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Gf Broke Up After Death Of Father, She Left For Sisters Ex-Boyfriend..

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Hello all,

I found this forum through a link on http://www.relationshiptalk.net

Sadly the father of my GF through 4 years died in January. After 4 1/2 months she (27 yo) broke up with me (37 yo) and immediately (the day after), started a relationship with sisters ex-boyfriend (they broke up 2 years ago, but he remained a friend of the father).

The story in detail is posted here:


Some background info on her:

She had a rough growing up due to the divorce of her parents. She had a hard time in school, and got bullied by her sister and brother for that reason, she had a lot of complexes and low self-esteem. She had a depression in her late teens and took anti-depressant medicine until she was 24 (1 year into our relationship). During our 4 year relationship I helped building her up, and she got a lot more independent and self-confident. I always supported her - like when she told me she wanted to go back to study (both siblings have an education, she doesn't), but she was afraid she wouldn't be able to cope. I never doubted that she would and supported her all the way. (Her father died before she started, so now that she dumped me too, she won't be able to financially - the sisters ex is studying too). That is just one example - getting her off the anti-depressant, another... and the list is long.

She had a REALLY tight relationship with her father. She always said that her world would collapse when he died. He was having a lot of problems with his heart, so although his death was somehow expected, such an event comes a shock anyway. He could have lived for another 10 years too.

Like I read on so many other post here, she distanced herself from me, and I let her - because I had no idea how else to react... We had less and less communication and when we did talk, it would usually be arguments. She didn't show many emotions and I felt useless.

In the last month or so she did a lot of stuff with her sisters ex-boyfriend. He helped with some practical issues (getting rid of the fathers guns, as they were both competition shooters). Mid may she broke up with me and immediately started a relationship with him.

I want her back, and I know the standard advice: Go no contact, work on yourself and move on and see if she returns by herself. I doesn't help me obtain my goal by itself.

I am moving forward, I do a lot of exercise, I am getting settled in my own place and I sleep and eat well (now - not in the beginning). I keep in touch with her about one a week. She never mentions her new relationship, and she doesn't know that I know who he is.

What I am interested to know is:

1) What phase of grief she is in? She lost her father 6 1/2 month ago.

2) What is the normal grief period for the described relationship between an insecure girl and her father that meant the world to her? She was/still lives in his house, and after 6 months it's pretty much unchanged (was there last week to pick up my furniture that was stored there). It looks like he could walk in the door anytime still. It took her 3 months before she was able to get rid of his toothbrush.

3) I got a chance to read her text messages (bad boy, I know), and from those it seems like she is really in love with her sisters ex. Their communication resembles how she wrote me when we started dating 4 years ago. At the same time, she wrote a friend she wished she was dead (she has a lot of problems keeping the fathers house financially).

What can her new boyfriend expect at this point? (or rather, how long will it last). I figure I got the anger stage, and she broke up with me to escape reality with the feeling of being in love and at the same time find a refugee with someone who knew the father better that me?

I know no one can give a definitive answer to any of the questions, but I would be interested in hearing your takes.

Thanks for taking your time to read all this!

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This says you know what to do. You have no choice but to accept her decisions and make your decisions accordingly, and in your own best interest. She will likely have to suffer the consequences of her decisions, as we all do. You can't protect her from them. When she hits rock bottom, she may remember what she had with you and actually miss you. By that time you may have moved on and won't want her back, but then again, maybe you will, only time will tell. To pine away and stay in her life and focus on her even the least little bit, will only drag out your pain and prolong your recovery. You can do what you want, and will, but this is just my two cents from having been there and having seen similar situations countless times.

Look back through this section and find the quote by Don Ho that I posted...it is your best chance for recovery. It is also your best chance with her, if that's what you truly want. Time may change that as you heal and grow healthier inside.

Personally, if it was me, and someone took up with someone else next day after breaking up with me, I would be done, but that's just me. If she did it that quick, don't think she wasn't thinking about it when she was with you, you don't just wake up one day and say, "Oh, I think I'll take up with my sister's ex today!" And that shows she wasn't as committed to you as you were to her. That shows she was conflicted. No matter how you look at it, that doesn't look like great relationship material to me.

Remember, others will not treat you with respect if you don't first treat yourself with high regard and respect. The more you let her treat you like a doormat, the less chance you'll ever have of having a good relationship with her. In other words, you need to set boundaries for her whether in a relationship or a friendship or nothing at all. What would your boundaries be? If you let her be with you for four years and then sleep with someone else and then hang around and wait for her to come back to you...what does that say to her? Doormat, pretty much. Loose boundaries. Needy. Have respect for yourself and move on.

If someday, in the future, you run across each other and want to try to give it a go again, you will need to talk honestly and openly about what happened, why, and what can be done to prevent its re-occurrence. Without doing that, it will likely happen again. If the circumstances don't change, you will get the same results. Who would be glutton enough for punishment to want that?

BTW, I'm very sorry you find yourself in this situation, it sucks, pretty much...I've been through it and it hurts like hell. While you feel tremendous emotion right now, you're going to have to try and let your head rule a bit.

I want her back, and I know the standard advice: Go no contact, work on yourself and move on and see if she returns by herself.
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Hey KayC

Thanks a million for taking the time to reply.

I am moving on, albeit slowly. It doesn't help that I am not working at the moment and does have a normal everyday life. I DO have a job. Actually everything is going well on that front, just got a promotion and am unable to work due to paperwork that needs to be processed. I am a pilot and got promoted to Captain the day she broke up with me, talk about irony! It would have solved so many economical problems for her to stay with me. (She will have to take 2 jobs to keep the house of her father, and still she will struggle).

In the 4 years we were together, I NEVER had any doubts that she was doing anything with someone else. And she would have had plenty of opportunity, as she is a long haul flight attendant (another company than mine). Her moral standards used to be extremely high, and she would criticize and condemn anyone having affairs. Especially colleagues, where as I used tell her to leave people to their own business. I am sure she is feeling very conflicted that she picked up with him that fast.

In our last months, we became detached from each other as I mentioned in my first post. She withdrew from me and I didn't know how to handle it, so I withdrew as well. In that time she probably fell in love with the sister's ex. She always told me what a great guy he was and she couldn't understand why her sister broke up with him (2 years earlier). I only meet him once or twice, and never spoke more than "hello" with him. From the opportunity I had to look in her messages (last week when I picked up my furniture), I am 100% sure that she didn't start anything with him until she broke with me. Although I agree that it's pretty awkward that she drives to him the next day to confess her love. I am not trying to defend her, only to explain that she was faithful through out the relationship. Hence, I wouldn't be concerned that she would have affairs if we found together again.

Can you give me I direction to the Don Ho quote?

Thanks for your time again!

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Here it is:


Again, I'm sorry, I do know how hard this is. My fiance and I were engaged for a year when he suddenly broke up with me (he was taking care of his dying mother). It totally threw me for a loop, I did not expect it at all. We had no contact for a few months, and when we resumed after her death, he put me through an emotional roller coaster until I called a halt to it and decided I wasn't crying over him again...I never let him that deep inside of me or to give me hope for a relationship with him again. Today we are "phone pals", he calls every 2-3 days, we chat, that's it. It's been three years since he broke up with me, next month. And I've moved on...not with someone, but just on with my life.

Congratulations on your promotion! I'm sure you'll do very well, both professionally and personally. It is her loss. And I doubt this had to do with you, but rather with the circumstances of grief. Remember, Don Ho's list was written for breakups in general, grief lends a little different light to it, but all the same, we must do for ourselves what is best for us as these many posts in this section attest...that after waiting and much patience, very few "make it" when the break up occurs because of grief/loss.

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Thanks for the link, fortunately I have been doing that all along. Except after a month when she wrote me a nasty set of messages. She blamed for moving on too quickly and accused me of already being with someone else (which couldn't be further from the truth). The reason was, I posted a new profile pic on Facebook, where I looked happy being on the beach. She jumped to conclusions that I must have been there with another woman. True I was - with my mother!!

So I had to spill my guts, how terrible I was doing to have a chance to keep communication with her. A week after I was calling her and did everything you are not supposed to, except for begging. On the contrary I said the had to try this new love affair out and I hoped she would be thinking of me if it didn't work out (doormat).

Since then I havn't discussed the relationship again. I picked up my furniture that I had stored at her place a good week ago. I wasn't sad when I was there and she must have got the impression that I was pretty much on top. Except for a moment when I took her hand and held it for a good 3 min (with out saying anything we sat there), no feelings were shared.

Anyway, I can't keep this illusion she might come back in a few months. SHE IS WITH ANOTHER MAN NOW! No matter if she may have feelings for me still, will hold hands with me, and answer my messages and call politely (perhaps due to bad conscience?).

I spent the day deleting every trace of her from my 2 laptops, my iPad and my iPhone - they were infested with her! All the pictures of her I put on an external hard disk where they will stay till I can look at them again with out getting sad.

I deleted her phone number too :(

Now it's up to her...

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By the way here is another link that is worth keeping in mind.


Especially Rule 1 - Nothing is as it seems:

"You build up ideas in your head based on your perceptions of others. People fake it, and your mind takes broad liberties when filling in the blanks."

I keep telling myself that she is deeply in love with this guy, because I had a chance to look in her messages. But, in reality I still have no idea how she truly felt when she wrote them / how she feels at the moment.

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When Jim broke up with me, I came home and got rid of every trace of him...I packed up anything he had at my house and dropped it off at his house with his roommate the next morning and left immediately. Anything he'd given me that I didn't want to give back to him, not wanting to slap him in the face with it, I put away where I wouldn't have to be confronted with the reminders. Still, there were the places we used to go, the activities that reminded me of him, etc. It can haunt you for a long time.

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I don't agree with the post you linked here, I had "the one"...he died. But there was no doubt in either of our minds.

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hi! I am sorry for all you are going through but I agree with KayC. Of course I am not pretending that I am different than you and that I don't want my ex, but as I have already mention, I still have feelings for him because I only have good memories of him. If I learn that he found another girl then not only my attention, but even my anger would be unworthy for him.

The fact that he started dating with her sister's ex to me it is unforgivable and although it hurts, it might be a bless in disguise. Imagine to spend the rest of your life with her and then one day dumped you for another person.

As for her grieving process, only the person herself knows. For instance I know a lot of persons that had their grieving process done after 3 or 6 months. But it is not always the same for everyone.

But my opinion is that you shouldn't attribute everything to grief. Meaning that you believe that she turned to him due to grieving etc. She might already have done with grieving and she might be in love with him. Sorry that I sound like that, but I am just telling my opinion from what I am reading

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I agree with Pollara...sometimes it's hard to know what happened, and sometimes the grief is the last straw or a trigger of an already existent problem that unfortunately, both of you may not have been aware of. Sometimes I think that about what happened between me and Jim. My gut tells me he has a lot going on inside of him that has nothing to do with me, but affected me greatly, things he didn't come out and tell me because HE isn't comfortable doing so, not because I'm unapproachable. At any rate, I had to let him deal with his life as best as he could, and move on with mine. We are friends, but it's highly unlikely to move beyond that. By my way of looking at it, he has a lot of work to do on himself and seems to avoid doing it, while I will continue working on myself and am unafraid to tackle it...to me that's just part of life and being a grown up.

Good luck to you, I hope better things for your future.

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Thanks for the replies.

I keept having contact with her since the last post. I told her that I know that her new boyfriend is the sisters ex, in the hope that she would start communicate more freely with me, because she wouldn't be hindered by having that secret.

Unfortunately she got mad that I found out (talk about irony, I anyone should be mad it should be me). And she told me not to contact her again. So I am leaving it at that. I did my best, I don't see what else I can do now but to move on. I hope it will be easier than how I feel now.

Thanks again.

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It's her guilty conscience talking...strike out before being struck sort of thing. I'd ignore it and yes, try to move on. It will get easier, but it does take time, you will go through the grieving the loss of her, perhaps a few months of tears/sadness, but it will gradually get better.

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Well yes. For me there wouldn't have been any hope in any case if she had found another guy. Because the case is usually that the grievers don't have the emotional energy to devote on a relationship. But since she found the energy to devote on another guy and not you I don't see how this is a matter or grief. Or did you probably believe that due to her grief she rushed and do something really irrational? Well who knows, it might be the case, but in my opinion don't put your hopes in this. Just try to move on and I hope the best for you.

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Pollera, you are right. I saw it like she did something irrational, but the truth is probably that I was blind. She talked highly about this guy 4 year ago when I meet her, and he was still with her sister. She couldn't understand why her sister broke up with "this great guy" 2 years ago. He remained a friend of her father and helped her with a lot of practical stuff after he died, when I was away for work in the spring (though I am 100% sure she wasn't unfaithful, she probably developed romantic feelings for him). Then we had a lot of fights, for which I blamed myself after the break up. Now I feel she probably wanted those fights to push me away and justify her feelings for him, hence she is to blame for not trying to solve things.

Last week I did 2 stupid things. 1st I sent back all the letters she wrote to me over the time we were together and some other stuff she gave me (not gifts, but small stuff of affection, like e.g. a ridiculous little plastic mouse holding a heart that says LOVE. She gave me that for good luck at some important occasion). 2nd I called her brother, who was accidentally driving in her car with her at the time. I could hear her in the background "hang up! hang up!"

As the decent person I am I felt sorry, if I hurt her for sending the stuff back, so I wrote her a letter explaining that I couldn't throw it away, but couldn't keep it with me either. I wished her the best of luck with her new relationship and that I wasn't judging it. I thanked her for our time together and wrote that it was a nice chapter in my life. No reply from her... I wasn't expecting it, but anyway - just a "thanks I wish you the best too" would have show a little bit of decent character. That, together with her immature "hang up!" really hurt me - it hurts, because I realize she is not the person I know anymore.

I had my first flight as a captain today. And nothing and nobody can ruin the happiness I feel about it. If she doesn't want to be a part of it - her loss. Something changed today and while I still want the girl she was 2 years ago, I don't want the girl she is today. I am sure some other sweet girl would like to be part of my life, and I realized too, that I am not in a hurry to meet her - I don't need to find someone just to get back at her. I have time!

I will not seek contact with her again, and I will avoid the best I can if she tries to contact me. Thanks for your support, I am done being victimized by her.

Sad end to things. I really would have done anything for her. She ruined it, she killed the love. I have no problems now (except for being single, if that is to be considered a problem :P ). She is the one left behind in the mess (economic, emotional, health, drinking, DATING HER SISTER'S EX). I feel sorry for her.

And no KayC, I cried enough tears for her (believe me A LOT), no more! I will still be truly sad for a while, but I will be able to lift myself out of the emotional state. And probably I will feel a sad feeling for the rest of my life, when I think about her and what could have been - but probably in a few months, it won't be that often. And probably when I have meet my next girlfriend/wife, it would rather be long a part.

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Well it is really strange how she is dating her sister's ex. Is her sister ok with it? Well I don't know how things are going and it is probably a matter of culture that is why I didn't comment at it or in the beginning I thought that the relationship with the sister was very old and it was for a few months or something. But in my country it is something that you don't do. I mean it may end up to sisters don't speak anymore or something.

Hmm as for your ex, it seems that she always had him on the back of her mind or something but she had a limitation of doing something with him (probably because she was her sister ex) and with the death the trigger was pulled. She might thought that life is too short to not to do what you want so she run to him. About this guy I really don't know what to say. How can he like both of the sisters?

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Well, it's the same here. It would normally be considered taboo. The sister went with that guy for several years, and they have been split up for 2 year (sister broke it off). They even went on vacations together all of the family when the sister was with him - my ex, her father, the brother, sister and that guy.

The sister took it well, it seem (she is in another relationship now). As you may remember, I (bad boy) had a chance to look at her messages. The sister wrote that he was a good guy and didn't deserve to be a rebound for me. However, that is 21/2 months ago, just after my ex broke up with me and apparently told her sister that she started out dating her ex. Who knows what she feels about it now! Or in the future. I certainly see a huge potential conflict between the sisters. They used to argue quite a lot, so I can imagine in a heated moment that subject could be explosive in the future.

My ex is a pretty hot-headed girl, a lot of temper. I can't imagine her living with that guy, without getting into arguments with him either. I don't know him very well, but in the heat of a moment, I can imagine he could say some pretty hurtful things too, when he was intimate with both of them.... I don't see a happy future knowing the temper of both my ex and her sister.

About that guy, I have no idea. Yes, I can't understand it either. To me it would be utter taboo, unless I was desperately seeking a sexual relationship and didn't care about the feelings of either (which would be out of character for me!).

Fortunately I am out! It hurts, and today I had a difficult moment because I was stupid to look into some pictures of her, plus I noticed she has blocked me on Whatsapp (a handy chat program, much like texting, for those not knowing).

Note to self, don't look at pictures, and don't check up on anything she did or does.

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yeah it is true. But it is still too early. And the more you try to suppress something, the more you end up doing it. In psychology there is something that it is called the white bear effect which says that if you try not to thing of a white bear, one will pop up in your mind every 2 minutes, meaning that the more we try not to think over something the more we think of it.

I did the same quite a lot of times. Tried not to see when my ex is poping up in the chat etc and even thought of blocking him. But there is no reason for me to do so and well it is my problem that I cannot forget him so I let it be and if he wants he can speak to me. I found it kind of immature to block him since we didn't got into a fight or something. Well maybe deep inside me I believe that if I block him he won't reach at me or by being there if he has this irrational thought of talking to me he will do it. Of course he won't. Well at least I said to myself that I will enter the chat only while I am working. In the end you cannot do a lot of things rather than trying to do other things so as not to thing about the "white bear".

yes it is really strange. It is like when he was with the other sister he still had feelings for her. But on the other hand, the sister was the one who broke it off, meaning that they could still have been together. So it seems really strange.

Oh and by the way sorry that I forgot, congratulations on your first flight! That is great news to share

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We think much a like it seems :-)

I have blocked and unblocked my ex from Facebook and whatsapp a handful of times now. I keep changing between thinking "she doesn't want me, so she shouldn't be able to see what I do" to "if she wants to see what she is missing out on, why not".

I know she was stalking me too, at least until 2 weeks ago. E.g. when she after 5 weeks sent me a long line of rude messages, it was because I changed my profile pic on Facebook. When I helped her backup her photos from her broken handy when I moved my furniture, one of the most recent pictures was a new whatsapp profile picture of me! None of the sisters ex by the way.

Anyway, I unblocked her again everywhere. If she really wants to see what I do, why should I care. If she want to contact me, I should be adult enough to handle it.

Thanks for all your posts Pollara, do you have a thread too? I would be interested in reading your story. What strikes me with these types of boards, is that all our ex'es seems to be the ones having the problems! :)

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yeah I have one started back in April so it has many answers on it. So it might be boring for you to read it all. It is here (http://hovforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/7922-should-i-stay-or-should-i-go/ ). But in the end I have read all other's people posts myself.

Well of course they have the problems since they are the ones grieving and lost their minds. But to me this is what holds me back. If my ex had chosen another girl or was a totally abusive guy or something else I would already considered it a past. It is the fact that he didn't do anything to me and that it was the wrong timing that makes things worse.

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I read the first and some of the last of your posts. Yes your situation is very different from mine.

You said that a grieving person doesn't have time for a relationship. Also in a previous post you said grieve can be 3-6 months depending on the person.

In the case of my ex, I think perhaps she is prolonging her grieving. The reason is, that after her father died she had to do a huge work with her sister and brother to find head and tail in all of his personal documents. It was a huge mess! So that involved a lot of people like lawyers and accountants, for at least 2-3 months (like all her time off when she was not working). They did all that work to fight for the heritage and my ex was the one fighting the hardest (the two other wanted to give it up).

The reason was that her father had this house, which my ex and I was living in too. Her father actually bought the house for her, 7-8 years ago and they renovated it together, with help of friends, and even including the sisters then-boyfriend (the one she is with now) - he made the work with the tiles in the bathrooms and kitchen.

Because she moved away for work, her father eventually moved into the house himself.

Therefore she has been fighting like a tiger to be able to keep the house, because it contain so many emotions for her. And last I spoke with her about it (a few weeks ago) it was still not sure that she could keep it due to the economic burden (I offered to help with that before she broke up, but she wanted to do thing on her own).

The house itself is like a Mausoleum for the father! All in it is his furniture, his pictures and paintings on the walls. It took her 3 months to throw away his toothbrush. And the last time I was there (3 weeks ago), it still looked the same (even his clothes was still hanging in his closet). He died in the start of january, so it's more than half a year. She did move his bed to another room, but otherwise the house looks the same. Also photos on the wall of HIS friends are still hanging there.

So my question is... did she even start grieving for him for real. Or is she clinging onto the house to keep him "alive", holding on to her old life, being in his surroundings. Like I told earlier, she will have to take a second job to keep the house.

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But isn't the fact that she wants to keep everything the same in the house a sign of grieving? I mean if you don't grief anymore you have accept the fact and you can do changes. ( It's the same with my ex. He is the one who is living in his mother's house and as my friends have told me it is exactly the same as she left it. But of course he doesn't work like your ex to keep it since it is his house. He also was the one that needed to do all the paperwork etc so he felt pressured. But the only time that he made some changes to the house was in the 3 first weeks that he hadn't realized the loss yet. After that the house stayed in the same condition pretty much. But unlike your ex my ex has been stuck to depression for 5 months now and he is getting worse over time).

I really don't know in which stage your ex is and when she will end up with her grieving or if she has a normal or delayed grieving. And also it depends on the person. There are a lot of people who need more than one year. But to me your ex girlfriend doesn't seem to suffer from depression. I don't know in which stage she is and if she is in any stage at all, but since he found this guy my opinion is that you should move on. Even if she did this irrational decision, I don't see any reason why to justify her? All these combined with the fact that she doesn't want to have contact with you at that time are indicators to what person she is. I mean ok I understand that they are grieving etc, but isn't this part of their character? their choices I mean. At the most difficult time of her life she chose to be with another guy? Why to forgive that? I don't know maybe I am too selfish. I can forgive a lot of thing. Even if my boyfriend has an one night stand up or something cause I can understand the difference between sex and love. But if someone chooses not to be with me even if he wasn't at his right mind, how can I forgive something like that?

For me some things if there are to happen they will. I believe that if my ex was really interested for me, when he done with his grieving he will return otherwise he never wanted me that much to begin with so we would have broken up anyway. So the same might appeal to your ex. Even if it wasn't for the grieving, at some point maybe she would have realized her suppressed feelings for him and had broken up with you. I believe that if a love is that great, no matter the circumstances they will be together. And not this is not because I am romantic etc, but it is how people's feelings are affected.

Will you have trust to this girl even if she will return to you that she won't do it again?

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Yes I didn't express myself clearly. I do think she is grieving, but what I meant is that I think she is stuck in the process and not moving on (or at least very slowly). I think she is depressed too. Why would she be drinking in excess otherwise. Going to work with a hangover as a flight attendant is not a very responsible thing to do = resigning behavior ("to hell with everything"). Again, the messages I saw, she wrote to her sister "that she wished she was dead and if her plane crashed, with her luck, she would probably be the only survivor".

Not really indication of someone floating on a cloud of new love. Would you say? More like this guy reduces the pain in a way I couldn't, maybe because I was a part of it all or maybe because I put too much demand on her to move on. I didn't do it directly, but probably indirectly as I was very rational about the risk of accepting the heritage and tried to talk her out of it... She wanted to keep the house no matter what!

Also, I lived in the house. He doesn't he has an apartment in another town and she can do with the house what she wants. He is surely not putting any demands on her. And she has another space (his apartment) that she can escape to when everything get too much.

I don't know if I want her back. I want my happy and loving girlfriend that is in my memory from last year and the years before. I honestly don't know if she still exist :( But I know that I could trust her 100% to always stand by me and to be there for me. If she is still inside I think I could trust her, forgive her and would want her back.

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Oh yes sorry I misunderstood. Yes she might have complicated grief but there is no a specific timeline. OK in most of the cases a 6 month period is OK but there are people who need years and some never get over it.

From what you say she seems more of a girl who needs attention. If you want to die you usually don't say it, you just do it. It is not coincidental that people who know other who commit suicide sometimes they say that this was out of his/her character and they didn't see that coming. Of course when you are grieving it is natural to have suicidal thought since you want to be with the deceased.

But when you are depressed you usually don't have the energy to deal with a relationship, not to mention a new one who needs more emotional effort to put on. So I really cannot attribute this just to grief. Because if you cannot have energy for someone who you are in the relationship for years, how can you have for someone completely new? OK he knew this guy a lot of years, but it is different from being friends to have a relationship with someone. I cannot see how on the one hand wants to die but on the other wants to start a new relationship.

In my opinion it seems to me that she wanted to do this from some time now. He had mixed feelings and she knew that this is not rational, but when the triggered was pulled (grief) she just did what she wanted and not what her logic told her to follow.

Also don't forget that she started the relationship one day after. Relationships don't happen from one day to another, so I believe she already had made a discussion with him and then just broke it off with you.

Of course you were there for helping her, but you know people tend to reject their "healers" when they don't need them anymore. It is like you are going to doctor. When you don't need his services you don't go there anymore. Maybe in her back of her mind he always had him.

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guilt haunted,

Your attitude is very healthy and I share your thrill at flying as a pilot, how great that is and you should feel such a sense of accomplishment!

I think, too, there comes a time when we can determine not to waste any more tears on them, for me it took a few months, for you a little sooner, but it is a healthy step in our moving forward. The point being...we don't need to be stuck in that broken place.

There also comes a time when we no longer need answers to move forward. Realizing that our ex may not be willing or able to furnish us an explanation or the truth, we relegate them to a place of insignificance that is truly healthy for us in going forward. They no longer have power to hurt us. :)

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No, I don't think she is suicidal either, but I don't think she is seeking attention either as she is not threatening her sister in the messages. She also wrote in the same messages that she thinks of her father all the time. This is 6+ months after he died, so she is definitely not in the acceptance stage.

I truly believe she has started the relationship with the sister's ex as an escape. Being with me was not easy for her. We had a lot of arguments after her father died, and I didn't understand or knew how to react to how she was grieving. I was expecting a lot of crying with me holding her. Instead she became introverted and stopped communicating with me and didn't want to be touched, just a brush on her arm and she would say it irritated her when people were doing that, and she didn't need it. I reacted by thinking she didn't want to communicated and left her alone. In the end the only communication was when there was something to argue about.

We didn't have any intimacy either. She had a slipped disc in her neck a month before her father died. After he died she started sleeping on his couch, instead of in our bed. She said it was because of the pain in her neck it was better to sleep alone and the couch was more comfortable for her. In retrospect, I think it was because she felt closer to him lying in his living room + she needed the TV to be able to sleep at all.

At the same time, when she was with the sister's ex doing practical stuff, he may have been there listening to her. And she may have had the communication with him instead of me. I see from the messages that in the last 2 weeks before we broke up, they were also hanging out together, but still with out romantic relation (of course I do not know what they have said to each other while they were meeting up). One week before, she has a message conversation with a girlfriend of hers about Tarot cards. And in the days before breaking up with me, she wrote to the sister's ex, that she had laid out tarot cards and had something she need to tell him face to face. Next day the break up with me. And the next day they meet up (I was away on work again). From the messages I can see they only meet a few hours. Early in the evening they start message again. One message from her, freely translated, "I am supprised you like me that way! You were always sacred to me".

When I came home the next day we had a conversation in the evening. I asked her how long I could stay in the house - if 2 weeks to a months was ok with her. She said she hoped that I could move out faster and didn't think it would be good for either of us if it took that long. I asked her if there was someone else, to which she replied "no, but there is someone I would like to go on a date with" and "someone you don't know, an old schoolmate that I keep bumping into". My reaction was to move two days later, both evenings we spent together talking, drinking wine cooking - even sleeping together on the couch the last night. The day after I moved out, I can see that she drove to him and spent the night there.

After I moved out she explained to her sister that "she would believe what happened in the last two weeks". That she had deliberately tried to think only positive thoughts and that a lot of people was approaching her. She even wrote that I changed 180 degrees (which is not true, I didn't change any view since her father died. She simply wasn't listening to me since her father died). The other people, I assume she is referring to the sister's ex and perhaps this schoolmate (if she didn't just made him up as an explanation to me, because she was too embarrassed to admit she was really interested in the sisters's ex). I can understand that she kept it secret to me (not only the taboo), but she may also have been afraid that I would think she had been cheating on me for months when driving around with him. From what I know now I have no reason to believe that. Besides from falling in love with someone else than me (and the taboo of it being the sisters's ex), it seems she behaved pretty decently.

So to answer Pollera: I have a pretty detailed view of what happened in the two weeks before and in the time after the breakup. The only thing I don't know is what is going on inside her head!!

Anyway, I really want to move on, with her or without her (and at the moment it looks like the last is the only option). I don't want to be stuck thinking about it, and though she is on my mind pretty much all the time when I am not doing anything, it's getting better. Before I was crying when thinking about her and couldn't really concentrate on anything or find joy in doing anything at all, as she would stay in my thoughts (like watching a movie, I wouldn't see or hear half of what was going on because I would be busy thinking about her). Now when I do something, I enjoy it and it takes my mind off of her, and when I think about her I am not getting emotional and don't have the uncomfortable hurt in the heart and stomach. Fortunately I didn't have to work after we broke up because of paperwork with my new license. Now that I had my first flight again the day before yesterday, I am happy to say that she only popped up in my mind briefly and only 5-10 times during a 12 hour work day! :)

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