Rae1991

Hi, thank you for sharing your story. Almost relationships are just as valid and hard to move on from as "official" relationships, and those feelings and connections you felt are real.

I would say try to keep things casual, friendly and light upon initial contact (if there is any). But yes, if you feel ready and up to it, do go back on the site and continue on as you normally would without the expectation she will contact you. You could reach out to her and ask how she has been, but if you feel it may evoke the same behavior you experienced during your first interaction with her not responding and you feeling a bit despondent, then I'd advise against it. You are probably right in that she was hiding her pregnancy based on the timeline you gave. Could have been out of embarrassment, her wanting to spare you from knowing she had met someone else, or her just being unsure of what to do/who to tell as a new single parent-to-be. Her decision not to tell you may not have had anything to do with you at all.

If by chance you do contact her, or she contacts you and you both want more again, be cautious and don't rush back into things as it seems she flaked previously, which considering the circumstances, is understandable. You're right that you owe her nothing. She probably assumed in the time since you've last spoken that you moved on (it seems like its been more than 2 years?) and lost interest in her so she didn't reach out. I would imagine that being a new parent her priorities changed since too. But you mentioned she's back on the site, so maybe things will be different this time if contact is made. The worst she could do is not respond to your messages, say "no," or you both realize the other isn't what you want/need in a partner.

Whatever you choose, I hope you get the answers you seek.

--Rae

On 2/18/2021 at 10:17 AM, kayc said:

Try not to be so hard on yourself.  Did it ever occur to you that she just isn't the one for you!  When George and I met and became friends, we eventually fell in love, the attraction was there inside and out and neither of us could picture life without the other!  That IS how it should be going into marriage!  That love carries you through the hard times. 

I second this wholeheartedly. I understand it's really hard not to take such rejection personally, but at some point, you have to accept she just isn't right for you. It took me over a year to feel fully ready, emotionally, to move forward from Joe. I tried to rush it by going on dates and being set up by friends. It just made me feel empty and worse off because all I did was compare them to him, never giving them a fair chance, because I wasn't ready and didn't want to date again, I did because I assumed it's just what everyone did.

These days, I would rather be friends first and then engage in dating if we both wanted to, but that does not mean I am going to close myself off to other potential suitors/living my life to wait around for one guy. There is a guy I do like now, but I am perfectly fine just being friends as he has some life things he needs to deal with that I do not want cast unto me, and we are both busy with our lives, and I do not want to get my hopes up or assume things between us. If we choose to only remain friends as time passes, that's okay too.

8 hours ago, BaxterBurg said:

Today I met a girl that my friend seems to want to try and set me up with. She was cute, but I already know I could never see a future with her. She's not even close to what my ex was.

Then don't bother with dating, and politely decline any invitation for the time being. It's not fair to her to be compared to someone who she will never be and to be given false hope that there is any potential between the two of you for more than casual friendship. If you're not ready to date again, or even just engage on a friendly level, don't. Don't rush yourself with things like this, you will find someone when you are ready to, regardless of your friends trying to set you up, ultimately, the choice to engage with these potential dates is yours and yours alone. Be kind to yourself the way you are to others. Everyone deserves kindness, including ourselves.

😊 Rae

On 2/7/2021 at 10:04 AM, BaxterBurg said:

Hey everyone, just wanted to give an update for anyone who's in the same boat.

I decided to reach out after 32 days of NC, and I know many people in my situation are always considering doing the same thing. Unlike others though, I genuinly wanted to stay in NC and hide. While I wouldn't tell you not to do the same, its only fair that you know whats at risk. In short, my progress has been set back significantly, and the physical pain and tears have returned. It is like reopening a wound.

I had rebuilt myself quite well before doing this, and I was decently happy/optimistic, but also deeply bothered by some of the things that occured between us after I was able to reflect. Some of it will actually scar me forever. Moreover, I was, and still am, convinced that if someone loses feelings for you, especially a month before breaking it off, no amount of NC would ever bring those feelings back.

Before leaving, she said she would be there for me if I needed to talk, but she kind of brushed me off saying something "significant" has happened since we last talked, she has a lot on her plate, and she just doesn't feel comfortable bringing up "that time" right now. I understand though, and I'm a bit worried for her. I don't think she's doing well.

Overall, the conversation was good, but I can't tell if she's just talking to me out of pity/guilt, which is kind of humiliating; might just be bthering her too. I kind of wish she had ignored me because that would have at least given me closure. But I guess thats something to consider if you do go back. Just going to leave her be, I need to focus on school at this point. 

Just a warning for those looking to end NC.

I am so sorry it set you back, but at least now you know where she stands and you understand fully that NC is truly the best option you have to move forward and find someone else who values you. I went through this with Tim, when his dad first died and he didn't respond to my messages for a week. Then for weeks after he said he didn't want to break up, he still didn't respond and the empty feeling of rejection and abandonment set in. I think that's why I ended up taking him back, because he created a void and then simultaneously claimed he was going to fill it, and all he did was make the void deeper, and I allowed it by resuming our relationship against my better judgement.

You mentioned in a previous post that you don't/didn't think you'll find anyone else, and that's why you felt so attached and desperate for her attention. I call that the "scarcity mindset," and a lot of people operate from that due to deep insecurity, I used to, too. It's the belief that you're not good enough, no one finds you attractive, that you're not desirable or lovable, so you'll chase after and settle for the first person that gives you the attention you crave, even if they've expressed little or no interest or treat you poorly. I won't say you'll grow out of it, because some never do, but it is something you need to actively be aware of and working on over time. Mental and emotional health are not static, they need to be regularly assessed and worked on like a car.

Leave her be, go back to your life and continue to be who you are, being single or alone isn't a curse, but a gift. Use this time to work on becoming better and happier. The best revenge after all, is being fulfilled, happy and whole.

--Rae

As far as the advice goes on red flags, I will post articles and video links because they can explain it in a way that is more concise and relatable than I could. There's also thousands of others available. Mind you, take this advice with a grain of salt as there are variances and some dating advice is just bad, and being able to see this behavior is a good way to spot these in yourself as well so you can work on them and improve yourself. Remember dating is a lot of trial and error, stop putting so much energy into and pressure on yourself and your dates. If they're not what you want, or vice versa, don't take it personally. Just keep on. Learn to just enjoy the date/conversation for what it is without the expectation that it will turn into a relationship. You're not supposed to date every person you meet. Just enjoy your life, have hobbies, join classes, join gyms, do things you've wanted to do, work on yourself and you will find people with similar interests and widen your dating pool. Don't take rejection personally, think of it as a redirect. You're not right for everyone because you're not supposed to be. Have confidence, know who you are and what you want from a partner and relationship:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/dating-red-flags-guide-avoid-psychology-power-tinder-dates-secrets-a8849541.html

https://www.self.com/story/relationship-red-flags-never-ignore

https://firstthings.org/8-warning-signs-of-unhealthy-dating-relationships/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/millennial-media/201312/13-dating-red-flags-women Even though it says "women," many of these are universal to dating in general

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGsG6HyZLuk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QuDIvOL0Ac

As I mentioned, even if the video/post specifies a certain gender, it's pretty universal advice for anyone dating.

2 hours ago, BaxterBurg said:

Hello Rae, I really appreciate you reading and responding to my post.

I have read your story a few times on here, and I'm very sorry you had to go though that. It makes me thankful that she didn't do something that drastic. Although, maybe it would have been easier if she just left cmpletetly. It seemd that she desperatly wanted space away from me but wouldn't ask for it; she didn't want to be "that girl" that just throws their ex to the curb, and leaves and doesn't give answers after a break up. But you're story has given me a lot to think about regarding second chances. I can't ever see the spark coming bck after all thats happened, there just too many bad memories. We had maybe a month or two of being bf/gf but still limited by covid. At this point, there been much more bad than good, and who knows how long thie fallout will last, I'm still hurting. I hate to say that my first love experience has been the worst few months of my life. And I think she has some serious issues that she needs to deal with, I could see her maybe breaking up with me twice. 

You're 100% right, and I did reach my breaking point as you maybe read earlier. I left with some possibly harsh words towards her, saying that if she wants this to work then thts up to her. I've done all I can at this point and we need some time apart because she needs to heal. I said some other things that maybe were too bold but I felt that I had to push her away somewhat to save myelf. I was getting so angry with her after she wouldn't even give me a yes or no answer on doing something with me. It felt like a f*** you despite me just helping her with school and being there for her.

hmm I'v been thinking about this a lot recently. She stayed in a relationship with an ex who negelected her for 3 years because she didnt want to be lonely and because they had "chemistry". I also have a feeling that something bad was going on there, but she never told me. Even after our break up I asked why she stayed for so long, and she went into a long story about how awful he was, and she still said that our relationship put it into perpspective on what a relationship should be like.

But she seemingly came from a very nice home. I met her family and they seemed very nice. She was very close with them, and they often worked as a single unit through everything. 

My ex also seemed to be deeply insecure, I'm not sure why. She started posting selfies like crazy afer we broke up. Maybe it was because of the last relationship she was in. I have a feeling shes dealing with a deep conflict within herself: she dated this guy for 3 years who was awful, but then she meets someone who supposidly "made her realize what she wanted in a relationship" and the relationship lasts 5 months. She always had a complex about "being like the ther girls" who drop good guys--now she did it herself. She even said there ws no reason she wouldn't want to be with me, she never said I did anything wrong. She was actually overly thankful towards me to the point that it didn't seem genuine and because of guilt.

I'll keep this in mind. I just honestly can't wrap my head around this behaviour. She has already apologized for me "being put in the middle of all this" and she wanted friendship right after the break up, so I'm thankful for that at least. But the closure aspect I don't think I will ever get. You re right, that closure will only come fromy myself.

 

 

You seem to be about the age I was when Joe (my first boyfriend ever, and ex before I dated Tim) and I broke up, I was 21 and he was 25, we were engaged, living together and had been together since I was 14. Joe cheated for a year before finally deciding to tell me "he loved me, but liked her..." he left me for a 16 year old girl. In 2016, about 3 months after things ended for good between Tim and I, and I was leaving the city to move for work, he finally apologized for how he treated me. Joe explained that had he met me now (2016) he would've been able to commit and marry me because he had grown up a bit, dated around and gotten 'it' out of his system. He too asked to reconcile and try again. We had been broken up at that point for almost 4 years and had no contact. I feel the only reason Joe did this was because he was lonely and felt guilty, as that girl he cheated with and left me for did exactly that to him some time later. By then I wanted none of his apologies and no longer cared, I refused his offer to reconcile and don't regret it one bit, even to this day. We grew apart as we got older, we were right for a time, but what I wanted changed and he was no longer it.

I remember Tim telling me, early on in 2016, that if his dad hadn't died, we would've stayed together. I don't believe that because we were fundamentally incompatible, there were glaring red flags and character flaws, and he treated me, my goals and career aspirations as a competitor rather than a partner, and I started to understand and recognize that in the months after things ended. Tim was great on paper, but in real life he was an emotionally unavailable workaholic who was given a job through nepotism, lazy, unambitious and had no desire to move forward in his life or do anything different. I had just graduated school, had travel and career plans, and was already looking for jobs in other states.

I say all that to say: This does not last, and in time you will begin to recognize (as you're already doing) the character flaws and incompatibility between the two of you. I read Selena's post and agree as well, your ex has severe communication issues and she is insecure on a level that is too deep for you to help with. She needs to fix those issues herself, it's not your job to do that. She seems young and is still figuring out her own identity, I used to say/believe "Im not like other girls" to be appealing to men and to try and be different; but to be honest, that's just a backhand insult to yourself and one that women often hear from men to make them feel special. It's not a compliment at all.

It sounds like she wanted friendship to assuage the guilt she feels and to keep you around to boost her self esteem, not because she actually wanted to maintain a real friendship. You said she stayed with an ex who neglected her, that's common. She lacks the self-awareness to understand why she's drawn to and stays with guys like that, and I am sure with time and therapy she will hopefully recognize that these men do no change their ways and that no good comes from staying. She is self-sabotaging and that comes from insecurity and naivety, both are common in your teens and 20s, but she needs to do the work to practice better lifestyle and coping habits (as do most people as they age). She may have thought she was ready to be in a relationship "that defined what relationships should be" but her inability to deal with her own problems, self-sabotaging/fulfilling prophecies, lack of trust and deep insecurity can dismantle even the best relationships. Despite it only being a few months, it sounds like that is partially what happened, her grief simply expedited these issues coming to head in time.

😊 Rae

On 12/27/2020 at 12:34 PM, BaxterBurg said:

I tend to beleive this too, but i'm not sure. I hope this is the case for both of us. I guess I will find out at our meeting in a month or two. She said herself she has no reason to not want to be with me; but again, who knows if its true or if theyre just sparing feelings. a situation like this can really just drive you crazy if you let it. I hope we arn't giving our ex's too much credit with how good they really are. Some people I talk to seem to think my ex was awful for how she dealt with everything; and others are more understanding but still put off by some of the things she said to me. It seems with every action theres stwo ways you could interpret it. Her not gtting back to me on the movie for example seems like she wants nothing to do with me anymore; or its because shes so consumed by her grief still that it slipped her mind etc. Genuinly feels like a nightmare.

 

She is sending mixed signals, plain and simple. She is confused and unsure of what she wants, and she's bringing you into her confusion, even if unintentionally. Have you ever heard the saying "misery loves company?" Well, so does confusion. That's not fair to you. While her intent may not be malicious, it still affects you in a negative way and keeps you holding onto the hope that she may get back together in the future. If she chooses not to resume the relationship, it will only crush you all over again. I know this from experience.

5 years ago, my then boyfriend of about 18 months Tim (I know it says 14 months in previous threads, but I realize now that was an error on my part) left me abruptly when his dad died. He didn't even tell me, he just stopped returning my calls. A week went by before I just went to his house and asked him what happened. He then told me, but explained he just needed alone time and that he didn't want to break up and that he just needed a few days to himself. "A few days" turned into 3 months. By then I was just as confused and had come to the conclusion our relationship was over so I had started the process of moving forward. Then he came back, apologized and said he wanted to reconcile, and I believed him because I was still in love with him. Things went fine for about 3 months before he disappeared a second time. No explanation, not even a word. By then I was just done and had nothing to say, but it still hurt all over again. Never let someone tell you they don't want you twice.

I say this to say, your feelings of being "done" and your gut that she's waffling and uncertain, are 100% valid. Trust your gut. I knew deep down that Tim and I's relationship wasn't going to go further, but I let my heart override my intuition. On certain things yes, you should follow your heart, but when a person has given you a million and 1 reasons to believe their behavior does not align with their words, and that you should be "done," you need to trust it. Also, she broke up with you. Why would you want to continue begging someone to love you after they already made it clear they don't want you? Especially now that she's jerking you around emotionally because she is confused. You said it yourself, you feel "done," tapped out and exhausted, that's your body and mind telling you what your heart doesn't want to accept. I have come to realize that often, grief reveals holes and red flags in a relationship we were blinded to, and it simply expedites the end of a relationship that already had an expiry date.

 Yes, her grief may be a factor in her current behavior, however, people know what they're doing; you cannot blame her actions completely on naivety and external factors. After a certain point, her behavior is a deliberate choice and grief is an excuse. If you read my thread from a few years ago, you can see that I used the deaths of my grandfather and best friend as an excuse to abandon my relationship and spend months laying in bed neglecting every aspect of my life. Yes, I was depressed, however, my behavior toward my boyfriend and refusal to seek help was inexcusable after a certain point. My reaction to grief was also a symptom of much deeper issues I refused to confront that had nothing to do with the grief itself. I have come to realize these intense reactions and abandonment of partners and destructive behavior, are symptoms of deeper problems. Tim had them too, as I found out from his family after the fact that he had "dumped" previous girlfriends in similar ways, had issues with women, was deeply insecure and had fractured relationships with both parents due to ongoing emotional abuse and abandonment growing up.

Tims family was extremely upset with him after I told them how he behaved toward me, they apologized on his behalf, and they shouldn't have had to because it wasn't their fault. I also came to the realization that despite how I would have treated him in this situation, you can't expect the same decency from everyone, and that you need to disabuse yourself from the notion that they owe you closure, apologies, friendship or reconciliation. If you operate from the belief you are owed these things from others, you will never move forward. I had to create my own closure from both of my previous long-term relationships because neither of them were ever going to close that wound. Even if they had given me explanations, would they have been enough? Nope. I would still have more questions and my heart would still hurt. The person that broke your heart cannot be the one to fix it.

😊 Rae

First, I am sorry this has happened to you. If you read through most other stories, they are similar when a partner is dealing with grief, mine was. My ex-boyfriend of nearly 2 years blindsided me after his father died. He didn't actually break-up with me, he just disappeared and then came back 3 months later. That was 4.5 years ago and we haven't spoken since. I am grateful he left, it allowed me to move forward with my life, move to a new city and realize that my need for relationships and the guys I was dating, was not coming from a healthy place.

First I will tell you, do not reach out to him. Focus on YOU. Continuing to contact him for no reason may be seen as pressure and might make him resent you. My ex told me he loved me and didn't want to break up, then disappeared for 3 months before asking to get back together. I stopped contacting him and started moving forward as best I could. As your friend suggested above, if he wants to contact you, he will. It is good that you removed him from social media and your email contacts. Now, go hang out with friends or family, join classes, if you're in school focus on that, go back to your hobbies, learn new ones. Go back to your life. Do not try to be hovering and waiting in the wings for him on the hope he will come back. From the sounds of it, you were only together for 3-4 months, if he knows you're waiting around for him, he may take that in a different way than you intend and it may not be good. While time spent may not be telling his feelings, it's clear he felt he's incapable of having a relationship while grieving. This grief could last months or years, he may never be the same as he was before. They don't wait for us, there's no reason to wait for them.

He broke up with you. So take it for what it is, and until HE makes a move to get back together, the only thing you should be doing is focusing on YOURSELF. IF he ever does make the move to get back together, don't just go back to normal. You need to remember how he left, assess whether or not a relationship with a person who will leave you when life gets tough is someone you actually want to be with and if he is a person you can depend on. Do not allow yourself to be a man's convenience and allow the whole relationship to be about what he wants. What about you and your feelings? They matter and are just as valid as his. While his intentions may not be from a malicious place, would you tell your friends to wait around for a guy who dumped them, but made empty promises that "one day" you'll get together again? I certainly wouldn't.

The 'One Day Wager' is a dangerous notion. That One Day they'll be the person you want, or commit, or be with you, or marry you, or do all the things they said they would in the beginning, but often that one day never comes and you're left with regret and wondering why you spent so much time with them knowing it was just empty promises and pretty words.

On 8/16/2020 at 12:13 AM, NumbJ said:

I was angry at first. Didn’t understand why it took him so long to figure it out what he needed. Why he reassured me so many times that I shouldn’t worry, he was just figuring himself out. I felt so blindsided. I also didn’t understand why he didn’t express the desire to revisit us after he took the space he needed. Not that I would be waiting around but to at least say if he reached out, please hear him out. I asked him why he didn’t say that and all he said was I understand and I’m sorry. Said he still cares deeply for me. 

This right here is enough to know that he is confused, doesn't know what he wants and is in no shape to be in a relationship. Do not pursue it further. Until he is ready (and he may never be) to explain himself to you, there's no reason to continue trying to reason with him. His mind has been made. I am sorry.

It sounds like his life has gone through some serious transitions the last year, from being homeless and jobless to losing his father and the relationship with his mother. He may just not know how to process all these changes at once and needs time alone to figure it out, which is valid. After I left my ex behind for good and moved away, I started going to therapy and needed time to readjust and deal with my feelings and figure out why I felt as I did. Don't take it personally. It's not you, it's him. However I will say that your need of him to tell you everything all at once sounds like a bit much and can be misconstrued as pressure and he may not have had the answers himself to give you.

On 8/16/2020 at 12:13 AM, NumbJ said:

The next day, I called him to chat and he broke up with me. Said he needed to be alone to get a handle on all his grief and issues with his mom. Needed to process through the stress of not having a place to live or a job. Said that he couldn’t bridge respectfully caring for me and having romantic sexual feelings (something we had discussed before and decided that it was just due to timing. We had started off strongly with romantic feelings, then came to deeply care for each other and just needed to bridge the two. It had clicked for me once we normalized talking everyday after he left but not for him apparently). He also said that he was putting caring for me above taking care of himself. And that he needed to be selfish and not ignore himself just because he didn’t want to hurt me. And that he didn’t have the tools to be in a relationship. Said he thought my presence would fix him because he was so happy with me but he needed to fix himself.

He didn't have the tools to be in a relationship

That right there says it all, as does this paragraph. Let him go. All love is not good love. Staying with him will only invite confusion into your life, as he is clearly at a crossroads in his and doesn't know what to do. It doesn't make him a bad person, he's just at a point in his life where he's assessing what's best for himself and figuring out how to care for himself and his needs, which we all need to do to be successful adults. I am sorry your relationship became a casualty of it, but it is what it is. Also again, you were only together 3-4 months, so in all honesty, neither of you had an obligation to commit, and things unfortunately changed for him. Sometimes it just happens. It's happened to me. A guy I dated for 3 months said the same thing, that our relationship was a priority to him, then one day just decided he didn't want to date me anymore because I wouldn't let him be my "fitness trainer." Trust me, it wasn't a loss on my end, the guy turned out to be both a liar and a loser.

Be glad he broke it off now rather than in a year or two when you're fully committed, living together and/or deeper in with him. Maybe at some point in the future, your paths will cross again and you'll both be ready. But that may not happen, don't bank on it. Take your own advice and do not wait around. You'll come out the other side of this stronger and better off. You don't need him. You were a whole person with a life before him, and life will go on after him and you'll still be whole.

 Rae

7 hours ago, kayc said:

Hi, I am sorry you find yourself in this situation, through no fault of your own.  I don't know if you've read other threads in this section, but I have read and responded to all of them since this was created many years ago, and one thing I notice is a pattern (I'm a numbers/statistics/patterns person...I believe they tell us something, although where you see it you may see an exception...still, patterns speak a story).  What I have gotten from all of this is that there are a certain percentage of grievers that do not feel able to do a relationship while they are grieving.  As us grievers here realize, grief has a beginning, but not necessarily an ending.  It evolves over the course of our grief journey.  We love and miss that person/animal until the day we die, although we gradually begin to adjust to the changes it means to our lives.  Some people do not adjust very well, however, as it takes great effort on our parts as grievers, just at a time when we feel void of being able to do so.  We are very individual in how we handle it.  

Having said that, it sounds like your GF, or XGF, is one of those who is unable to do a relationship while grieving.  And when that happens, the likelihood of the person returning to the relationship as it was is extremely slim.  I recall one who made it through intact out of the hundreds who have told their story here.  I am one of these, I lost my fiance of a year when his mom was dying.  We had no contact for months, which allowed me time for healing and clarity, and when we resumed contact, he was obviously very conflicted and confused, not knowing his own mind, which was yanking me around all over the place, emotionally.  I realized this and guarded my heart, so rather than taking him seriously, which he had shown me I could not, I listened and let it go...rather than hanging on every word like he meant it...for he had no follow through or consistency with his words.  We were able to emerge as friends and are to this day, ten years later.  I had to realize the relationship as it was, was gone.  That was for my health and his, for we could not be friends while one of us was secretly hoping for something more, that could easily lead to manipulation, which would never work.  Nor would it be good to put my life on hold, waiting on the sidelines indefinitely.  I have not dated since, I'm nearly 68 and have been through much in my life, and I'm just kind of done with all of the letdowns and heartbreak...I figure if God has someone for me He is perfectly capable of bringing him into my life and if or when that happens, I will know.  So far, nada.    And that's okay too.  I've been alone a lot of years, I'm rather used to it, even if it never was my preference.

My advice is to give yourself priority, be your own best friend.  What would you tell your best friend in this situation?  Tell yourself that.  Spend time with family, friends, activities...I know, hard during the pandemic, but as much as possible.  Work on yourself and building your life.  But give her the space she needs to figure things out for herself.  

You are guilty of nothing.  She is for all intent and purposes gone.  The relationship as you knew it, gone with her grief.  It's not her fault, it's not your fault, it just is, a casualty of grief.

No one can tell you what you should do or feel, but I encourage you to read the other threads, the more you do, the more you'll see you are not at all alone in what you are going through.  I would venture to say this is a classic grief response for some.  Grief changes us, we are not the same for having encountered it...I have had much loss/grief in my life, the hardest being my beloved husband 15 years ago, the other hardest my sweet and loyal companion dog, 11 months ago, followed by the death of my 25 year old cat.  I mourn still and realize I will the rest of my life.  I allow myself to smile, to enjoy life, but deep inside I continue to miss those I've loved and lost, I have learned to coexist with my grief.

It can take professional grief counseling to make one's way through this.  Is she getting any help?  Even a grief support group might be helpful just so she realizes she's not alone in how she feels.

http://www.griefhealingblog.com/2014/08/grief-understanding-process.html
http://www.griefhealing.com/column-helping-another-in-grief.htm
https://www.gq.com/story/how-to-support-your-partner-through-grief

I want to mention, you can only be there for someone as much as they will allow you to.  You can do everything perfectly, give her needed space, wait the rest of your life...with no return.  This is unfair and unrealistic for you.  I highly recommend a no contact period of a few months to allow yourself a chance to heal, for you are also grieving, and to gain some clarity.

I do NOT feel she is testing you!  When they are grieving they have nothing within themselves to give to a relationship.  That explains why she can be with friends, etc. but not you.  Grievers can view a relationship as stress, feel guilty they aren't able to give anything to you or the relationship, so they retreat.  This is very common.  They often do not realize what they're doing or understand it themselves.  We can tell them we'll give them space, they will take it regardless, not to return to previous status.  I wish I had something more optimistic to report, I hope you're the big exception but I don't see it in the cards.

She is taking care of HER needs, please take care to do the same for YOUR needs.  Wishing you comfort and peace going forward...

I echo everything Kayc has said here. I can vouch for all of this, as I have been both the griever and the dumpee of the griever.

My ex-fiance, Joe, almost left me (as he was right to do) after I had lost both my grandfather and best friend in the span of a year. I abandoned our relationship, emotionally and otherwise because I didn't know what else to do. I was hurt, confused, lost and severely depressed, and everything else in my life fell by the wayside. I almost lost my job, twice, because I couldn't focus, was constantly distracted or would call-in multiple times a week. I also dropped out of school for the semester because I started not showing up to class. But I tried to maintain in front of my friends because I didn't want them to know how broken and hopeless I felt inside. Joe expressed the same confusion, hopelessness, anger and hurt that you are. It is all 100% valid and you are right to feel that way, as she has in a way abandon you, and it is a difficult pill to swallow. He gave me an ultimatum (which I do not recommend you do, its just what he did as an absolute last resort because again, he was trying to hold on and salvage the ship, I wasn't, but I wasn't ready to let him go. I was just being horrendously selfish, hurtful and terrible to him, even if it wasn't intentional), and basically said that until I go to therapy and address my problems, we were effectively over. I was resentful of him at first, because I felt betrayed, like he was abandoning me when I needed him and that he didn't understand my pain. When really, I had already abandoned him and us, and was just leading him into darkness with no intention of ever finding the light and was careless towards the pain I was causing him, because I had retreated inward, and only my feelings and hurt mattered. I started going to therapy to address my underlying issues that my grief had brought to the surface, along with the grief itself. We stayed together for a couple more years, but it irreparably damaged our relationship and Joe admitted that even after I had started to seem normal again (about a year later) he still felt mistrust, resentment and as if he'd done something wrong.

My bf of 14 months, Tim left me suddenly after his dad died. Not a word, text or even to tell me his dad had died. His brother told me. He didn't respond to my calls or texts until I tracked him down and made him tell me why I hadn't heard from him in over a week. He said he was sorry, he loved me and didn't want to break up, but that he just needed a few days to be alone. Then I didn't hear from him for 3 months. I concluded our relationship was over, and as heartbroken as I was, began to move forward. He then sends me a text, 3 months later explaining that he went on auto-pilot, got severely depressed and the days just blurred together and he buried himself in work and his friends hoping it would lessen his grief. He asked if id be open to reconciling. I was skeptical, hurt, untrusting and resentful of the pain he caused, but agreed because I was still in love with him and was hopeful he'd come back and we could move forward. Another few months passed and things seemed to be getting better, until one day he told me he loved me as we left his apartment to go to work, he then stood me up for dinner later that night and we haven't spoken since. That was 4.5 years ago. My life is completely different now, I am different and I have learned to focus on myself and my needs instead of constantly being a giver and a pleaser, trying to fix others, and holding onto empty promises and sweet nothings. I haven't been in a relationship since and I have done more with my life and time than I ever thought I could, and its given me the clarity, peace and self-reliance I used to believe a relationship would. So in a way, I am grateful for the silver lining my experiences have given me.

It's not you, it's them. I cannot stress this enough. I know it is extremely hard not to take personally, because you watch the person you love, your relationship, and yourself become unrecognizable in the process of trying to hold on, help them, hoping it will work out and yearning for them to come back. But even if physically they are present, mentally they are not and you are all but invisible to them, and you're left sitting, waiting, hoping that eventually they'll see you again. It hurts. It's not fair.

I echo what Kayc has said about doing whats best for yourself and focusing on you, and giving her the time and space you both need. Even if it means you aren't a couple. You cannot sacrifice of yourself to keep someone else warm, you'll be left a smoldering pile of ash, while they are still whole. You can only be there for someone as much as they'll allow you to be, and I think that is the most painful realization of all. No amount of love and sacrifice will keep her in a place she no longer feels she can be.

I have come to the realization that this behavior often echoes that of a toddler at times. They're seemingly always well-behaved around their grandparents, your coworkers, their teachers, in public, etc. But at home, they throw tantrums, won't eat their food, act out and are generally inconsolable, and it leads you to question yourself as a parent regularly. They let their guards down to those they feel most comfortable with, just like in your case with her friends and her kids, she's seemingly normal, but with you, she makes it known she's deeply hurting, confused and isn't really even cognizant of how cold and out of character she's behaving toward you, and you're exhausting yourself trying console, love and offer her comfort, but she refuses it. Just as it's not the parents fault for their toddlers lack of impulse control or emotional outbursts, her behavior toward you is not yours, you did nothing wrong and you don't deserve it. But unlike parents and children, you don't have to further subject yourself to her hurtful, indifferent behavior when you feel it's time to say "enough."

Might be a bit of a poor analogy, but it made sense in my head.

"About loving unconditionally, there is no contradiction between that and walking away. You walk away, not just to avoid hurt, but because it's the right thing to do for him. Walking away is, in its own way, an act of love." - Ron B. From a reply in the thread by Miri, Page 3.

--Rae 

2 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

Rae, if my ex's dad weren't still with us, I'd think you and I dated the same person. 

It's disheartening, and in some cases, damaging to one's self esteem to be on the receiving end of an "I love you" that carries with it no responsibility to the recipient. It can make us feel like we don't matter enough to be considered a person of value. Like we're not important enough for someone to put in the work that's required in love. The hard part of moving on, not allowing for second chances, and getting over the pain of lost love, is knowing that at any moment, they may decide to love bomb you. When he and I first decided to put an end to things, I was desperately clinging to the idea that we may reconcile. Now I'm dreading him broaching the subject after he feels "like himself" again, because I'm afraid of how I might react. I just need to be strong, continue to write, continue with my therapy, and find my own worth through overcoming my own grief.

Yep. Many people have dated "this person." And you are correct that their damage damages others. Hurt people, hurt people. And yes, the most important things you can do is remember who the f*** you are, and that you had a life before him, and will after him, without his participation or permission. You're an individual and that should never be compromised by or for a relationship. Ironically, the last time I talked to Tim was when we were leaving his apartment to head to work, and he told me he loved me....then stood me up later that night, and I ended the relationship the next day. 2 months later I accepted a job in another state and left.

That damage left by them can be healed, but its your job to do that and ensure that if/when you come across another person like this (because they are everywhere, so you inevitably will) that you are able to recognize these signs and walk away before getting involved. Part of the reason I ended up dating guys like Tim was because I was failing to recognize that my damage matched their damage and it was comforting to get involved with people who needed me because I didn't understand that the only person I really needed to fix, was myself. Chaos was attractive because I didn't have to deal with my own problems when constantly surrounded by everyone else's. Therapy and finding positive outlets to express yourself are the best ways to move forward. Rediscovering old hobbies, or finding new ones, joining groups, etc are great ways to heal and get to a place you need to be, and along the way you'll find things and meet people you wouldn't have otherwise. Its not really about "getting to where you were before him," as often that person is probably toxic or needs therapy. But becoming someone better by learning from your experiences, failures and mistakes. When people fail to learn from their past experiences or mistakes, they inevitably end up repeating them and falling into a cycle of dating the same people with different faces, or staying in a job they hate and wondering why they're so unhappy.

Misery loves company, but so does confusion. It seems your now ex was both, and does not know what a healthy relationship looks like, nor has he made an effort to confront, discover or fix the parts of himself that are unavailable. I am certain that if you could find his relationship history, he'd probably have a number of fractured, stunted and unhealthy relationships, both romantic and familial. People aren't born this way, they're made.

 Rae

Edited to add: This guy is doing what I've learned to call a "Temperature Check." Putting the feelers out there with a seemingly innocent "hey how are you?" and seeing what your temperature is: warm and receptive to his "friendliness" aka low-key bootycall, or scalding hot, indifferent and unwelcome.

Be the latter. When he comes around for his "temperature checks," do yourself a favor and burn him. If you remain receptive and lukewarm to his "textual advances," they will not stop because now he knows you still have a weak spot he can weasel his way into with words. Don't let him. You wouldn't put your hand on a hot stove repeatedly would you? In this case, the hand is his and you are the hot stove he needs to step away from to avoid being burned.

If he truly missed you, he'd be consistent and apologetic and his actions would align with his behavior and words, but not so overzealous like he's being pushy. He just wants to know he has someone to run to incase another one of his relationships inevitably goes south and he needs a cushion to soften the blow again.

On 5/13/2020 at 6:55 PM, ipswitch said:

I think his loss precipitated something that may have happened anyway.  Maintaining friendships isn't like maintaining a love relationship, and when push came to shove, he just didn't have anything to give at this point. Maybe better now than five year from now, you're legally committed to one another, and he emotionally bails out of the relationship.

Your trust issues are yours to work out. What you're describing though, is not that. If what you described is accurate, I don't think you were being selfish at all.  In some ways, the why doesn't matter so much. He has emotionally withdrawn. The two of you are in different places. You are ready, willing and able (it sounds like!) to make a life with someone. He's not.

 

This is absolutely true. As with both my two previous committed/long-term relationships, one where I was the griever (though we didn't break up, my behavior damaged our relationship), and then later the dumpee of a griever. These emotional, trust and self-esteem problems were long-standing, only buried and brought to the surface when the hardship of grief exposed them.

1 hour ago, CygnusX1 said:

This is incredibly true and insightful, and something I've learned from my own experience which is quite similar to Bubble's. I do think that grief can become a barrier, but I think it can also be a catalyst that brings about a reaction to underlying issues that lay dormant. 

Whatever the reason, the fact remains that if he's not ready and willing to give to a relationship for any reason, and you are, then it's clear you're in two different places. It's okay to ask for some clarity as to what you're being patient for when you're partner is grieving and asking for space. I believe that if they love you, they'll be able to tell you that your efforts won't be in vain. If that question cannot be answered, then perhaps it's best to let them go.

It was absolutely a barrier, and definitely becomes one when one party emotionally checks out and/or can only go so far in a relationship before their pattern of previous behaviors, such as emotional unavailability or fear of abandonment become apparent and the relationship comes to a halt. Often, grief is simply a way of exposing problems that would have surfaced eventually, even without the addition of grief. My ex Tim told me that if his dad hadn't passed away, we would have stayed together, but looking back in the months after our breakup, that was untrue. His grief and reaction to it simply expedited the breakup in a relationship that already had an expiration date.

 Rae

On 6/30/2020 at 6:46 PM, Kieron said:

I'm sorry to say this but he's manipulating you.  I would recommend changing your phone number.  Don't leave the door open to let him continue disturbing the peace you have begun to make in your heart.

I absolutely agree with this.

On 7/1/2020 at 12:13 AM, ipswitch said:

I wouldn't change my phone number, but I'd stop responding. I think he's casting about for a booty call.  I was in a kind of 'friends with benefits' relationship at one point. I can tell you what someone told me: the person who cares the least about the relationship has the most power.  Your sweetie seems to take the path of least resistance: look what he did: maintained a relationship with one of his three exes. With that many exes, did it occur to you that he didn't spend any time between relationships to examine what had gone wrong?

Then he got involved with a married woman. (Imagine Dana Carvey as the Church Lady, snidely commenting, "Isn't that convenient?") You had children, a husband, a home of your own, you hadn't filed or discussed separating, so of course you weren't as available as a single woman. It's a perfect situation for a fellow who never drives the tent stakes in very far. He didn't have to be 'all in' because you weren't. You weren't, because you were married.  

I'm not judging, because I've been where you were - and honestly - my consort at the time said we could never plan a future together because we started out relationship cheating on our partners and trust would always be an issue. 

I'm not sure your sweetie is ill-intended.  If he isn't that, he sounds sort of emotionally lazy.  Maybe he has some value as a friend that isn't obvious is your story about him here. Retaining you as a friend would be good for HIS self esteem as he could tell himself he didn't hurt you that badly if you forgave him. You can forgive him (that's good for YOU) but you don't have to continue to engage with him.

I also agree with this, except that you probably should change your number if his texts bother you this much. This man is emotionally lazy, manipulative and fishing to see if anyone he casts a signal at will be receptive. He's clearly done this before, as you've explained more than once in your posts from last year. He does not deserve another moment of your headspace or time.

And absolutely YES, his attempts to retain you as a friend are absolutely an ego boost for him, if it wasn't, why would he still have close personal relationships with any of his exes? Especially when he knows any one of them would come running to his call. Seems like the woman he left you for Chlor, did exactly that and I am sure the one before her did too. If he knew none of you would respond positively to his "friendly text check-ins" he wouldn't try to maintain contact with you or "check-in."

And yeah, with little downtime between his relationships and them all ending in similar ways, the common denominator here IS HIM and his PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR. Now it's a character flaw, not just a mistake. This guy pretty clearly knows what he's doing and has no plans to change his ways.

Forgive him for your own sake, change your number and forget him. He adds no value to your life, only an invitation to join him in his confusion. Do yourself a favor and politely decline his invitation. Tim tried this too, and I fell for it. Don't give this man that satisfaction.

 Rae

On 7/18/2020 at 11:11 AM, CygnusX1 said:

Kayc, thank you for your words. And thank you for always being such a rational voice on this forum. I’ve been perusing it for a bit and you always have amazing insights.

Things are pretty much officially done with him now. His interpretation of what it means to love someone is quite different from mine, and it’s evident that he doesn’t see “love” as a verb, rather as a self-serving feeling that doesn’t actually entail any responsibility to the person it’s being said to. And that’s not good enough for me. “I love how you make me feel...” is not the same as saying “I am taking responsibility for making sure that your needs are addressed and you feel seen and understood and safe, and I am committed to you.” He’d said that even before his grief, he’d felt like things were moving too quickly, and I called him out for never having said anything and making me feel like we might have actually been on the same page all along. He apologized for not knowing how to articulate it until it was too late. But it’s beyond that. If you feel something is wrong, you communicate that something feels off, and you allow the chance to figure it out and work through it. You don’t just continue business as usual. 
Love is not just a set of feelings and emotions. It’s a commitment to communicate with the other and meet them where they are. 
Anyway, I’m incredibly sad, but mostly because I’m missing the early stages of things when he and I felt connected. I don’t think I miss him for who he is to me now. He said things to me before his loss that made me believe we were headed in one direction, but it’s clear that his grief wasn’t the only barrier that befell us. There were fundamental issues that never had the chance to be addressed because he decided not to communicate. 
I told him that if he feels in the future that he wants to try again, that we can cross that bridge if we come to it. But I’m not going to hold out hope. 
I deleted my entire text conversation with him. All 8,400 messages. Every message that professed love, every message that talked about his excitement for the future (which I call into question after he’s now told me that he felt pressured to “define” things and that we were moving too fast and blah blah blah). I don’t want to erase him, but I don’t want to have something to look back on and trick myself into longing for. Even having good memories of him feels painful right now.

This is exactly how I felt when my boyfriend of 2 years left me without explanation in late 2015 after his father suddenly died. He then tried to work things out three months later in 2016, only to disappear again. I cut contact with him after that, haven't spoken to him since and have moved forward.

I realized in the months after the same things you have, that for him, love was not a verb, but a self-serving feeling that he didn't feel any responsibility for saying to another person. It was devastating to me because he seemed loving and like any regular great boyfriend should be. But looking back, I realized later that our relationship was not going to move forward. He never wanted to travel with me if it was more than 2 hours away by car and I am a person who enjoys exploring and adventure. I was a semester away from college graduation when we started dating, after having studied abroad and visiting the neighboring countries and learning how to travel alone. I was new in my career and it seemed like every time I hit a milestone at my job, we'd celebrate, and then he'd try to "one up" me with his accomplishments. I had also come to the realization that if I had accepted one of the jobs I was applying for in other states, he would not have moved with me so we would've broken up anyways.

I, like you, was open to trying again after the first time, even though I should not have been after learning from his brother, who introduced us, that he's done similar things before and has some deep seated insecurities and emotional problems he hadn't ever resolved due to a turbulent relationship with his parents, many of which he brought into his relationships. The way he behaved started to make sense after learning this, though it was not an excuse. We talked about the future in the same way and he said a lot of the same things your bf has. I didn't want to erase him at first because I was still in love with him, but I realized after he left me the second time that I allowed him to do it again because I still longed for him and didn't remove him from my social media or my phone when I should have. I also empathized with him because a few years earlier I had lost my grandfather and best friend within a year and my relationship at the time suffered immensely because of it.

In the 5 years since, I have moved to a different state, traveled extensively and am actually planning a more permanent international move once I complete my Masters. Learn from this experience, even if you do end up getting back together in the future, don't allow yourself to just fall back into it and let things go back to normal unless you can see he's addressing his problems appropriately and has made tangible growth in his life. I am dating, but more so just focusing on my life and what I want it to be, rather than trying to mold my life around a relationship.

You're making great progress, don't allow his attempts to reach out and "check in" stop you from moving forward without him. They don't wait for us, there's no reason to do that for them.

 Rae

On 10/24/2019 at 9:12 AM, HighwayStar said:

 One thing is for sure - out of a thousand times I would one thousand times choose to face that sorrow on my own rather than being together with a partner I can't count on. 

Print this out, frame it and hang it everywhere!

You're learning from your experiences and that of others, and that's a great thing. It took me probably 6 months to be able to get where you are, but my apartment got really clean and my workout routine definitely increased, too!

On 10/24/2019 at 4:26 PM, HighwayStar said:

I feel like a coward saving myself this way but I can't see any other solution.

Don't feel like a coward, it wasn't you, it was her and you need to do what you feel is best for yourself. If anything, it's a test of one's strength to stop yourself from giving into the temptation of contact, that feeling and rush it gives you is alluring because the one thing you desire is on the other side, but in the end, just fills you with sadness when they don't reply. They're so close, yet just out of reach, and that's the hardest part to let go of. 

Thank you for sharing, I am sure someone will find your story helpful, too.

 Rae 😊

On 9/22/2019 at 7:09 PM, kayc said:

One sincere apology covers it.  Tell them if you haven't, tell him at his grave, but once is sufficient, it's not necessary to beg for forgiveness, they'll grant it or they won't, that's up to them.  Just continue as you are, learn from your mistakes and let it help you grow, that's the best you can do with it.  We ALL make mistakes.  There is no penance that will suffice with some people.  Anger is pain-based, so that's what prompted it.  Treating yourself with kindness and forgiveness will go a long ways in soothing your own feelings.  

This is fantastic. Begging for forgiveness, especially in this context, is not necessary.

On 10/2/2019 at 11:45 AM, themermaidgoddess said:

More like I want to change in a positive way and show him that I deserve a new chance as the new me. I'm not going to say "it's what your Dad would want" "you owe me it", not that kind of thing.

But the no-contect approach gives time to notice the good things, figure out what we both did wrong and grieve his Dad. I feel like in that way I should get respect because I'm letting him be.

I know it's bad to say that I want to get back with him as soon as the no-contact period is over. But that's how I feel. But you're right I do have to respect him.

Giving him space and respecting his boundaries does not guarantee he or his family will show you respect. As stated previously, do not beg for these things. They will either respect you, or they won't, don't hope that they will or think you deserve it from them, because then you're still hoping they will give you something that you may never receive. I completely understand, when my ex Tim ghosted me twice after his dad died suddenly, I felt I deserved (and he owed me) respect from him and an apology for his behavior. I never got either, and for a while, was hung up on it, and it stopped me from moving forward with my life and getting over him, I was waiting for a day that would never come because deep down, I didn't want to accept that it really was over.

No contact may do those things for you, but there is no guarantee time apart will make him rehash his relationship with you and own up to what he did wrong. It never happened with Tim, and I haven't spoken to him in 4 years. I am glad I haven't heard from him because it showed me who he truly was, and that he wasn't sorry. As painful as that realization was, it was a turning point.

It is okay to want to get back together, because you love him. But, don't hold out hope that you will, and don't just go running back to him like nothing happened. I made that mistake the first time with Tim because I was confused, and still in love with him. I don't recommend running blind.

--Rae 😊

On 10/8/2019 at 10:31 AM, kayc said:

A good counselor once said (okay, a LOT of times said), "throw the shoulds away."  Maybe give each other some time apart and see how you both feel in a few months.  If it's a good relationship, it'll make it through, if not, well it's enough time to help you both heal and see with clarity.

My sister and her BF broke up for a year over whether or not to have kids...she ran into him a year later and they still had feelings for each other, enough so she decided to not have kids...they got married and have been happily married almost 50 years now.  A "break" sometimes brings clarity.

Great advice here. It hasn't happened to me personally, but I know people who ended relationships only to reconcile some years later and stayed together. Time apart will give both of you clarity, and even if you don't reconcile, you won't still be stuck wondering "what if," and still trying to move on.

My ex-fiance who I was together with for 7 years and I reconciled as friends almost 5 years after we broke up. He initially said he wanted to try to get back together and that he was sorry for cheating, but by then I no longer felt the same and my only offer was friendship. I had also left town by then and had no plans on ever moving back.

Even if you don't reconcile, you will still be on a better path than you are now. It takes time, but you will get back to where you need to be, with or without him.

-- Rae

On 10/5/2019 at 7:48 AM, kayc said:

I went through those thoughts too in early breakup time...worrying about him.  I finally gravitated to worrying about myself as I realized he was doing him, I needed to do me.  "We" were no longer.  I was blindsided when he broke up with me.  I knew his life was in an upheaval, he couldn't leave his mom, was anyone bringing him a meal, groceries?  I wasn't allowed to yet his ex was, I didn't get it.  All I know is, they make their own choices, we have to respect their wishes, but in those early days especially the pain is so great.  Fast forward a few years, his ex is living with him, not as a couple but they are family, he took her in and takes care of her, she's like a child, simple, the relationship is toxic but it's his choice.  I'm glad I'm not part of that equation!  I haven't dated since him, and it's been over nine years!  But I'm better off alone than in that mess.  And I've learned to be open minded about what the future may hold, even though I don't seem to meet anyone I'd consider...never say never.  A friend of mine married at 82 and was happily married the rest of her life.

I am able to look back and see the good now...and also what wasn't working, with more clarity and realistically.  We're friends but drifting apart more now, we live 75 miles apart and his life involves different people now.

I went through this exact same thing after my ex of nearly 2 years dumped me, twice, after his father suddenly died 4 years ago. I worried about him, constantly for months afterward and neglected my own well-being for a while because I was stuck and unwilling to let go of him. Kayc is right, in that their "needing time" in many ways is a precursor to a permanent breakup. He treated me, for months after we reconciled the first time, like I had done something wrong, even though he repeatedly told me it wasn't me, he loved me and that he didn't want to break up. When he ghosted me the second time, that same day he told me he loved me before leaving his apartment. I haven't spoken to him since, I had to make the choice to walk away after that.

These days, I am glad we didn't reconcile or stay together. He would've dumped me regardless, as he had a pattern of it in previous relationships and we were fundamentally incompatible. The drama, the hot n cold treatment, the saying but not showing, got old really really fast. I am glad I am no longer involved with him.

I have not dated in 4 years and I am happier because the time alone has given me clarity about what I want from life, and my relationships. You will get to this point eventually too, where one day you have that "aha!" moment, the memories will fade, you'll make peace with the breakup, and the relationship no longer dominates your thoughts.

-- Rae 😊

On 7/6/2019 at 10:00 AM, Chlor said:

I did receive another message from him about a month ago, apologizing and saying he is open to talking about whats been going on in each others lives. On several occasions, I started drafts but have not responded yet. I just dont know what to say. I know he is suffering terribly over the loss of his son and I feel horrible ignoring him. I dont want to add to his pain in any way.  Quite the opposite is true; I still love him deeply and wish to be his comfort. So you can see that I am nowhere near being over the relationship and I know that any communication is likely to reopen my wound completely.  Even information about him sets me back. Last week, a friend, who is connected with someone in his family, confirmed that he did indeed get back with his ex-wife.  While Im grateful for the clarity, which will definitely help me let go of lingering hope in the long run, it still hurts so much right now.  I think about his invitation to share about ourselves and wonder what he's looking for from me. Is it morbid curiosity about the status of my marital demise? If so, he doesnt get to know. And I certainly dont want to know about his life with his ex. I am looking forward to the day when I stop thinking about this constantly.  

In the meantime, I am grateful for all the wisdom that I gained here.  Particularly, the insights about patterns of behavior and the stuff about not letting anyone say they dont want you twice. It has really helped me stop second guessing myself too much and keep putting one foot in front of the other. Thanks again.

I think it is partial curiosity because he's lost contact with you, guilt and he wants to maintain contact just in case his current situation doesn't work out. That's what Tim did, he missed having access to me, and me being around, he did not miss us or our relationship, and most importantly he did not miss ME. Sure he may still have lingering feelings or curiosity about you, but he's with someone else and has already told you he doesn't want you once, don't give him the option to tell you he doesn't want you a second time.

https://youtu.be/9fnOknEFrLU -- Watch this video, this explains what I mean in a more clear way.

I would say that because its only been a few months and you don't feel that you can reply and NOT get sucked back into the hope and despair, DO NOT reply to him. If he wants to know about whats going on in your life, he'd make the effort to actually be with you and right his wrongs. And he isn't, so I wouldn't bother, do not give him the satisfaction of a reply, as he may take it as you're still waiting around for him, even if you are not.

It is quite clear that this man is confused and playing games, even if he's unintentionally doing so. He went back to he ex-wife and is now concerned with what's going on in your life?! After he left you for someone else?! As you've said in previous posts, he's done this before with the woman he has now left you for, and now he's just repeating the cycle with you. Don't let him.

Stand firm in that he does not deserve to know what's going on in your life now that he has willingly left it and went back to yet another ex. He doesn't deserve your time. Grief or not, he does not get to do to you what is happening to him. Misery loves company, but so does confusion. Don't reopen a door you've already closed. For now, deadbolt that door. He can come and look inside the window if he wants, but that doesn't mean you have to unlock the door and subject yourself to further harm.

If he wanted to be with you, he would be.

--Rae 

Hi Velvet, I am sorry you find yourself here, but welcome. 

These situations are never easy to deal with, especially when you did nothing wrong, and this death and the grief that follows has blindsided both of you in different ways.

My ex, Tim acted the same way as yours has. Immediately following the death of his father, he stopped contacting me. We had been together over a year by then. He didn't even tell me his father died, his brother did. A week went by before I heard from him, we talked in person, and he said he didn't want to break up, he just needed some time and that he loved me, it wasn't about me, thanked me for understanding and he'd contact me in a few days. A few days turned into 3 months. A month went by, I concluded our relationship was over and began to move forward. Two months later he contacts me begging to reconcile, and because I still loved him and was deeply confused myself, I agreed even though my gut told me not to. We lasted another 3 months before he ghosted me again and I had no choice but to walk away, even more confused and heartbroken than the first time. I would advise you don't make the same mistake I did if it comes to be that way in your situation.

On 7/2/2019 at 3:50 AM, VelvetBlue said:

I never could outright tell him that he hurt me incredibly. He was essentially putting me through the loss of a loved one as well. However, I sacrificed my feelings so he could feel better in such hard times. Realising that he is taking my love for granted is helping me move on. Yet I can't help but wonder if he will regret because though I truly want him to be happy, I still want him to realise that he has let someone go that really would have never left him.

I also feel incredibly bad as I feel like I'm abandoning him in these hard times but I've told him I will not contact him anymore and I plan to stick to that. I feel like I was too quick and selfish to ask him to give it another go. Perhaps he saw it as me being shallow but I needed closure and I wanted to relieve his guilt and pain even a little. I never told him how much I worried that he was hurting and how sorry I was for his situation because he wouldn't want me to worry as it would pressure him more and he doesn't like feeling weak. Also I just didn't want to bring up the loss of his close one. I thought it would be better to leave him completely but I wonder if it was the wrong choice. I maybe should have stayed for him and encouraged him during these hard times and not pushed him to consider trying again. I feel like I've ruined everything. Yet at the same time, I see that he is taking me for granted and I am of no importance to him.I am constantly cycling through not wanting him back but also feeling as though he will come back. It hurts that I have to be the 'bigger person', and the uncertainty of whether what I did was right or if I was too selfish is eating away at me slowly.

Do not feel bad for doing what is best for yourself, he already is by breaking up with you because he feels it is whats best for him. Stick to the NC, you are already farther ahead of where I was in my situation. When they behave like this, at first it may just be because they are confused, but after so long, it becomes a deliberate conscious choice, and that was something I had to learn the hard way with Tim. He is taking you for granted, you are absolutely right about that. Do not stay and wait for him, it will only hurt you in the long run. He broke up with you, and by doing so he made it clear that he doesn't want your support or love, and that he doesn't expect you to wait around for him to get right again. He may have told you he loves you, and he probably still does, but his actions indicate that he doesn't want to be with you anymore, even though he said his breaking up with you had nothing to do with you or your relationship. Grief makes people do strange things, this situation is unfortunately, not unique. He is being selfish by breaking up with you, DO NOT feel as though you did something wrong by being selfish and protecting yourself from his confusion and uncertainty. Misery might love company, but so does confusion.

It is perfectly acceptable to not want to see him suffer and have the impulse to comfort him, you love him, its only natural when you love someone. But the fact of the matter is, he has chosen to walk this journey alone, and despite your freely offering love and support, he doesn't want it. There is nothing you could've done or said to make him feel differently. Don't blame yourself. Do what is best for yourself.

Moving on will take time. You will feel a whole range of emotions for a while, and that's okay. Stick to the NC, remove him from your social media feeds, replace his name in your phone as something like "He takes me for granted" if you can't delete his number just yet. Remove anything he gave you or pictures of you two out of your immediate sight and grasp. Join a gym, group, club etc, go back to your life and hobbies. Spend more time with friends and family, take a class, learn a new skill. You had a life and were a whole person before the two of you got together, start doing things that bring you joy and remind you that you can be happy and are whole without him around.

On 7/2/2019 at 3:50 AM, VelvetBlue said:

I still can't help but feel lost when I think about how detached he was and how final the decision seemed when I called him immediately after the breakup. He mentioned that I'm still beautiful, amazing and all that but he just can't treat me the same way anymore, it is unfair to me and that he wishes things could have ended differently. It really sounded like he had a rational mind though I would like to hope that his grief has made him react this way.

I reached out to him around 2 weeks after NC. I asked if we could catch up and he told me that he was busy which I knew was a blatant lie. I had wanted to tell him in person how I felt and apologise for making it even more difficult for him during his time of grief but I just ended up sending it through text. I told him that I forgave him, apologised for making it difficult, that I was doing okay, pointed out perhaps why he didn't want to keep our relationship, told him that I loved him not just being in a relationship and asked him to consider giving it another go.

The reply was quick, he didn't even take time to consider even though I asked him to. (I understand 2 weeks might have been too early but I wanted to move on.) He said that I was a good person and he was glad that I was doing better, he felt more at ease because he was guilty for hurting me but he doesn't think he's ready to try again or if he ever will be. He said life is complicated and his situation has changed and he doesn't see us together anymore and he wants me to move on.

I already expected such a reply but seeing it still hurt. Just realising that he is able to second guess everything in his life except our relationship hurt. I never took him for granted and apparently for him I just wasn't good enough. I said I wished the best for him and all the happiness in the world and respected his decision. I did not beg or overreact. I told him that I can not be friends with him and am currently in NC.

This right here is all you need to know. There is no point in continuing to contact him or hold out hope that he will come back. You need to take what he said at face value. It's okay to feel hurt by what he said, losing someone you love hurts. Your feelings are just as valid as his. Do what is best for yourself. But just be aware that you did nothing wrong here, you reacted to him the only way you knew how, with love and support, and he didn't want it. That's not your fault, do not blame yourself for his feelings or behavior.

--Rae 

2 hours ago, KylaB said:

Thanks everyone for your responses and for being honest with me.

I do agree that I need to work on my anger. I felt horribly afterwards that I acted in that way because I had never done that to him before. I definitely shouldn’t have done that. He told me that if the shoe was on the other foot, a man hitting a woman, it would have went very differently and that I would have left him. Quite frankly, he told no lies. 

As you said, he's right. You need to work on that. As it goes with the saying, "if they do it once, they'll do it again." Same applies to you. Until you deal with your anger, figure out why you behave like this and work on yourself, you are prone to behaving this way in the future.

2 hours ago, KylaB said:

 These days are so long and draining. For majority of the day he’s all I can think about and it hurts that I can’t even pick up the phone to call him like I normally would.  I think about all the ways I went about this situation wrong and even things I’ve done in this relationship that were wrong... and although you all say it’s nothing I could have done to fix this... I can’t help but disagree.

See here's the thing I think you're missing in our message: His grief has nothing to do with you and you couldn't have done anything differently to prevent his reaction. However, your actions such as getting physical and demanding/begging he stay could very well have led him to his decision. Physical violence of any kind is and should be an absolute deal breaker for everyone. Begging/demanding when he pulls away is going to make people run. Think of that like a rubber band, the more slack you allow (the tighter you squeeze and draw yourself closer to him forcibly), the more opportunity he has to pull the rubber band farther from you in another direction (run away and either cut it loose or snap back into your direction). If you both add resistance (go back to your life and let him be him), at some point one of these things will happen: either you will come back together as the resistance on the band will eventually snap you into one another, or one/both of you will sever the band and end the relationship for good. Bad analogy but you get it. Sidenote: You cannot make a person stay who does not want to stay. If he wants to leave, let him. And if you want to leave, leave. As it stands, he has effectively broken up with you. If he chooses to make amends in the future, that is a choice you will both have to make, but i'd advise against just running back to him and acting like nothing is wrong.

2 hours ago, KylaB said:

And it’s funny how things come full circle... because a few months ago I asked him for a break to try to “find myself” but he pleaded with me and I felt horribly so I decided to stay with him. I’m trying not to be so hard on myself but I don’t think it’s possible right now. He was a huge part of my life for a long time, and very much my first real relationship.

This should have been the first clue that maybe you aren't right for one another, as I am sure there were others. It sounds like both of you have some things you need to work on and that in a way, your relationship was based out of desperation, neediness and insecurity that each of you may not even be aware you had. You can still love one another deeply and not be right for one another. My ex Tim and I loved one another to pieces and had a future together, but we were fundamentally incompatible, and many of these things I didn't see or want to see until he left me after his father died and I had no choice but to admit that I ignored the red flags. Love makes you do that.

Begging/demanding is degrading, it shows desperation and that you don't respect yourself. Never beg someone to be with you. Same goes for him too.

It will take time to move forward, it doesn't happen overnight.

--Rae 

9 hours ago, KylaB said:

We got into a heated argument a couple days before I left for vacation and things turned physical on my part. We talked about it the next day face to face and I promised to never let my emotions get the best of me now matter how he acted, and we ended on a good note. Then, I left on vacay and we got into a small “argument” (wasn’t even as much as an argument) and he said we needed space.

Hi Kyla, I am sorry you find yourself here, but you are not alone.

First off, I am going to address this part here: Physical altercations are NEVER the answer. I understand that you are/were upset, but I do think that therapy may be the best route to understand why in such anger you acted out physically. I am not judging you, simply saying you need to talk to someone about this.

9 hours ago, KylaB said:

In September of 2017 I started dating who I thought was the love of my life. Everything was great for us in the beginning. We did have our fair share of issues but got through them together. We were best friends and lovers. It was like a fairytale honestly. We were both deeply in love and he told me how much he loved and cherished me everyday. But, in April 2019 our friend committed suicide. This friend was his bestfriend, however. During the early stages after our friend’s suicide I noticed things that I thought were normal, such as my boyfriend sleeping for majority of the day and not showing a lot of enthusiasm as normal. But, I didn’t seem to notice the distance growing in our relationship until about a month or so later. I felt like he didn’t feel the same about me and I voiced this to him several times. He told me that that wasn’t the case and that he was spending much more time with his friends lately because of our friends’ death. I tried to be understanding but now as I reflect I think I may have been too hard on him. I was used to being with him everyday and spending time that once that stopped happening like I wanted, I became selfish. I can admit that we were very attached and I was not used to him spending a lot of time with his friends. 

There were many occasions where he did things that made me feel left out. For instance, we would make plans but his friends would call and then we’d have to alter our plans or he’d leave me hanging. Each time something like this happened, I got upset and told him how I felt. Towards the end (of our relationship) he started dismissing my feelings and telling me that he’s adjusting to this new way of life (although sometimes he’d do it in such a nonchalant way, almost like “Look, this is how things are so just get used to it”.) Fast forward to this month, June. I could feel the connection weakening: we were arguing most days. We got into a heated argument a couple days before I left for vacation and things turned physical on my part. We talked about it the next day face to face and I promised to never let my emotions get the best of me now matter how he acted, and we ended on a good note. Then, I left on vacay and we got into a small “argument” (wasn’t even as much as an argument) and he said we needed space. It crushed me. I reacted really badly, crying hysterically and begging him not to do this. He acted nonchalantly again. He said this is the best for us right now, that it wouldn’t be fair to me to keep going through this same cycle of him promising me that things would get better but him making the same mistakes. But that he also said he couldn’t put a time stamp on this “break”. I texted/called him for about 2-3 days after this simply begging/crying/getting angry at this decision. I felt that we should have mutually agreed on this and that I should have been given more details on how things would be during this break. Our conversations after this weren’t so good and he acted very cold to me like I’d done something. I tried calling him about 4 days ago only to find out he blocked me. Also, his friends and i were in a group chat and one of his friends removed me from the chat. He also told me he deleted my accounts from his phone. So, I stooped to the lowest level and messaged him on social media. The message reads:  “i’m not sure why u blocked me, i’m sorry if i did anything to hurt u. i want to be here for u and am trying to respect ur wishes. but u don’t have to erase me out of ur life, i just want to know ur okay. days without talking isn’t like us... just please let me know everything is ok.” He responded “I’m not i’m just getting myself together”. I said “okay. i am here for u. do whatever u need to do for urself. i love u.” he responded “i love u too”. That has been our last communication. As I look back on our conversations after reading this forum, i realize that i may have pushed him beyond his emotional limits. for a time he put up with this “nagging” that i did, but then it seemed he grew tired. I really hope this is not the end but I am preparing myself for the fact that it may be. I’m confused because it started as “space” but then he blocks me from calling/texting. He said he’d check in on me but now thats impossible unless he plans on doing that through social media which I doubt (plus it’s been 4 days). I will see him in 2 days at our deceased friend’s son’s first birthday party. i am unsure of what to say (if anything at all) when i see him. if him or his friends try to act like i’m invisible it may cause me to emotionally relapse, and i don’t want to do that because i’ve been making slight progress. for this past week and some change I’ve been slowly picking myself back up, figuring out how my life was before he was in it. he is still the first thing on my mind when i wake up and go to sleep. this is all so hard, especially now knowing that he may never come back. I’ve been trying NC for 8 days (although i did break it that one time). I’ve heard nothing from him although he posts. I don’t want to hold on to hope because it’s dangerous, but I cant help it. it’s hard to believe that he can just throw our entire relationship away so easily. 

I understand how your ex feels. My best friend of ten years killed himself in 2011, 9 months prior to that my grandfather had died, and it was devastating for me, as I wasn't even 21 yet and had a bag full of emotional problems. My boyfriend of over 5 years, Joe, was kind and caring as much as he possibly could be. I layed in bed all day, dropped out of school for the semester and almost quit my job. I became very depressed and sunk into a hole that made everything in my life far less important, including my relationship. Joe and I were living together at the time so he tried his best to maintain and understand that I just needed time, but it was devastating for him too because he felt like I was abandoning him, and in a way, he was right. After about 4 months of outbursts, misplaced anger, sleeping all day and just general malaise, Joe told me that if I don't seek therapy we're breaking off the engagement. It wasn't healthy for either of us and it was damaging to our relationship, and he was right to do that. At first I was angry and thought he just didn't understand what I was going through, but after a few therapy sessions, my feelings started to settle out and I got better the more I opened up in therapy.

There is no "one size fits all" piece of advice for these situations, everyone's emotions are different and everyone will get through this their own way and on their own time. You can't rush it. Stop making his feelings of grief about yourself, they don't have anything to do with you. Your feelings are valid, but so are his and you need to respect his decision and feelings. Does it suck? Of course it does, no one ever wants to be made to feel this way, but it happens. As hard as it is to do, don't take it personally. He already told you that he needs time to sort himself out and get it together, you can't put a time limit on it. So as it stands, you need to let it be and go back to your own life. Even if he does "get it together," he may not come back to your relationship, as grief changes people and they re-evaluate their lives and feelings as time goes on. Grief does not go away, but it changes over time.

I understand that you felt like he was neglecting and abandoning you, because Joe felt that way too. However, you already answered your own question when you said you may have pushed him to his emotional limit. Your outbursts of emotion, while completely valid, pushed him away and had the opposite effect you intended. He is right, it sounds like you do need a break as he was neglecting your relationship, and in his distance you grew inpatient and tried to force his hand to do what you wanted. Your continued calling/texting/contact will only push him away further and he will continue to resent you for it, he has broken up with you, stop contacting him and go back to focusing on your life. I know it's hard, as I have been on both sides of the spectrum, once the griever who almost ruined her relationship, and then the dumpee of a grieving person.

You have to learn to accept that he may not come back, and yes it is hard and sad. You will go through a whole range of emotions as you work your way back to neutral and learn to be without him again. But I do hope you find the lessons in this experience and learn from them. Don't wait around on him either, as they don't expect us to, and you shouldn't anyways because it isn't fair to you. Talk to a therapist, and feel free to continue sharing on this forum. We are not going to sugarcoat things, just give honest answers from experience.

--Rae 

19 hours ago, kayc said:

Yes this is in the right section, and I'm so sorry for the circumstances that led you here.

I have read each and every post here and of all the hundreds of couples I think there was only one that made it through intact as a couple.  Your situation differs in that she has not broken up with you, but all the classic signs of her grief affecting your relationship are there.  Not everyone grieving responds in this way, but a certain number do.  And that is in part what this section is for.

I was engaged for a year when my fiance's mother took an ill turn and he started care giving 24/7...he broke up with me by FedEx at my office.  No discussion.  I was blindsided.  My house got very clean as I had to channel my energy somewhere.

You can be the perfect boyfriend to her, you can be understanding,offer her space, no expect or demand anything from her and it can still go south.  I've seen it happen time and again.  That's because it's not you, it's her.  That doesn't make her a bad person, if there's any consolation it's beyond her right now, she's consumed by grief, it obliterates anything else, leaving her void of anything to give anyone...especially a relationship which she likely sees as a demand she's not meeting, hence leaving her feeling worse.  This is one reason they break up, because they can't do a relationship with nothing in them to give and don't need the added pressure of feeling they're failing someone.

There are no answers, nothing you can do to control the outcome, it will play itself out.

I consider my own a success story in that we reconnected as friends after his mom passed, several months later.  It's been nine years ago since he broke up with me...I haven't dated since.  If you're young, it's not reasonable to expect to spend your life alone with unrequited love, but I'm old and just don't feel like going through it all again.  Too many times in my life.

In the years since, Jim and I have talked, he said he feels things would have turned out different for us had this not happened...me, I'm not so sure.  I feel we do well as friends.  I want a life partner (if I ever meet anyone) who will go through thick and thin with me, a relationship in which we can lean on each other, not one where one withdraws or drops you when things are rough.  Rough places come to all of us in life, that is a guaranty, it's how we handle it that is defining.  I've had more losses than I can count, the hardest being my husband 14 years ago.  He never would have shut me out or dumped me, not in a million years!  Unless/until I can find a keeper like him, I'll go it alone.  I'm not searching but I remain open to possibilities in life, no one knows the future.

You asked for advice...the best I can tell you is prepare for what is likely to happen if you can, focus more on YOU as you are important too!  Spend time with your family and friends.  This will also relieve pressure off her.  You can't circumvent her breaking up with you at some point, but you can take care of yourself.  It may sound trite, but join a gym, give yourself an outlet for everything that is pent up inside of you.  This is not just hard on her, this is hard on YOU.  You are grieving...you're watching your relationship slip away bit by bit, unable to stop it, I know of no worse torture.  I may have been blindsided but honestly, I think it's like pulling a bandaid off, mine was ripped off in one fell sweep while yours is torturously being peeled off bit by bit.

I second everything Kayc has said here. I don't think I can add anything.

My now ex Tim and I had been together about 2 years before his father suddenly died. Like Kayc said, my breakup was like pulling off a bandaid slowly at first, then he ripped it off later. He initially said he didn't want to break up, then ghosted me for 3 months. He said it had nothing to do with me, but he behaved like it did and misplaced his anger at me.

In my lifetime I have experienced two massive losses within 12 months, and because I was quite young and had emotional issues, I behaved irrationally and treated my boyfriend at the time terribly, so I understand how she may be feeling and the things she has told you are quite similar as many who are grieving feel or behave, so its not uncommon.

I am 27 now and I haven't dated in over 3 years, but I am not opposed to it, just haven't found anyone worth investing the time in. I too consider my story a successful one, Tim and I did not reconnect and I prefer that. As I came to discover that we would've broken up anyways because I moved to another State for work less than 6 months after I made the choice to walk away from him, and I know he would not have moved with me.

I will reiterate what Kayc has said: It's not you, it's them. You could be their "unicorn," but still not make it through their grief with an intact relationship. Tim told me he loved me, that he enjoyed being with me and that he saw a future with me, literally until the day he ghosted me the second time.

 As Kayc has said, focus on yourself for now. Not only will it be good for you, but it will relieve some pressure off of her too. IF she does break up with you, you'll be better prepared to continue focusing on yourself as you work through your own grief, but even if she doesn't break it off, you're still grieving parts of your relationship that were lost to her grief, and you need an outlet for that too.

It is hard on everyone, not just the griever.

20 hours ago, kayc said:

Rough places come to all of us in life, that is a guaranty, it's how we handle it that is defining.  

You asked for advice...the best I can tell you is prepare for what is likely to happen if you can, focus more on YOU as you are important too!  Spend time with your family and friends.  This will also relieve pressure off her.  You can't circumvent her breaking up with you at some point, but you can take care of yourself.  It may sound trite, but join a gym, give yourself an outlet for everything that is pent up inside of you.  This is not just hard on her, this is hard on YOU.  You are grieving...you're watching your relationship slip away bit by bit, unable to stop it, I know of no worse torture.  I may have been blindsided but honestly, I think it's like pulling a bandaid off, mine was ripped off in one fell sweep while yours is torturously being peeled off bit by bit.

 

 

I second this, especially. How people handle rough situations in life tells you a lot about who they are. Part of me understood why Tim behaved and treated me the way he did, because I once behaved in a similar way too. He didn't know himself, was uncomfortable with his feelings, hadn't confronted his childhood trauma/problems and was emotionally stunted/unavailable. However, it didn't make it okay.

You will get through this no matter the outcome.

--Rae 

Hey Ralph,

You sound like you're aware of how you are feeling and your next course of action regarding how to go forward. As Kayc said, grief is complicated. It does odd things to people. My ex ghosted me twice after his dad died suddenly 3.5 years ago, we had been dating almost 2 years by then. I was your age at the time, I am 27 now. At first he said he didn't want to break up, then went silent on me for 3 months before trying to reconcile. It was confusing, heartbreaking and hurtful.

You are going about this appropriately, with being on a "break," now is the time to focus on yourself and try to move forward with your life regardless of her presence (not move on, just forward). It is really hard at first, but will settle with time and you will gain clarity as time goes on.

Read the post by Vandal, he is/was in the same head space as you as far as being aware of his feelings and what he needs to do after his ex broke up with him.

--Rae 

In regards to dealing with your mother and sister, you need to learn to set boundaries within your relationships with them. You cannot allow yourself to continue tolerating their disrespect and picking at your self-esteem for the sake of them being family and your unresolved fears of abandonment that stem from their abuse of you. That's not healthy or fair to you, and you should seriously consider talking to a therapist because its obvious these are deep seated issues from your childhood that you need to work on if you ever want to get better.

 I know how it feels, my sister used to pick on me relentlessly growing up (we think its purely jealousy). She would steal my clothes, my belongings, would use my photos to catfish men on the internet, "sell" me to her "friends" in exchange for things, and even tried to date one of my ex boyfriends. In my teens and early 20s I didn't understand why she acted this way and because shes my sister and I wanted her approval, I gave her things, but all she ever did was take from me and then flip out when I said no. She'd borrow money and when I said no, she'd attempt to steal it. She constantly spent all her money on alcohol, was chronically unemployed and to this day is a willfully un-medicated bipolar who we think is also a sociopath. After a particularly crappy fight one afternoon and her trying to take my debit card, I just blocked her number after sending my parents the screenshots of what she said so they could finally understand that she has been gas-lighting, stealing from and torturing her siblings for years. To this day, my dad still refuses to believe she acts this way. Back then my dad was the one who always said "well she's your sister, at least try getting along." And for years I listened to that, even though he'd flat out deny her behavior. I don't anymore and now our relationship is on my terms. I didn't realize this needed to stop until one day it occurred to me that I was being gaslit by my own dad regarding how she behaved.

I cut contact with her for 3 years. I just went dark on her because I was tired of her nonsense and it was making my life miserable. DO NOT ever allow yourself to tolerate disrespect and cruelty from someone just because you are related. That does not give them the right to mistreat you. You wouldn't let your children, spouse, friends or boss treat you that way, your family doesn't get a pass either. Toxic people aren't just lovers, sometimes they're parents, siblings and children too.

You've referenced your sister and mothers cruelty towards you multiple times in this thread, and its obvious it has had seriously negative effects on your life and mental health. Now I am not saying never contact them again. What I am saying is: Stop seeking their approval, every time you tolerate their cruelty and react to what they do in a positive way, it reinforces their belief that they're allowed to treat you that way and that what they say about you is true. It isn't true. I understand that they're the only family you have left and that you don't want to lose that relationship, totally get it, been there. But what you do need to do is learn to stop reacting to what they say to you and believing it. Don't respond to their nasty texts, and when they call you and start berating you, hang up the phone. When you're around them and they start berating you, leave. Tell them you won't tolerate it anymore and establish boundaries. They keep crossing these boundaries because you've allowed them to get comfortable disrespecting you. Go to therapy, talk to your friends, but do seek help and dig into why you feel this way.

As I said before, these issues are monsters to deal with because these relationships are ones you've had since the day you were born, and its hard and stigmatized to disconnect from toxic family members, and its easier to just tolerate it than deal with it. But over time, ignoring these things will just erode you and your mental health into nothing and you will become a void of self-hatred.

These days, now that we don't live in the same city it's gotten easier. She isn't allowed in my apartment, we are not connected on any social media and most of our contact is mediated to our get together's at our mothers house with her child in tow. We text from time to time, but if she starts in on her nonsense, I just say "okay, do you" and mute the conversation then delete the messages.

It takes time and work to get to the point I am at, but it's healthier for me and that's all I care about. I can love her from afar, but not want her in my house (mental space), because the last time I gave her a key, she (metaphorically) attempted to burn it down. I cannot make her seek therapy, take medication or treat her family with respect, but I can control our interaction, and I do.

You can too.

-- Rae 

21 hours ago, Chlor said:

Thank you for this enciuragement. As you can see,  I have been second choice my whole life. I get that if I am ever to be in a happy relationshop with someone who is truly devoted to me  I need to learn to choose myself first.  The problem is that I dont think its a coicindence that I have repeatedly been shut out or left behind by people who I love deatly and who claim to love me in favor of someone or something else that is somehow existentially more appealing than I am.  I really dont want to spend the rest of my life alone and loving myself.

Everyone has these fears. That they'll always get passed over for others and end up alone. I mean, look at Charlize Theron, she made a statement some time ago about how she's been single for 10 years and that she's tired of being called "intimidating" and that guys need to grow a pair and start asking women like her out. She's right. But it doesn't make dating any easier for her.

Tracy's TEDx talk is the one I think most applies to you, she had to learn to sit by her own bed side and hold her own hand. She had to learn to choose and love herself, but she's aware that loving yourself is not synonymous with being alone forever, and that's not what she's encouraging anyone to do. She's telling us to heal our own wounds and love ourselves the way we want others to love us, and the way we want to love them. Having self-esteem and love for one's self is not synonymous with being alone. You can be an individual person, and also be part of a couple. I'd argue that being your own person and choosing to be open to love after hurt and welcoming another person to share life with you is the only way to have a successful relationship. And no, a 'successful' relationship doesn't always mean marriage, children and 30 years together. A successful relationship is two happy people loving one another for who they are, not one person giving up who they are for the other. If it lasts, wonderful, if not, be glad you got to experience that love, learn from it, and move forward. We don't own people, and we can't change people. We simply get to share experiences and life with them. Look at Terry and Steve Irwin, they loved one another to pieces and we're inseparable, but now that Steve has died, people questioned her as to why she hasn't dated since. She said "because I already had my love story. Even though it was cut short far too soon, I'm happy that we got to share a lifetime of experiences, our children and do what we both loved, and I plan to continue it. I know Steve would encourage me to love again, and I him, but I am loved, and I am happy with the way that things are now. I wish he could still be here, but my life didn't stop when his did, it's just different now." Terri could date, she just doesn't need to because she feels her life is what she wants it to be, even without Steve. If she does date again, good for her, if not, oh well.

If you continue to operate from the belief you will forever be second to others and "forever alone," you will only continue to entertain men who treat you as such and then abandon you because it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and in a way it already has. Instead of relying on others to give you permission to put you first and waiting for them to put you first, do it yourself. That way, if a man comes into your life and makes you a second thought, you won't hesitate to walk away. On the flip side, when you meet a man who not only encourages you to love yourself, but also loves you, himself and makes you a priority in his life, you won't be compelled to search for his approval by making your life about him.

You're looking for relationships to heal your wounds, save you and validate your existence because you're terrified of being alone. It's not healthy, and it's something we've all done, and many still do because we're sold the belief that romantic love, relationships and external validation is a cure-all. It isn't. But it is a hard mindset to unlearn. 

I won't be alone forever, and neither will you. But for now, don't focus on that. Focus on moving forward, not moving on, just forward. Tiny wins are still wins. One step at a time.