What Do You Do When Feelings Of Guilt Won't Go?

[MariahC]

So sorry to bother you all. I was wondering if anyone knows what to do when feelings of guilt (regarding the death of a loved one) won't go? This is an issue which seems to crop up a lot on this site and is something that I am also really struggling with. [My story is here: http://hovforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3007]

I've been seeing a counselor about this (for the last fortnight) because I keep on blaming myself for my dad's death. Keep thinking that if I'd gotten him to one particular hospital that specializes in cancer (and is one of the best), he would still be with us. Finding myself constantly looking up information on the (rare) disease he had, including medical research papers on the Internet.

Not sure why I feel this way, when my brother doesn't. He's satisfied that we did everything we could and that it was out of our hands. I just keep thinking back to January of this year and what I could have done differently. My family doctor reviewed my dad's medical notes - including the communication between the two hospitals treating him - and she told me that I was not to blame and that getting him to another hospital would only have given him a couple of months extra. For some reason, I don't seem to be able to accept this for a sustained period of time. The feelings just keep on coming back and when they do, they cause such deep pain and anxiety that I find it difficult to breathe and can't get on with things. Today is one of those occasions.

My dad had been referred to a hospital which specializes in cancers that begin in the skin. He was having fortnightly treatments which seemed to improve his skin greatly, but then he became ill end of Oct 2007 with Sepsis. The local hospital where he was an in-patient treated the Sepsis and then referred him to the hospital where he'd been having the fortnightly treatments earlier in the year. We all thought 'great' he'll get the treatment he needs there, but three weeks later they discharged him. He was at home for only 10 days when he fell ill again (Dec 23) with a urinary tract infection and was again admitted to the local hospital. They'd decided to treat him with a new type of treatment, (because apparently the disease had spread to his stomach) but this seemed to further weaken his immune system making him susceptible to infections. He then took a turn for the worse and died a few weeks later.

I was hoping that the initial feelings of guilt and blame would have gone by now, as I've been told that these feelings are normal during grief, but it just seems to be getting worse. I constantly wish I could go back in time. There doesn't seem to be any let-up at all. It's the first thing I think about in the morning and the last thing at night. Just miss him so much. My thinking that this could have been prevented is unbearable.

What do you do when the feelings of guilt won't go?

How do you get yourself to live in the present rather than constantly looking back?

[leeann]

Mariah

What do you do when the feelings of guilt won't go?

I just chalk it up to part of the grieving process at this point. Just another thing that happens when we lose someone. Literally part of grief itself.

I find the less I worry or about grief itself.. and the less I judge my feelings... the better I do. I found judging myself and my feelings to actually stunt my progression through this process. It's almost a distraction away from forward progression for me. So I think less and try to feel more, even though initially that is more painful than judging myself. But I found I can fairly easily distract myself away from moving forward when I get hung up on "How I am doing" grief instead of just feeling it and expressing it.

So I have to be pretty diligent about what thoughts are going through my head. If I hear those negative type thoughts of "What if's" I try to replace them with the positive self talk of "I did the best I could and they love me and will always." That allows me to move forward.

leeann

[MartyT]

Mariah, dear ~

I'm posting this again, in hopes that it will help:

Posted by: MartyT Dec 29 2003, @ 07:24 AM in Loss of a Parent or Grandparent: Why Do I Feel So Guilty?

Dear Friends,

Because guilt is one of the most common reactions in grief, I want to share with you (and with all our other visitors) the following, which appears on pp. 27-29 in Finding Your Way through Grief: A Guide for the First Year (the book I wrote for Hospice of the Valley):

Guilt

Even if there is no basis for it, we often feel guilty for what we did or didn’t do, said or failed to say when our loved one was alive.

Guilt is a normal response to the perception that we’ve somehow failed in our duties and obligations or that we’ve done something wrong. It generates a whole mixture of feelings including doubt, shame, inadequacy, insecurity, failure, unworthiness, self judgment and blame, anxiety and fear of punishment.

When your loved one’s terminal illness was finally diagnosed, you may feel guilty that you hadn’t noticed symptoms sooner, waited too long to seek treatment or didn’t do enough to comfort him or her. If death came suddenly or unexpectedly, you may feel guilty for not being present when it happened. If it came after a long, lingering illness, you may feel guilty for feeling relieved that your loved one’s suffering is over and you’re now free from the burden of worry and care. You may feel guilty that you are the one who survived, or uncomfortable that you received an insurance settlement or inheritance following the death of your loved one. If you’re a religious person, you may feel guilty that you feel so angry at God.

Unfortunately, guilt is a natural and common component of grief. When someone you love dies, it’s only human to search for an explanation, to look at what you did or did not do, to dwell on the what if’s and if only’s. You agonize and tell yourself, “If only I’d done something differently, this never would’ve happened.” Sometimes, though, there simply isn’t anything you could’ve done differently. When your loved one’s illness or death occurred, chances are that whatever happened beforehand was not intentional on your part. Given the stress you were under then and how exhausted you may have been, you were doing the best you could. Given the information available to you at the time, you were doing what you normally would have done.

Harsh as it may seem, consider that even if you had done things differently, your loved one still could have died in some other way at some other time! Sometimes we act as if we can control the random hazards of existence, even when we know that death is a fact of life.

Guilt is driven by our own personal beliefs and expectations, and dealing with it requires that we examine what we think we did wrong, face it and evaluate it as objectively as possible. For example, what did you expect of yourself that you did not live up to? Were your expectations unrealistic? If they were, then you need to let go of them. Since you did all that you were capable of doing at the time, there simply is no basis for your guilt, and you need to let go of that as well.

Nevertheless, if after careful examination of the facts you find that your expectations of yourself are legitimate and you still did not live up to them, it’s important to face and take responsibility for what you believe you could’ve done differently. Healthy guilt allows us to own up to and learn from our mistakes. It gives us a chance to make amends, to do things differently next time, to come to a better understanding of ourselves, to forgive ourselves and move on.

Suggestions for Coping with Guilt

∙ Identify what it is that you feel guilty about. Resist the urge to keep such thoughts and feelings to yourself like so many deep, dark secrets. Bring them out into the open where they can be examined. Share them with a trusted friend or counselor, who can view your thoughts and feelings more objectively, and challenge what may be irrational or illogical.

∙ Listen to the messages you give yourself (the should have’s, could have’s and if only’s), and realize the past is something you can do absolutely nothing about.

∙ When guilty thoughts come to mind, disrupt them by telling yourself to stop thinking such thoughts. Say “STOP!” firmly, and out loud if you need to.

∙ Live the next day or next week of your life as if you were guilt-free, knowing you can return to your guilt feelings any time you wish. Pick a start time, and stop yourself whenever you make any guilt-related statements.

∙ Write down your guilt-related statements, set a date, and pledge that from that day forward you won’t say them to yourself anymore. Post them and read them every day.

∙ If you are troubled by feeling relieved that your loved one’s suffering has ended, know that a heavy burden has been lifted from your shoulders; you have been released from an emotionally exhausting and physically draining experience, and to feel relieved is certainly understandable.

∙ If you believe in God or a higher power, consider what He or She has to say about forgiveness.

∙ Participate in a support group — it’s a powerful way to obtain forgiveness and absolution from others.

- Be your own best friend. What would you have said to your best friend if this had happened to that person? Can you say the same to yourself?

∙ Remember the good things you did in your relationship with your loved one and all the loving care you gave. Focus on the positive aspects: what you learned from each other, what you did together that brought you joy, laughter and excitement. Write those things down, hold onto them and read them whenever you need to.

∙ Ask what you expected of yourself that you didn’t live up to. How is it that you didn’t? What were the circumstances at the time? What have you learned from this that you’ll do differently next time?

∙ What can you do to make amends? Find a way to genuinely apologize to your loved one’s spirit and ask for forgiveness.

∙ Have a visit with your loved one. Say aloud or in your mind whatever you didn’t get to say while your loved one was still living. Be as honest as you can be.

∙ Have your loved one write a letter to you. What would this person say to you about the guilt and sadness you’ve been carrying around?

∙ Ask what it would take for you to forgive yourself. Can you begin doing it? Say out loud to yourself, “I forgive you.” Say it several times a day.

∙ Remember that no one else can absolve your feelings of guilt— only you can do so, through the process of intentionally forgiving yourself.

∙ When you’ve consciously learned all you can learn from this situation, and when you’ve made any amends you consider necessary, then it’s time to let go of your guilt, to forgive yourself, and to move on.

∙ Channel the energy of your guilt into a worthwhile project. Do good deeds in your loved one’s honor.

Wishing you peace and healing,

Marty T

[MariahC]

leeann, thank you so much for replying. You always give such brilliant advice. I read your reply yesterday to Matthew (on his feelings of guilt) which also made a lot of sense.

Marty, thank you very much. The extract on guilt that you posted from your book is very helpful. I guess I'm a little surprized by the intensity of the the guilt I'm feeling. The pain of the loss is so great that I'm beating myself up thinking that we need not be going through this if things had been done differently. I've convinced myself that this hospital would have made a difference.

The rational side of me reminds me that he'd lost a lot of weight and it wasn't like him to not have any appetite, as he loved his food. He must have been very ill to have been like that. Perhaps, even if he'd got to that hospital maybe they wouldn't have been able to do anything...(trying to convince myself of this).

However, the rational side only seems to exist for a short time before it gives way to the negative thoughts again. These thoughts really got me so worked up yesterday, that I couldn't breathe and had to go sit outside for 30 minutes to calm down. Am really worried that if these thoughts won't go I'm going to make myself physically or mentally ill.

I will try some of the excellent suggestions you've made under 'Coping with guilt'. Here's hoping that this will stop the negative thoughts once and for all. Things simply cannot go on like this, my muscles are really tight and am hyperventilating most of the time.

[leeann]

However, the rational side only seems to exist for a short time before it gives way to the negative thoughts again. These thoughts really got me so worked up yesterday, that I couldn't breathe and had to go sit outside for 30 minutes to calm down. Am really worried that if these thoughts won't go I'm going to make myself physically or mentally ill.

I find replacing those negative thoughts with a positive one each time they crop up and as soon as possible helps me tremendously. Doing this ahead of time.. like planning for those negative thoughts when I'm not feeling overly emotional makes it easier for me to just 'grab' a positive response when I need it. WE are in control of our thoughts. We have the power to change them. Not vice versa. Negative thoughts have exactly the power WE give them.

If we choose not to give them any.. then they don't have any power. That is within our control.

I also have found that sometimes it helps me to separate the facts from the emotions. What are the facts? What is true? Being brutally honest with myself by looking at just the facts helps put things into perspective.

But the bottom line to me during their illnesses, dying & deaths was...

"I'm not in control." Something bigger than me is in control.

I don't possess "power" to change anything or anyone but myself. Treatment decisions for my loved ones were theirs to make.. not mine.

My "job" was to just love them and help them any way I could. But I had no real control over treatment and for sure, no control over their respective diseases.

When I was honest with myself, I had trouble even asking myself what I would have done differently because.. simply put, I wasn't the person that should have been making decisions for them. Those decisions were theirs and their Doc's. Not mine. Their illnesses and deaths were all about them.. not me. I'll have my turn someday.. but I really felt their illnesses, dying, and their eventual deaths were ALL about them. All I had to do really?? was love them and support them as best I could. And when I asked myself if I had honestly done that... I could say "Yes I did"... I did the very best I could.

It wasn't about me.. it was all about loving them through it all.

leeann

[STARKISS]

Hi MariahC,

Thank you for bringing this topic up, I too have problems with guilt... I think the information that Marty posted is great and helped me out alot... Guilt is a big part of grief and it is natural to feel it while you are grieving... I hope this helps Take care Shelley

[MariahC]

Thanks leeann.

I find replacing those negative thoughts with a positive one each time they crop up and as soon as possible helps me tremendously. Doing this ahead of time.. like planning for those negative thoughts when I'm not feeling overly emotional makes it easier for me to just 'grab' a positive response when I need it. WE are in control of our thoughts. We have the power to change them. Not vice versa. Negative thoughts have exactly the power WE give them.

If we choose not to give them any.. then they don't have any power. That is within our control.

This is an excellent suggestion, I will try this. It's so difficult though, once I get sucked into that way of thinking it's so hard to turn things around. I can't always control the negative thoughts, perhaps that will come in time. Things are still so raw.

But the bottom line to me during their illnesses, dying & deaths was...

"I'm not in control." Something bigger than me is in control.

I don't possess "power" to change anything or anyone but myself. Treatment decisions for my loved ones were theirs to make.. not mine.

My "job" was to just love them and help them any way I could. But I had no real control over treatment and for sure, no control over their respective diseases.

When I was honest with myself, I had trouble even asking myself what I would have done differently because.. simply put, I wasn't the person that should have been making decisions for them. Those decisions were theirs and their Doc's. Not mine. Their illnesses and deaths were all about them.. not me. I'll have my turn someday.. but I really felt their illnesses, dying, and their eventual deaths were ALL about them. All I had to do really?? was love them and support them as best I could. And when I asked myself if I had honestly done that... I could say "Yes I did"... I did the very best I could.

It wasn't about me.. it was all about loving them through it all.

I know I was there for him, loved him and supported him, but still there are times when I think that there's more we should have done. What you've described above about not being the person that should have been making decisions for them: I accept to some extent, but I guess that the circumstances surrounding what happened is haunting me. Feelings of having let him down. My brother doesn't feel like this, which is maybe why I'm seeing a counselor and he is not.

Been trying to make myself believe that even if things had been different and he'd gone to that other hospital - would the outcome have been positive? I guess that there's no way of knowing this for sure.

Had a slightly better day yesterday after Wednesday's meltdown. Decided not to sit in my office at lunchtime, so I went over to visit a friend who works in the building nearby. Going on previous trends of good day - bad day - good day - I wonder if today will be another meltdown day.

[MariahC]

Hi MariahC,

Thank you for bringing this topic up, I too have problems with guilt... I think the information that Marty posted is great and helped me out alot... Guilt is a big part of grief and it is natural to feel it while you are grieving... I hope this helps Take care Shelley

I'm glad Marty's information was of help to you. Guilt seems to appear a lot on this site. I think it's important to get through these feelings as they tend to make our grief even more painful. I'm trying to get through it and am trying to understand why these feelings keep returning following periods of feeling better.

There are times when I don't think I'm going to make it, which is terrifying. Seeing a counselor has helped somewhat, but there's a long way to go.

[leeann]

Mariah,

You will make it. Just keep employing the things Marty listed there and seeing your counselor. You will be able to let this go in time.

leeann

[MariahC]

Mariah,

You will make it. Just keep employing the things Marty listed there and seeing your counselor. You will be able to let this go in time.

leeann

Thanks leeann. I really hope so, as these feelings just make things 100 times worse.

I hate the feelings of helplessness. When he was transferred from the local hospital to the specialist one end of Nov 2007, I saw it as the answer to my prayers. Now looking back they really didn't do anything except discharge him with a crib sheet of pills. There are so many "WHY's" that I want answers to.

What happened has made me feel as though I should have been doing the hospital doctors' jobs for them. Suggesting treatments etc. Except, I'm not a doctor and we put our faith in the doctors to treat our loved ones. I am so angry right now. Angry with myself, angry with the doctors, angry with God...

The feelings of desperation, anxiety and pain will stay with me forever.

It's strange how life can give you a sucker punch when you least expect it. I remember this time last year, pretty much to the day. We were so hopeful, as his condition had improved greatly. We could never have imagined that just one year later we would be going through this.

Around other people I feel under pressure to 'be ok and normal'. People have said that I'm really quiet. People who know what's happened (including my family) keep asking me "What's up? Why are you upset?" which is infuriating at times. What do they think is wrong. My brother on the other hand seems able to (truly) laugh, socialize and live. S'pose he's able to compartmentalize his grief.

Just missing him so much. Nothing else in life seems to matter right now. Just going through the motions at the moment, just trying to hang in there. My brother and I have been called to a meeting by my mother's MH case worker next week. They want to take her permanently. My brother wants them to take her as he sees her as a bit of a nuisance. I on the other hand, am not sure. Everything familiar seems to be going away...

Slept for 17 hours straight from last Friday night through to Saturday afternoon! I guess we don't realise how much all of this takes it out of us.

[leeann]

Mariah,

Feelings of helplessness.... yup. Not real comfortable. I had those more when I first found out my Dad had cancer. But I knew.. for him?? this was the end. He had so many other health issues cooking on different burners simultaneously.. that the cancer was gonna put the whole stove out. And I also sensed .. correctly.. he was ready to go. I may not have been ready for him to go.. but.. again.. it wasn't about me then.

So.. I had to let the helplessness go. Focus on what I could do to help make his time remaining here as good as it could be.

For my other significant death that was from cancer.. He was younger and not ready to go yet. This was tougher in a way because of that. This guy was like a second Dad for me.

Yet the helplessness was again brief for me because I just got focused on trying to fill whatever needs he had as best I could. I got busy helping him weather the storm of illness & treatment and then, when the time came.. I helped him let go and die.

Figured, yeah it was a tough thing for me to do.. very tough. But.. ya know.. he had loved me so well.. I wanted to do it.

I figured I would have plenty of time after they were gone to focus on my grief. But in the moments of their dying.. I was so focused on them.

I stole moments away from them to cry. I screamed in the car on the way home from seeing them "NOOOOOOOOOO! I'm not ready yet!!" And I guess it helped to get that out of me so I could again re-focus on them.. til their time came.

There are so many "WHY's" that I want answers to.

I have learned that, sometimes, the "Why's?" have no real answer. And it isn't productive for me to rehash any treatment choices or decisions.

That is in the past.. can't do anything about it. All I can do is express emotions from the past that I had to put off expressing until after they passed. But that's it. The past is gone and is what it is.

I am so angry right now. Angry with myself, angry with the doctors, angry with God...

Yup, anger is part of it... expressing your anger healthfully is a good thing. I usually end up expressing it via tears... this way I am less likely to take it out on my poor hub or kids. Course taking a sledge hammer to something that needs sledge hammering.. is good too. Or I express it by doing "extreme" vacuuming... or "power" lawn mowing... or "super" scrubbing of anything needing scrubbing.

Funny though.. I didn't seem to get angry "at" anyone. I was just mad.. period. I didn't put it on anyone or myself.... just felt mad... and expressed it. Knew this was just part of grief.

The feelings of desperation, anxiety and pain will stay with me forever.

Well.. I hope, in time, that it is only the memory of those feelings that you will recall.

It's strange how life can give you a sucker punch when you least expect it.

To me.. at this point.. nope.. not strange anymore. I have come to a different perspective of life. I get challenges thrown in front of me on my life's journey, for a reason. Life is full of loads of challenges that we don't ever imagine happening to us like illness, deaths, accidents, injuries, divorces, job changes... etc but they do indeed happen to us. That's just life.

(And I am not special... everyone gets challenges thrown in front of them.)

However.. I have learned when those challenges come along.. to keep my eyes, mind and heart sharp... for I am about to learn something I must need to learn.

Mariah I know you miss Dad alot. The missing of my loved ones will always be.. but the intensity has dropped off a bit over time. Will I cry about missing them for the rest of my life from time to time... yeah.... probably.. and... so what? That's ok.. it is ok to have those feelings IMO. Missing and crying about it doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong with me.. Just means I was loved well.

Nothing else in life seems to matter right now.

Yeah in the beginning it feels that way for sure. But I bet you find this will pass too. Because, you know, of course, that other things in your life do matter. Just right now, they pale in comparison to this loss. But I found that my perspective balanced that back out again in time.

I bet you will find that too.

I hope all goes well with your meeting about Mom next week. But I might caution you to be careful about how much you are up for right now as far as her care is concerned. Be honest with yourself about how much you can healthfully do for her at the moment. Hear ALL the options and ask any questions you may have while considering your options. Use that MH worker as a resource for you all three of you. As the decisions made effect all three of you. The MH worker can help you greatly with your options and choices. Don't be afraid to say.. "Can we think about it all and get back to you?"

And then take your time in discussions with your brother before you make any decisions.

Keep us posted.

((((hugs))))

leeann

[MariahC]

Feelings of helplessness.... yup. Not real comfortable. I had those more when I first found out my Dad had cancer. But I knew.. for him?? this was the end. He had so many other health issues cooking on different burners simultaneously.. that the cancer was gonna put the whole stove out. And I also sensed .. correctly.. he was ready to go.

I didn't really think that my dad's condition would kill him. After it presented it looked like Eczema so we didn't worry too much initially, but gradually his skin and symptoms got quite bad, but then he improved dramatically in early 2007. He was 65 when the symptoms first appeared, but he was a young 65. Hardly a grey hair and walking freely without a walking stick. Independent and self-sufficient. He was not ready to go. Recalling the conversations I had with him early this year break my heart. We had so many plans.

leeann QUOTE

For my other significant death that was from cancer.. He was younger and not ready to go yet. This was tougher in a way because of that. This guy was like a second Dad for me...Figured, yeah it was a tough thing for me to do.. very tough. But.. ya know.. he had loved me so well.. I wanted to do it.

Yes, you're right, it is very tough. No matter how tough though it's something we do for our loved ones. My brother and I, we were literally living at the hospital the last week. Sure it was tough, but there's no way we could have been anywhere else.

leeann QUOTE

I have learned that, sometimes, the "Why's?" have no real answer. And it isn't productive for me to rehash any treatment choices or decisions.

That is in the past.. can't do anything about it. All I can do is express emotions from the past that I had to put off expressing until after they passed. But that's it. The past is gone and is what it is.

I know and that's what everyone keeps telling me, but I can't stop looking back. I feel responsible for what happened and it's tearing me up. My family doctor, who reviewed my dad's medical notes, has told me I'm not to blame and that it wouldn't have made a difference as the cancer had spread to his stomach. Why can't I accept this? As the younger sister (I'm 4 years younger than my brother) why is the blame and responsibility on my shoulders? Why isn't my brother also feeling like this (though I'm glad that he isn't)?

leeann QUOTE

Yup, anger is part of it... expressing your anger healthfully is a good thing. I usually end up expressing it via tears... Funny though.. I didn't seem to get angry "at" anyone. I was just mad.. period. I didn't put it on anyone or myself.... just felt mad... and expressed it. Knew this was just part of grief.

Me too. I express mine through tears. I'm mainly angry that not only is there the loss to deal with, but also the feelings of guilt. It is so cruel feeling this way.

leeann QUOTE

Mariah I know you miss Dad alot. The missing of my loved ones will always be.. but the intensity has dropped off a bit over time...

Yes, I do miss him so much. In some ways he was the glue that held the family together. Now he's gone it's all falling apart. If they take my mother then when my brother goes to stay with his girlfriend I'll be on my own in the house that used to be home to four people.

leeann QUOTE

Yeah in the beginning it feels that way for sure. But I bet you find this will pass too. Because, you know, of course, that other things in your life do matter. Just right now, they pale in comparison to this loss. But I found that my perspective balanced that back out again in time.

I bet you will find that too.

The goings on at work don't matter at all to me. When asked my opinion on things I have to pretend to be interested, pretend it matters when really I couldn't care less at the moment. It's just not important right now.

leeann QUOTE

I hope all goes well with your meeting about Mom next week. But I might caution you to be careful about how much you are up for right now as far as her care is concerned. Be honest with yourself about how much you can healthfully do for her at the moment. Hear ALL the options and ask any questions you may have while considering your options. Use that MH worker as a resource for you all three of you. As the decisions made effect all three of you. The MH worker can help you greatly with your options and choices. Don't be afraid to say.. "Can we think about it all and get back to you?"

And then take your time in discussions with your brother before you make any decisions.

Thanks leeann. My counselor said the same thing. He said that we should take our time and not make any rash decisions.

[leeann]

Why can't I accept this? As the younger sister (I'm 4 years younger than my brother) why is the blame and responsibility on my shoulders?

I dunno.. maybe because you are putting it there??

Something to think about, maybe??

No one else is putting there.

It simply isn't true that you are to blame or are responsible. And others, with clear knowledge of the situation, have told you as much.

Why not believe them?

I find if I keep looking back... I can't get to moving forward.

((((Mariah))))

leeann

[MariahC]

leeann QUOTE

"I dunno.. maybe because you are putting it there?? Something to think about, maybe??"

I talked about this with my counselor. We came to the understanding that it's because my family have always relied on me a lot. If anyone needs help with anything or advice they always come to me. In my family I'm kind of the first person to get a degree. So, I guess, without realizing it I've taken on the responsibility for everything. Whenever, we were at the hospital it would be me asking all the questions. Guess I never really thought about it until recently - just used to do it.

QUOTE

"No one else is putting there".

Yes, that's true. Guess it's been ingrained in me to think that it's up to me to fix everything. The feelings came to the fore about 6 weeks ago. The rational side says that there's only so much you can do - we're not doctors afterall. Perhaps I have an unreasonable expectation of myself, I dunno.

QUOTE

"It simply isn't true that you are to blame or are responsible. And others, with clear knowledge of the situation, have told you as much.

Why not believe them?

Dunno, I guess that I can't get my head around how we find ourselves in this position. It all just spiralled out of control...just cannot fathom how we've got to where we are now. Keep going over it again and again and again. How'd he go from doing so well to so ill. I guess there was a point where the docs should have realised that the treatment wasn't working as well as before and tried other treatments, but they didn't. Guess I'm putting the responsibility for that on myself. When he'd been transferred to the specialist hospital we thought they'd got his condition under control. Knowing what we know now guess we would have got him taken somewhere else.

QUOTE

"I find if I keep looking back... I can't get to moving forward".

Not ready to move forward yet, can't, not until these feelings are resolved, not while the tears are there everyday, not while everything is such a mess. Am stuck in limbo, guess like a lot of others on this site. Never knew it could hurt this bad.

leeann - thanks so much for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated. It's so difficult in everyday life to talk about it with other people, as they feel uncomfortable and change the subject or get upset. It really helps to be able to post here.

[leeann]

You'll get there Mariah.. just keep working at it.

And one day you will be ready to move forward.. really.. you will.

In the meantime.. go easy on yourself.

(((((Mariah)))))

leeann

[KathyG]

My guilt is a different kind. I was married twice. My first marriage lasted 23 years (only about 5 of which could be called happy.) My second husband, Bill, was the love of my life, but I got to spend only 11 years 4 months, and 11 days with him; each day better than the next.

So where does the guilt come in? I can't stop wishing that if one of my husbands had to die, it had been spouse #1. When my first marriage ended in divorce, I felt like I had been let out of jail. With Bill gone, it feels like being in solitary confinement on Death Row.

[MariahC]

It must feel like an injustice, that you had your beloved second husband for a shorter time than your first. I can understand you're thinking this way.

Although, I haven't lost a husband, I can identify with what you say about being in solitary confinement on Death Row. Every minute, hour and day is difficult and other people who haven't experienced a loss are oblivious to how it affects everything. Try not to feel guilty about feeling the way that you do - it sounds like a totally normal reaction. The mind makes us think like this sometimes.

[MariahC]

Well the meeting about my mother (who has MH issues) is coming up just after this weekend. The meeting has been called to discuss whether my mother should be removed from the home and taken to supervised accommodation. My brother told me yesterday that his girlfriend would like to attend it too. I've nothing against her, but I told my brother that the meeting was to be attended by those invited by letter only.

I don't want anyone else to be there giving their opinions, as at the end of the day whatever decision we make will affect my mother, brother and I. Does this sound reasonable?

Bit worried too that she might take over the meeting and influence my brother's opinions. It's not her mother so I can't understand why she wants to be there. I'm also taking into account that I'm not my usual strong self, am a bit vulnerable right now - so don't really want to have to argue my point of view with someone not directly affected by what is decided.

[leeann]

Mariah,

Maybe she would like to attend just as a support to your brother? I don't know. Did you ask him why she wants to attend? Expressing the worries/concerns you have about her attending the meeting to your brother might help.

leeann

[MariahC]

Mariah,

Maybe she would like to attend just as a support to your brother? I don't know. Did you ask him why she wants to attend? Expressing the worries/concerns you have about her attending the meeting to your brother might help.

leeann

Last night I was thinking about the supporting my brother reason. Dunno, I suppose I'm worried about how the meeting might go. I want both of our views to be taken into account equally and am worried that we could have 2 to 1 thing going on during the meeting. It's such an important decision that I wanna make sure we make the right one and an informed one without any outside influence.

leeann - How are you doing today? I've been thinking of you this week, wondering how you're doing?

[leeann]

Yup you are right it is an important decision.

If the MH worker is recommending that your Mom be placed at a supervised location... that worker has an awfully good reason for suggesting this. (I have a family member who is a MH professional.)

Spots in these places are hard to come by here where I live. And keeping folks/clients in their own homes is usually a top priority of course as many clients do much better in their own homes.

However... if the client is in serious need of placement in their professional opinion... MH workers will move heaven and earth to find a slot.

Suggestions for out of home placements aren't done lightly. So the fact that they are recommending this to you and your brother is something noteworthy and something I would take into serious consideration.

Just a thought.. but communication is key with these kind of important familial decisions.. so why not have a chat with your brother about all of this before the meeting.

If your Mom ultimately ends up in this supervised living arrangement.. yes.. everything will have changed for you in a short time. Not only have you lost your Dad but now your Mother will no longer be in the house as well. That's a lot of change and I don't doubt that you feel daunted by this... I think anyone would.

But try to think about what is best for Mom right now and what limitations you and your brother may have regarding taking care of her. Be brutally honest.

The changes that may occur in your life if she is placed are large for you. However.. Changes we can always adjust to in time.

Think about how you would feel if something happened with Mom in the house when you couldn't be there to supervise. And having to be available as a care taker 24/7 is a huge burden for anyone.

So weigh all of this out and keep the lines of communication open between you and your brother. I'm sure you will arrive at the best decision for all of you.

leeann

PS thanks for asking.. but well.. I'll tell ya.. I've had better weeks.

[MariahC]

Thanks leeann. My counselor also suggested many of the things you've mentioned.

I do want what's best for my mother and if living in supervised accommodation is what's best for her then I will support it. I'm kind of undecided on the issue at the moment, so I will listen to the MH worker's recommendations and what my brother thinks.

Your suggestion that my brother and I have a discussion before the meeting is a good one. My counselor also suggested this. We're going to discuss it together over the weekend.

Yes, it will be a big change, but we have to do what is best for our mother's welfare. Perhaps my brother and I can listen to what is discussed but not make any final decisions on the day of the meeting. Hopefully, they'll let us take the recommendations & info away and then make an informed and mutual decision.

I'm sorry to hear that you're having a tough time of it. These 'special days' can bring all the pain and emotion to the fore like nothing else. Thinking of you on Sunday.

(((Hugs))) M.

[leeann]

Mariah,

Sounds like you have a good plan for dealing with this. Yes.. most definitely see if a final decision can be done after the meeting and not during the meeting, once you two have had a chance to discuss their ideas. Sometimes space availability may preclude that, but ask them for at least 24 hours. That they should be able to accomodate.

Yeah my body is sabotaging me this week too on top of the emotional fallout from Mother's Day.

All I can think is... better days are coming for us, right?

I'll be holding you and all of the people here close in my heart & thoughts on Sunday. It does help me to know that I won't be struggling through on my own. Hope you and your bro have a good conversations this weekend and that your Mom can somehow enjoy Mother's Day a bit too.

leeann

[leeann]

Mariah was thinking of you today and hoping the meeting went well for all of you.

leeann

[MariahC]

Thanks leeann.

The meeting, well it was kind of difficult at first. The building where it was to take place was next door to the building where my dad passed away. I knew it was going to be difficult for us going back there, as I've always turned my head away whenever I've had to go past the hospital over these last two months. Legs turned to concrete walking up the driveway that we had walked up so many times before. It seemed really odd being there but not going to see my dad. My brother took my arm and walked me up there...don't think I could have done it alone.

The MH careworker arrived and we were shown to a waiting room. Unfortunately started feeling really tearful which I had to suppress in order to get through the meeting. We were then taken to the room where four other people, 3 doctors and the MH careworker were sitting. They raised a number of options. My brother was really talkative, which was good as I wasn't really feeling up to it at the beginning.

Supervised accommodation didn't sound too bad the problem is whether my mother will go for it. She seems insistent on living at home and sees supervised accommodation as a nursing home for old people. The MH careworker is going get further information on the options. We stressed that if she is moved to supervised accommodation we don't want her to be too far away so we can visit her. The caseworker then visited us at home that afternoon. She asked what we thought about the meeting and said that I was very quiet - I just said that it was difficult for us being back there again.

I had a call this week from a family member from my mother's side of the family. We're kind of estranged in that we don't hear from them often. I told her what had happened and she asked what was happening with my mother regarding her care now as she put it, I quote "my dad was out of the picture". I didn't let on during the call, but I found the conversation really upsetting which was a shame as I'd been feeling much better (at last) before the call. I guess when we're feeling 'UP' there's something just waiting to knock us straight back down again.

She started asking for details about it, but I stressed that I couldn't really go into it as my mother was in the house and we're only looking at the options at this stage. She said that supervised accommodation wouldn't be good for her and that we should get a carer to come to the home to look after her etc. I said that my brother, myself and the care worker will consider all the options and check them out ourselves before deciding. Well unbeknown to me, my mother had her ear to the door and was eavesdropping on part of the conversation and she got really worked up and started shouting. After we hung up it took two hours for her to calm down. By now I was just a tearful mess. The phone then went crazy ringing every minute. The caller had rung my mother's eldest daughter (my half-sister) who lives 5,000 miles away. She is kind of estranged from my mother, as mother had left her in the care of other family members because she'd given birth to her when she was very young. I'd put the answering machine on which took her message.

I haven't yet had the strength to call her back, as it's been a very difficult few days with me being a crying mess..the regret and feelings of guilt are back big time. From previous conversations I can guess what she's going to say. She'll say you can't put our mother in a home, YOU should look after her etc. Well, as my brother and I are the ones who have been involved with looking after our mother all these years and are the ones who've had to make some sacrifices, WE (along with the careworker) will decide. I know that probably sounds a bit harsh, but we are the ones who are seeing and dealing with the situation every day, so we don't think it's fair that those that aren't directly affected by it are trying to make us feel guilty.