Canine Homemade Diet Information

[mfh]

Just an update on the switch I am doing for Bentley's diet. I met with a friend today who gave me a ton of information to add to what I have already reaped. She feeds raw and has for 13 years. Her dogs are the picture of health. (I do not much of anything half way ) I am not prepared to try raw given Bentley's digestive issues but the ingredients are the same no matter cooked or raw.

Before you jump into this, it is wise to think about the time it takes. I believe it will be cheaper for me since Bentley has been on a prescription diet that I do not believe is high quality at all but costs a lot. I also will be joining with a group who gets a hefty discount on meat and tripe. (Tripe is the lining of an animals stomach and has the most vitamins and minerals in it). When a prey animal kills, he (or she) eats the tripe first because instinctively they know it is loaded with vitamins and minerals. I currently use freeze dried tripe and liver for treats for Bentley. I will be cooking for one month at a time and start with a beef diet and a chicken. Eventually I will get to three months at a time. So think about that. My friend has 3 dogs and it NOW after a long time of practice takes her ONE morning every three months to prepare a 3 month supply. Not bad but in the beginning that will be much longer especially if you include studying about it which you must do so you know what you are doing not just what I am doing.

Anyway, I have just spent 2 hours on this and I know it will be a few days before I have the final product given all this new info. I hope to begin making the transition within two weeks and have been preparing him by using treats of food that will be in the diet to see if he develops diarrhea. I am convinced his bouts of diarrhea are not diet related but are lymphoma related. I will post here as I go along but in the end, I will post the actual diet I will use with Bentley and all dogs I ever have in the future. It is important that you understand the needs of a dog in terms of diet...including supplements. I have learned too much about processed food to ever use it again but if I did have to for some unknown to me now reason, it would be as close to homemade as I could afford or buy. But that is just me. Buy the best you can buy.

Here is a great site I am studing today:

http://www.dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html (home)

http://www.dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html#supplements(supplements)

"Getting calcium right is essential. Meat has phosphorus and it must be balanced with calcium 2:1.

Adult dogs need around 800 to 1,000 mg of calcium per pound of food fed. They also require the calcium to be supplied in a proper proportion to phosphorus. The ideal calcium: phosphorus ratio in the canine diet is between 1:1 and 2:1. Meat contains a lot of phosphorus, so the more meat a diet contains, the more calcium will be required to reach the correct calcium:phosphorus ratio. Adding 800 to 1,000 mg of calcium will provide the correct calcium:phosphorus ratio even for a high-meat diet, unless you use a calcium supplement that also contains phosphorus. In that case, moderately higher amounts of calcium may be needed to balance out the additional phosphorus contained in the supplement.Ground eggshell can be used as a calcium supplement. Rinse eggshells and dry them on a counter overnight, or in the oven, then grind them in a clean coffee grinder. One large eggshell provides one teaspoon of ground eggshell, which contains 2,000 mg of calcium, so add ½ teaspoon ground eggshell per pound of food fed. Don’t use eggshells that haven’t been ground to powder, as they may not be absorbed as well."

[Kacy]

Mary,

I have fed a raw diet for years and my dogs have always done well with it. I had to modify it at times to a cooked one, but always felt it was 100% better than any dry food available and probably 500% better than anything that the vet sells. I think the only one who profits from the prescription food they sell is themselves.

As for the tripe, that is one of the favorites here. I buy frozen raw, but they loved the canned, too. It does smell terrible, but apparently not to them. When I had my little shih tzu with kidney disease, it saved her on more than one occasion when she didn't want to eat.

Hope all goes well. I think most dogs prefer the homemade diet over any kind of dry. You might want to think about adding a probiotic. Your friend would probably be able to advise you there. Dogaware is a full of great information on diet and a lot of health related information for dogs. Mary Strauss started that website years ago and has put a lot of work into it.

A lot of vets will discourage a raw or cooked diet. I know my regular vet does as do the specialists, but I am going to do what I think is best for my dogs. I had consulted by phone with an older vet who is into the raw diet. He is a regular vet but does believe in holistic type treatments also. He told me if I ever have to take my dog to the ER and they ask what I feed to tell them Science Diet! I got a good laugh out of that. He's right, too, but I can't tell a lie so I always say I feed raw. It's funny because it is almost always noted in the report of the visit I get from some of the vets. I wonder if they would bother to note it on there if I had said Science Diet.

Good luck with the switchover. I don't know about cooked but when we switched to raw, they said not to mix with the dry. Better to give a few more small meals of the new food rather than mix. But that may not be the case with cooked. Are you using a crockpot?

Mary

[mfh]

Thank you, Mary. I do have probiotics...actually 2 plus some in his vitamin/mineral supplement. I will also be putting yogurt in and removing one of the probiotics. Yes, I am probably going to keep the food separate and just give him some of the new cooked separate rather than mix them. Makes sense if it is all dry kibble but not doing this. Some recommend adding an ingredient at a time but that would take forever and does not seem needed. Yes, a crockpot and grinding all meat so it is more digestible. My friend feeds raw tripe and she also said it stinks but so good for them. I do wish I had done this 11.5 years ago. But here we are. Thank you. Mary

[Maylissa]

While I didn't have dogs, I started making homemade raw (mainly Dr. Pitcairn & his nutritionist wife's recipes at the time) for our feline furchildren way back in the '90's, on the advice and vast knowledge of our integrative vet. I wasn't able to transition our furkids 100% to raw, but at least to ~50-60% of their diet. I used about 6 or so different flavours, and combos, that they preferred, to add variety and different nutritional and even TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) properties to their diet, and to help address different medical conditions that arose for each. It used to take us 1 full day, from scratch, to make a whole year's worth...since cats are smaller than many dogs, of course. Froze it in small rounds, then just thawed portions in glass jars for daily use.

We used nothing but organic, non-GMO ingredients, including NON-bleached eggs (for the eggshell calcium....never using the alternative bonemeal, with all the issues around that). If you didn't know already, even "organic" designated eggs are required by law to be bleached prior to sale, and that "Clorox" is then of course absorbed into the shell, creating yet another area of risk! My supplier, however, would sell soap-washed, but unbleached, eggs to certain customers, if she could trust them to stay hush-hush about it. I don't know how one gets around this other important consideration if you aren't hooked up with such a small, private supplier who you can get to know so personally.

I had that one particular, local supplier for the turkey, chicken, and these eggs, so that I knew first-hand what their operation was like -- very old-school, where all the birds were raised naturally, were TRULY free-roaming, fed organically, and even killed on-site, not sent to slaughter houses. (this whole part still sickened me, mind you, but veg and vegan cat diets were not very well researched or available as yet back then) There are and were, however, several highly successful and very healthy, balanced veg or vegan diets for dogs, even back then (e.g. see Diane Stein's book, "Natural Healing for Dogs & Cats") -- even cheaper and easier to use than meat-based recipes. And yes, we used several supplements and appropriate vitamins as well, including probiotics and digestive enzymes -- both of human, high grade, multi-faceted types.

Our furbabies ate even "cleaner" food overall than we did! Other than the raw, they ate high-quality canned (mainly Wellness brand...which in later years, once they were gone anyway, had escaped all the tainted food recalls that had killed so many pets, I was pleased to see), plus tiny daily portions of Wellness, non-grain dry (since I couldn't totally break them of that latter, bad habit by then). I also used the highest quality water I could get. Nowadays, our drinking water is even better, but I didn't have the equipment or other such aids back then to super-charge it, as I do now.

So I had been a proponent of raw food diets for animals for a LONG time, and have been warning others against the bulk of commercial pet foods, and especially "prescription" diets, for about 2 decades now. I've found most people, however, just don't want to know...then wonder why their animals get so afflicted with illness, or die well before their natural lifespans. If anyone is wondering, one of THE best books to read regarding this whole field is Canadian, Ann N. Martin's, "Food Pets Die For - Shocking Facts About Pet Food." She's known as "an international authority" on the dangers of pet foods. She regularly updates it; in 3rd edition right now. It's also full of homemade recipes, and other great information. See her featured works here:

http://www.newsagepress.com/foodpetsdiefor.html

Ann has also written another book - "Protect Your Pet: More Shocking Facts" -- http://www.newsagepress.com/protectyourpet.html which also includes info on the dangers of vaccinations, and alternatives to same.

To me, our furbabies are MORE than worth gaining the knowledge about their health and well-being, and hence helping stave off our loss of them as long as possible. It's win-win.

[mfh]

Maylissa, this is invaluable information and I thank you. This reminds me of my sister and how she has feed both of her babies. She made their baby food and froze it in ice cube trays (this is 40 years ago) so they grew up with wonderful food. I think our pets deserve the best just as we do. I will check out your links. I do live in an area where healthy food is readily available. The Organic Valley started in my neighborhood and it caught on so that I have access to eggs, chicken and beef and yes, turkey as well as veggies and some fruits. Once I get a pattern this should be easy. Then maybe I will clean up my own diet also though I do pretty well with that. In my opinion, the food and water we feed our pets (and ourselves) is the single most important health move we can make. I think I will be ready to make my first batch even over the weekend or at the latest next week. Then I will post what I am doing.

Peace,

mary

[mfh]

Progress is being made. Bentley's first batch of homemade food is now completed and I have tested him for all the ingredients. I have to kennel him for a few days this coming week and when I return we will begin the transition. As we cooked (a friend who feeds her three dog raw food came over and helped me) and use the grinder, Bentley watched and waited for some treats. I was excited about him finally getting high quality food. Here is what we did in case someone wants to consider this:

I purchased a grinder using my friend's advice...a tough grinder that won't wear out. Happy to share any of this information if someone wants it.

I had about 25 lbs of deboned and skinned chicken breast (some I deboned which I won't do again...as it is not that much much more expensive at our meat sites to get it skinned and boned). We ground it up and baked it. While it cooked we cooked sweet potatoes and carrots in the microwave and green beans, celery, Chinese cabbage, spinach, parsley, zuchini and kale lightly. Then we ran all that plus cooked tripe (Kathy cooked it at home as it stinketh and she cooks it outside) through the grinder and then the chicken. We also ground up whole eggs raw (from my friend's chickens-organic) for fat and calcium (in the shells). I kept the meat separate for this first batch but we weighed it all out as we packaged it and labeled it. He gets 1.5 lbs of food a day for his 80 lbs. 2% roughly of his weight. We may go up or down if he needs more or less. So 75% (18 oz) of that will be meat, liver and tripe but no liver this time. Then that 18 oz will get mixed with 6 oz of veggies at serving time along with some yogurt, Call of the Wild (vitamins from Wysong on web with enough calcium to balance the phophorus) which is created for homemade diets to assure vitamins.

He will get milled flax seed and kelp and fish oil also upon serving. This dog is now eating better than I am. I put the food in containers that would serve him for 3 days so I am not defrosting too much at a time. 3 is recommended. I will get a rhythm eventually but this time I was totally wiped out. My friend Kathy does this for her 3 dogs every 4 months and with her husband's help they get it all done in a half day...but they do raw. No cooking except potatoes and beets. The planning is important. Watching the ads for sales and the UW Provisions which provides meat to all the restaurants, or a lot of them, in Madison has wholesale prices. (this week $1.79 lb for deboned and skinned breasts and thighs). So I am getting on all of their lists including a group of raw feeders who invited me to join them and get a huge discount on the meat and tripe and heart and gizzards etc. Kathy took the bones home (including one chicken breast I removed from Bentley's mouth) and her dogs eat those for their evening meal. I am not there yet and won't be with Bentley.

So that is it. In a month, I will let you know how it is going but if anyone wants information, others here know and I now know and am happy to share. It has to be done right, I have learned so nutritional requirements are met. Maylissa thanks for the info.

I wish I had done this when Bentley was 8 weeks old, maybe he would not have cancer now but who knows. I fed him high quality food, as best i could afford, and since 60% of Goldens die of cancer I can't believe his is all related to food but rather to the environment in which we live. If Bentley does not feel better on this program, at least I will.

Peace to all,

Mary

[kayc]

$1.79 is a great price! Let us know how it goes when he's on it, I hope all goes well. It's a lot of work but if it helps him...

[Kacy]

Mary,

First off, I have to say you have a true friend in Kathy - anyone who would cook tripe for you is a true friend, IMO! I occasionally feed raw, frozen tripe and it definitely does stink, but the dogs love it.

So nice that Kathy is able to guide you along. It can be overwhelming at first, but I think worth all of the work. I'm sure Bentley will appreciate his new diet. I don't know any dogs that prefer dry food over home cooked - cats maybe, but not dogs.

Keep us posted.

Mary

[mfh]

Hello to alll,

Bentley has now finished his first month (almost) of homemade food and is loving every minute of it including being in the kitchen when I cook. So far the meat has been chicken with lots of veggies, kelp, eggs including ground up shells, vitamins, probiotics etc. This week my friend and I will make the next batch which will be beef (including liver) and chicken (separate). I keep the meat portion separate from the rest so I can vary the meat more. I will add pork and turkey the next time around. It has been a bit tedious as I was attempting to make sure the proportions of veggies to meat and calcium to phosphorus (which is in the meat) were sound. This batch will be perhaps two months.

I am a regular at UW Provisions in Madison which sells meat (fresh and frozen) wholesale. I buy meat at about 20-40 pounds at a time. A lot for a non-meat eater. I eat meat, myself, on rare occasions. I don't even like it.

Bentley's lymph nodes in his neck are growing as is his white blood cell level. BAD sign. He gets minor infections that take forever to heal as his immune system is so shot. Now I am ready to try the herb mix my other vet (alternative) really wants him to have as his fever (not high but high enough) and the lymphoma would both be helped by it. He got diarrhea when I last tried it but he is stable on the homemade food so I will try again. I am using Wysong Call of the Wild (vitamins made for homemade diets). I picked up some sardines on sale at Costco yesterday and will put a few on top of his food for fish oil but I do have a liquid fish oil also.

He remains energetic (as energetic as a almost 12 year old 80 lb dog gets). He lost 3 pounds (was 83) and I am aiming for 3 more which puts him at 77 his natural weight. He gained 6 because the vet I no longer see wanted 6 pounds on him but it is too much and makes breathing more difficult so off it is coming.

I pray for one more year with him. Will be blessed with that and any more than that would be a miracle I will embrace. I focus on now but it is hard to see him make a slow exit just as Bill died.

That's it for a while. Happy to respond to questions if any. I am no expert, just learning but appreciating homemade dog food and feel I am doing well by him. ALL future dogs will either homemade cooked.

Peace

Mary

[kayc]

Mary,

I'm sorry to hear Bentley's lymph nodes are increasing. You are doing as I would, by taking a day at a time and enjoying what time you DO have, and that is the focus. I'm glad he is tolerating the diet, I'm sure it's doing wonders for him.

[Kacy]

Mary,

Glad that Bentley likes his new diet. I think most dogs prefer a homemade diet over dry or even canned. Cats are another story sometimes. Some actually seem to prefer dry.

I was curious as to what the new supplement is that your holistic vet wants to try. I've used Standard Process products and I know there is one for the immune system and wondered if that was the supplement, although there are so many available now. I have not used any of their products to treat cancer, but am using them for heart disease in one of my dogs and also to protect her kidneys due to the medication she is on.

Mary

[mfh]

The herb is called Si Miao San/GM

1/2 tspn by mouth every 12 hours. slowly work up to 2 tspn every 12 hours (FOR HIS WEIGHT which is 78 lbs).

I get it from a local alternative vet. here is a web site about it.

https://pathwithpaws.com/blog/2011/06/17/si-miao-san-slowing-down-cancer-and-inflammation/

Bentley had diarrhea on day 3 of this but I never know what causes it. I could have been gone too long or it was the mix of herbs or who knows what. So today he is having loose stools big time and it could be the beef (new) vs the chicken or that I was gone for 4 hours yesterday....I use slippery elm bark for that now and sometime metroniazole depending on if it lasts or not. Lately it has been one day. We shall see.

Peace and good luck

Mary

[kayc]

Yeah, it seems when I try Arlie on something new his system doesn't handle it well. I have him on Probiotics that I order on line...the vet asked me why, I told her it stands to reason if it helps him "from time to time" it'd benefit him long term, so I keep him on it, it has made a huge difference. Him and Skye both have had to deal with sensitive systems!

[mfh]

Yes, I have Bentley on probiotics all the time plus some yogurt, plain, Greek.

[Kacy]

Mary,

I have heard of that particular herb before. Hope that it helps. I wish more traditional vets would be willing to learn about different forms of healing techniques, but some seem to be "stuck" in the ways that they learned years ago - and in some cases, not so many years ago.

I have used many different supplements over the years for various illnesses that my dogs have had, and I have found less problems with them than with most of the medications I have used.

Please keep us updated on Bentley!

Mary

[mfh]

Yes, Kacy, I think that just as allopathic MDs should be educated to "alternative" healing so should vets. This vet I "use" is retiring soon. She brought alternative treatment to a town about 80 minutes west of me and even got the farmers there using alternative as well as allopathic medicine. She has a nice mix. Her business partner is even more into it. I am grateful. A long drive but worth it. My regular vet is open to it and about 40 minutes away. This is the third vet I have had for Bentley....I walked away from the one less than a block away when he did not respond appropriately to Bentley's. Ends when he swallowed a BIC shortly after Bill died. I walked away from the second o e last year when she did not ha dale an ER call appropriately and had no feelings. Now I have a nice mix but it took a bit to find them.

[Kacy]

Mary,

Would love to find a holistic MD also, but with insurance companies being what they are, I think that would be even harder than finding the vet.

I have also had to switch regular vets over the years, in some cases leaving a vet I truly liked personally but did not see eye to eye on with certain things (vaccinations, etc.). I also have switched from both of the local veterinary cardiologists to one 2 hrs away, which is a concern when your dog is having a crisis. But I just do not feel they were as concerned about my dog as I felt they should be and, in one case, the vet traveled so extensively that it seemed was always either out of town or scheduled to be out of town - this happened twice in less than a year's time when 2 of my dogs needed emergency care and we were stuck with less than adequate ER treatment.

It was a pleasant surprise when the new cardiologist had someone in his office call me a few days after Molly's first visit there because he knew how stressful it had been for her (she doesn't travel well and we had a long wait in his office due to them being extremely busy that day). He was actually off sick the day they called, but had emailed someone in his office and asked them to call to check on her, so it made it even more impressive. He also had such a caring way about him.

I'm glad you were able to find a good vet who is into alternative treatments as well. Seems to be hard enough to find one or the other, let alone someone into both types of treatments.

Mary

[Kacy]

Hi Mary,

Well, as luck - or no luck - would have it, I now have more interest in the diet you are using for Bentley. First of all, hope he is doing okay. Is he still enjoying his new diet?

I had looked at the link you sent about the herbs from the holistic vet when you first sent it. It's ironic because I then came across it again yesterday in doing some research online. I didn't realize until I again went to it today from your post that it was the same vet!

The reason I am doing this research is that I connected (thru emails) a woman giving away a little Yorkie for free on Craigslist to a local rescue group that I thought might help her find a home for her so she didn't give her away to just anybody. The woman stated in the ad that the dog had a lump on her gums. The rescue group decided to take her so that she would be safe because the woman was going to take her to a shelter the next day.

They immediately took her to their vet, who said that the dog has oral melanoma and there doesn't seem to be much hope for treatment. She did not do a biopsy because she said it is obviously melanoma. She suggested a consultation with a specialist. The rescue group does not feel they want to put her thru surgery, chemo/radiation, etc. The dog is around 14 years old, but doesn't seem to know there is anything wrong with her.

I have offered to help by taking her to OSU for a consultation and am waiting to hopefully hear back from the oncologist there to see if it is even advisable to do that since we are not willing to follow up with surgery, etc. I emailed her this morning so hopefully she will reply.

My first choice would actually be a good holistic vet that might have some experience with this type of cancer, but I'm not sure I will be able to find one. I've used several in the past with some success, at times, depending on the condition we were there for. But it seems some of these conditions are just beyond their experience level. Oral melanomas, apparently, are basically not successfully treated no matter which direction you go - or at least from what I am reading.

I thought maybe I would try to make a batch of cooked food (I feed raw to mine but the rescue group is not comfortable with that) and wondered if you would mind sharing your recipe. This poor little thing is only 8 lbs - about 1/2 the sizes of even my smallest dog here! If nothing else, I think she will enjoy getting good food! I thought about suggesting Standard Process Immune Support but don't know if there is anything else that might help. I have contacted one of the holistic vets I have used in the past to see if she has any experience with this. Waiting to hear from her also.

Thanks for any help!

Mary

[mfh]

Hi Kacy, I just happened to get an email with your post in it. Bentley is doing well on his homemade food. I have learned a few things to change also. Here is what I do. A friend who feeds raw comes about every 6 weeks to help me.

I buy chicken and beef (so far) at the University of WI Provisions (wholesale place that sells to restaurants but open to the public). I buy chicken 45 lbs at a time. Bentley weighs in at 80 lbs but eats like a horse and my goal is to maintain his weight because he will eventually lose it. He has had a head full of hot spots these past two weeks. 4 vet trips last week and she is coming here on Wednesday. He IS healing so he has some immune system functioning. He is playful, loves his walks and sleeps a LOT.

I grind a lot of chicken and I buy ground beef (lowest fat I can afford)

I cook the ground chicken separate from the ground beef in the oven. Drain WELL, I mean WELL. (Even after draining beef forever, before I serve it I put it in the microwave for 30 seconds to get any remaining fat out of it as it upsets his stomach).

I mix chicken with beef to serve as all beef was too rich.

I freeze the meat in 3 day plastic containers.....same with veggies.

I cook carrots, beans, broccoli, celery, spinach, kale, and other veggies. I cook the leafy stuff just barely. I add eggs (18 to a huge batch)

Also bake the shells and grind to powder for calcium.

They must get enough calcium to balance the phosphorus in the meat but Wysong says it is in the Call of the Wild. I add it anyway.

I also give him a probiotic and some kelp. I bought fish oil but he gets diarrhea from it. He is oil/fat sensitive so I gave that to my friend who helps.

I grind the carrots, beans, broccoli, celery. I keep the veggies separate from the meat and mix when I serve.

I use Call of the Wild by Wysong.net which is made for homemade diets

Bentley weighs 80 pounds and is served a total of 24 oz of pre-cooked food per day in two servings.He is eating 2% of his weight which is the standard...but one must customize that for the particular dog. It is a starting place. An 8 pound dog would eat 10% of that which appears to be 2.4 oz Seems like not much.

I use freeze dried trip and liver for treats (get them on Amazon).

Let me know if you need more help. I do not get reminders regularly so pm me if you wish.

I hope your little furbaby makes it comfortably for a long while.

Not sure how long Bentley has. There are days when I check his breathing a lot and other days I think he will be here for several more months. Both make me weep. He pants a lot more than he used to when upright but not when he is down.

I am sort of scattered today so pm me if you need more. Later today I will see if I can locate some of the sites I used when I was planning all this. I do know any dog I have in the future will eat homemade or raw.

Peace

Mary

[mfh]

I just found this in my email: I trust Whole Dog Journal- it is on homemade dog food

http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_6/features/Measuring-Nutritional-Value-in-Dog-Food_20542-1.html

[mfh]

As I said I was scattered today...

I forgot the following:

chinese cabbage

zuchini

peppers, yellow or red

sardine on top for a treat, water based

plain yogurt is a good probiotic

you can add:

wheat germ

flax seed MILLED only...like a powder

chicken, beef, turkey livers (one of these)

I only include 3-4 veggies at a time so I keep them separated in groups of 3-4.

I use an industrial grinder.

[kayc]

I am so glad you have shared this here. Mary (Kacy), I applaud your efforts, even as Mary (mfh) is caring for her Bentley. It's so important to do the best we can for these little (or not so little as in my Arlie) creatures. Mary (Kacy), you're in Oregon? My son graduated from OSU last year. I hope they can be of help to you.

[Kacy]

Mary - thank you so much for the information. I'm so glad that Bentley is still doing well on the diet. I know it is a lot of work, but I think it is worth it. As I said before, I feed my Cavaliers a raw diet so just grind up the vegetables and mix them in. Nothing is cooked. I used to cook oatmeal and add it in, which helped to warm the food, but I quit doing that mainly because the dogs were getting too chubby. I buy meat that is already ground with the bones left in.

The woman who runs the rescue that has the little Yorkie is feeding her just meat with broth and I think maybe some dry, but I'm not sure. She's only had her a few days, and I think she's just trying to keep her eating for now. The melanoma is on the side of her gum, so I'm sure it is uncomfortable for her to eat. She apparently is a very sweet dog - very alert and as active as any other 14 yr old dog. How long that will continue is anyone's guess. They are only giving her 4 - 6 months without treatment. The oncologist I contacted said they generally don't recommend chemo, but do use a fractionated radiation treatment that is supposedly easier on the dog because it is meant to reduce, but not eliminate the cancer.

The woman from the rescue group is undecided about even getting the consultation with the oncologist, although I'm not sure why. I don't like conventional treatment either but I think it is important to make sure of what is going on with the dog. Her regular vet said she didn't need to do a biopsy- that she can tell by looking at it that it is cancer. But what I read online states that it is important to do the biopsy. She has a lot of faith in this vet, who is relatively young and so, to me, not very experienced. She may be right, but then again if the oncologist says they need a biopsy, then maybe they need a biopsy (or maybe the oncologist is just trying to make more money!). Anyway, the woman wanted to talk to the regular vet again before deciding about the oncologist consultation. If nothing else, she is interested in a good diet for her and some supplements as well.

Thank you again, Mary!

Kay - I only wish it was Oregon, but it is Ohio! They have a great vet school but about a 2 - 2 1/2 hr drive for us. We switched to the cardiologist there after our ordeal with the local one with Allie's death. There is another oncologist at the same hospital closeby (where the old cardiologist is) and we may go there instead. I offered to help with the expenses of the consultation and the woman said she would like me to go to ask questions also. It will be hard to go back there - I'm sure it will bring back many bad memories.

I feel so badly for this little dog. I think she was loved in her former home but she was not well cared for. She apparently had fleas before the group got her and needed a bath. Her coat was all dry and flaky. The woman has been giving her fish oil and in just the short time she has been there, her coat is much better. She is fitting in very well with the other dogs there, although they are all big dogs and she is only 8 lbs. The woman said she is very sweet. I know it's going to be hard when they have to let her go, when that time arrives.

Mary

[kayc]

I hope they can do the biopsy so they know for sure what they are dealing with. I'm not surprised that a vet can spot cancer when it is quite pronounced, I've seen it and it's distinguishable.

[mfh]

UPDATE

I am making a change to Bentley's diet after reading up on a question I have had. Instead of cooking most of the veggies, I plan to puree them or chop them. I will first test him with these raw veggies (raw so as to retain nutrients). I WILL cook sweet potatoes and beets....that is generally accepted as essential.

So I will make up containers of veggies (3-4 in each) all pureed but raw.

I am learning.