BaxterBurg

26 minutes ago, kayc said:

My dad knew he was dying and made that decision, found out he'd been called to preach as a young person, not sure what happened.  I prayed for my them for years, but my mom made the conversion about a year after I did, I was 19.  I would have sooner but it took me a while to understand.

It is good to have that sense of community, I have it with my neighbors and my church.It's a good thing esp. in this time of isolation, esp. as I don't see my kids much and now my siblings excepting one.

Just don't expect any church to be perfect, they aren't, they're comprised of people!   Maybe look for one that believes similar to you, that's what I did.  I don't always agree 100% with everyone but that's okay too.  I do believe in my church' doctrine, that's why I picked it.  Not always with how it's run, but that's the way it is.  Organizations seem to be a necessary evil imo. 

 

That's interesting. And yeah, I kind of wish I had some community during all this. 

Thanks for the advice, I never much thought about it. A female friend of mine brought me to her church once, I didn't like it too much. It was non denominational and a bit too... Open is the word? Lots of performing rather than scripture, people dressed too casually, and there was something off putting about the people. It was strange to me to say the least. 

56 minutes ago, kayc said:

I wasn't raised with religion, I chose Christianity because it's how I've always felt/believed.  My parents were atheists but both changed before they died.

I've raised my family or I probably would be feeling the same as you!  Don't give up hope, I neither hope nor despair, I figure God is perfectly capable of bringing it about if He wants it. 

Beth and Bob met in church, his wife died and he asked her out, the rest is history!  

hmm thats very interesting. What made your parents change if you don't mind me asking?

I'm considering going to church, even if its just for a sense of community among like minded people. I adhere to most of the teachings already, and in my worst moments I prayed--its like a wave of relief washed over me. However, I'm unsure if I could ever fully adopt faith; Something about it makes me uncomfortable, maybe because I know I'm lying to myself. Oh well, at least I'll be in the first circle of hell with a lot of cool people lol.

I think the reason I want a family so bad is because it offers me some sort of redemption for how hard life is. Without god or heaven, there isn't much reason to suffer everyday, and I think a lot of people feel the same way. Having my ex gave me that redemption because everything I suffered doing was for my future family.

56 minutes ago, kayc said:

Don't give up hope, I neither hope nor despair

Reminds of a quote that I like: "keep your mind in hell but do not despair" by Saint Silouan.

56 minutes ago, kayc said:

Beth and Bob met in church, his wife died and he asked her out, the rest is history

It's great they were able to have that experience so late in life.

13 hours ago, kayc said:

I'm not interested in dating, nope, nada!  Friendship is fine.  There's one person I know that meets all my criteria, but unfortunately lives across the states from me, so there goes that.  But it's been so long now that I'm rather used to being alone, which has probably been a good thing for me, I've discovered so much about myself and developed confidence that God and I are a team and we'll get through this together, as long as I have to do this.  Gosh, I'll be 70 next year!

I think I told you quite a while ago that I had a friend who met the love of her life and married at age 84!  Those were the best years of her life.  So one can never say never, I'm sure she wasn't expecting that!

I fully understand why you don't want to date. I'm not too interested in dating myself, just want the family. I'm glad that you're fine being alone, I felt the same way usually. The religion for sure helps, which is why I wish I grew up within a religion, I can see lots of value in it. To me it just feels like I'm alone even though I have family and friends; she felt like my only friend and the only person I felt comfortable being myself with. But then she rejected me for it so that stings.

And you did yeah, I guess there's lots of time to find someone. How did they even meet at that age?

4 hours ago, kayc said:

Someone wants to start seeing me, he's years older and he might be okay for a friend (except he smokes and I can't be around it) but I so feel the "not interested" going strong...my heart already belongs to another and he's not here.

I think it's possible to have more than one soul mate possibility out there but I sure don't run into them!  It's harder the older you get, especially since I am NOT interested in dating on line or otherwise, I just hate it, I'd rather something develop naturally like it did George and I.  Friends first, take your time, get to know each other....take you time!  When we rush into things that's when we overlook things and by then our emotions are running high and we'd do anything to make it work, regardless of red flags or struggle or discomfort.  I'm not saying marriage is easy but for us it didn't FEEL like work!  We just naturally wanted to make the effort.  I was so lucky...

I can for sure understand the difficulties being older and trying to date. And I agree about the friendship first, that's why I thought me and my ex would have worked out. I thought we had a strong foundation. I lost "feelings" for her too when the grief struck, but I never would have thought of breaking up with her. There was no "inner conflict" in my mind about being with her like she had for me. Hoping we both find someone that makes us feel interested again; I just hope I can fully forgive myself for this experience. 

2 hours ago, kayc said:

This.  It's good to know what you're feeling and it does not sound like you're ready.  Timing is everything.  I did not meet George until my mid-40s.  By that time I'd 1) married a monster and barely escaped with my life.  2)Then married my kids dad, spent 23 years in a loveless cold marriage, he'd tried controlling us and a lot of emotional abuse.  I didn't know true love until I found it with George!  We "got" each other, related to each other, were comfortable with each other, had great love and respect for each other.  It's like there was him and me...and the rest of the world.  Then I lost him to death.  Is there such a thing as two soul mates in one lifetime?  Good question, some weigh in yes, some no.  The yes-ers have found love again after loss to death, the no-ers have not.  One can never rule it out, even with the first time...if you can't see it, it's because it hasn't happened for you YET.  Keep your heart open for the time when it's right, when you're ready, when the stars line up or however you want to call it!

I'm sorry you had to experience all that, it sounds awful. How you describe your love for George is how I genuinely felt with her before she went cold. It seemed she felt the same before, when we were just friends too. She was the only person I ever felt I had a connection and understanding with. We were moving fast, but we both seemed comfortable with it; we had plans to move out together soon. Everything just felt right. 

Personally I have no doubt there are multiple soul mates, it's just the path there is daunting, stressful, and filled with liars. And yes, you have to be open to love again to find it. You also have to be positive and healthy to attract someone else positive and healthy. 

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

second this wholeheartedly. I understand it's really hard not to take such rejection personally, but at some point, you have to accept she just isn't right for you. It took me over a year to feel fully ready, emotionally, to move forward from Joe. I tried to rush it by going on dates and being set up by friends. It just made me feel empty and worse off because all I did was compare them to him, never giving them a fair chance, because I wasn't ready and didn't want to date again, I did because I assumed it's just what everyone did.

These days, I would rather be friends first and then engage in dating if we both wanted to, but that does not mean I am going to close myself off to other potential suitors/living my life to wait around for one guy. There is a guy I do like now, but I am perfectly fine just being friends as he has some life things he needs to deal with that I do not want cast unto me, and we are both busy with our lives, and I do not want to get my hopes up or assume things between us. If we choose to only remain friends as time passes, that's okay too

Thanks Rae, appreciate the response. I guess I do just have to accept it as that, although it will probably always linger. I for sure don't feel ready at all to date again; I find it difficult to even find people attractive anymore. I just can't get over this fear I have though, and it drives me into obsessing over finding someone soon. 

In terms of being friends first, I very much agree. I feel like this establishes a pretty good foundation without committing yet. Her and I should have remained friends until everything had passed. 

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

Then don't bother with dating, and politely decline any invitation for the time being. It's not fair to her to be compared to someone who she will never be and to be given false hope that there is any potential between the two of you for more than casual friendship. If you're not ready to date again, or even just engage on a friendly level, don't. Don't rush yourself with things like this, you will find someone when you are ready to, regardless of your friends trying to set you up, ultimately, the choice to engage with these potential dates is yours and yours alone. Be kind to yourself the way you are to others. Everyone deserves kindness, including ourselves

Wasn't planning on it,and I told him I wasn't interested at the moment. Really feels like I have nothing to give someone even if they were perfect. Just feel tired and I can't find a break yet because of school/work. I wish I could just sleep for a month. So exhausted still from these 3 months; I've never felt so burnt out. 

Today I met a girl that my friend seems to want to try and set me up with. She was cute, but I already know I could never see a future with her. She's not even close to what my ex was.

On 2/18/2021 at 10:17 AM, kayc said:

Did it ever occur to you that she just isn't the one for you!  When George and I met and became friends, we eventually fell in love, the attraction was there inside and out and neither of us could picture life without the other!  That IS how it should be going into marriage!  That love carries you through the hard times. 

I thought that this is how me and her felt, but I guess maybe it wasn't the same on her end. We both started as friends for 6 months and it was obvious to everyone in our friend group that we had feelings for each other. We got to know one another very well. I was an open book with her and shared a lot--stuff I never told anyone--and she shared things with me that she never did to anyone as well. We talked about things that her and her ex never did like having a family, getting married, values, things that interested her. We were pretty close.

It seemed to just flow when we dated, and she always seemed so impressed with me. Maybe she didn't feel the same, I don't know, but it genuinely felt like things were just going to work out between us--I had no fears. Before and after the relationship she said she never knew what a relationship should be like until she met me.

It's possible with time I'm only remembering her positives; but generally I think that if someone is a decent match than finding the one doesn't matter as much. In today's world that feels more like a pipe dream for people my age right now, and I'd probably never find them. Most people think there's greener pastures, but usually that's not the case, unless who you're dating is actually an awful person. Lots of people wait for the one, turn down decent people, and then settle for someone awful or truly not meant for them just so they can manage to have kids before its too late. Reminds me of my own parents.

I could go on forever, but it doesn't change the fact that she's gone, and I just have to find someone new anyways. She could be with her ex right now, or dating someone else, and in reality she was far more special to me than I ever was to her. Only in my next relationship will I ever gain perspective. But in my entire life, I have never met anyone I felt such a connection with, and she was practically the only girl I ever asked out--and I did it twice! I'm most likely just romantisizing the relationship though. 

I wrote WAY too much again.

12 hours ago, CommanderCody said:

Hey man, it's alright I know how this must be so hard for you to move on - but hey, look  at it this way, both of us, this was our first time handling a real relationship but sadly there was grief involved. You can't blame ourselves for not knowing what's the right thing to do or say in this situation because it's a new experience to us! Trust me when I say that I've blamed myself countless times in the past because how much I screwed up. If I haven't only shown my emotions, drop a tear in front of her, maybe this wouldn't happen - but that's not the case. I've replayed memories in my head a thousand times i and I realized that it's okay that things happened the way it is. I shouldn't make myself suffer for the mistakes I've done because I'm much better as a person now; I accepted those mistakes, learned from it and forgiven myself for it - that's the only way we could move forward. We can't have a happy present if we can't make peace with the past. 

Thanks Cody, this helps. I guess I shouldn't be so hard with myself since i never dealt with a grieving person or a even a relationship before. You're right. The only thing we can do is to take what positives we can from this situation and become stronger for it. And yeah, I'm just going to suffer if I can't forgive myself and live in the past. I've said all these things before, but its hard to remember and take to heart. Its easier just to beat myself up all day. Feels like a constant battle with my mind.

4 hours ago, LostAndNotFound said:

I do believe he'll come back to me when he's ready.

I really believed this too, and I was very confident that she would come back. Sadly, this hope slowly diminished. As time goes on the loss will sink in more and hope will slowly fade. I really do hope things work out for you two, but if you read many of the posts here, it's unlikely. Part of me still hopes that she will come back, but I don't envision my future with her anymore. 

4 hours ago, LostAndNotFound said:

I sent him a text yesterday as i had found a podcast regarding grief and said i hope he's doing well. I know he's a fan of podcasts so thought it would be helpful. He responded really quickly saying "that's thoughtful of you, i'm doing better slowly but surely, hope you're good" I replied saying "that's good to hear, i'm here if you need someone to talk to. I'll continue to give you your space for now and my offers there. It would be good to talk when you're ready but there's no rush. I miss you" He replied again within seconds too saying "I miss you too just know that x". So this has given me some hope that in time he will be able to talk to me, i'm trying to stay positive but as i mentioned in my earlier posts I need to prepare myself if that isn't the outcome. I'm not sure I will be able to cope if it doesn't happen. 

If you read my entire the thread, I did the same as you by offering grief resources. Maybe that's what inspired you. Hopefully he's able to fix himself, although its not fair for you to be waiting in the wings for someone who may never come back. My ex expected me to wait until school started to have an in person discussion; this is maybe 7 months from now if we even have class in person. Try your best to move on, but I know how hard and daunting that is and will be. And again, I hope for the best and that he does come back. But importantly, you have to consider whether he will do this again to you. Is this someone you can trust in a long term relationship? Do you want to have to go through this again?

4 hours ago, LostAndNotFound said:

don't blame him for what has happened, I just find it hard to understand. All of my friends have told me to walk away and I shouldn't be treated like this but these forums have made me realise that there isn't one particular behaviour when grieving. My own dad died when I was 11 and my parents weren't together, he was and alcoholic physically abusive to me and my mum so it's a good thing they weren't together in the end. It did affect me at that age and has set a precedent for my future path, but I was very young. I did bereavement counselling but it didn't help much.

My dad also died when I was 9; however, I don't recall actually grieving that loss,nor my aunt and grandmother this year. My family has never really grieved in the way my ex has. So this situation was especially confusing to me as well. I was kind of shocked how badly she was taking the whole thing. I've never seen anyone react in that way. And I'm sorry to hear about what you had to experience as a child, that's awful. 

4 hours ago, LostAndNotFound said:

That is the timeline I had in my mind, if i can stick it out till then, then i may feel differently about the situation or have the same mindset I have now but I do heed your warning. I think my best port of call like both you and Kayc have said it just to give him space and let things cool down and hopefully he'll come to me when he's ready. I need to stay strong and not take it all so personally. 

Be careful about setting a timeline. Often NC becomes a sort of hobby; try not to let it consume your mind, as hard as that sounds. And trust me: it's hard. I still think of my ex every single day, and it's been 3 months. Do your best to live your life, treat yourself a little if you can. It's a tough road ahead, but we'll be here for you if you need it. 

And try not to take it personally as you said. I'm taking it incredibly personal because she had some criticisims of me before making the final decision. We also just got the chance to be Intimate with each other due to covid, and so of course that drives me insane. In your case though it does seem to be the grief, and he seems to be trying , as well as your link to his step dad being sick; so yes--don't take it personally. This is because of what, and more importantly HOW, he is dealing with the situation--not you. My ex seemed to pull away from me when her grandfather went bed bound. It seems to be anticipatory grief, if it is in fact the grief causng all this.

Take care of yourself

Hi lost, 

I'm currently at work and unable to say much at the moment, but I'm very sorry you're having to go through all this.

At first glance, I can fully understand the frustration that you felt when he wasn't treating you the way he should or when he is able to get a new dog and post about it while leaving you hanging. I felt the exact same way when my ex was being hot and cold while posting a bunch of selfies on social media. The thing that angered me the most was when she posted a video if her singing with a heart emoji on it--she hadn't sent me a heart for over a month, and got upset when I joked about her doing it again. 

And it's okay to have some regrets about how you reacted sometimes, we all have emotions and it's difficult for us too. Don't be hard on yourself if you are, most of us here had no clue how to deal with a situation like this either. But I agree with Kayc, pressure and anger will only push them further away; it's best if there is a cooling off period. 

I've also experienced the coldness you mentioned, and I understand how awful that feels. It's hard to comprehend how someone can go from a loving and warm voice to a cold indifference. It's incredibly hurtful, especially when things seemed to have been going well before. 

In terms of how you felt you were treated and how much you should forgive for grief is difficult. I find myself thinking about this all the time. It's possible we both saw them for who they really were, without the rose colored glasses of the honeymoon phase--the person they pretended to be. 

If you read my thread, at least near the end, you can get an understanding of the benefits of NC that kayc has suggested. It's up to you if you want to try and make this work, however you're going to experience a lot of pain while doing so. The confusion on his end may never stop, and there's only so much of that you can take. I reached my breaking point after a month, and I was utterly burnt out. I reached out after 32 days and the wound was reopened-- I had to deal with the break up all over again. Keep this in mind. 

Sorry if I missed anything, I've only been able to skim through currently. 

Take care, 

-BB

15 hours ago, kayc said:

This is very telling.  Try not to put such time constraints on yourself, men's clocks don't run out like women's so why are you feeling this so strongly?  My daughter is 38 and her husband filed divorce, she miscarried a few years ago and that when he left her (who does that!)...now HER "clock" is running out!  She said she'd take kids any way she could get them, step, adopt, birth, but alas she never meets anyone as she's always working to make ends meet.  It would be the biggest sorrow in the world if she never got to have kids, she was born to be a mom and was always so good with them.

I get wanting kids.  I get the fear of not having them.  I went through five years of fertility treatment before I finally had mine.  (PCOS)  And I'm glad I did.  I imagine it will happen for you, you just need to find the one...

I recall reading your story elsewhere, and I really feel for her, seriously. That story scares the hell out of me for a few reasons. The reason I feel time contraints is that I tend to think if I can't meet someone in university, and at this age in general, I'm going to miss out on the girls who are putting family first, and its only going to get so much harder. Once youleave uni, your life starts, and your options seem to dwindle to work or "going out". I also really want kids at a younger age, I don't want to be raising kids at the same age as my mom/dad. I feel like people at that age just settle because they realize they don't have time left. My mom and dad just decided after a month of dating to have a kid because they were both old it seems.

I really felt like I found the person who wanted the same, and I still would have done anything to make that relationship work. Despite her flaws, I think the postives she had outweighed the negatives, and I still think we were both compatable for the most part; although, a mutual friend said he didn't think we would work out.

 I just feel incredibly frustrated with myself. Although she was adement about not knowing why she lost feelings for me, that "there was no reason she wouldn't want to be with me", and that she " just can't handle a relationship right now", I still feel as though it was my fault because I acted weak. I wasn't the confident guy she fell in love with; I had my own problems and family issues on top of her pulling away from me + worrying about her 24-7 : I cracked under the pressure. I wish I had been stronger. During her doubting stage she mentioned how I "react" to things as one of her problems with me. This kind of veered off the orginal topic, but I feel like I had to let this off my chest because its warping my mind. This situation is just so frustrating to me for so many reasons. I hate her and love her at the same time.

I might just be being dramatic here, but its the only place I feel like I can write these things out. Maybe someone else can relate too. Ultimatly, I guess it doesn't matter, because its over, and I can't change the past. The present is what it is, and I gotta just scrape whatever positives I canfrom this experience. Though I feel like these bad memories will just make future relationships harder, and for more reasons than I want to to put on a public forum.

10 hours ago, kayc said:

used to settle and do my best to make a square peg fit into a round hole, but no more.  I haven't even dated for 10 1/2 years, and that's okay by me

my mom is more or less the same. After my dad died she said there was no point in dating again. Shes been alone for 11 years, but I have been here still. However, she claims to hve never loved anyone before.

Theres nothing wrong with being alone, its honestly less stressful; but I'm just very concerned about having a family, its something I really want. If I was like my mom or you, I probably wouldn't care too much. As long as I had my kids, I would be content. I feel like I'm running out of time or something, so I feel some urgency. I think I loved her more for what she could have givn me, rather than who she was. Maybe i will gain perspective when i really do meet someone who captivates me.

But in the meantime this anxiety is causing me lots of pain, and I don't know what to do about it. I can't get over the fear of not finding someone with the same values, its killing me everyday. 

Hey Rae, I appreciate the response. I was feeling pretty depresed again, but this helped me a lot.

On 2/15/2021 at 12:30 PM, Rae1991 said:

at least now you know where she stands

Unless I'm just not taking the hint, I feel like I don't really. I guess I know its a"not right now" but it doesn't help me much. I don't understand why she is incapable of just telling me its over for good, and to just leave her alone or something. I feel like that would be a lot simpler on her end, rather then to just keep saying "im uncomfortable with this right now" Most people just say she's a coward, or shes keeping me as an option. For my own sanity, I might just give her the benfit of the doubt and keep moving forward as best I can.

On 2/15/2021 at 12:30 PM, Rae1991 said:

I went through this with Tim, when his dad first died and he didn't respond to my messages for a week. Then for weeks after he said he didn't want to break up, he still didn't respond and the empty feeling of rejection and abandonment set in. I think that's why I ended up taking him back, because he created a void and then simultaneously claimed he was going to fill it, and all he did was make the void deeper, and I allowed it by resuming our relationship against my better judgement

Our stories do seem a bit similiar. I'll keep what you have said in mind, because I do feel a bad sense of abandonment, and might do something I shouldn't--though I don't think shes coming back anyway, unlike Tim.

On 2/15/2021 at 12:30 PM, Rae1991 said:

You mentioned in a previous post that you don't/didn't think you'll find anyone else, and that's why you felt so attached and desperate for her attention. I call that the "scarcity mindset," and a lot of people operate from that due to deep insecurity, I used to, too. It's the belief that you're not good enough, no one finds you attractive, that you're not desirable or lovable, so you'll chase after and settle for the first person that gives you the attention you crave, even if they've expressed little or no interest or treat you poorly. I won't say you'll grow out of it, because some never do, but it is something you need to actively be aware of and working on over time. Mental and emotional health are not static, they need to be regularly assessed and worked on like a car.

I wouldn't say it comes from insecurity as much. I've gotten attention form girls, I'm confident in my appearence and personality, I don't think thats so much a problem. it's more so that I keep placing her on a pedastel. Its just hard for me to find people in general with similiar values, so I feel like im willing to put myself through abuse just to retain someone like that. She was also just objectivly very attractive, so thats more so where some insecurity applies. I also just hate playing "the game" of dating, it feels like a waste of time--having her meant I didn't have to play it. But you're right, it is the scarcity that is causing me physical pain.

I'll keep this in mind though because I'm sure I do have some underlying insecurity. Its probably a mix of things.

On 2/15/2021 at 12:30 PM, Rae1991 said:

Leave her be, go back to your life and continue to be who you are, being single or alone isn't a curse, but a gift. Use this time to work on becoming better and happier. The best revenge after all, is being fulfilled, happy and whole.

For sure. I have no problem being alone, I actually wasn't really looking, she just kind of showed up and we were friends. It was obvious to everyone else we had feelings for eachother; she broke up with her bf, so we just started. Thats why its odd to me that this ended so soon, unless she was really just using me for comfort to get over her ex/crisis.

I enjoy making my own schedule and having no social obligation to anyone. It was more about having a family for me, it kind of fueled eveything I did; I just assumed me and her would work out. But I think she was pretending to be someone for me, not sure.

Thanks again for the reposne Rae, appreciate it.

Hello Cygnet,

I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position, and I can understand how frustrating it must be to lose not only D, but also the relationship prior. Now, I don't have much relationship experience outside of the one you may have read, so I think Kayc is more qualified to give you advice there. Though, from what I have gathered from research, as well as what you have probably already picked up on, is that some don't have the ability to grieve and maintain a relationship at the same time. There are certain expectations in a relationship that they just don't feel they have the capacity to reciprocate--its suffocating and they push us away. Don't be hard on yourself over this, you had no idea that this would happen.

1 hour ago, Cygnet12 said:

I am here because I am so sad about it. I keep crying all the time and am so depressed

Your reaction is very understandable, and something that all of us here have gone through, but maybe for different reasons. It's incredibly frustrating knowing that something, seemingly outside of your control, has come in the way of your hopes for the future. However, it may be helpful if you think of it as exactly that: out of your control. What is in your control is how you internally deal with the now. Its okay to be sad and depressed--its a sad and depressing situation. But we must live in our current situation, not in what could have been or what could have been different. Think of this as one door closing and another opening. In my opinion, and feel free to disregard it, is that your first ex wasn't willing to commit to you; and the second was also an ex, and who knows, maybe trying things out again would have ended with you in more hurt. I see a potential light at the end of the tunnel here to maybe a more committed and loving relationship (if thats whats you desire). Its best to think positively, even if its hard to see right now. 

1 hour ago, Cygnet12 said:

I am having a lot of trouble with it and had a breakdown in front of my friends this weekend when we were trying to have fun and realized I need another outlet for this pain

I'm sure your friends don't mind being there for you, mine have been more than supportive and I know I would do the same for them--Thats what friends are for. But I understand that you may feel that you are burdening them with your problems; though I'm sure they wouldn't look at it that way. Feel free to post here if you're feeling down.

Hope this helps, take care.

On 2/8/2021 at 7:43 AM, kayc said:

Absolutely.  That's why I WILL and DO not recommend this.  It takes time to heal and gain clarity, we need to give ourselves that.  If you give it more time, you will likely be healed enough to not have such high emotional response and can see clearly itt was not meant to be.  As it is, in the thick of it, you feel all of the wishing you could get back, change things, pain, rejections, etc. etc.

Yeah, you're right. I thought I had gained clarity, and reached a state of indifference over her, but the feelings rushed back and I felt stuck in the situation again.

However, I have a strong suspicion she went back to her bad ex within this time frame and she's keeping me on the back burner, or talking to me out of guilt. She's also just acting weird, and her personality changed since we last talked. I think she tried to adopt my personality in the relationship and now she's going back to her high school self and old relationship. It's like she took a step into the adult world and is retreating back into being a child who hides from negative feelings.

This is where I let go and end this chapter of my life. 

The one positive I can say about exiting NC is that it gave me closure. Her waffling left hope and I kept convincing myself she was someone I wanted. It took like 12 people telling me the same thing and this to genuinely move on. I'm hurting but at least I'm free. 

Thanks for everyone's help through this. I hope it helps someone else in the same situation. It's very possible that many of the people who leave during grief can be explained by immaturity/fear of pain. That's how it comes off to me anyway. 

Hey everyone, just wanted to give an update for anyone who's in the same boat.

I decided to reach out after 32 days of NC, and I know many people in my situation are always considering doing the same thing. Unlike others though, I genuinly wanted to stay in NC and hide. While I wouldn't tell you not to do the same, its only fair that you know whats at risk. In short, my progress has been set back significantly, and the physical pain and tears have returned. It is like reopening a wound.

I had rebuilt myself quite well before doing this, and I was decently happy/optimistic, but also deeply bothered by some of the things that occured between us after I was able to reflect. Some of it will actually scar me forever. Moreover, I was, and still am, convinced that if someone loses feelings for you, especially a month before breaking it off, no amount of NC would ever bring those feelings back.

Before leaving, she said she would be there for me if I needed to talk, but she kind of brushed me off saying something "significant" has happened since we last talked, she has a lot on her plate, and she just doesn't feel comfortable bringing up "that time" right now. I understand though, and I'm a bit worried for her. I don't think she's doing well.

Overall, the conversation was good, but I can't tell if she's just talking to me out of pity/guilt, which is kind of humiliating; might just be bthering her too. I kind of wish she had ignored me because that would have at least given me closure. But I guess thats something to consider if you do go back. Just going to leave her be, I need to focus on school at this point. 

Just a warning for those looking to end NC.

3 hours ago, Lynn2021 said:

I am sorry you are a "dumpee" -- I've been on that side of the process and it is just awful. You feel confused and powerless. All I can say is try to be patient and give that person space and focus on yourself

I appreciate the advice, and I am slowly getting back into my old ways. She never asked for space, so I ended up not giving it--even though we both desperaty needed to. Things have become a bit bitter, so that chapter of my life I think is over and that's okay with me now. 

3 hours ago, Lynn2021 said:

I was very close to my grandmother, who died while I was pregnant with my daughter 14 years ago. I had other grandparents and an aunt die before then but she was probably my most significant loss -- until my Dad last year. I think people definitely grieve differently from each other, but also possibly from themselves. I think of my grandmother every day since she died. Same with my Dad. However, I am surprised to discover that how I've grieved for my Dad is not only totally different than when I lost her, it's different today than it was 3 months ago, than it was when I first heard about it. I knew grief could evolve over time but I did not expect such startling changes in myself. I am not a person to hold in emotion or not communicate and usually very social. I'm a talker, to put it bluntly. However, since my Dad's death I've become more of an introvert, quieter, less inclined to share my emotions (sometimes that last one is self preservation). 

Thanks for sharing, this gives me some insight. I've heard from people on this site that you are a new person after grief: It's something that you always carry, just in new forms than it was before--it evolves as you say. The greiving of my relationship has changed me as well, and actually in the oppisite way. I used to be quiet and reserved--I would never speak of a single emotion, nor would I let anyone know about my life, not even my own mother. I never cried in front of anyone before. Now I find myself spilling every intimate detail of myself, my feelings, and what haeppened with anyone close to me. If I feel like crying, I just do it. My Father died when I was 9, my aunt when I was 12, and my grandmother earlier this year; no tears until this experience. These experiences seem to change us quite a bit.

I wish you well.

Hello Lyn,

I have read your story, and am very sorry you and your husband are going through this. I can't imagine how hard this must be for you both. In terms of advice, I don't have much to give -- I'm just a 20 year old who has experienced being the "dumpee". However, I appreciate you offering your perspective as the greiver, it's still something I want to figure out and prepare for, for future relationships. The way my family and I have grieved seems to be much different than how others seem to--I had no idea. I'm sure some of the other users here will be able to offer you some useful advice soon.

-BB

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

As far as the advice goes on red flags, I will post articles and video links because they can explain it in a way that is more concise and relatable than I could. There's also thousands of others available. Mind you, take this advice with a grain of salt as there are variances and some dating advice is just bad, and being able to see this behavior is a good way to spot these in yourself as well so you can work on them and improve yourself. Remember dating is a lot of trial and error, stop putting so much energy into and pressure on yourself and your dates. If they're not what you want, or vice versa, don't take it personally. Just keep on. Learn to just enjoy the date/conversation for what it is without the expectation that it will turn into a relationship. You're not supposed to date every person you meet. Just enjoy your life, have hobbies, join classes, join gyms, do things you've wanted to do, work on yourself and you will find people with similar interests and widen your dating pool. Don't take rejection personally, think of it as a redirect. You're not right for everyone because you're not supposed to be. Have confidence, know who you are and what you want from a partner and relationship:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/dating-red-flags-guide-avoid-psychology-power-tinder-dates-secrets-a8849541.html

https://www.self.com/story/relationship-red-flags-never-ignore

https://firstthings.org/8-warning-signs-of-unhealthy-dating-relationships/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/millennial-media/201312/13-dating-red-flags-women Even though it says "women," many of these are universal to dating in general

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGsG6HyZLuk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QuDIvOL0Ac

 

As I mentioned, even if the video/post specifies a certain gender, it's pretty universal advice for anyone dating.

Thanks Rae. I think I have a lot of this mindset nailed done already, I just gotta bring it back to where it was prior to this mess. Me and her just had too many plans set out, and too many bad experiences--I think that's why its killing me right now. I'll check these out.

2 minutes ago, kayc said:

Don't look there, that's why no contact includes access to social media and "friends" reports

You're right. I didn't bother blocking her on twitter because she never ever posted there; She only went on there because I would send her things. It took me off guard and just showed up on my home page. Social media is brutal, we should go back to just writing letters haha.

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

You seem to be about the age I was when Joe (my first boyfriend ever, and ex before I dated Tim) and I broke up, I was 21 and he was 25, we were engaged, living together and had been together since I was 14. Joe cheated for a year before finally deciding to tell me "he loved me, but liked her..." he left me for a 16 year old girl. In 2016, about 3 months after things ended for good between Tim and I, and I was leaving the city to move for work, he finally apologized for how he treated me. Joe explained that had he met me now (2016) he would've been able to commit and marry me because he had grown up a bit, dated around and gotten 'it' out of his system. He too asked to reconcile and try again. We had been broken up at that point for almost 4 years and had no contact. I feel the only reason Joe did this was because he was lonely and felt guilty, as that girl he cheated with and left me for did exactly that to him some time later. By then I wanted none of his apologies and no longer cared, I refused his offer to reconcile and don't regret it one bit, even to this day. We grew apart as we got older, we were right for a time, but what I wanted changed and he was no longer it.

I remember Tim telling me, early on in 2016, that if his dad hadn't died, we would've stayed together. I don't believe that because we were fundamentally incompatible, there were glaring red flags and character flaws, and he treated me, my goals and career aspirations as a competitor rather than a partner, and I started to understand and recognize that in the months after things ended. Tim was great on paper, but in real life he was an emotionally unavailable workaholic who was given a job through nepotism, lazy, unambitious and had no desire to move forward in his life or do anything different. I had just graduated school, had travel and career plans, and was already looking for jobs in other states.

I say all that to say: This does not last, and in time you will begin to recognize (as you're already doing) the character flaws and incompatibility between the two of you. I read Selena's post and agree as well, your ex has severe communication issues and she is insecure on a level that is too deep for you to help with. She needs to fix those issues herself, it's not your job to do that. She seems young and is still figuring out her own identity, I used to say/believe "Im not like other girls" to be appealing to men and to try and be different; but to be honest, that's just a backhand insult to yourself and one that women often hear from men to make them feel special. It's not a compliment at all.

It sounds like she wanted friendship to assuage the guilt she feels and to keep you around to boost her self esteem, not because she actually wanted to maintain a real friendship. You said she stayed with an ex who neglected her, that's common. She lacks the self-awareness to understand why she's drawn to and stays with guys like that, and I am sure with time and therapy she will hopefully recognize that these men do no change their ways and that no good comes from staying. She is self-sabotaging and that comes from insecurity and naivety, both are common in your teens and 20s, but she needs to do the work to practice better lifestyle and coping habits (as do most people as they age). She may have thought she was ready to be in a relationship "that defined what relationships should be" but her inability to deal with her own problems, self-sabotaging/fulfilling prophecies, lack of trust and deep insecurity can dismantle even the best relationships. Despite it only being a few months, it sounds like that is partially what happened, her grief simply expedited these issues coming to head in time.

😊 Rae

Hello Rae.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that, I can't imagine being cheated on, seriously. I'm inspired by your strength to refuse him when he came back; I feel that I need this strength as well. I feel weak because I keep wanting her to come back even though I don't think I have feelings for her. I think it stems from fear of not finding someone else; its hard for me to click with people, and dating isn't something I'm too interested in. 

You and Selena are right about the identity etc. She seemed to have adopted this identity after leaving highschool and being more exposed to politics--I'm sure i influenced her as well. I hope in time she is able to gain some perspective on this relationship later on; that gives me some solace through all this. I hate that she had to make me suffer for so long while she was figuring herself out. I just don't know how to find someone who knows what they want: People being so unsure or searching for an identity seems like one of those problems of modernity. I know who I am, and I've always been confident in exactly what I want out of life; i told her everything right off the bat. I don't want to have to go through constant pain because the people I date don't know what they want. Do you have an advice here? What are the red flags to look out for?

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

It sounds like she wanted friendship to assuage the guilt she feels and to keep you around to boost her self esteem, not because she actually wanted to maintain a real friendship

hm, that's a sad thought. I hope she isn't that selfish... I have this gut feeling though that she is getting angier at me through NC. She posted some weird thing on twitter that seemed directed at me after 17 days of NC. She also stopped viewing and likingm y social media posts. She probably didn't like that I told her off bascially either. I'll show you what she said in a private message.

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

but her inability to deal with her own problems, self-sabotaging/fulfilling prophecies, lack of trust and deep insecurity can dismantle even the best relationships

The way she deals with her problems is by ignoring them and pretending they arn't there. She has a fear of pain I've noticed, and would rather just go on as if it didnt happen. Thats how she was dealing with grief as well. She didn't want to talk about her problems with me because she said it was "complaining" but i could subtetly tell she always wanted me to bring it up so she coud cry and let it all out. Thats what I would for for her all the time, almost everyday. Made me feel terrible though. Seeing her in pain would really upset me, and when she wouldn't tell me her feelings i felt useless and shame. I guess thats a guy thing, always wanting to help etc. 

Thanks Rae, I think you have some excellent insights here. Appreciate it.

10 hours ago, Rae1991 said:

grief reveals holes and red flags in a relationship we were blinded to, and it simply expedites the end of a relationship that already had an expiry date.

I think you are right here. I laid out my entire self to her when we were friends for 5 months--we talked a lot about what we beleived, wanted in life, etc. She had some "problems" with me. She still chose to date me, but I know she always carried these doubts int the relationship. Her communication style was "passive" and she didnt want to start problems. In her past relationship, she just let the negelct happen. She told me she "isn't one for starting problems" and never wanted arguments, so she never spoke up. These doubts she just threw at me at the end of the relationship, and only after I asked her: "do you have any problems with me?" I was tying to figure out why she was being so cold and pulling away from me. Prior, she wouldn't tell me anything. I asked her for weeks why she was sad and she wouldn't even tell me. I asked her why there was some distnace between us--nothing! Just all of the sudden the good mornings stopped, no more I love you's, no more hearts. after a while I just jokingly said that I would love to see a heart while im at work and she got upset with me.

 I asked her when she was doubting me: You knew I was like this from the start, why is it a problem now? And it seemd she was now weighing whether this would be a good long term relationship--she said "the hneymoon phase is over and I don't know if this will be good in the long run" (who says something like this?) I guess the grief pushed her into making a decision and her grandfathers turn for the worst made her unable to handle it anymore. She's still confused as you say. I was expecting this break up everyday for a month. It was terrible. She left me in uncertainty twice not even knowing if we were still together until the next day. She said she didn't mean to do that to me, but that was incredibly inconsiderate. 

The other user Selena says her communication is what led to this, and I beleive that to be true.

Thanks Rae, your post helps me a lot, and gives me plenty to consider.

Hello Rae, I really appreciate you reading and responding to my post.

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

4.5 years ago, my then boyfriend of about 18 months Tim (I know it says 14 months in previous threads, but I realize now that was an error on my part) left me abruptly when his dad died. He didn't even tell me, he just stopped returning my calls. A week went by before I just went to his house and asked him what happened. He then told me, but explained he just needed alone time and that he didn't want to break up and that he just needed a few days to himself. "A few days" turned into 3 months. By then I was just as confused and had come to the conclusion our relationship was over so I had started the process of moving forward. Then he came back, apologized and said he wanted to reconcile, and I believed him because I was still in love with him. Things went fine for about 3 months before he disappeared a second time. No explanation, not even a word. By then I was just done and had nothing to say, but it still hurt all over again. Never let someone tell you they don't want you twice.

I have read your story a few times on here, and I'm very sorry you had to go though that. It makes me thankful that she didn't do something that drastic. Although, maybe it would have been easier if she just left cmpletetly. It seemd that she desperatly wanted space away from me but wouldn't ask for it; she didn't want to be "that girl" that just throws their ex to the curb, and leaves and doesn't give answers after a break up. But you're story has given me a lot to think about regarding second chances. I can't ever see the spark coming bck after all thats happened, there just too many bad memories. We had maybe a month or two of being bf/gf but still limited by covid. At this point, there been much more bad than good, and who knows how long thie fallout will last, I'm still hurting. I hate to say that my first love experience has been the worst few months of my life. And I think she has some serious issues that she needs to deal with, I could see her maybe breaking up with me twice. 

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

She is sending mixed signals, plain and simple. She is confused and unsure of what she wants, and she's bringing you into her confusion, even if unintentionally. Have you ever heard the saying "misery loves company?" Well, so does confusion. That's not fair to you. While her intent may not be malicious, it still affects you in a negative way and keeps you holding onto the hope that she may get back together in the future. If she chooses not to resume the relationship, it will only crush you all over again. I know this from experience

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

Why would you want to continue begging someone to love you after they already made it clear they don't want you? Especially now that she's jerking you around emotionally because she is confused. You said it yourself, you feel "done," tapped out and exhausted, that's your body and mind telling you what your heart doesn't want to accept. I have come to realize that often, grief reveals holes and red flags in a relationship we were blinded to, and it simply expedites the end of a relationship that already had an expiry date.

You're 100% right, and I did reach my breaking point as you maybe read earlier. I left with some possibly harsh words towards her, saying that if she wants this to work then thts up to her. I've done all I can at this point and we need some time apart because she needs to heal. I said some other things that maybe were too bold but I felt that I had to push her away somewhat to save myelf. I was getting so angry with her after she wouldn't even give me a yes or no answer on doing something with me. It felt like a f*** you despite me just helping her with school and being there for her.

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

My reaction to grief was also a symptom of much deeper issues I refused to confront that had nothing to do with the grief itself. I have come to realize these intense reactions and abandonment of partners and destructive behavior, are symptoms of deeper problems

hmm I'v been thinking about this a lot recently. She stayed in a relationship with an ex who negelected her for 3 years because she didnt want to be lonely and because they had "chemistry". I also have a feeling that something bad was going on there, but she never told me. Even after our break up I asked why she stayed for so long, and she went into a long story about how awful he was, and she still said that our relationship put it into perpspective on what a relationship should be like.

But she seemingly came from a very nice home. I met her family and they seemed very nice. She was very close with them, and they often worked as a single unit through everything. 

My ex also seemed to be deeply insecure, I'm not sure why. She started posting selfies like crazy afer we broke up. Maybe it was because of the last relationship she was in. I have a feeling shes dealing with a deep conflict within herself: she dated this guy for 3 years who was awful, but then she meets someone who supposidly "made her realize what she wanted in a relationship" and the relationship lasts 5 months. She always had a complex about "being like the ther girls" who drop good guys--now she did it herself. She even said there ws no reason she wouldn't want to be with me, she never said I did anything wrong. She was actually overly thankful towards me to the point that it didn't seem genuine and because of guilt.

1 hour ago, Rae1991 said:

you need to disabuse yourself from the notion that they owe you closure, apologies, friendship or reconciliatio

I'll keep this in mind. I just honestly can't wrap my head around this behaviour. She has already apologized for me "being put in the middle of all this" and she wanted friendship right after the break up, so I'm thankful for that at least. But the closure aspect I don't think I will ever get. You re right, that closure will only come fromy myself.

There's definitely a lot of ways to look at, and that sounds like a good way to see it.