My Story

[Pollara]

That's good to hear. So you will probably enjoy your dinner

[DML]

I think she actually forgot.. strange

[DML]

Well she didnt forget , it seems miscommunication.. again. Alot of times she thinks that we have discussed something but in actuality we have not. There have been several occasions where we will touch on a subject but I think in her head she thinks we have made final plans. I wonder if this is part of PTSD? She was not happy about me calling the hospitals , so note to self not to mention that again. She said I need to stop over reacting. I then reminded her that her father laid for three days on the floor after suffering a stroke, she cut me some slack on that thankfully.

She is definately stressed out right now and tired, so I did not pressure her for a make up dinner. I can tell aready that this week will be hard as I don t believe I will hear much from her.

My brother and his wife have seperated recently and she keeps saying strange things like oh they will get back together , everyone does aftter the first time seperating. The strangest thing she says though is how hard it must be for both my brother and his wife when they are together now ( my brother moved out but still goes to help with yard work etc ) . I always think well what about me? Does she not think its hard for me to be around her? Does she REALLY think I have gone into friend mode?

SIGH today is a bad day. I can feel myself just wanting to call in sick and lay on the couch watching tv.

[kayc]

I hope it gets better...

[Pollara]

Well this is first hand experience and nothing more and not to rely on this. I have a friend where in the past she broke up with a guy and he was only seeing him as a friend. She told him all her problems and at some point she even started to tell him all her love problems related to other guys. Only when the guy told her that he was going to date another girl she appreciate him and got back together. If it wasn't for her safety I will truly suggest you to cut contact. Because now she takes you as granted and that you will be around while she can do anything. Also my boyfriend's ex is like that. She could hung around or dated other guys but when my boyfriend appeared to date a girl she came back. But even if he had asked her to be together again (because he wasn't dating someone but it was on her mind) she told him not. But, when we started dating and she saw that for the first time, the granted boy actually moved on, she starting call him and asking him to be together. You cannot stay forever on the friendzone just to satisfy her ego and she cannot appreciate you if you are the granted one.

[kayc]

As I said before, we have to first respect ourselves before they will respect us...and sometimes by the time they reach that point, we no longer care.

[plum]

Hi DML, I've read ur story and I feel like ur story is way more complex and complicated then ours and I don't really think I have much to offer in terms of advice...

To me it sound like she has underlying psychiatric issues and I'm glad that she is getting the help that she needs. I think at this stage the most important priority would be for her to become mentally stable again. I doubt that she has the rigt frame of mind to consider anyone at the moment including herself.

I can't begin to imagine how u must be feeling, it must be so hurtful seeing someone u love acting in such a way. And I guess u have days where u think 'what about me?!' as u feel like no one is caring about how much ur hurting.

I think the best thing u can do for her would be to be her friend. She definitely isn't capable of being in a relationship, and I guess if u want her to get better u might just have to accept that she may friendzone u but I definitely don't think u should choose the other option of not being there for her.

I really hope that she gets all the help she can as her behavior is definitely not a normal grief response.... I cant believe that the hospital let her go after 'observing' her overnight. Actually I can as I'm in the medical field and I've been so many psychiatric illnesses get missed and undiagnosed.

In regards to the comment that no one can 'make her' get help, there are laws in place where u can schedule someone if u consider them to be a danger to others or themselves. (granted that ur a medical person) I understand that she has no thoughts of self harming or of ur animals currently but so many alarm bells ring for me as I read thru ur story. It def sounds like she needs more than therapy. I think she needs full psychiatric evaluation and management....

Anyway I wish u and her all the best..

[plum]

Ps btw I don't think u should be attributing her behavior to PTSD. Self harming and thoughts of hurting others is NOT a feature.

Just in regards to kayc's comment about self harming, lot of ppl ESP girls who have had traumatic abuse or experiences as a child develop something called borderline personally disorder. I would say majority of these cases are of girls that had history of sexual abuse.

Oh on final note, not to put anyone off side but I can't stress enough what Marty said. Psychiatrists are qualified medical practitioners who can diagnose manage and treat psychiatric illness. Psychologists are trained professionals who deal with the human psyche and behaviors through things like cognitive brain therapy.

No amount of counselling or therapy will help someone that has underlying psychiatric condition that may need medical treatment.

Pps DML, I hope I haven't offended u in any way ESP with ur bad experience with the local mental hospital as that was not my intention but I just didn't want u to think her behavior can just be put down to something like PTSD. I'm not trained in this field so I'm not saying that what I'm sayin is right but just wanted to offer another perspective.

[kayc]

Plum,

Speaking from experience (three times, different family members), it is extremely difficult to "make" someone get help. I have tried. Contacting doctors, mental health, attorneys, police, I have not found it to be that easy. It takes more than one family member to get someone committed, and usually family members don't want to cooperate or put themselves out there even if they know they need the help. In her case, she has no family. If I shared my experiences with you, you would probably have a hard time believing it.

I don't believe in ditching friends either, UNLESS they present a possible harm to myself or someone I love (including animals). I have to put my own safety and well being ahead of others. I know everyone disagrees with me, but I stand by that.

DML,

I'm sorry you're going through such a hard spot. This really is a difficult situation. Have you thought of getting professional help to help guide YOU through how to handle this? It would be easy to feel in over your head in navigating through this. Your love is commendable. How are you doing today?

[Pollara]

Ι agree. First of all, the family and the people near them are usually the last persons that believe that there is a problem. As with grief, people deny the fact that the other one might need mental treatment. I don't know if it is a mater of culture or what. I know two specific cases: the first one was a friend's mother. The woman had shown a lot of symptoms and she was even on the point talking to the walls. But they keep on saying that she was stressed due to her divorce and her brother's death. When she started screaming and took a knife in the kitchen they got her in the clinic. Another example not so hard was also the mother of another friend of mine, that she started feeling sick (although the doctors could not find anything physically wrong with her). She kept on saying that she is sick and she started taking whatever pill she found home. But still my friend and her brothers refused to believe that there was something wrong with her mental health until she started scratching herself because she felt that she had bacteria everywhere. So yes I understand KayC what you mean. It is very difficult for the closest ones to accept the fact. DLM I think that what KayC suggest is a good thought. Try to ask an expert how can you handle the situation. But don't focus on your relationship but on her problem.

[DML]

Ladies,

I should clarify that I have no idea if she is speaking with a professional. Our family Doctor wants her to see someone but I really have no idea if she is. The reason I said PTSD is because before I found this forum I was constantly searching for answers and how I could help her and PTSD kept showing up in the results. Also not only did she lose her father figure but there were 4 others in the span of 3 months, so it was like she was being sucker punched every time she turned around. She completely withdrew from me , started acting strangely etc.

As for sexual abuse , I believe she was somehow abused. She says no but I don t believe it.

Today has been a bad day, bouncing between hurt and anger. Part of me just wants to walk away when I think of how she treated me sometimes, and how she treats me now. One of my friends told me a quote and it was " The one in the relationship who matters most is the one who cares the least "

Then I remember what KayC said " we have to first respect ourselves before they will respect us...and sometimes by the time they reach that point, we no longer care."

On a side note I have been watching a dvd that is strangely comforting to me. Its a show from years back called Six Feet Under . I am sure some of you have seen it. A co worker loaned me the entire series and for some reason I found watching this show comforting. Its a dark type of show , so no happy families with endless money that I cannot relate to. Instead its a show about death and grieving and relationships and all the hurdles the characters go through. Check it out if you have the chance.

Finally I really cannot thank everyone enough for all the responses , and no your not offending me if you give me an opinion! If you do then I will mention it. But really if you are posting in a forum you have to expect opinions from each end of the spectrum!

Hugs to all!!

[plum]

I'm so glad that we have been of help to u,

And I'm sorry to hear that ur having a bad day..

Oh yes I know that drama!! It is rather dark but amusin at times!

I know what u mean about being torn about whether to just walk away. Ha my post is titled whether to stay or leave!! I still swing back and forwards several times a day still about this even after a month!! But I think the saving grace is to know how much u can take like kayc said.

The anger phase u feel will pass. I think me and pollara have both vented on here when we went thru that stage. I do still feel angry at him but not so much as I think I finally accepted it really isn't personal. Although in any way u look at it u can't help but feel that way!! I asked my guy outright a while ago 'why me?! Why ru just singling me out and ostracizing me?!!' But he himself didn't know. So obviously not intentional. Still hurts just as much thou!

I'm glad to hear that the show is making u feel better ?.

Big hugs back to u!

[DML]

I think Pollara mentioned that as females we tend to over analyze our situations. So today I m thinking that maybe the grief actually has nothing to do with it and she left me simply cuz she doesn t want too be with me . Bad bad day.

[kayc]

Sometimes we don't know what they've been through because they don't tell us and all we can read is the handwriting on the wall. Sometimes the signs tell us a lot. My last husband was cheating on me and I knew it...I didn't have "proof", I didn't need proof, I knew the signs, I'd been through it before. And sure enough, it turned out he was, when I filed the missing person's report, a couple of days later the police called, they'd found him living in our new motor home with his new young woman. You see, sometimes you just instinctively know something, without needing to be told, without them admitting it, without proof.

The situation is very different with your lady, but the principle can be the same, you can know, deep inside, what is going on with her, what she's been through, sometimes without being told, by her responses.

I don't think she left you cuz she doesn't want to be with you, I think it has a lot to do with the grief and perhaps some things she is going through. I think it has very little to do with you and a great deal more to do with HER. But that is something I think all of us have asked ourselves about our departing mate, in an attempt to understand...and yes, we do analyze, because we want answers and we haven't been getting them. We want to understand, make some sense of this.

I'm so sorry you're having a bad day.

[Pollara]

Oh KayC I think I will be like you in your age. I also believe the same. That everyone knows what is really happening but a lot of times ourselves want to protect us and even if we see the signs we ignore them or rationalize them or try to find another possible explanation in order to ignore them. For instance with my previous ex (not my ex but the one before him lol) I could see that we were really different characters but I kept on telling myself that opposites attract. Of course I knew it that this wasn't the case and our different worldviews would lead us to breaking up at some point but my subconscious chose to ignore this. In the end we broke up after a lot of fights and I only remember the bad things about him.

DML I believe that your girlfriend has been to a lot of problems, but I am also having the opinion that love don't last forever (although I want to find my soulmate that i will be forever in love with him etc). So maybe it is true that deep down she might get tired of your relationship. She love you as a friend and as a person, that is why it is so difficult from you to cut contact and she is clinging on you, but maybe the passion and the romance that she felt for you are not into her anymore. But passion and romance gradually evaporate through time and love is the thing that ties people together. Did she have any other serious relationship except you?

[kayc]

I disagree, Pollara...passion and romance doesn't evaporate through time with some loves...it didn't with my late husband and I. We had passion until the day he died, and I believe it's still there, just waiting for us to be together again. And we always had romance. It never waned.

I don't believe people tire in their relationship unless it's not all that it should be. Many times we "settle" for something that is less than what we'd hope for because we think that's all there is or can be. My George gave me an entirely different perspective on love. He was my soul mate. After he died, I knew there'd never be another anywhere near like him and I settled for what was...but it didn't come anywhere close to what we'd had. The potential often exists but that doesn't mean it'll be brought to fruition...it requires so much of BOTH partners to have it be its potential. And even though George and I both expended tremendous effort, it didn't FEEL like work, it was just what we wanted to do. Sadly, most people never realize such love in their lifetimes...it's something I would hope for everyone to experience.

I do think some people confuse the heady newness of a new relationship with passion and love...given about six months it'll wane, but it's not the same thing that George and I experienced because that never did.

[DML]

Yes, my partner did have a couple other long term relationships. Like KayC I believe there can be long lasting true love. Yes the passion may settle but I have met many couples who are in their later years who still walk hand in hand. No relationship is without its problems but I believe that as long as there is open communication then you will have a healthy relationship.

Also I dont see any reason why an opposites attract couple cannot have a successful relationship, each person brings something different. If we were both too much the same it would be kind of boring! Yes of course you will have similiar likes and dislikes ( music , books , movies , food etc ) thats usually what adds to the attraction.

[Pollara]

Well no DML I agree with that. You don't have to be copies. What I meant by opposites wasn't that we had different tastes rather than total opposite worldviews. For example I am very broadminded and independent as a person while he was the total opposite and he was opposed to the idea of independence in women. And these lead to continuous fighting. Of course I wouldn't care if someone listen different music or liked different movies or even if we had different characters. For example I am calm and he is loud. I don't mean such kind of opposites. But in my experience, you cannot be with someone that had total opposite worldviews.

Well maybe I cannot explain this very well, because in my language we have two different words for love when you meet someone and let's say you fell in love with and as the time pass you have a deeper tie which is also called love in English but it is a different word for us. But even KayC you regard that this kind of love when you are with someone and you are always in love with him is not the usual case. Could we refer to the first kind of love that there is always passion etc as sex chemistry? This sex chemistry usually lasts for about two years. I also have noticed this in my experience and in my friends. So when this happened, a deeper tie was developed. I don't have any problem with this deeper tie. But a lot of my friends didn't like this deeper bond and they wanted to return back to the previous stage. This is why I asked you if she had any serious previous relationships. Because if she doesn't she might not even aware of this fact and recognize it as boredom like my friends do.

[plum]

I agree with all u guys, but I do see where Pollara is coming from. I think my relationship has definitely changed over the years, and I think back to how it was when we were first together, and I would say the passion in the relationship has waned somewhat. Like all the lust and chemistry part maybe. But I guess I now have a different kind of love for him. I think the chemistry and passion can flunctuate in a relationship esp once it passes over few years like pollara said.

I've described my love for him like almost like a family kind of love. Like I would always love him and he said of the same. We do still have the chemistry. (well who knows now, haven't seen him for few months now) but we're definitely not like in the hot passionate kinda stage.

I'm comfortable with this and I believe this kind of stronger bond is what holds a long term r/s couples together rather than the passionate stage as that dies off after a while.

[kayc]

I see where she is coming from too, but it wasn't me and George's experience, so I know that deeper being in love is possible.

I also know what you mean, Pollara, about the opposite vs being alike. In every relationship, there will be some things you're the same on and some things you're different on. Of course, we wouldn't want clones of ourselves, that wouldn't be interesting or challenging. It's good to have someone that helps you broaden your perspective and grow as a person. It's also nice to have something else brought to the table. For instance, I was the stable realist and George was the dreamer and more spontaneous. I still miss him jumping out of bed and saying, "Come on, let's go to the coast!" Just as he appreciated my balance in making sure we got our chores done and bills paid. But there were other ways we were alike, like our outlook, our core values, we both enjoyed country music and a great cup of coffee. We enjoyed watching movies together but neither of us were couch potatoes. We enjoyed going for walks and drives, we both loved nature and animals. How could I love someone that didn't love the sound of rushing water or enjoy a sunset with me?

So it's important that we be alike in the right ways and different in the right ways...it requires just the right blend and it is often that blend that causes us to feel we at last have found our soul mate. Some say love is how someone makes you feel when you are with them...that is is our own response that makes us feel love.

[Jenna2]

Again I must caution all of us to be very careful here. I'm seeing lots of "shoulds" in this thread. I know our intentions are positive, but let us bear in mind that we are operating with very limited information, we don't know all the facts in this situation, and we must avoid jumping to any conclusions. I think DML is looking for our empathy, compassion and support, and that is all we "should" be offering to her ♥

Addendum: I just now read this timely article online, and I invite you to read it too: Living in the 'Shoulds'

Hi Marty,

I hear what you're saying, but I'm tired of people complaining about shoulds. There are good shoulds too, like I should brush my teeth, I should keep my apartment picked up, I should eat healthier, and so on.

I had this one counselor who used to jump on me every time I used the word should. Finally, I stopped seeing her. I wrote her a letter detailing why, and my #1 complaint was her criticizing my use of the word should.

Jenna

[DML]

Well its been awhile since I have updated so here s what is new..

We are still separated, she seems to think that we have been split up for a lot longer than we have been. She is still hurting herself and still has blocks of memory loss. She is seeing a therapist ( whom she has no memory of seeing the past 15 months ) who loaned her a book called Bodily Harm that is about people who harm themselves. She asked me to read it and tell her why she is doing this. She sleeps a lot now as well. Could that be depression?

Last weekend she decided to come stay with me . She kept telling me I needed to go meet someone else. I said no I was not interested. She pressed the issue and finally I said that I could not go meet anyone else because I was still in love with her. She said the only way she could move on was for me to move on first. I said well that is not happening. Then she drops this bomb... she tells me she isn t sure if she can handle seeing me with anyone else and she feels as if she would be cheating should she meet someone and become intimate. I asked her why she even bothered coming over for the weekend and she said she wanted to see if she could handle being here without the dog and if her and I could be friends. She also asked me why I had moved so far away from her? I explained that the plan was for her to get her act together and then move out here with me. She looked at me with a blank stare and said she didnt remember this. She also started crying over the dog and the person she lost.

This is so very difficult. I never know what she will remember and what she will not. She also thinks she has told me something when she has not. I seriously wonder how she functions every day. Is it possible for someone to " fade " in and out of memory like this? I am so mentally , emotionally and physically exhausted. I spoke to our family doctor again about what is going on but she told me I had to focus on myself to stay healthy for all this.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[kayc]

Honestly, I've never heard of this and I'm so glad she's seeing a therapist! I agree, you can't fix her, it is best to focus on your own well being. Something is affecting her memory, I am surprised the doctors don't have more of a clue...or do they and they aren't telling you?

So she did come stay with you then? How did that go for you?

[DML]

Yes she stayed over last weekend. The Saturday was when we had our discussion. I forgot to mention that she still refuses to let me have zero contact with her ( I do not want this either but I refuse to be around when she has met someone else ) . I told her I am not friends with my exes and I have no interest in seeing her happy with someone else. She said that she cannot handle any more losses and if I leave she will consider it another loss. SIGH! Now the next day , the Sunday was much better. I did not sleep well Saturday night so I finally decided to just keep things light because I dont want her to start hurting herself more.

As for the therapist.. I guess she received a call from him and she went to his office but she thought he was a different type of doctor. When he said he was her therapist she did not believe him until she saw her file. She says she is taking meds but I do not know what and for how long. I do not think they are working very well. I mentioned to her that I thought losing the dog has triggered her depression again and she agreed. I just cannot figure out why she is so adamant about not being with me... unless its because I remind her of our dog. I just am so mentally exhausted. I think I am going to go see my own therapist for a " tune up ". Just a few sessions to help me cope.

[Pollara]

Are you sure that she really don't remember things? Memories loses isn't something so usual and I doubt that a therapist would have heard something like that and just give her to read a book and not prompt her to a psychiatrist. Are you sure that she is not making things up because it is convenient to her? She seems like a girl that needs attention so it wouldn't sound strange to me if she was making things up in order to have your attention.

I believe that at this point you don't gain anything. Instead, you have stuck up to the solution of not letting her go and now you hurt yourself emotionally. Because even if this girl turn mentally stable, I believe that she uses you as a healer and as a psychologist told me recently, healers are disposed when their services are not needed. So that means when she will be fine she won't need your services anymore and dispose you. I believe at this point that you should do what is better for yourself. She wants to have everything, you around as a friend, a new girlfriend etc. Life cannot give you everything you want