Dusky

Bdzack,

I'll send you the same message I just sent to Mossfire - It reads" Each time I see a new member it reminds me of how difficult those first days/months were and how I felt I would surly die - soon. I'm still here - and some of the best times are when I can help others through this dark passage. Check out my web site listed below."

Mossfire,

Each time I see a new member it reminds me of how difficult those first days/months were and how I felt I would surly die - soon. I'm still here - and some of the best times are when I can help others through this dark passage. Check out my web site listed below.

WendyJ,

Sometimes these dates just sneak up on us. Please know that you are in my thoughts. No matter how much time passes I still recognize various dates that mean (and meant) something to Jack and me. As always this is a great place to come to for people who understand.

Just one more thought,

Each of you are very special to me. Even though I have made progress to heal after Jacks death I do not intend on ever giving any of YOU up or exiting this site permanently. It will take me a lifetime to just attempt to heal from Jacks loss. I may occasionally drift away from commenting on this site at times - but I will not leave you. I feel connected to you - I feel connected to Jack. If I had pictures of each of you they would also be displayed in my home - each of you are now part of my past - and my present - and my future. If one of you died and I had your picture in my home - that would not mean I would have to remove it and hide it from others. Theoretically speaking the only difference between a picture of you in my home and Jack would be that he was my mate and you are my friend. The question is - Why would any one expect that I remove anyones picture from my hone? The answer lies in what we believe another person expects from us. Anyone worthy of your love will not ask you to remove anyones picture and will want to know ALL of you. If that is not the case any new relationship will be based on quicksand - and cannot stand the test of time. My pictures would remain - all of them - including Jacks - and yours - if I had one to display.

KarenB,

You and I have been on this same time line - I also lost my Jack nearly 3 and a half years ago. I am currently pursuing another relationship and I would not think of putting Jacks picture(s) away. For me Jack will always be part of who I am. I refuse to be with anyone who does not understand that I have a past - and the past comes with pictures. I also have two copies of the book I wrote as a legacy to Jack displayed in my home - one is on a special shelf in my office, which is the same place where I keep Jack's ashes. The second copy simply sits on my nightstand next to where I sleep. Pictures of Jack and the words I wrote as a legacy to Jack are important to me. I refuse to hide the pictures or the words - and both are on display in my home. Anyone who truly cares about me understands the importance of these images to me.

Pictures are your memories. Two quotes come to mind - the first is from Oscar Wilde who said, "Memory is the diary that we all carry about with us." The second is from James E. Barrie who said, "God gave us memories that we might have roses in December." I say your pictures are your memories and display them - to warm your heart and the heart of all around you.

KayC,

Grieving is not something that has a time frame attached to it and those that think it does have not walked in the shoes of those who have lost their mate/spouse/partner. When people make a comment that implies an ending point for this type of grief I am reminded once again of some of the folks around me who have questioned my grief in the past. This was such a sore point with me that I devote a chapter of two to it in my book – “Finding My Banana Bread Man.” There are two poems I wrote which speaks directly to this issue. I may have shared them with this site in the past; however, there are many new faces – so here they are again. One is entitle – “I Became Their Greatest Fear” and the other is entitled “A Stunning Jolting Jar.”

“I Became Their Greatest Fear”

Some say that I can’t let go

Gentle hearts that think they know

Others say a buried past

Is where You should now rest at last

Others tell me that they know

How my past should be – “let go”

How to grieve and how to cry

How to feel – and when – and why

Those who do not understand

Have not been to this dark land

When they could not see you here

“I Became Their Greatest Fear”

Friends who where the closest to us

Fussed and cared and brought food to us

Once you were no longer here

I am now what they all fear

Calls and contact used to flourish

Constant tales to encourage

Now the message is quite clear

I am now what they all fear

Those who do not understand

Have not been to this dark land

When they could not see you here

”I Became Their Greatest Fear”

For those who think they know it all

And those who cannot make a call

Letting go that’s what I must do

But its not - You - that must go

They will become my buried past

It’s where They should now rest at last

Letting go that’s what I must do

But its not - You - that must go

Those who do not understand

Have not been to this dark land

When they could not see you here

“I Became Their Greatest Fear”

“A Stunning Jolting Jar”

For many months I stayed connected

I shared - reached out - and felt respected

But as the months and years have faded

I know your heart is feeling weighted

He was my bright shinning star

His loss “A Stunning Jolting Jar”

It’s not that I have changed my stance

I speak of love – and lost romance

I write of tears and grief that’s molten

Of broken hearts and futures stolen

I talked of pain that’s here and real

I made you think and made you feel

I seldom left without a passage

To lift your heart – and send a message

He was my bright shinning star

His loss - “A Stunning Jolting Jar”

I have tried with so much passion

To talk and teach and show compassion

All this despite - my own faith shaken

My spirit crushed - feeling forsaken

I tried to put you front and center

To help you grieve and to remember

But as the months and years have faded

I know your heart is feeling weighted

He was my bright shinning star

His loss - “A Stunning Jolting Jar”

My recovery spans a lifetime

Your’s is measured in much less time

He was my bright shinning star

His loss - “A Stunning Jolting Jar”

Some of you don’t want to hear

Of all the pain and all the fear

Run from all that’s here and real

Run and do not think or feel

Some of you I’m gently leaving

Letting go and sadly grieving

I seldom leave without a passage

To lift your heart – so here’s my message

He was my bright shinning star

His loss - “A Stunning Jolting Jar”

My recovery spans a lifetime

Your’s is measured in much less time

WaltC,

You are the first person I met on this site, and you are the perfect example of the "caring, understanding and non-judgmental friends" you mention in your e-mail. You're a gem!

You requested that we share our memories of January 2005. So - here goes:

We had just finished the last three month of 2004 - months that had found Jack and I immersed into our own person hell - the diagnosis of Jack's brain tumor, two hospital stays and multiple surgeries had left Jack ill and blind as the result of malfeasance at the hospitals emergency room in October 2004. As January began Jack had been home from his second hospital stay for three weeks. Then on January 4 of 2005 Doctors informed us that the cancer was still in Jacks brain. We had thought that it had all been removed on the first surgery in October, however, what the doctors meant was that they had removed all that they could see. In effect we were told on January 4th of 2005 that Jack was terminally ill and that his cancer would kill him - and soon.

When I informed the Chem Doctor that I did not know how I was going to tell Jack that he was in fact terminal - this doctor noted for having terrible bed side manner - gave me a wonderful gift. With me at Jacks side he talked to Jack and somewhere in the midst of this deadly news he encouraged Jack to not give up hope. It was this doctors finest moment as Jacks Chemo Doctor. Jack never did give up hope - but the cancer did kill him 7 months later. That same Doctor signed Jacks Death Certificate in July 2005.

We tried to continue a living in as normal a fashion as possible in January 05 - and started to take classes at the Arizona Council for the Blind - an exercise that in retrospect was futile. I was in the midst of trying to find a movie theater that shows movies for the blind (with verbal captions) when Jack suffered a seizure. It was the evening of January 29, 2005 - and Jack - was taken back to the hospital for another 6 week stay and three surgeries.

January, 2005, was the forth month in Jack and my 10-month death march.

I wish I had a more cheerful version of January 2005 to pass along to you, Walt, but thats what it was like here for jack and I in the Arizona desert.

That's why I try to keep the following two things in mind when I think of my life with Jack and the difficult 10 months that preceded his death:

First - That "We will meet again."

And second, the quotation from Bertha Damon that reads " Beauty that dies the soonest has the longest life. Because we cannot keep itself for a day, we keep it forever. Because it can have existence only in memory, we give it immortality there."

Jack and I would spend the whole hour in whatever way he would select. He had always been the one “in charge” of so much of our life I would imagine I would let him decide this hour as well. That being said – I would guarantee it would be spent at home on the sofa with Dusky (our Dog – I am bringing him back for this hour as well) talking and eating popcorn.

What a delightful image – to think about how to spend – just one more hour with Jack.

Thanks for posting this thought provoking topic.

John - Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack - and Dusky

http://findingmybananabreadman.com/

"Finding My Banana Bread Man - a journey through mourning"

I want to start a list of the couples here...I could name many of them but don't want to leave anyone out, so please add your name and the name of the spouse you lost...I want to pray for each of you in this new year.

Kay and George

Erica and Walter

Scott and Kate

Tom and Mary Linda

Janet and Mike

Corinne and Jimmy

Jeanne and Alex

Derek and Karen

Rosemary and Lou

Bob and Janet

Jean and Walter

Bob and Mel

Teny and Yiany

Mark and Julie

Harry & Sherry

Wendy and Steve

Jack and John

________________________________

"Beauty that dies the soonest has the longest life. Because it cannot keep itself for a day, we keep it forever. Because it can have existence only in memory, we give it immortality there." Bertha Damon

AnnC,

You are a remarkable person. I remember you telling different pieces of your story over the course of the years you have been a member on this site. I have seen a number of times you reference your connection to the gay community, which I assume evolved over the years due to your ex's sexual preference. I have always read your posts with great interest because of the wonderful perspective you bring to this group and the compassion you have consistently voiced on this site for members of my “other family” – the gay community. This site has always made me feel welcome – regardless of my sexual preference. I want to thank you for the perspective, and for the tolerance, you so eloquently voice in your posts.

Love and peace,

John – Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack – and Dusky

Patti,

I am glad my web site found you at "just the right time."

John - Dusky is my handle on here.

Love you Jack - and Dusky

Erica,

It is so nice to have you back. This is always a place where you can find peace and love.

John - Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack - and Dusky

Vickie,

It’s dreadful when the people we are around, and are ones we expect to be able to acknowledge loss, fail to do so. I have witnessed this inconsiderate behavior repeatedly, and have come to realize that, for the most part, human beings are afraid of death. It takes the reality of losing some one very close to you (in our cases the person who shared our intimate nest) to truly understand this type of loss. It takes death itself to understand how precious life is. It takes death to be able to recognize and offer expressions of loss to others, and not to ignore loss with silence.

We have learned through the death of our mates, our partners, and our spouses what this pain is like; and we are therefore the first to be able to reach out to others and talk about another's loss. Vickie, you will, in all likelihood, be one of the few, if not the only person, to verbally reach out to others and in words acknowledge your fathers death anniversary - because you have been there - and you know the type of pain this type of loss causes. You will be the one to tell that person who shared that intimate nest with your father how sorry you are about losing him. This type of loss binds us to others who have experienced a similar type of loss – forever.

Moreover, you are very correct when you say, “love never dies." Love, is the one and only thing that death cannot take from us.

Love and peace to you – and all on this site,

John – Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack – and Dusky

A few things struck me when continuing to read the posts on this particular thread. Kayc’s comment that said, “I feel like I’m observing life from the sidelines” is certainly a true one and I have had the same feelings many times. Some of our friends and families may not understand sharing our feelings with people in an on-line grief site, however, for me each of you have become very dear “family” members. Each of us has to deal with grief in our own way and I am grateful to have found this wonderful site. It is indeed an essential piece of my healing process. I feel as KayC does – none of you are strangers. Moreover, I have a special kinship to KayC – who is on almost the same grief time line as I am – three and a half years. You are a special person to me KayC!

Singledad2 had a beautiful reminder when he said, “The mind is a very powerful and awesome tool that can provide us with very distinct memories. Don’t let those fade away – use those memories to help you get through the rough times.”

This message reminded me of one of the last of twenty poems I wrote in the first year following Jack’s death. It was early on the morning of January 19, 2007, the weather had turned usually cold the previous evening, and frost killed much of the vegetation in my yard - which was very unusual for the Phoenix area. As I sat there that morning, I wrote the following poem. It was a reminder to me that my memories were indeed a very powerful healing tool. Here is that poem – it is a repeat for some of you – but for so many of the new faces on this site it will be “new.”

“Memories Of Green”

A killing frost - fell on the ground

It took away life - all around

Green and fresh - what I recall

Living breathing plants - so tall

Remember how the sun would shine

How the rain would feed the vines

Remember how it was all small

And how it all grew into tall

And then the killing frost arrived

With mighty force - and deadly stride

It took away life – all around

As dusty white - fell on the ground

Death becomes what can be seen

But I have “Memories Of Green”

And so it is with cancers march

Just like the frost – a molten starch

It takes away all life around

It spreads and chocks - and turns life brown

Remember how - the sun would shine

How love became - the story line

Remember how - we grew from small

And how – we grew from small to tall

Life is like the frost we see

It sometimes kills the beauty

And underneath the killing frost

Are memories of all that’s lost

Death becomes what can be seen

But I have “Memories Of Green”

When frost has taken life from you

Erased and snatched what you grew

Remember how the sun would shine

How the rain would feed the vines

Death becomes what can be seen

But you have “Memories Of Green”

© John R. Davis 01/19/07

I hope the words of this poem help each of you in some way.

I would also like to invite each of you to visit my web site at http://findingmybananabreadman.com/ . It is filled with inspirational pieces of information as well as music. Although my web site was established to help promote my book, “Finding My Banana Bread Man”, I am not seeking sales by referring you to this site, but rather to provide another source of inspirational messages and music.

Love and peace to each of you

John – Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack – and Dusky

Marsha,

I know the feelings you are having and I still experience them at the three and a half year mark. Sometimes it is just difficult for me to believe Jack is gone. These feelings are especially evident during holidays and any date that marks something special like a birthday, anniversary or the date of his death. I am afraid that somethings - such as these feelings of disbelief - these days of seeking a "comfort zone" - are just something that stays with us - always. Over three years since Jacks death - this Christmas - was difficult - just as it was on the first, second and third Christmas without him. People don't notice the pain on my face as much any more (I have probably gotten good at concealing it) - but its there - for me. Its a pain I have learned to live with and accept. It does help knowing that others experiences the same pain, however it does not ever totally go away.

I have a dear friend that lost her husband 25 years ago. She told me recently that each year as the anniversary date of his death approaches - for about a month - she feels different - on edge - in anticipation of "that date." After 25 years I can still see tears in her eyes when she speaks about her husband and all the years that he never got to enjoy. That disbelief that he is gone still visits her from time to time. So I know what I have to look forward to.

I still experience these feelings of disbelief - and "yes," there are days when I can almost feel comatose - withdrawn - just wondering from room to room - somewhat aimlessly. Its as if I am looking for Jack - asking the question "where are you," and knowing that I will not receive a reply. Thats why I write - and why I wrote my book, "Finding My Banana Bread Man" - to help me "Find My Jack" - in the only way that I could - with my pen.

You are normal. Either that or we are all just a little crazy. And if we are crazy - I can't imagine a better group of people to be crazy with.

Love and peace to each of you

John - Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack - And Dusky

Fred,

What a beautiful message. This is a difficult time of the year - but somehow we seem to make it through each year. Your words were very comforting and caring and real. It's that "obligation to try to convey to the world outside this one a hint of what this life is like" that keeps me coming back to this site and the strength to go on. It's that - as you say - "responsibility as a survivor" that drives the one that remains forward.

You have done a beautiful job of expressing the meaning of this journey we are all on.

My best to you and all the wonderful people on this site.

John - Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack - and Dusky

May I add some insight and interpretation to My Christmas Letter. Consider the following:

I do not believe the writer of the message within my Christmas letter, which I found on the internet, was trying to imply that the death of a cat was small or insignificant. She used the word "may seem small" as a means to raise everyone’s awareness of how significant any loss is – of any species. She was using the death of “Minus the cat” to actually show how important any life is and how important the acts of kindness shown toward the griever were - following the death of “Minus.”

The tears I have shed for the loss of Dusky, our Dachshund who died 4 years ago during Jack’s illness, are just as real and painful as the ones shed for Jack.

The person quoted in my Christmas letter was actually showing us how important the cat “Minus” was, and was not in any way belittling “Minus.” She was showing us how much trust the owner of “Minus” placed in her (the writer) and others, and how he placed great trust in his friends to help him grieve the loss of his cat, and welcomed their words of encouragement.

It was not my attempt to raise controversy about a human’s death versus a pet’s death with my Christmas Letter. Rather the message within the letter was sent to all my friends, family and the members of our grief site, to allow us all time to reflect on the many faces of grief. To note how the smallest gestures extended to those who grieve are seen as large gestures to the one who is grieving.

Love and peace to each of you.

John – Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack – and Dusky.

To all my Grief Site Friends,

Each year I send out a Christmas Letter - some of them by mail and some by e-mail to my PC friends. During the last three years I now also send a copy to each of you. Below you will find this years version of my Christmas Letter. Here it is:

I recently ran across the following story about how much we all depend on one another to get though life.

Christmas is a good time to share this story. Sally Wagner, Public Information Officer and Ohio State Fire Marshall wrote it:

Wishing each of you a wonderful and peaceful Holiday Season

“Love you – Lots Lots”

John

__________________________________________________________________________

Wishing each of you peace and love this holiday season.

John - Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack

Happy Thanksgiving to each of you.

I began a tradition the year Jack died and have continued it each year for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I may have shared it in the past, however there are so many new faces on this site - as the years pass more and more lose someone they love.

Each year during these two holidays I light a series of candles and then before the holiday dinner the follow is read in memory of Jack - and now my Dad who died in 2007. Here is the message that is read. Perhaps some of you may find this comforting and decide to adopt the same beautiful ceremony:

_____________________________________________________________

I Remember Him

In the rising of the sun and its going down,

I remember him

In the blowing of the wind and in the chill of winter,

I remember him

In the opening of buds and in the rebirth of spring,

I remember him

In the warmth of the sun and the peace of the summer,

I remember him

In the rustling of the beauty of autumn,

I remember him

In the beginning of the year and when it ends,

I remember him

When I am weary and in need of strength,

I remember him

When I am lost and sick at heart,

I remember him

When I have joys and yearn to share,

I remember him

So long as I live, he shall live,

For he is now a part of me,

As I remember him

Because he has been here, I will be different than I would have been. I will have to become his legacy. He travels with me into tomorrow. He may have died, but love never ends.

__________________________________

Love and Peace to each of you and your families,

John - Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack

KayC,

This is the perfect place to come - and to talk about the end of a relationship. I wish I had some magic words that would make it all better, however, I do know that you're being on this site and talking about it is the perfect start to find more peace about it all.

The bottom line is that you are a wonderful person - which we can all attest to. We care for you deeply. We will help you through this loss.

With much love and respect for the fine person that you are.

John - Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack

Wendy,

I'm praying for your Mom and you today. Please keep us posted on any news.

Love and peace,

John - Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack

KayC,

I was so sorry to hear about your loss of Lucky. It's just heartbreaking to lose our little four legged friends.

Please go to this site (I also have it listed in my own website under the tab - "Memorial to Dusky" - http://findingmybananabreadman.com/ ) as a memory to him.

Any way the site I want you to see is as follows:

http://www.ladyjayes.com/rainbowbridge.html

I hope this helps,

Love and Peace,

John - Dusky is my handle on here.

Love you Jack

KayC,

I also wanted you to know that I have added Lucky's name to the "Memorial to Dusky" tab of my web site. If you go to my site at http://findingmybananabreadman.com/index.php?page_id=1 and then click on the "Memorial to Dusky" tab - you will find Luck's name - and you as the owner - listed on the site.

John - Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack

Hello All my friends,

Jack has been gone nearly 3 and a half years now. During the first few months follow his death and just before Christmas 2005 I gave Jack's son A Box filled with all the items that represented his father. Each one was wrapped and place in a box which i called "My Father's Box." I may have presented this idea to you before, however, there are so many new faces on this web site that I felt it may be appropriate to retell the story and present to you again this idea. Perhaps each of you have someone special in your life that also suffers from the loss of your partner/spouse or mate. What follows is a copy of the letter I gave to Jack's son along with "the box" that contained all the memories representing his father. Here is what the letter said:

_____________________________________________________________________________

“My Fathers Box”

Tommy,

In this box - “My Fathers Box” - are all the things in life that represents your Dad’s life and what he loved. They are items - that when you see them - they will bring back memories of who he was - and what gave him joy as he lived his life.

So many of these things are just “little things” – but when taken together – they truly give a sense of - who he was - what he did – and how he lived his life. Open each precious piece of memorabilia - and then keep it in this box as a constant reminder of that wonderful man you called “Dad”. Keep “My Fathers Box” of memories always - pass along the story that each item represents to your children – this will keep his memory alive and provide you comfort at the same time.

Your Dad loved so many things like ……….

• Lemon Curd and “Wintogreens” - Cherry Kool-Aid and Windmill Cookies – the Cherry Kool-Aid and Windmill Cookies had to go together.

• “I Can’t Believe Its Not Butter” and Gram Crackers – but it had to be the Honey Gram Crackers.

• Anything with Cranberries or Blueberries – But Cranberries were his all time favorite taste – Unless he was eating the Lemon Curd straight out of the jar.

• Jell-O – especially Pistachio or Cherry and Raspberry.

• Altoids Breath Mints – and tooth pickers – which he called Shep Pickers.

• Vitamins and Herbs – crazy for anything new – If there was a new “Snake Oil” being sold he was first in line.

• Darkkar Cologne – and the lotion too – and Gleem toothpaste – it had to be Gleem.

• Caress and Dove Soap in the Shower and Neutrogena Bath Gel – He loved Brand names – not generic.

• Contact Lens’s and Carmex for his lips – had to be Carmex.

• Sunglasses - expensive ones – like Serengeti – nothing cheap.

• Phones – Both Land Line and Cell – I often told him it was as if a phone was growing out of his ear.

• Cars – Car Shows - and especially Cadillac’s – he had 7.

• Tires for cars – loved to get new tires – sound familiar?

• Home Shows – when one was in town – we had to go.

• McDonalds – the Quarter Pounder with Cheese and Fries – along with a Diet Coke – to watch his weight.

• Movies – Movie Popcorn – on a Saturday, Sunday – or Friday or Monday Afternoon. He would cry at sad movies – He would also tell me he loved me.

• The Movie “Pretty Woman” – his all time favorite – he would watch it anytime – and Bruce Willis – if he was in a movie we had to see it.

• Anything that Patsy Cline sang – this was his favorite singer – He was very romantic and loved her love songs.

• Pillows – lots of pillows in bed – around him – must have made him feel warm and secure.

• Hairdryers and mirrors and dye and clippers and scissors and combs and brushes and the customers that went along with all these things.

• Arizona summers – and Thanksgiving and Christmas – he loved these two holidays. I always gave him one Christmas present as soon as the tree was put up. He always got one or two new Christmas ornaments each year – usually a Hallmark – nothing cheap.

• Anything and every thing to do with Family, Friends and Dachshunds – He really loved Dusky.

Your Dad – Just loved Life.

But the thing that he loved most in life will not fit in this box – nor is there any box big enough to hold his most precious love - since most of all he loved.......

You – and Me.

Love you Tom,

John

Dear Son – “Keep this Box – and Letter – together – pass along its contents and memories to Madison and Mia and I will live forever in your heart - as well as theirs.”

Love you Son,

Dad

_________________________________________________________________________

I hope this information will inspire some of you do do something similar in memory of your lost loved one.

John - Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack

KayC,

Thanks for helping us all remember what we loved most about our lost love.

I did this exercise years ago – within the first few months of Jack’s death. So here is my list – I had 23 things that I listed at that time – in no particular order:

1. Dependability

2. Sense of humor

3. Love of animals – especially Dachshunds

4. Romantic nature – how he said “I love you” so often

5. Cleanliness – neat and orderly

6. Good looks – and beautiful hair

7. Ability to live his entire life in the moment

8. Unending sense of happiness

9. Kind and gentle nature

10. Ability to weed through problems – and find correct answers

11. Wonderful business mind

12. Artistic ability – seen in his craft – hairstyling

13. His beautiful hands – strong and masculine

14. Ability to make friends – and keep them

15. His social abilities – friendly and warm always

16. How he was the center of attention – magnetic personality – yet unassuming

17. Silly funny ways he had – Like a Lucy Ricardo – fun to be around

18. Sensitivity

19. Loving

20. Wonderful wonderful culinary abilities

21. Man of great routine – once a tradition or ritual started – wanted to keep it

22. Love of family

23. Did not care about money

Written long ago – when I look at the words I wrote three years ago – his image and inner beauty are as fresh and close as if he were still with me. I miss him for all these 23 reasons and so much more.

John – Dusky is my handle on here

Love you Jack

Patti,

Wow - 4 years - which means I'll be arriving at that door in just a few months myself. The phrase I like the most when reflecting on this loss is "Some people never had this much to lose."

Love and Peace,

John - Dusky is my handle on here

love you Jack