as it has before, but I must admit that when the pain is new and raw (that is, the first year or two!) it's hard to really believe that it will ever get better.

We just have to hang in there, and live as they would want us to live. I know their spirits walk beside us.

My dad died in 2006. My grief therapist told me that you always grieve, but the pain gets softer. But you still get grief attacks sometimes. As the years go by, the grief attacks happen less often, but they still happen, and you never know what will trigger it.

The bottom line is that your experience is NORMAL. Your friend happened to hear you talk about your father, and our society expects that you will be "back to normal". That doesn't happen. You have a New Normal, and that normal includes the fact that your father died a few years ago, and you still miss him. Again, this is NORMAL.

So don't take this as something going wrong. Your friend's comment simply triggered a grief attack for you. That doesn't mean you haven't "moved on", since you are living your life and are doing well, and can remember your father with smiles instead of crying every single time his name comes up. But, now and then, you do cry. Again, this is normal.

Thanks, kayc. I didn't expect to lose a sibling since I am the oldest. My closest in age sibling is 5 years younger, and the brother I lost was nearly 15 years younger. It made it that much more of a shock.

I feel my shock subsiding and the pain getting more intense. I cry a lot at work now. Coworkers are sympathetic, but they don't know what to say. However, they are open enough to just tell me they don't know what to say, and then I tell them that it's okay that they don't know. I don't know what I want them to say. But their honesty is actually helpful. And they listen when I tell them a memory of my brother or when I showed pictures of the beautiful place we had the memorial service. So they have been great, really.

I am scared of how painful Thanksgiving, followed by his birthday a week later, and then Christmas, will be. Because my brother and I were both divorced, we sent those holidays with my mother, especially Thanksgiving when my sisters would be with their in-laws. So it will be a big difference this year. It will be sad beyond belief.

I tell myself to just let myself cry, I know that is best, but it's harder to do than I remembered from past losses. Maybe because I do have that feeling that it won't stop if I really get started. I have cried hard, but every time there is that fear. Also I fear crying in the evening because my nose and everything gets swollen and then, because I have sleep apnea, I can't sleep because I can't breathe. That reminds me that it was my brother who recognized my sleep apnea and insisted I see a doctor. He probably saved my life, sleep apnea can be fatal. I wish I had saved his life. I remember the sleep technician said to me, "You are fortunate to have a brother who loves you enough to insist that you get treatment for this condition." It makes me cry, because I have lost him. He saved me and I didn't save him.

My update -- I can't believe it's been 6 weeks. Much of that time is a blur. We had a beautiful Celebration of Life for my brother. It was outside at a golf club because he was a professional golfer, and it was a beautiful day. His daughter spoke and brought everyone to tears. But of course, once all the arrangements and service are over, and placing his ashes in the mausoleum with my dad's ashes -- now without all that to distract me, I face the reality of his absence.

I just bought a remembrance necklace for myself. We are Part-Hawaiian, and he had his happiest years in Hawaii, where he married and had his daughter. She is still living there. So I ordered a silver necklace with a peridot stone. Peridot is created by volcanoes and is known in Hawaii as the "tears of Pele", the volcano goddess. So I ordered a tear-shaped stone in a simple silver setting.

But I just miss him.

Thanks, missing him and kayc. Of course, laughter and feasting are also appropriate. But our society seems to think mourning is a disease to get over quickly. I like the verse because it says to me that the heart is made better by facing the fact that we are all mortal, and that mourning a loved one is actually healing. Giving in to the mourning. It was a long hard road for me to learn to stop fighting the grieving process when my ex died. Two years later my father died, and now my brother. Each grieving process felt different but had a basic similarity which now I can recognize in my grief over my brother, that it's normal and so I don't fight it, which helps. But they all left sadness in my life. It's comforting to remind myself that sadness is a normal part of life. As a close friend pointed out, life is a balance of dark and light, joy and mourning.

I know that when my ex-husband died I was devastated, and we weren't even married anymore. But I still loved him. I remember the pain of coming out of shock at around 5-6 months. I cried every day for two years, and then every other day for two more years. Slowly, the edges of the pain wear a little smoother over time, and it still hurts, but not with jagged edges anymore. I imagine it will take even longer if you are still married to your loved spouse. So give yourself a break, it takes a lot of time. I found that it did destroy my life, and I had to build a new life. That's how it works.

Especially because my ex WAS an ex, I got little sympathy. People couldn't understand why I would care. But I loved him enough to marry him, and although he realized later he was gay, and we divorced, we still cared deeply for each other. One sister and my brother were sympathetic, but the other sister and my parents didn't think I should be upset at all. Friends were clueless. Even my grief group was puzzled that I would be so upset, but my counselor was wonderful.

Now, 8 years later, I still miss him and always will. The pain comes and goes less frequently now, but it still hurts at times. I can live with it.

My brother was killed 6 weeks ago. Again the shock and pain, and tears breaking out when you least expect it. I have a better idea of what to expect, but it is different with each loss. Friends are more sympathetic since he is not an ex-brother! But most people still expect you to have the funeral and then be "over it". I learned to seek out those who understand, and went back to my resources (including this site) for comfort and understanding. And with this loss, my sister and mother are more able to "get it", since they suffered the loss too.

My niece read something at the memorial service that I liked, because it counteracts society's expectations. It is from Ecclesiastes 7:2-6:

Better to go to the house of mourning

Than to go to the house of feasting,

For that is the end of all men;

And the living will take it to heart.

Sorrow is better than laughter,

For by a sad countenance the heart is made better.

The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning,

But the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.

It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise

Than for a man to hear the song of fools.

For like the crackling of thorns under a pot,

So is the laughter of the fool.

It is hard. What's weird is that I last saw him only a couple of weeks before he died. And normally I might not see him for two or three months. He lived 120 miles from me, so maybe I would get a text sometimes, or a call if he was in my area. Or I would just hear what he was doing from my mom, and then see him for Thanksgiving. It's been a month today, but it's normal that I wouldn't see him twice in one month, but I know he's dead, yet part of me still feels like I will see him at Thanksgiving like normal. I know that's not true but we did not see his body (the M.E. said there was too much trauma from the car crash, so we had him cremated.) So it's not totally real to me. Confusing. It's like when my ex-husband died, I never saw him dead and he lived on the opposite coast so I only knew from people telling me that he died. With my father, I saw him going through the cancer and treatments, and I saw his body after he was dead, so that was hard too, but less confusing. I don't know if I'm making sense here.