Rae1991

2 hours ago, Chlor said:

I grew up in a family where my sister was and still is preferred over me.  Of course the family, my mother in particular, always denied this. They would say "we love you both the same" and I would feel guilty for thinking otherwise and for the resentment I felt. It is easy to lie to a child. As I grew up, the dynamics became much more obvious in extremely hurtful ways that everyone else in my family could see. I wont go into detail about this but I will say that the silver lining in seeing the truth is knowing that my childhood pain was based in reality and not in my jealous imagination.

To bring it back to the issue at hand, I see now that, whether they got back together or not, being suddenly ghosted for another woman totally plays into my unresolved family issue. But Im not sure that this kind of trauma can ever be resolved. We just go on living. I do maintain a relationship with my family of origin but it has boundaries. We are not close. As I write this out, Im sure this is a big part of why Im having so much trouble letting go. Once again, I am the girl who is not chosen.  He loves me but I am not the one. Blah blah blah. 

The child inside me still desperately wants to rewrite the ending with this guy. But I think we all know it would not be different . The best I can do is recognize this trigger as a giant red flag and run when I see it, with this guy and in the future. 

I grew up in this same situation. For some reason, my father has favored our older sister our entire lives, we don't know why. Now it's just straight enabling, shes 32, a dropout and has a child, still lives with our dad and never has a job longer than a few months. He gives her money, buys her cars (shes crashed 4 of them already) and never, ever makes her face any consequences for how she behaves. The rest of us are well-adjusted and normal people with jobs and lives, but their relationship is just purely enabling one another's bad habits. She goes through boyfriends and jobs the way my dad goes through cars, a different one every few months or year, and they've done this for years. Then my dad gets married and she competes with this woman for attention and affection from my dad, it is utterly nonsensical and ridiculous.

My own mother now recognizes that my dad clearly favors her over the rest of us, and has for decades, and we've never been able to figure out why. He loves her unconditionally (literally), but with the rest of us, we've always felt we had to earn his love. It makes you angry, sad, confused and it breaks your heart all at the same time, and it is a monster to deal with because you don't understand why your parents, the people who you are conditioned to trust, don't want you. That's why I spent a year and half in therapy and how I began recognizing that a lot of my emotional issues, anger, confusion, low self-esteem etc came from growing up with inconsistent and emotionally unavailable parents. My brothers refuse therapy and they need it badly, they're still both angry at my parents. I have settled my anger because it got so, SO tiring constantly being angry, sad and running after guys who behaved like my dad did. It became a cycle of self-fulfilling prophecies. I would date guys like Joe and Tim, then wonder why they rejected me, behaved terribly or left me for someone else because I wasn't good enough for them. It's not that I wasn't good enough for them, simply that we were fundamentally incompatible and they have their own unresolved issues and we were drawn to the wounds in one another because it was familiar and comfortable. I stopped being attracted to men like Joe and Tim when I decided that instead of just being angry all the time and repeating the same mistakes over and over, I am going to heal my own wounds.

It's not that you're not good enough, its that they are drawn to you because you possess things they lack: self-esteem, confidence, happiness, money, freedom etc. And, they're using you as a place-filler to get the things they lack until what they want can be found elsewhere. They need relationships to thrive and make themselves feel worthy and normal. I behaved this way for a while because I was unhappy with my life and convinced a relationship was the one thing that would fix how I felt. My sister behaves this way, many of my friends behave this way and it's tiring constantly consoling them and giving them advice they don't listen to, and my dad STILL behaves this way. While Joe may not have used me as a place-filler for our entire relationship, for the last year he did, until he was sure he had another person to go to. Tim may have loved me, but he used me to get things he lacked: comfort, confidence, love, a feeling of worthiness after being rejected by the women he most desired etc. In your case, your ex may have cared for you, but it was under the pretense of him not leaving you as long as she wasn't available to him, and you remained unavailable to a degree because of your pending divorce. The second what he was lacking was available to him again, he ran back to it.

When you go through your life with a sense of lack, you're always going to feel like you're not enough and that others may not be enough to fulfill you because you will always be unfilled and lacking until you learn to fill that space yourself. You will never be enough for an unfulfilled person because they expect you to heal their wounds and fill their voids, and that's not your job.

Funny enough, back in 2016 right before I was leaving town for my new job and about 6 months after Tim and I ended, Joe and I went to dinner. Joe apologized to me for how he treated me, and told me that he still had feelings for me (I highly doubt he'd have said this if his girlfriend hadn't left him), and that he couldn't marry me back then because he "had to get 'it' out of his system" but that he was open to trying again. I said No. But that we can be friends on Facebook and chat occasionally, and that's all it is now. He's not a bad person, and he was my best friend for 9 years, but I don't see him that way anymore.

Stick to your boundaries. You're worth more than being a man's back-up plan or second choice. Be glad he showed you who he was before you made life-altering decisions later on down the line for the sake of what he wants. ALWAYS CHOOSE YOURSELF.

One of the hardest things in life we will ever have to do, is a grieve a person who is still alive.

https://youtu.be/P3fIZuW9P_M

https://youtu.be/jmUayKnHWWM

Watch these TED Talks, they explain in a more condensed way than I can.

2 hours ago, Vandal said:

Chlor, I never heard from her, but it's fine now.  Was it excruciating to go through?  Yes, very.  Getting dumped and ghosted essentially overnight is brutal.  But I'm glad it turned out this way.  No contact, cold turkey was the way to go.  Neither of us use social media or have online presences, which also helps greatly.  I honestly wouldn't want any contact from her now.  I wouldn't have anything to say.

My thoughts too, Vandal. I haven't spoken to Tim in 3 years, and I am glad. I wouldn't have had anything to say to him after the first few months went by, and by now I am grateful we broke up. When he ghosted me the first time and came back, I already wasn't sure what to say, after the second time and that very same day, the last time we talked he told me he loved me, yeah, nothing left to say. Done.

2 hours ago, Vandal said:

I can understand why you're thinking this.  The truth, I think, lies somewhere in between.  Life is complicated and messy.  I think my ex needed that escape of being in love and accepting love from me to help mend (or suppress) her underlying pain and sadness.  She, like a lot of women, had been hurt a lot (emotionally, physically) by those closest to her and she was detached and unemotional when we first met.  She was not a happy person when I met her.  I don't doubt that she loved me.  I think being with me made her feel (mostly) normal, and she needed to feel that.  I get it now that this was never a good foundation for a solid relationship.  Red flags galore.  And we were different because I was able to show all of my cards at the table, but she wasn't.  Or wasn't ready to.  She had massive, unresolved trust and abandonment issues that she never actually dealt or sought help with.  Her grief probably stirred up a lot of what she'd been ignoring and hiding for years.  And in the end, she felt it was better to retreat back into herself than to stick it out with me.

EXACTLY! Tim needed this escape too. I don't doubt that he loved me either, but it became obvious he had emotional problems later on. He wanted to feel normal too, and being in relationships gave him that. I think it lied in his abusive parents and his weird relationship with them, insecurity from being picked on growing up, and being rejected by his first girlfriend and multiple women after that. He had problems with trust, emotional maturity and women in general because of his abusive mother. And it manifested in all his romantic relationships.

2 hours ago, Vandal said:

And we were different because I was able to show all of my cards at the table, but she wasn't.  Or wasn't ready to.  She had massive, unresolved trust and abandonment issues that she never actually dealt or sought help with.  Her grief probably stirred up a lot of what she'd been ignoring and hiding for years.  And in the end, she felt it was better to retreat back into herself than to stick it out with me.

This is Tim, only in a female form.

You see, Chlor, none of this is unique, a lot of people behave the same way that all our exes did. They thrust their unresolved problems unto others, or ignore them, then when they are forced to face them, retreat, act out or go deeper down their spiral of ignoring their problems, pushing loved ones away and everything around them gets worse because we are now left to deal with the fallout from the wounds they inflicted onto us.

Hurt people, hurt people. One of the truest statements I have ever heard. It isn't us, it was them all along.

On 5/9/2019 at 9:53 AM, kayc said:

When my fiance broke up with me when his mom was dying, it blindsided me.  I never expected it.  Were there red flags I missed?  I think so.  We'd been engaged a year.  We hadn't set a date and maybe we never would have gotten married, I don't know, but I never expected he'd break up with me!  He seemed happy with our life, he'd come every weekend, we always had a good time.  No I didn't expect this.  It felt like it came out of nowhere.  Years later he told me he thought things would have turned out different had his mom not died.  Me, I don't think so.  He showed me how he handled things and I feel it would have happened sooner or later.  Into each of our lives, unexpected hardship occurs, we were no different.  A certain segment of people react this way in grief, but not everyone does.  When my husband died 14 years ago, I WANTED my friends/family, unfortunately the friends all left.  I don't get that either.  Shows what kind of friends they were!

I feel like when all this happened with Jim, it was for the best that I found out, thank God we hadn't married and THEN he'd dumped me!  

It's his loss.  He may or may not ever see that.  I haven't dated since and it's been almost nine years.  If I was younger I might have, but with what I've been through, I just don't feel like it.  If I met someone I might reconsider but I haven't so I reckon I'll stay alone.

I was blindsided as well, by both Joe and Tim. Joe and I had been together 7 years and were engaged and planning a wedding with no date set, too. Were there red flags I shouldn't have ignored or been able to see? Of course. But he railroaded me with the cheating, lying and seemingly overnight revelation that he wasn't in love with me anymore, had felt differently for months and "loved me, but liked her.." I was also blinded by love, and only being 21 at the time I hadn't ever been in a relationship prior so I didn't know what to look for. I am just thankful we didn't actually get married or have children because it became glaringly obvious we were not right for each other anymore. I was a sophomore in college with hopes, dreams and career aspirations, and he is an unmotivated, arrogant and lazy person who does little more than bare minimum, who didn't even want me going to school after we planned to have kids. He is still the same now as he was then, and I am so thankful things ended because my life would have been over. His bare minimum love and standards were not good enough for me as an adult. It'd have been like marrying an adult child.

I like to believe I did make Tim happy, because he told me I did, but who knows. We were together 14 months before his dad died and he told me the exact same thing that KayC was told, that if his dad hadn't died, we'd still be together. I don't think that's true, because he had a pattern of this behavior in previous relationships. If I hadn't made the choice to walk away, he'd have done the same eventually. But I am glad things didn't work out with Tim either because leaving the town we both lived in for a job was the best thing I could've done for myself, and I know we would've broken up then anyways because he would not have moved with me. Looking back I realized that he may have been jealous of my career, travel and goal plans because he would talk down to me when I mentioned them or scoff as though they were unrealistic, he also tried to 'one up' me with his stories and his job, as though it was a competition. Like Joe, he was in real life unmotivated to do anything but be a workaholic at a job he was given for free by a family member. He wouldn't travel anywhere with me that was more than a couple hours by car away, but didn't want me going anywhere alone. Ugh. I didn't realize at the time these were definite signs of incompatibility (and his being deeply insecure and emotionally unavailable) because we seemed compatible on many other levels, but those were mostly just hobbies and common interests. Surface level compatibility, really.

People change like the weather, and there's nothing we can do about that because we're only human. People aren't going to tell you they're just using you, or be honest about their real intentions or tell you that they're going to leave you when their parent dies or blame you when they get laid off, these are not things we can predict, and we can't blame ourselves for taking a chance at love. After all, you can't find love or a job, or anything if you don't take chances. The only thing we can do is be diligent about our standards and looking for cautionary things (orange flags), red flags that are deal breakers and be firm that we will not tolerate them. But even then, they may still fool us. Tim fooled me, he was well-behaved, mannered, looked great on paper and our relationship progressed naturally, but it still ended like it did and orange/red flags came up that I didn't see or ignored. But I am only human, we're allowed to make mistakes. You can't say you've lived and never taken a chance at something, staying comfortable in your routine, simply surviving and never going beyond your comfort zone is a surefire way to end up with a lifetime of misery and regret on your deathbed. I don't want to live like that and call it a 'life.'

 Maybe they did love us and we made them happy for a time, but these instances made them rethink their lives and relationships, it happens to everyone at some point in their lives and it isn't unique to grief or a certain person.

--Rae 

4 hours ago, kayc said:

It's evident that he has already gone so I don't think further relationship or break up talk is necessary.  Just keep focusing on you.  We like for everything to be neat and tidy, to "get closure" but that's not usually how it goes, we don't get whatever answers we're looking for, we have to provide our own closure. 

Sometimes we just don't get answers.  We have to make our own.  I learned whatever love he'd professed for me was sadly lacking.  He was weak willed and commitment phobic.  That's on him.  He never did marry.  In later years he's made lame attempts to get me, no, not happening!  He had his chance 43 years ago.  My memory is not lacking.  This is what we must do for ourselves, we must protect ourselves and be honest with ourselves and not let anyone snow us.

What Kayc says here, is absolutely correct. Both times, with Tim and Joe, I expected them and felt they had an obligation to treat me with civility, respect, honesty and give me the closure I deserved, neither offered it.

Joe and I were engaged, living together and made plans for our future. The last year of our relationship was nothing but lies, deceit and arguments. While I was stubborn at times and didn't always do healthy things, I didn't cheat on him. He lied to me and was running after girls (he was 23, they were 18 or younger) at his job, and used his working hours as an excuse to date them. He lied for months, showed little affection, but still told me he loved me, planned our wedding with me and talked about normal couple things. Until one day he just decided he was leaving me for his 16 year old coworker. He gave all sorts of excuses, told me that he hasn't felt the same, he's too young to get married, if I had been a better girlfriend he wouldn't be leaving me, blah blah blah... Had he just been honest with me when his feelings changed and broken up with me a year prior, maybe things would've gone better for both of us. He didn't give me any closure, he just said, "I love you, but I like her...." and left. Years later he said he regrets what he did (because this girl did to him exactly what he did to me), and that he wanted to make it up to me and start over, that he still loved me, and that if he'd met me as an adult now, he wouldn't have cheated and been able to commit, etc. I was having none of it and no longer cared about his half-ass apology or regrets, he can live with those regrets, I have none. By then Tim and I had just ended and I was still in love with Tim, and didn't care to hear Joe's plea to have back what he willingly threw away for a quick, cheap thrill. But he was right, we were too young and I'm glad it didn't last because I was already outgrowing him, and would've divorced or left him by then anyway.

In both scenarios neither person offered me any explanation for their behavior. And I'm better off for it. It made me realize that their inability to show respect or take responsibility for what they do is not my fault. And, that they had no obligation to me, and I certainly don't to them. I treated them with respect because it's just who I am, who they are is nothing I can change. My only job was to love them, and I did. 

As far as your divorce goes, as Kayc said, if the marriage is over and you want out, leave it. But do not get a divorce thinking that this man will come back or that a divorce is the answer to making him act right. A divorce does not change a man.

Get a divorce for YOURSELF. Because it's what's best for YOU.

My mother stayed with my dad thinking she could help him, fix him and because she loved him, had kids and built a life with him. For 16 years, she tried, but it wasn't good enough and she was left miserable, unsatisfied, "married but single" and wondering if she'd failed as a wife because the life she imagined for them never happened. 

I'm glad my parents are divorced now. They're better off. That misery was palpable and noticeable. My mom has the degrees and life she couldn't get in her 20s and 30s, and my dad is still stuck in his ways yearning for the past. *shrugs*

My mom said: At first, you wonder how you'll survive without, and that's why you stay. But eventually things get so bad you just say "f**k it, I'll figure it out, I can't deal with this anymore." And you survive, you find a way, and it's not as scary as you thought. 

18 hours ago, Chlor said:

Rae, thank you for this. I'm sure yiu heard this before but you are wise beyond your years! You're right. He has kept in constant contact and she has been waiting in the wings all this time. If I ever had a doubt about it, her emotionality upon meeting me is proof enough.

Early in our relationship he told me that he needed to completely cut her out of his life, no contact whatsoever, in order to focus on me.. I felt that he should do this when he is ready. As a married, I felt it would be hypocritical of me to pressure him. Plus, I really believe that strongarming him to cut her off would not stop him from contacting her if thats what he wants to do. If anything, the taboo would only make her more tantalizing in his eyes. I wanted him to choose me of his own free will.

As our relationship developed, he lead me to believe she was out of the picture. Until a couple of months ago when he accidentally sent me a text that was meant for her. It was q perfectly ordinary, non romantic bit of communication. But still.

In any event, I think youre right. He engaged me in a romantic relationship, even though he knew I was embarking on a divorce and knowing full well that he was waiting for the right moment to go back to her. In fact, he still keeps his wedding ring in a tray on his bedroom dresser. Shame on him.

Focusing on this really helps me understand how and why he is not good for me.  And that helps me to keep my gaze forward. I am starring to come out of the haze - have been able to concentrate at work and enjoy dance practice.

Now the challenge will be to avoid getting sucked back in. . After 2 weeks of no contact, I just received a text message from him. It was not very coherent, contained a couple of apologies. For example e did not expect "these things" (whatever that means) to happen and is sorry it negatively affected us. It ended with "we can talk sometime". 

I cant tell what he is looking for from me. And each rereading only brings a fresh swell of pain as I imagine him back with his ex and looking for exoneration. Or to keep me as an option.  He wont get either from me. So what ireally is there to say? I got all the closure I need 2 weeks ago during our phone call when he said he had feelings for the ex. And from my online conversations with you both. I hope I can stay strong on this. 

I would start by if not fully removing him from your social media, at least removing his posts from your feed. Change his name in your phone to something like "Went back to ex" or something like that as a reminder of how he behaved, delete the number or block it all together. It's hard to do at first, but it's necessary. 

As far as him "talking to you," if he contacts you and YOU feel like talking, let him talk, but do not let him excuse his behavior with "I was just confused, and I didn't know what to do, I still wanna stay friends/in contact/get back together" etc. That's how he keeps you on the hook, and excuses himself from blame for what he's done. You already are aware that based on how he's lied about his ex being around, he's not gonna stay in contact with you only to be friends. It's okay to still love him, have feelings for him, and miss your relationship. But what's important is to not let those feelings or his empty words of endearment draw you back and keep you on the hook. I made that mistake, and no good came of it. Until he shows that he's done the necessary work on himself to deal with his problems (which may be never), he doesn't deserve you. "Want to do XYZ" don't mean sh*t, until he actively deals with his problems, he will not change.

He betrayed you and your relationship by running back to his ex, and also leaving you after his son died. For that, there needs to be consequences, like him not having access or contact of you. He's cut off. If he contacts you, Just calmly tell him that you don't think it's a good idea for YOU (not him) to be in this relationship, and that you've been betrayed. And that you don't think it's healthy for YOU to be friends or stay in contact with him at this point in time. Maybe in a few months or a year when your feelings have settled off and you've moved on, you can be acquaintences/friends, but until then you need to do what's best for YOU. If you don't reconnect, that's okay too. You'll be better off regardless if you take back your power. He's already doing that for himself, don't give up your self-worth and esteem in favor of what he wants. You have the power now. Again, until he actually does something, "want to do" don't mean sh*t.

Remember: Don't trust his words, trust his actions AND patterns of behavior. He's done this before, he'll do it again. If he wanted to be with you, he would be, and he's made it clear he doesn't. 

You deserve better.

--Rae 

1 hour ago, kayc said:

Caution:  Do not end your marriage in the hopes of getting him back.  If your marriage ends it must be on it's own merits...that it is not meant to be and not able to work.  

Letting go of that hope is the first step towards healing.  Until then you will be thwarting your progress.  I know this from experience.  The day I determined not to cry over Jim again was the day I let go of what he said and refused to let him yank me around emotionally any more.  That is the day I began my healing process.  Prior to that my tears were from an open wound that was not healing.  From that day forward my wound began to heal.  

I do not want a partner that is not all in for me.  I have been alone since Jim, so it's been many years but I have learned a lot in the years since about myself and can honestly say I'm more ready now.  I may be alone the rest of my life too, and that's also okay.  I am at peace with myself.

We create our own closure.  Most of the time we wait for closure from someone else, we do not get it.  We are not dependent on their actions to create the steps we need to take for ourselves!

I second everything said here. I have not dated or been in a relationship in 3 years since Tim and I ended, and I have done more purposeful things alone than I ever did in any of my relationships. Romantic relationships are not the end all be all to life.

9 hours ago, Chlor said:

Wow Rae, once again, thank you for caring and sharing so much of your own life. What was it like for you to grow up with a Dad who is like that?

It became noticeable as I got older, that anytime he was home, he was in the garage, watching TV or finding another thing to fix. He spent time with us, but it always seemed to come with conditions, especially as we got older. Our grandparents filled the gaps, my grandma ran a daycare, and we'd spend the Summer going to Cubs games with our grandpa so our parents had some time off from us. After my parents divorce my dad ran off for a few years and came back married. By then we had lost our house because my dad refused to help my mom with the mortgage or child support. He came back and expected my mom to share custody (to dodge CS), and they spent all the rest of my teenage years in and out of court arguing. I still didn't fully understand what was going on, but the resentment and emotional damage had already been done. I didn't really start connecting the dots until my grandpa died in 2010. In therapy I figured out that a lot of my emotional problems came from the unstable attachment patterns I had learned as a kid from my parents' absence. My siblings and I were always in sports, got good grades or went out of our way to please our parents, but it never seemed enough for them. They were always working, so without our grandma we were basically latchkey kids.

It was an odd way to grow up, but I am glad I figured this out in my 20s instead of repeating their same patterns into my 40s and 50s. I don't see marriage as a bad thing, but I am aware of how to NOT do relationships now at almost 28 years old LOL. Both from watching my parents, and from my own bad experiences. Romantic relationships and marriage aren't the keys to happiness, and it's unhealthy that society says they are.

9 hours ago, Chlor said:

I keep re reading your message because you touch on so many important points. And I agree that the way he is treating me is not good for me and that I need to find my own closure. When I read your words and can really accept this position, my level of distress goes down a lot. During these moments, I can breathe a little. Also, from this vantage point, I start to imagine how his ex must have felt being kept in his back pocket for 8 years.  Her behavior toward me is a clue that she has been strung along but also that she is manipulative herself and likes to control him.  There must be a reason they did not get back together all that time. 

Unfortunately, Im not able to hang strong in that position just yet. Like it or not, my heart waits and hopes he will come back. That the sweetness of the love we shared will carry him back to me.

I guess the other piece that keeps me hooked is the question about whether my marital status is a viable mitigating factor.  Although he promised to wait for me and I was taking active steps to free myself, it definitely put limits on our relationship. How could he not be confused about dating a married woman, especially at the worst time in his life when what he really needs is a steady partner?

On the one hand, he definitely knows I am not confused; my heart has been with him 100%. I made myself totally available after his son died. But my staying overnight was a personslly risky proposition that I was willing to take but he was not comfortable with. 

Also consider that death is a family matter.  After a more than a year together, most his family and friends knew me. But they do not know that Im married. So we dancer around that dirty secret, never daring to be physically demonstrative in front of others. In the days after his sons death, he started officially introducing me as his girlfriend, even in front of his ex. But I wasnt bold enough to hug him or kiss him in front of others as I wanted to .

He needs and deserves a partner fully at his side without controversy.  As much as I yearn for it to be me, that could only happen with a certain subterfuge. His ex was free for that and he engaged her to do so. He knew what he was doing but he was also taking care of himself.  

In short, my big regret is that it took so long for me to take action with my marriage that I wasnt available enough to support the man I love in his hour of need. And once I finally make the move, it will be too late.  

Of course, once I became fully available, he might have left me for his ex anyway, even if his son were alive. Theres no way to know. So, for now, all I can do is assume they are together and move on.  Im jealous and I hate this.

It sounds to me like you being married wasn't so much the issue because you were transparent about it and he willingly accepted that condition but knew you were getting a divorce. If he didn't want to deal with that part of your relationship, he shouldn't have engaged you in a romantic way. His inability to let go of his past and cut ties with his exes sounds like the bigger problem. Emotionally Unavailable people tend to behave like this, they surround themselves with people that love them, and they feed off those people because its easier to be an emotional tourist than it is to confront your own problems. He sounds like a person that just wants to fill his life with stories and float in and out of women's lives/relationships because it's easy for him to do and requires no emotional expense. Now that his son has died, he has to face that grief, he doesn't have a choice, and he is reacting to it in the same way that I did--He is trying as hard as he can to mitigate and ignore the grief by latching onto whoever he can, and in this case, it's his ex.

He more than likely kept in contact with her over that 8 year span, and possibly even led her on or continued to "breadcrumb" her with romantic attention and sweet nothings through the years. Why else would she be so openly loving and accepting to a man she hasn't been involved with in almost a decade?

Sure, he needs and deserves a partner at his side without controversy, but so do you. As I said, he willingly engaged in a romantic relationship with you knowing full well you were in the throws of a divorce. While the death of a loved one and a divorce are two completely different life scenarios, it doesn't excuse his behavior toward you.

9 hours ago, Chlor said:

He needs and deserves a partner fully at his side without controversy.  As much as I yearn for it to be me, that could only happen with a certain subterfuge. His ex was free for that and he engaged her to do so. He knew what he was doing but he was also taking care of himself.  

In short, my big regret is that it took so long for me to take action with my marriage that I wasnt available enough to support the man I love in his hour of need. And once I finally make the move, it will be too late.  

Of course, once I became fully available, he might have left me for his ex anyway, even if his son were alive. Theres no way to know. So, for now, all I can do is assume they are together and move on. 

Divorces take time, and they are emotionally taxing on everyone involved. I don't think your divorce not being final is the problem here. He still had strings attached to his ex, obviously, and he was just waiting for the right moment to go back to her. That is quite clear. Yes he may be grieving and confused, but again, why would he suddenly out the blue, and seemingly out of character run back to a woman he hasn't been involved with in almost a decade? Because she's always been waiting in the wings for him. You seem to be accepting blame that doesn't belong to you. You answered your own question in the last sentence here: Once I became fully available, he might have left me for his ex anyway... And that, right there, is a pillar of emotional unavailability. He dates unavailable women for a reason, because it requires little if any real emotional effort/expense. But once you were fully available, he'd probably have left anyway because he had no intention of making himself available to you. Why was he pining after her for so long? Because in some way, she was unavailable to him and he got to chase her. The thrill of the chase is another pillar of EU types. He probably won't treat her any better, he's just using her to fill a void too.

Don't let him string you along the way he did her. My ex Tim did that to me, because he's EU too. I don't doubt that he loved me, but I do doubt that what he said about the future he wanted to have with me was nothing but lies. EU people can love, they're just really really terrible at following through on anything they say in regards to romantic relationships.

On 4/27/2019 at 5:23 PM, Chlor said:

In fact, this particular ex-wife (shes the last of 3 - they share no children in common ) has interfered with all of his other relationships since their divorce 8 years ago and its sonething Ive been anxious about all along. Our relationship seems to have lasted the longest and gone deeper than the rest.

 Not long before his son died, sweetie sensed my anxiety and promised he would never leave me for her. He explained his girlfriends over the years were really good women but he did not love any of them; its harder than I realize to find someone, that its taken years and years to find me and thats not something to be taken for granted.  I am so special, good for him, etc. And so I let go my anxiety, opened my heart completely and trusted him. 

Since I havent heard from him in more than a week, I think Rae is right and I can assume he decided to go back with the ex.  And that hurts so much more than a total retreat which, knowing him, seems unlikely but is still remotely possible.  I am a very strong person who can handle the all the moods and walls that go up with grief, except being left for the ex. Maybe it would have happened eventually, even if his son was alive and well. But thats also impossible to say.

Im still chewing on whether his grief can be a mitigating factor. My friends all say that he isnt accountable for crazy reactions during these initial weeks;  that he and the ex divorced for a reason; give him time and space, which I am doing, and he will return. Then I remember and believe in all the love he professed and get hopeful.  

But that hope also keeps me attached to an outcome with him. And so the pain rushes back in force each time I look at my phone and see that he has not contacted me. Because, truly, I have waited a lonely lifetime to meet a someone that I love and with whom I want to share my life. Thats him. Clearly he does not value me the same way. And thats truly devastating. Even if he does come back around, how could I trust him? If I reengage with him after being devalued in this way, could he possibly respect and treasure me as I deserve?

Please forgive me for sounding like a broken record. These are the questions that keep spinning like a tornado in my mind. Obviously my hearts desire is for him to return to me. But I know you guys are right that I need to focus on my own healing. I believe you both that time will help. In the meantime, what else can I do make that happen? Im so tired of walking wounded and I need my strength to deal with my marriage, the dissolution of which will surely come with its own grieving process.

I don't mean to sound judgmental, but your ex sounds like my father in how he handles relationships. My parents divorced 19 years ago now, and to this day he still claims to love my mom and not been able to get over her, that he "would've done anything to fix their marriage and that it wasn't fair of her to just divorce him without trying first..." except, she did try and he had 16 years and 10 thousand chances to fix their marriage, and he squandered all of them because he assumed she wouldn't leave him. He's now been married and divorced 3 times, engaged 6 times, he's 52. He claims to have loved every single woman, and I'm sure he did, but his emotional unavailability, emotional problems/trauma and his unwillingness to fix himself became his own destruction. Every time he got divorced or broke off an engagement, he'd make a joke about getting back together with my mom. *eyeroll* It sounds like your ex is trying to fill his emotional voids/wounds with relationships in a similar way as my dad. He wants my mom because she's familiar to him, and she put up with his nonsense the longest, and because of their kids, has been the only constant female presence in his life, despite my mother wanting nothing from him except to be a good dad. Maybe he ran back to her because she was familiar to him, and as you said, he kept her in his back pocket because he knew she'd always be available to him, and he may still love her. He sounds emotionally unavailable, too.

Don't listen to your friends in that he has no culpability for his behavior. He absolutely does. Grief may blind us temporarily, but after so long, the behavior becomes a conscious, deliberate decision. He is absolutely culpable for going back to his ex, unless she held a gun to his head and forced him, or kidnapped him, he knew exactly what he was doing. Don't ever let someone try to legitimize bad behavior, as if you were deserving of it, because that's what they're saying to you. "Let it slide because he's sad, he'll come back after he licks his wounds and has had his fill of her, it's not his fault." NO. That's just emotional manipulation.

Even if he didn't go back to his ex, what he's doing isn't fair to you. There's no magic formula to make them come back. I did the same with Tim, gave him time and space, even though he never actually broke up with me, he did the opposite by saying he wasn't breaking up, and then disappeared. It sounds like that's what your lover is doing, and even if he hasn't gone back to her, he may not return, or he may be someone you no longer want to be with/not who you thought he was. He may also string you along, as kayc and I have both experienced because he's confused, so he takes it out on you. Don't let someone else's confusion become yours. Misery loves company, but so does confusion. Part of the reason it was so hard for me to let go of Tim was because after his father died, who he really is came out, and I didn't want to believe he could be so cold and cruel. I'd see flickers of the man I fell in love with, and that's why I got back together with him, I was confused and in denial because I loved him, but it was short lived and I was left heartbroken by the same person twice. Don't ever let someone tell you they don't want you twice. Holding onto the belief he may come back will keep you stuck. You deserve happiness too, and it's okay if it's not with him. Ditch the belief that there will be closure, or an outcome with him, because he may never give it to you, and expecting him to treat you better and that you deserve closure will only hurt you in the long run. You need to create that closure for yourself. Learn to answer your own questions, as Kayc and I had to because our exes were never going to give us the answers. Maybe the idea of someone else giving us closure is a myth, but who knows. Joe finally answered my question, 5 years after the fact. By then I was having none of it and no longer cared, because I had forgiven him for my own sanity, not his.

You mentioned not wanting to walk around wounded. There's no quick fix to this. The same way there's no quick fix to losing weight or physical wounds. Wounds take time to heal, and sure, you could fill them temporarily with dating, food, exercise, whatever else, but void filling will only make the wound deeper, and eventually infected, as this inability to face your grief and let your wounds heal will cause that sadness to bleed onto everything else in your life. Speaking from personal experience, this route will only make everything worse. Waiting 4 months to seek counseling after Dave killed himself was a mistake that nearly ruined my relationship and life. Let yourself sit with the grief, cry, feel, seek therapy, find new hobbies, join a club, gym or activities group. These things will help keep your mind off constantly licking the wound (like a cone on a dog/cat after surgery), while also letting it heal properly. Don't feel bad or ashamed for feeling bad, you're hurt and only human, you're allowed to have feelings about his behavior, as well as your own grief from his son's death and losing your relationship. 

It will take time. Took me about 4 months to stop crying regularly after Tim ghosted me the second time. I'd have to drive by his apartment, where we went on our first date, etc and for the first few months it was like reopening the wound each time. But eventually, I said to myself that I wasn't going to cry over him anymore because he didn't deserve it, and neither did I.

In hindsight, we would've ended anyways. But it took me well over a year and moving to a new state for a job and reflection of my life now compared to then to come to this realization and conclusion. 

Read the thread "Why would someone end a good relationship while grieving?" from Miri in 2011. Scroll onto page 3 of the thread, read Ron B.'s two posts in response to what Miri said. He gives some amazing advice.

It won't be this way forever. But you can't rush it. As much as you may want to, you need to feel the heartbreak in order for it to start healing.

--Rae 

22 hours ago, Chlor said:

Greetings, I decided to reach out to this community after reading most of the stories of love and loss that are strikingly similar to mine in many ways. First of all, I would like to convey that I am so sorry that any of us has to go through this kind of pain. It is almost relentless; the feeling that I cant breathe, cant focus, waking me up at night, squeezing my heart and cutting me off from any sense of joy.  Is this what grief feels like? Before I share about my situation, I would also like to ask that you try to suspend judging me for aspects of my situation that some may find objectionable as my heart is pure with love and so broken by loss.

Ill start with the controversial stuff. Im in the process of separating from a long term marriage that has been troubled for decades. Over the years, we developed completely separate lifestyles, which reduced the amount of fighting but resulted in estrangement.  His passion for performing arts keeps him singularly focused on the next gig and life on the road while I maintained stable employment and raised the kids on my own. As the kids got older, I developed my own interests and connections that kept me busy but at the core lonely and ashamed of being a married woman , always alone, essentially living a single life. I longed for a partner to share my life with.

Aside from the usual fear of change, the main factor keeping me from breaking up the household is my younger child (I have 2). She is now 19 and recently went through a serious rebellious phase where I almost lost her.  Given all that she was into, Im lucky and grateful that she lives at home, is doing very well now, and going off to college in a couple of months. The family unit has been an important a stabilizing force and Ive been reluctant to break up the household before she moves out.

Don't feel bad about this, my mother did the same thing with my mostly absent father. When he wasn't working, he was out gallivanting with women, his friends, working on home improvement projects, buying "project cars" and anything else he could do to avoid being present. They were married for 16 years and had 4 kids. After so long living the "married single life" and raising 4 kids and her adult husband, my mom just said "enough" and divorced him.

22 hours ago, Chlor said:

So we went back and forth but our love deepened further each day as I worked to find a way out of my situation. We started making plans for the future that we were both excited about. I explored many options before finding a lawyer that laid out a good plan. I was all set to have the conversation with my husband a couple of weeks ago while my daughter was on a class trip abroad. Then something unthinkable happened.

3 days before she was set to leave for her trip, we took his adult son out to dinner. The son was on home leave after 8 months of sobriery at rehab far away. It was to be his last night in town and we had a wonderful dinner together before going to our separate homes. The next morning, the boy was found cold in his bed with foam coming out of his mouth. At some point on the night, he relapsed and died of an overdose.

When my sweetie told me what happened, I raced to him.  His sons body was still in the house as well as several relatives, his sons mother and her husband. We hugged each other for a long time. Then the family set about making calls to tell people what happened. 

Every ounce of my being wanted only to take care of my sweetie. It did not feel right fir him to spend the night alone in the house where hours earlier he found his son dead. Ipacked an overnight bag, prepared to tell my family eveything. But he didnt want me to stay. Instead, his most recent exwife (they divorced 8 yeare ago) slept on the couch

For the next few days leading up to the funeral the house was full of friends and relatives. He started formally introducing me as his girlfriend and I finally met the ex wife.  It was uncomfortable at first as I sensed that she resented me abd felt competitive. I did my best to be gracious toward her and we seemed to get along well enough.

Emotionally, my sweetie was all over the map. When everyone left and we were alone he would alternate between extreme love and appreciation, flashes of anger, remorse, etc. At the end of it all, he would tell how good I am for him and reassure me that I have his heart. 

At the funeral reception, he had several flashes of anger toward me about nonsense (ex I ate the brownie) but we parted on loving terms. It hurt my heart but I stayed strong when I was with him and my heart stayed with him 100%. I returned home feeling so wrought and like I could not continue living like this. In the morning, I had "the conversation" and broke up with my husband. At my lawyers advice, I had arranged a place to stay to be a haven where I could stay when things got tense without giving up presence in my own home.

My sweetie did not know anything about my move. I didnt want to stress him out. But sonehow, as if by magic, he seemed to shift. He didnt want to see me again until the weekend. We kept in touch my text, but now I became the iniator and his responses were flat and devoid of love. 

After 3 days, we got together for dinner on Saturday. In person, it was affectionate and close. He shared about his feelings of grief and I told him about how I launched. I felt conforted in his presence that we would both be okay.

That was the last time I saw him. He made plans for the next day that he would not tell me about. His messages were sparse and he repearedly cancelled plans to get together to talk saying he cant see me, was tired and couldnt focus. This went on for a week before I called him and asked what's going on. He said his exwife had spent a lot of time at his house and he us confused about his feelings, doesnt want yo get involved in my marital conflict, and he cant think or focus. He said that he had not gotten back together with the ex, nor had they been intimate, but he feels he needs to make q decision. I let himknow that I would not compete with his ex and so would stop initiating contact. The last thing he said was "I do love you".

That was more than a week ago and I have heard nothing from him. I feel that he is lost to me. The grief, compounded by my own grief for his son, feels unbearable. Reading your stories, I see that it is not uncommon for a grieving person to shut love out. But still, Im devastated that he did not protect our relationship, which was beautiful and had a future.  That he chose to shut me out in favor of his most recent ex (they do not share any children) who bickers with him and left him mostly because she did not approve of his parenting.

I feel so broken inside. I know I need to move ahead with legally dissolving my family but hardly have the strength to function at all. I sleep on the ciuch at home, cant focus at work and keep making mistakes. I repeatedly replay all these events and berate myself for not making myself more available earlier. I am on pins and needles both longing for and dreading he will get in touch. So far, nothing.

How does it happen that one day I am the most special person hes waited his whole life for and the next day nothing. How could he just throw me away? How can I go on?

Sorry this has gotten so long. And for any writing errors and typos as Im using my phone for this post.  Love and gratitude to anyone that has read this far and has any insight to share.  

 

I acted very similarly towards my boyfriend after my best friend killed himself 8 years ago, I had just turned 20. I was all over the place emotionally, neglected him physically and abandoned our relationship. We did not break up, and were living together. But after 4 months of me being depressed, angry and neglecting myself and him, he was right to want to break up if I did not seek therapy. We worked things out once I started taking therapy seriously, but it did damage our relationship. We ended things a few years later for unrelated reasons.

My ex-boyfriend Tim behaved this way after his dad died 3.5 years ago. At first, he told me he didn't want to break up, but then disappeared for three months after. He then tried to reconcile, and he treated similarly as your lover is doing to you. He would be hot n cold, burst out at me in anger, treat me less than loving, and wouldn't answer my texts for days. I finally decided to walk away after he stood me up at dinner one night and didn't reply to my texts. That same day he told me he loved me before we both left for work.

I beat myself up over this for a long time after with the "what if's," please don't do that to yourself. It won't be this way forever, but it's hard to see this when you're in the thick of loss and grief.

I wish I could answer your question of "How does it happen..." but I can't. All I can say is that his behavior is not your fault, or a result of anything that you did. His inability to to see your worth does not mean you don't have any. He is clearly having some issues dealing with his current situation, but his leaving you for someone else (even if it's a knee-jerk reaction to his son's death) should be a massive red flag. Some months from now, his feeling may be settled and he will have to sit with what he's done to you. Until then, he may not be able to give you any answers or explanations, and he may never give you any at all. Don't wait for them. It will only keep you stuck.

You can go on. It just takes time for the tears to stop and the mental agony to subside.

1 hour ago, heartbrokenj said:

I am speaking to a professional. They told me more relationships end due to significant family/friend deaths than due to infidelity. Talking to this professional has been helpful.

I am pulling away. Not her. This isn't her fault. It's not mine either. I just am not myself and feel like I need a ton of time and space to adjust and find the new me, my new life. All my deepest feelings are different. Everything is different since Mom died. It's profound. Nothing seems real right now. The life and person that I had and was before seems like a myth that never happened. There's a new life and new me I have to create and move into. As much as I don't want to, I know I have to. In my bones I feel it would be more beneficial to do so alone, but I just don't know.

Has anyone out there been in my shoes? Has anyone had a similar experience? And what happened?

Thank you, Kay and all. Sending love and life . . . .

Yep, been there. It's good that you're speaking to a professional, and that you're aware of how you feel. It's a start. It sounds like you've talked to her about how you feel? If not, you may want to and you can mutually decide what's best for you both, or how to end your relationship together.

My grandfather and I were best friends, he and my grandmother basically raised us because my parents worked multiple jobs and weren't home much. He died in 2010 of liver failure and cancer. It affected me in an odd way because I was 19 and had never lost anyone before, so I didn't really understand what was happening. My boyfriend was supportive, and while I behaved kind of strangely for a while and was really sad, I didn't break up with him. Part of it was also that I was expecting his death, as his liver was failing and he was in hospice for a few months.

9 months later, my best friend killed himself and it sent me spiraling. I dropped out of school and stopped going to work, for weeks. I laid in bed for days at a time replaying our last conversations and wondering if I wasn't a good friend to him. Time just stopped, reality stopped and I didn't want to go back into the world. I was not right in the head for months. My boyfriend Joe understood, for a while, but my behavior went on for months. I was cruel to him and emotionally abandoned him and our relationship. I stopped caring about everything. Joe should've left me, but he didn't. He gave me an ultimatum after about 4 months of my constant crying, laying in bed, angry outbursts and neglecting myself. He told me he was going to leave if I didn't seek professional help. At the time, I resented him for it because I was so obsessed with my own feelings that I didn't care about how my behavior made him feel. I was angry with him for being unable to understand how I felt, but my anger was misdirected because deep down I was just angry at myself, confused and inexplicably sad. He was right to leave, but I agreed to see a counselor. We eventually worked it out once I started taking therapy seriously, but it damaged our relationship. We ended things two years later for unrelated reasons, but I do feel that this situation played a part in how we ended.

While I wasn't fully aware of how I was behaving at times, Joe made it clear that my behavior was hurting him, and that he hated seeing me like that. Part of me wanted to care and be better, I just couldn't help the loneliness, carelessness and emptiness I felt.

If you feel that being alone is what's best for you, you need to tell her. Don't leave her waiting in the wings, giving her hope or confusing her with sweet nothings. My ex-boyfriend Tim did that to me after his dad died in 2015, and it was devastating. He told me he just needed some time to sit with his loss, and that he didn't want to break up. A few days turned into months of radio silence from him, and him begging me to reconcile once I had finally started to accept that our relationship was over and move forward. He is emotionally unavailable but used it as an excuse to treat me poorly; You seem to be emotionally unavailable as well, but you aren't trying to hurt her and are aware of it, which is a great thing.

The difference here is that you didn't wait to seek therapy, and you're aware of how you feel and how it's affecting her and your relationship. Instead of being cruel and just dumping her, you're actually trying to spare her pain and keep the relationship. But if it's at the expense of yourself, you need to have a discussion with her about it.

Remember, you need to do what you feel is best for you. But, I'd caution against making rash, emotionally-fueled decisions. Do talk to her and your therapist before deciding what to do. It doesn't make you a bad person for breaking up with her, it just means you need time to figure things out and that time is best spent alone because you're going through a major, life-altering transition. Life isn't linear and things change at the drop of a hat, and sometimes, so do people.

Things get better. The grief will just change, it won't go away. Think of it like an over-stuffed suitcase. At first, it's unmanageable, cumbersome and you're struggling to carry it. Eventually, it becomes a regular suitcase as you get used to the weight. Then it becomes a more manageable "carry-on" suitcase, then a backpack, and eventually a card you carry in your back pocket. You know it'll always be there, and sometimes you feel it more than others, but it doesn't weigh you down like it once did.

-- Rae 

On 3/23/2019 at 7:55 AM, Tom19 said:

Hi Rae, 

Hopefully my story helped you in some way. I believe we are the same age too if your username is your year or birth? 

Im glad you’re happier now and from the posts I’ve read last night you seem to be doing a great job of helping people. 

It did. And yep, it appears we are. 

Glad to see you're doing well, Tom. When I first found the forum in 2015, you and Miri's stories were the first ones I read. It's been three years since my story took place and I too am in a much better time in my life than I was then.

--Rae

9 hours ago, Nessey18 said:

My boyfriend lost his mom a couple weeks ago. At first he was fine. He didn't cry. He felt relieved. But now he keep violently raging at me? He's hit me and broken my stuff. I reacted by getting angry and breaking his stuff. Is it normal for things like that to happen? And he has severe mental health issues but is refusing to go to appointments to get medicine he needs. What do i now? How can i help him? She i leave since he's hit me? Open to any advice. Plz don't be mean. I've posted on another website and it wasn't helpful cuz they insulted my boyfriend and i.

This behavior is not normal. Physical violence is NEVER ACCEPTABLE.

It is normal to have an adverse reaction to a death, yes. We all grieve differently. However, he crossed a line and you need to walk away. Physical violence is NEVER OKAY. If he is refusing help for his mental health problems, he shouldn't be taking them out on you. WALK AWAY. You are not his scapegoat, therapist, or punching bag. His refusal to deal with his mental health IS NOT YOUR FAULT OR PROBLEM.

You need to love yourself first. He's made it clear he does not love you. Yes, he may be grieving his mother, but that is not a reason to assault or abuse you. Yes, he may have mental health problems, but that is not a reason to abuse you. It will not get better, you cannot make him seek meds until he makes the choice to get medication for himself, and even then, there's no guarantee he won't abuse you further. LEAVE HIM.

Don't ever let someone, including yourself, make you believe that physical violence is acceptable. IT NEVER IS. It doesn't matter if he's high, drunk, depressed, has mental problems, whatever, IT IS NOT OKAY.

You may love him, but he does not love you. If you don't walk away you are dooming yourself to a fate that no one deserves. You cannot change him, putting up with abuse is not love, "ride or die" or "standing by your man," it is abuse. DO NOT be his "ride or die," because you will end up dead.

You need to leave him. He crossed the line. Please, seek help from a women's shelter, domestic violence crisis center/hotlines, or talk to a family member or friends for help.

https://www.thehotline.org/ 1-800-799-7233

I say this as a person who lived it. My moms ex-husband was an abusive alcoholic. Even when he was going through rehab and was "sober" and on medication for a week or two, he was still abusive to us. He never completed any stints in rehab. First he targeted us, her kids, and my mom turned a blind eye to it because it wasn't happening to her. Once we all came of age and left, that's when he started targeting her and she sought help from the police and DV counseling and assistance. Abusers have an end game, and it is to stop you from leaving by any means possible. My mom took him back 5 different times during their marriage after vowing to leave him each time. After the final time, he stalked her for over a year. He then tried to kill her by malfunctioning her car engine so it started on fire and nearly exploded.

He is not going to change. Do you have a support network of friends or a family member you could stay with? If you are living together, seriously consider staying with a friend. Please tell someone close to you, and if need be, call the police. Be wary about involving his family, as they will more than likely defend him before they defend you.

He did it once, he will do it again. Stop it before it escalates. Leave.

--Rae 

On 3/13/2019 at 10:17 AM, kayc said:

It's not okay that they did this to us, whatever they were going through...didn't make it okay.  But it's how they deal, and is what it is.  We were not deserving of this treatment.  I hope you know that.

I've come to the conclusion that in my case, everything worked out for the best, even though the way I experienced it may not have been the best...he had issues, and is just now, nine years later, beginning to get help for his issues.  After a hiatus, we reconnected as friends and I can be supportive much better as a friend...he wasn't ready for a committed relationship with anyone, I can see that now.  Now I can let his issues be his to deal with.  I know their grief (his over his mom, your ex' over her grandma) is all encompassing in the beginning and takes much time to process and get through.  I'm glad you can see that and are allowing her the space to do this as she must.  Still...I'm sorry for your pain and it's effects on you.  You seem a strong person and I'm confident you'll get through this.  Gosh, at four months out, I think that was the turning point for me, doing what I must for MYSELF.

I've come to the same conclusion with both Tim and Joe. It would've ended regardless of how much longer I'd have stayed in either relationship. I would've left or divorced Joe had we stayed together, and Tim either would've dumped me eventually, or I him to pursue the life I have now. The life I've built for myself, full of adventures, my career, education and better more supportive friends than I had in my hometown. 

But, Kayc is right. We didn't deserve what they did to us. Nor did we do anything to make them behave as such. Don't let yourself, or others make you believe that you did something to deserve it. 

--Rae 

Hey Vandal,

I had been lurking here before I posted for over a year because I couldn't make an account at the time. It was hard to read all these stories that were so similar to mine, but in reading them I began to understand my feelings, that I wasn't alone in this, and how to learn to finally let go of Tim.

With these situations, hindsight is always 20/20, but at the time, we simply reacted the only way we knew how, with love. Having been on both sides of the spectrum, the griever and the dumpee of a griever, it is a strange feeling.

I too felt guilty for a long time for both doing what I did to Joe, and for having to listen to my own heart and head in my situation with Tim in my choice walk away.

15 hours ago, Vandal said:

I can’t say I’ve ever gotten satisfactory closure from previous breakups, so it’s not something I need.  But despite my increased understanding of all of this, and the clean break…the pain of it all is still massive.  Some days are still bad.  Most of them aren’t anymore.  The number of triggers that make me think of her seem endless.  One thing I still can’t shake is the overall disappointment, from the broken dreams and lost future.  That actually haunts me more than the sadness.  My past relationships followed a more typical lifespan.  Things would usually get rocky, or fizzle out, or feelings fade, etc.  I could usually see a breakup coming.  But this one was so sudden and confusing.  And like others have said, I felt kind of embarrassed, too.  It was embarrassing telling friends and family how amazing everything was…to all of a sudden it’s over. 

There are lots of lessons to be learned from these situations.  And lots of emotions that need to be processed and dealt with.  I know my pain is nothing compared to hers.  But I can’t feel guilty anymore in acknowledging my own hurt.  For a long time I felt selfish for being sad.  But I have to face my own feelings in order to move on.  I know she didn’t meant to hurt me intentionally.  Our journeys have totally diverged.  The coldness and emptiness I felt from her at the end, which saddened me at the time, makes more sense to me now.  This is how she chose to protect herself.  It’s not something she wanted.  I hope she’s doing better.  I’ll be more mindful if I’m ever in this situation again, and more accepting of whatever the eventual outcome will be.  Letting go is for sure the hardest thing to do.  Understanding why is second.  Even when your brain knows you must let go, the heart struggles.  But like everyone has said, the sooner you can actually do it, the better off you’ll be.  One step at a time.

I never needed closure because I was accustomed to not getting it. But same with my situation with Tim, I thought our relationship was getting serious, and it was hard to accept that not only was I wrong but it turned out to be mostly lies from him. It was confusing and disappointing and those feelings stuck around for months afterward. I'd say it took me 8 months or so until I was fully in a place of acceptance that we weren't compatible, for the triggers to stop, to be fully aware that my feelings were gone and the reminders of him to fade.

I had to cut contact with his brother and sister who are both good friends of mine (they introduced us) for a few months because every time I would talk to them, I would just be reminded of our failed relationship. They understood at the time and were really upset with Tim over how he behaved with me, but they're glad I have moved on. They even said he didn't deserve my kindness or love, and maybe they were right, but it happened, so it is what it is.

If I am ever put in this situation again, I like you, am better equipped: Walk away. I won't second guess, I won't feel guilty, I'll just walk. As harsh as it might sound, its only necessary.

15 hours ago, Vandal said:

 Even when your brain knows you must let go, the heart struggles.  But like everyone has said, the sooner you can actually do it, the better off you’ll be.  One step at a time.

Exactly. Our brain already knows what our heart doesn't want to accept.

--Rae 

57 minutes ago, Samuel Jordan said:

Thanks for everything.I had initially asked her if she wanted a break,(before reaching out to this site) and she replied today by telling me that not everything is about me.She told me to stop being irrational and that she only needs space. I've agreed I'm giving her space.She said she doesn't blame me for anything.

But why is she talking to others well but shutting me out.

Ps. I've decided not to contact her, I'm okay right now giving her the space she needs.

To answer your question about why shes talking to others and not you I will reiterate what I said in my OP: A romantic relationship comes with expectations, standards and reciprocity requirements that are different than platonic or familial relationships. Her friends aren't expecting her to spend all her spare time with them or talk to them everyday, and they don't come with the expectation of romance, regular check-ins, time spent and the level of intimacy a romantic partnership does. She may also be using them as a way to relieve her constant thoughts of her father passing, and that's normal to do in a friendship. They aren't hanging out with her for the expectation of romantic reciprocity that she can't give, and you would be. That's the difference. She may just feel spent and taxed during her grieving, and does not have the capacity to continue to give you the emotional, physical or mental attention a romantic relationship requires at this point in time. As she told you, it isn't about you. Don't try to make it about you. I know it hurts and it's the worst kind of rejection there is, but its what she needs right now.

Sidenote: Do not assume that giving her space is a guaranteed formula to make her come back to you. Don't sit around waiting in limbo for her to figure out what she wants. Do not feel obligated to put your life on hold waiting for someone else to get right. She will heal herself on her own time and it may take months or years for her to feel normal again. If she loves you, she wouldn't expect you to wait, and don't feel obligated to even if you love her. Give yourself a set time to wait, maybe a few months or so, whatever you're comfortable with. But after that, you need to start working towards moving forward for yourself. Waiting around for a relationship to return that isn't guaranteed is nothing but regret waiting to happen. Time wasted is time wasted. Yours is just as valuable as hers.

--Rae 

Do what you can to seem indifferent about it when in class. Behave as normally as you possibly can and save your visible emotions for your friends/therapist/alone time. It sounds harsh, but showing her that you're falling to pieces won't make her take you back. Stop trying to get her friends to help you or talking to them about how sad you are. As bad as they may feel for you, they can't force her hand in talking to you, even if they do tell her how sad you are, it may come off to her as you trying to use her friends to manipulate how she feels. Doing so will only make her resent you further.

Grief is weird. It makes people selfish and hyper-sensitive to how others behave and talk to them. Yes, your feelings matter too. But as I stated before, don't take it personally or try to make this about you. It's her, not you.

Unless you can bring back her father, you cannot do anything help her through this. All you can do is what she asks of you, and as of right now, she has asked that you leave her be. This isn't a rom-com or "princess and her white knight savior" fairytale story. Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm, there is no valiant reward for that kind of self-sacrifice.

--Rae 

First off, I am sorry this is happening to you. If you read most of the stories here, you begin to see a pattern.

The first thing I am going to tell you: Stop contacting her. No response is a response. She has made it clear she wants to work through this on her own and there is nothing you can do. I know it sucks to feel so helpless when all you want to do is be there for them.

Secondly, the reason why she is able to continue with her friends is because there is less expectation and the relationships are different. A romantic relationship involves expectations that she may not want to or be emotionally able to fulfill right now because she feels it is too much after losing her father and now having to deal with the grief and fallout from it. Losing parents and grandparents especially, is life-altering. Not to be offensive, but you've also only been together for 4 months and you were probably still in the "honeymoon phase." I understand that you love her, but you need to give her space, she may not ask for it directly, but obviously pining after her and contacting her is not working.

If you have the time, look for a guy named Tom's thread about he and his girlfriend Fern, it's probably a page or two back by now as its a few years old. The exact same thing happened to him. The thread by Dino, a guy from recently, same thing happened to him too with a different loss.

She has made it clear to you that she wants space, give it to her. As painful as it is, and as hard as this is to not take personally, understand this isn't about you, don't try and make it about you. She will only resent you for it. Stop placing pressure on her to contact you, the tighter you squeeze the easier it is for her to slip away.

Go back to your life, hobbies and friends. Join a gym, pick up new hobbies, take a class, if you're in college consider joining a club or group. Remove her from your social media, any reminders of her from your home and change her name in your phone. Now, I am not saying delete her and throw away all the stuff she gave you, what I am saying is for the time being, remove it from your immediate sight/grasp. It will only make you feel worse about it if every time you see a Facebook update, shes laughing with her friends.

I have been on both sides of the coin, after losing my grandfather to cancer and best friend to suicide in a year, my life was a mess and I emotionally neglected and abandoned my boyfriend Joe. He understood that I just needed time to feel normal and right again, but we did not break up because I told him I didn't want to, we also lived together so the dynamic was a bit different. However, that does not excuse how poorly I treated him. Again, it had nothing to do with him, I was just an emotional wreck that did not want to confront my problems, I also became very depressed, so it was extremely hard to find any joy in my life, despite his best efforts to help me, I was the only one who could help myself, and for a while, I actively chose not to. In the end, Joe nearly left me, and he was right to because I was being terrible, cruel and selfish because I was angry and he didn't deserve it. I went to therapy eventually and things got better for me.

My ex-bf of nearly two years, Tim, abandoned me after his father suddenly died. He told me he didn't want to break up, but then stopped answering my texts/calls. After a month of this, I stopped contacting him and concluded our relationship was over. 3 months later he comes back trying to reconcile, I agreed because I was still in love with him even though I should not have. He was still deeply confused, cruel and his emotional outbursts made it clear he did not want to be with me. He ghosted me a second time after agreeing to meet for dinner one night, earlier that same day we were at his house and he told me he loved me before going to work. I haven't spoken to him since, that was 3 years ago.

I will reiterate: Stop contacting her. It makes you look desperate, and pining after her is not going to bring her back. She has to make that decision on her own. I understand that you love her, but if you love her you need to respect her wishes and stop contacting her. She doesn't want you to be there for her, and you need to accept that. You didn't abandon her, she abandoned you. She is doing what she feels is best for herself, and for the time being, she cannot handle a romantic relationship. It is a mistake to keep engaging her. Do what is best for yourself, again I am not saying go date someone else or stop loving her. However, she will be less inclined to contact you the harder you push her, and it may have the opposite effect you intend, if you continue pushing her, you may push her away for good.

--Rae 

To answer your question as honest as possible: YES, it is. A few reasons as to why:

It wasn't a break. A relationship break is maybe a few days or a week away from one another, not 3 months, and you've agreed you're still committed and together. She broke up with you.

We are not obligated to wait around for someone to "figure stuff out," and don't ever feel like you should be. Your life, feelings and time matter just as much as hers, if she was expecting you to put yourself on hold until she gets right, that's on her. You are not obligated to help carry someone else's emotional burdens and it should never be expected of you. If all she's done is remain in the same place and hasn't used the time you've been apart to work on herself and deal with her grief, why would she expect that you waited in the wings this whole time? That's just selfish and unfair to you. She hurt you and did nothing to fix the harm, so her suddenly coming back to you and expecting you to take her back is really callous, and it is something you need to figure out if you actually want to pursue again, as there's no guarantee she won't break up with you again in a few months. It should be seen as a privilege that you're even considering reconciling, not a right of hers or an obligation of you and your time.

This behavior is a common theme among all our stories, and none of them ended well for us. Our SO dropped us like a hot pan, then attempted to pick us up as "friends" or rekindle our relationships some months or weeks later. Which then led to manipulation, emotional abuse, confusion, hurt and prolonged our own heartbreak because they were disingenuous as to their motive behind their behavior. After so long, this behavior becomes a deliberate decision.

It is impossible to "continue where you left off" as if nothing happened, and it would be a serious disservice to YOU and your relationship to do so. Why? Why does she get to dictate that it wasn't a big deal? She left you, refused to acknowledge that you needed space, and now wants to get back together as though it didn't affect you and everything is okay because she says shes ready now? 3 months is a long time, and a lot can change in this time frame. You need to ask yourself, and be honest; Is she only saying this because she's lonely and misses companionship, or does she actually miss you and your relationship? Is she going to therapy/counseling/support groups? Has she made any tangible progress in working through her grief in a healthy way? Have you acknowledged and talked to her about how her behavior made you feel, and has she acknowledged that her behavior is not acceptable? Is she acknowledging her grief, emotional needs and root causes of her behaviors? If the answers are no, you need to re-evaluate whether or not this is healthy for either of you.

It is impossible to be friends with someone when one of you wants more than friendship. The fact that she dumped you and then attempted to force you into being friends by texting, showing up where you are and still attempting to speak to you, and refusing to respect your request for distance is a problem. She needed space and you gave it to her, but she wouldn't respect your need for it? That in itself is a massive red flag. It sounds to me like there was some co-dependency brewing and that she may lack boundaries, and that is not healthy either.

Trust takes a long time to rebuild once it is broken. And these situations should definitely be deal breakers, because they certainly are trust breakers. If she believes that you can just pick up where you left off as though your relationship, bond and trust was not damaged, you need to question why. She broke up with you. That is effectively severing any bonds you had.

If you do choose to pursue your relationship again, proceed with caution, tread lightly and DO NOT just go running back to her with forgiveness. Repairing a relationship, and the trust it held takes time, work and effort. If she isn't willing to take things slow and respect your need for a slower pace while she works to gain your trust back, that should be a red flag too. You don't just fall back into it as though nothing is different. Technically, you're now beginning a new relationship because the previous one was ended and it has been months in between, long enough for both of you to feel differently about one another, or have dated other people. DO NOT let your history with a person, love for them or guilt cause you to settle or fall back into something that you don't feel is right for you. History means nothing if its only going to repeat itself.

I say this as a person who experienced just about the exact same thing. My ex Tim and I were together 20 months before his father died. He didn't even tell me his father died, his brother told me. I had to track him down and find out what was going on. We talked and he told me he loved me and didn't want to break up, he just needed a few days to sit with the loss, but that he'd let me know what he needed from me and when the funeral was. A few days turned into weeks of ignored texts and phone calls. Those few days turned into 3 months of radio silence from Tim with occasional Facebook stalking. After a month, I concluded our relationship was over and began to try and move forward. 3 months go by and he texts me telling me how sorry he is and that he wanted to work things out. We met up and talked, for a while I was reluctant, but I let my hurt and love for him cloud my judgement. His behavior, cruel words and emotional outbursts at me during the few months we lasted made it clear he was still deeply confused, and did not want to be with me. But I myself was still hurt, confused and just fell further into the hole with him. To no surprise, history repeated itself and I was left with no choice but to walk away. Embarrassed, hurt, confused and even more heartbroken than before. I was worse off for it because I was way too trusting of him, and didn't want to believe the man I fell in love with, who I thought he was, was a sham and a lie. I then learned he had a history of ghosting his girlfriends and other deep seated problems.

Do not let yourself fall into this cycle of on again/off again toxicity, because that's what it ends up becoming. If she isn't willing to slowly work at rebuilding the foundations of your relationship, respecting your needs, boundaries and feelings, or understand that there are issues needing to be addressed so you can progress, it isn't worth pursuing.

You asked a great question because her reaction to this may very well be a precursor to how she may behave again when faced with similar hardships in the future. Another reoccurring theme among our stories is that we discover our now exes had these red flags all along, and that we ignored them, and that grief simply expedited our break-ups and gave them an easy out, but it didn't cause them directly. That is why I said do not rush back into things or commit to this right away because she doesn't seem to care that its been three months and is only interested in "forgetting about this and moving on," which will end in disaster, or you'll end up in an "on/off situationship," and that's not commitment, a relationship or healthy. Time wasted is time wasted. Time may heal your heart, but it won't give you back the months or years you spent wasting waiting, pining and hoping your relationship will get better, for things to be like they were in the beginning or that she'll magically change her ways and treat you the way you deserve. Only you can make the decision as to how long you're willing to wait, and how much you're willing to tolerate bad behavior. If you don't see tangible signs of change or self-awareness of her mistakes, poor behavior or willingness to work on her flaws, cut your losses.

--Rae 

23 hours ago, kayc said:

It's kind of like withdrawal, it really is.  At first the pain is tremendous.  We went no contact immediately after he broke up with me, and that gave me a chance for healing and once my head cleared I had better clarity.  That enabled us to be friends later on, otherwise it wouldn't have worked.  And it doesn't work in many cases, you have to both be on the same page, no mixed messages or secretly hoping for something else.  If that's the case, better off staying no contact forever.  

Your peace of mind is the most important thing.  Give yourself time to heal.  This reminds me a bit of dieting...sugar is addictive.  It takes two weeks to get it out of your system.  So if instead of getting off it finally and completely you dapple with it and "let yourself have a little bit" once every two weeks, you are self-sabotaging and making it harder on yourself, that's just enough to keep the addiction going!  Better to go off completely and finally.

Everything Kayc said!

It is like a withdrawal, and it is excruciating, mentally and in some ways physically. It could be this way a few weeks, or a month or two, but eventually, you will stop crying every day. With things like this, you need to go "cold turkey." There's no easy way out, you just have to rip the band-aid off, and you've already taken the first necessary step in the right direction. I felt this exact way when both Joe and Tim left me, like I was drowning in sadness that would never end, but eventually, the tears did dry and I stopped obsessing about getting back together, and started focusing my hurt into other productive things: my own self-worth and self-care. It takes time, but its worth it in the end. I am friends with Joe now, after exiting his life for about 4.5 years and creating distance. We chat every once in a while, are FB friends and have gone to dinner on occasion when I visit home, but that's all it ever will be again. I don't see him as the man I was meant to be with and/or marry anymore, now, he's just a boy I once loved from my past. I haven't spoken to Tim in 3 years, and truthfully, I am fine if we never do again, he made it clear that he was untrustworthy and flaky, and I don't want friends that I can't trust.

--Rae 

I absolutely agree with everything KayC has said. To answer your question about "overreacting," no, you are absolutely not overreacting. You are simply reacting to his terrible behavior and disregard of you, as any normal person would. An example of an overreaction would be if you damaged his property over how he's behaving. 

My ex Tim was about a year older than yours when his dad died 3 years ago, and he reacted very similarly, minus the threats of suicide, while I was not pregnant, he still behaved and treated me as though I had done something wrong because his grief was overwhelming, even though he insisted he did not want to break up and it wasn't my fault, he stopped answering my calls/messages for months, nor would he talk to me at all. It was ridiculous, frustrating and heartbreaking how he became so unrecognizable seemingly overnight. But it seems this behavior is not as uncommon as we once thought.

As far as him not acknowledging your pregnancy, that's just ridiculous. I understand he's grieving, but that's not an excuse to run from his responsibilities. You can't run away, he shouldn't get to either. Do seek child support if he's going to behave as though his child is your problem to deal with. I've got friends who were put in this same situation by their exes (minus the death), and a few of them pay like $20/month in CS and never see their kids, it's ridiculous. But if he refuses CS, these days as KayC said, in many states you'll get your license pulled and/or go to jail after so many missed payments.

Do consider talking to your mom at some point, you will need to tell her. Who knows, maybe she'll be supportive. But also look into therapy for yourself, these situations are traumatizing, and I can't imagine the added stress of pregnancy being thrown into it. I understand he's your ex, but as you said, it's more about you wanting him to be around for the baby versus your relationship, and it sounds like he's just trying to ignore it as if it'll go away because he doesn't think he can deal with it. It's childish and ridiculous, you can give him the benefit of the doubt for a while, but remember: After so long this behavior becomes a deliberate conscious choice on his part.

--Rae

2 hours ago, kayc said:

I don't know what's going on inside of him, but I'm sure he'll love the baby when he comes...sure hope so anyway! 
When my daughter and her husband were grieving the loss of their child, he left her, now he's back but says their marriage is done.  He started drinking and he is not at all the same person.  I think grief was the trigger, I've seen it happen before.  She's 36 and it means she won't likely get to be a mom now, this has been going on for two years.

I wish I knew why some people, it does something to them.  I do think it'd help you to get some counseling, with or without him.  You take care of you...and that little guy.

Absolutely, kayc! Whether or not he loves that baby is not your problem, but his. You don't need his permission to have a child if he willingly participated in the act to make one. If you feel that what he's done/said is unforgivable and that you cannot move on together as a couple, you need to make that decision for yourself. Do not let others guilt you into tolerating someone's poor treatment of you or staying with someone you don't feel will love and protect you (and your child) the way you deserve, as they vowed to the day you were married. I am not saying to leave him, but do weigh your options and seek counseling to give you clarity and figure out what is best for you.

Sidenote: My mother stayed with my father after being guilted relentlessly by her family and church members because they were married and had just had a baby, she now admits that even though she loved him, she should have left him after the first time he was caught cheating and ran off on her when my sister was a newborn. She said the only things of value she left that marriage with are her 4 children, and a better idea of a life she did not want to live anymore. She has since gone back to school, has a Masters degree now and is living the life she wanted to live but never got the chance to as a young adult. They were married 16 years, its never too late to start over. 

To add to your inquiry KayC: I think part of why they behave this way isn't necessarily the loss itself, but the issue is unresolved problems from their past (especially childhood/formative years) that are in some way related to the person they lost. All of our stories have a common thread: the person had underlying issues that stemmed from their upbringing and/or traumatic events from their formative years. Intertwined to this is unhealthy mental/emotional coping mechanisms, habits and lifestyle as an adult, until grief forces them to remove the masks they wear and exposes their true selves. A thread from a girl named Miri exhibited her exes abandonment issues, ambivalence and resentment of his mother that led to him thrusting those burdens unto Miri, then leaving her when his mother died. My ex Tim had the same issues, only with both abusive parents, and it was evident by how he would react with confusion when I wouldn't yell at him if I was upset or we were arguing, and he would say "You're gonna yell at me, aren't you? Why aren't you angry? You should be." Your ex Jim seems to have had similar issues with codependency, and his being an Aspie only exacerbated his struggles. I myself struggled with abandonment, emotional unavailability, codependency and serious anger issues after my grandfather and best friend died, and it nearly cost me my mental health and relationship. My father was an absolute wreck when his adoptive mother passed away and when my mother's dad (my grandfather) passed, but wanted nothing to do with his biological father's funeral and didn't really care much when he passed. There's a commonality among our stories on this forum, it just takes time for us to make peace with it because we love them, and are willing to look past their flaws and glaring red flags. Humans may be seen as unpredictable because their behavior has differing extremes, but much of their behavior pattern itself is predictable because it usually has a cause/trigger/reason, and it is very evident in this forum. Emotions at times may seem illogical, but there is (usually) always an explanation/reason rooted in the cause of said behavior.

--Rae 

28 minutes ago, kayc said:

I am so sorry you are going through this.  I'm sorry he's treating you this way, there is no excuse, not even grief excuses bad behavior and treatment.  I strongly encourage you to see a counselor to help you figure out what you want to do.  I especially want you to know that what you want does not depend on him...you have the ball in YOUR court to decide for yourself what you want to do moving forward...it's up to him then to decide if he wants to get on board or not.  Too often we give the other person charge over us, over our lives, how things go, I just want you to know that YOU can make decisions without waiting on him.  Do not let him strongarm you into doing something you aren't comfortable with.  I do hope you'll get help with this, a counselor doesn't tell you what to do but helps you figure things out for yourself, helps you see from another perspective, things you hadn't thought of perhaps.

I do hope you'll feel free to come here any time, even just to vent...we're here, listening.

I absolutely agree and could not have said it better. Do not give away your power of autonomy and self-governance to another person (spouse or otherwise). As KayC said, a counselor will help you hash out what YOU want to do going forward, whether or not your husband wants to get on board with your decision is his own problem, not yours. Make the best choice for YOU, as he is already doing what he feels is best for himself without regard to how you feel, or how his cruel words hurt you.

--Rae 

While both of the situations that brought me here ended in heartbreak, I now consider them to be a positive outcome and "happy ending."

Six years ago, just before turning 22, the man I'd been with 7 years, lived with and was engaged to, cheated on and left me for another girl. I was devastated, heartbroken and had to rebuild my entire life from scratch. It took a lot of emotional work to move on from an imagined future that would never be.

Two years later, I graduated from college after spending a semester abroad in Scotland and traveling The UK, Spain and France. For me, this was life-altering and made me realize my future was no longer 'ours,' but mine to build in any way I saw fit, and that's exactly what I've done since. Joe and I are friends on FB now, and talk from time to time, I don't hate him anymore. In fact, I'm grateful for him showing me exactly what I did not want in life. Had we married, we'd be miserable and divorcing now. We were both spared this fate. I consider this a "happy ending."

I began dating Tim in 2014, he watched me walk the stage as I graduated from college. His father died in Fall 2015, and he shut me out and left me, not once, but twice. Heartbreak once again ruled my life, but on top of that, I was miserable in other ways: my crappy job, unsupportive friends, and lingering, constant loneliness. 6 months after I chose to exit his life, I was offered a job in another State and moved away. It was one of the best things I could've done for myself.

Since college I have visited 19 countries solo, I speak 3 languages fluently, and have rebuilt my life on MY terms, without a significant other. I am the happiest I've been since I was under 18 and have gained a lifetime of perspective and wisdom, and I wouldn't change it for a thing. While my romantic relationships may have ended, what I've gained from losing them is more fulfilling than either relationship would've ever been.....

I consider my outcome a Success Story & Happy Ending, too. Just like KayC. Just because a relationship ends does not mean the world does.

--Rae