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novick23

Boyfriend Left Me After His Mother Died, Relationship Was Great Before

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I have been best friends with my boyfriend for 3 years and partners for a little less than a year. He's a separated father of three adult children, none of whom like me and all of whom actively try to convince their father to end our relationship. His children are angry about their parents separation and have barely spoken to him since. His ex-wife is acrimonious and continues to spout vitriol about him to his kids. His kids are emotionally, financially and physically abusive to my boyfriend. He ex-wife was the same way and actively tried to prevent him from having a relationship with his mother.

Our romantic relationship has been great. We were unconditionally loving and supportive of one another, he told me God put me on this Earth just for him, that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. He was active in my children's lives, knew my family, and told my parents that they didn't need to worry about anything (I live out of state) because he loves me and would take care of me. I love him with all of my soul and genuinely believed what he told me, and that he loved me the same way. We talked every day, made plans in all of our free time, and just loved being in one another's company. 

His mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer 1.5 years ago, and took a turn for the worst the week before Thanksgiving. We went to see her on 11/17 and she was fading in and out of consciousness. I helped his step-father attend to his mother's personal needs, held her while she was using the bathroom, and cradled her when he was cleaning her. She died the next day. I was with my BF when he got the call, drove him to his brother's house to tell his brother in person, and cared for him for 8 days. His children didn't attend their grandmother's funeral, so I was the only support he had that day. During these 8 days, we were intimate, talked a lot, made plans etc. On day 8, my kids came home from their dad's, so my BF couldn't stay at my house anymore. 

During the first 3 days, communication was almost normal in frequency and subject matter. By the end of the week, he told me he had been deep in thought and really needed to clean his life up. He said he hadn't seen any of his kids or grandchild since his mother's death, and he needed to see them and he needed to reconcile his relationship with them. He said he needed to make his house a "bachelor pad" and it couldn't look like anyone else lived there, so he asked me to come get all my stuff (clothes, toiletries etc). He said his children don't like me, and he needs to dedicate all of his energy right now to reestablishing a relationship with them. I asked if we were breaking up, he said it wasn't about that and that he still loves me, he just needs time and space. He asked me to not contact him in any way until he reaches out to me. He said that if he is with his kids and I called or texted, it could affect things and he needed his phone communication to be "clean". He said he can't take any pressure right now and this is just the way things need to be and I need to accept that. He won't tell me its over, just that we can't spend as much time together as we used to (we are spending no time together now). He said he doesn't know what his future is. I asked him if I should return his house key and his belongings from my house, and he said "no", that I was taking this wrong and he just needs time. The last time we talked in person (4 days ago), he hugged and kissed me and told me he loved me and hasn't reached out to me since. 

I am dying inside. I can't stand the idea of him reconciling with his kids knowing (and having witnessed) how they treat him. I would love for him to have a relationship with his kids if it is mutual and healthy, but they haven't changed or had therapy, so I am pretty sure it will be shitty treatment for him. My life and future as I knew it and imagined it is over. We had talked about building a house together, getting married, he talked about how "we" will raise my kids and that he would be their parent one day. Now, he won't even acknowledge that our relationship existed, nor will he speak to me. I oscillate between debilitating heartbreak for myself and him and wanting to track him down and beat him to death for doing this to me and my kids. I know he is suffering the most profound loss of his life, but I believed that my support of him, and our strong loving partnership, would see him through this process. 

I don't know what to do with myself. He hasn't officially ended our relationship, but it seems pretty over to me. I have his things at my house that eat a hole in my heart every time I see them. What's even worse is that we work together, and have seen one another during the day where he poker-faces our interaction and pretends like nothing ever existed between us. What the hell is going on, and how can a person (even in profound grief) discard someone they claim to have loved more than anything and wanted to spend the rest of their life with? What's more, even if he did "come back", I have lost so much trust in him and that crushes my soul even more. 

Please help me. I feel horrible, move between profound longing for him and wanting to hurt him, and I feel horribly guilty for feeling this way since his mother just died and I know he is suffering. 

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8 hours ago, novick23 said:

What's even worse is that we work together, and have seen one another during the day where he poker-faces our interaction and pretends like nothing ever existed between us.

Ugh.  I know men grieve differently than women do; we need time and space, it's true, but what he is doing to you is emotional abuse.  Yes, he is suffering, but he's dumping his pain onto you and creating more pain.  Besides that, he's giving you mixed messages: Go away, but don't return my stuff.  I see you at work, but I act like you're a stranger.  That then creates more pain.  That's emotional abuse.  I suspect you know this because you even used the word "discard" to describe how he is treating you, like you're disposable.

 

8 hours ago, novick23 said:

I have lost so much trust in him

Of course you have.  I would be concerned if you still trusted him after this treatment of you.  As you say, anyone who behaves like this --and worse, treats you like you no longer exist--even in the foggy days/weeks after a loss of a parent or anyone important, well, there is something wrong-- but it's with HIM, not with you.  I will defer to more experienced folks who will no doubt chime in soon, but I hope you will realize it's not about you, it's about him.  None of us here can take away the pain you're feeling, but the pain is real.

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There is a whole bunch of threads similar to your situation in Loss of Love section.  I was engaged for a year and my fiance broke up with me when his mom was dying.  It's as if they can't focus on anything but their grief and cut out the person closest to them.  It really hurt.  He is in charge of whether he has a relationship with his kids and what he's willing to put up with, so I'd let that go, it's his to worry about.  Right now you are hurting and bewildered, so it might help to place your focus on you.  I know it's confusing, it takes time to reconcile what has happened, much less how to go on from here.  It helps to keep active (my house got REALLY clean!).  Spend time with your family and friends and do things that help YOU, like going to the gym, taking a class you've always wanted, trying a new hobby, etc.  My advice is to get off Facebook for a while, unplug from  him, it will help you get over him...the more he's dangled in front of you the harder it is to heal.

Like Kieron said, it does make us feel disposable, and it really hurts!  But know you are NOT disposable, you're a good human being with a lot to offer, and you deserve so much better than this!

I encourage you to read the other threads in Loss of Love section, so you can know that what he's done can be consider common behavior for some who are grieving.  Out of the possibly hundreds of threads there, maybe only one or two have made it with their relationship intact...we're better off facing reality than hoping for something that's not happening.  Put your energy into YOU.  And I couldn't say it better, it really is HIM, not YOU!

I hope you continue to come here and post.  This is my story: 

 

 

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Thank you all for your support. It is both encouraging and depressing to read how common this is, and that there seems to be a consistent pattern. He and I spoke at work yesterday, and he said me being hurt and "having an attitude" is a problem for him, and that he really needs me to be his friend at work. The more I think about the situation, the less love and compassion I feel and the more I want to scream at him. Even if anything he shared or promised in the past was real, his current behavior makes it seem like it was all a lie. I feel like he exploited the trust of my kids, my family and me and now wants me to pretend to me ok to assuage his guilt. I know grief makes people do out of character things, and I struggle to remind myself that he is not himself right now. Feeling devastated, heartbroken and enraged is exhausting. 

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On 12/5/2018 at 1:21 PM, novick23 said:

Please help me. I feel horrible, move between profound longing for him and wanting to hurt him, and I feel horribly guilty for feeling this way since his mother just died and I know he is suffering. 

This sounds almost identical to what happened to me (minus the marriages and children). First and foremost I will say, don't feel guilty for having feelings. You were both in a relationship that he chose to end. His decision effected both of you greatly and you are absolutely allowed to be sad and angry over it.

On 12/5/2018 at 1:21 PM, novick23 said:

During the first 3 days, communication was almost normal in frequency and subject matter. By the end of the week, he told me he had been deep in thought and really needed to clean his life up. He said he hadn't seen any of his kids or grandchild since his mother's death, and he needed to see them and he needed to reconcile his relationship with them. He said he needed to make his house a "bachelor pad" and it couldn't look like anyone else lived there, so he asked me to come get all my stuff (clothes, toiletries etc). He said his children don't like me, and he needs to dedicate all of his energy right now to reestablishing a relationship with them. I asked if we were breaking up, he said it wasn't about that and that he still loves me, he just needs time and space. He asked me to not contact him in any way until he reaches out to me. He said that if he is with his kids and I called or texted, it could affect things and he needed his phone communication to be "clean". He said he can't take any pressure right now and this is just the way things need to be and I need to accept that. He won't tell me its over, just that we can't spend as much time together as we used to (we are spending no time together now). He said he doesn't know what his future is. I asked him if I should return his house key and his belongings from my house, and he said "no", that I was taking this wrong and he just needs time. The last time we talked in person (4 days ago), he hugged and kissed me and told me he loved me and hasn't reached out to me since. 

I am dying inside. I can't stand the idea of him reconciling with his kids knowing (and having witnessed) how they treat him. I would love for him to have a relationship with his kids if it is mutual and healthy, but they haven't changed or had therapy, so I am pretty sure it will be shitty treatment for him. My life and future as I knew it and imagined it is over. We had talked about building a house together, getting married, he talked about how "we" will raise my kids and that he would be their parent one day. Now, he won't even acknowledge that our relationship existed, nor will he speak to me. I oscillate between debilitating heartbreak for myself and him and wanting to track him down and beat him to death for doing this to me and my kids. I know he is suffering the most profound loss of his life, but I believed that my support of him, and our strong loving partnership, would see him through this process. 

I don't know what to do with myself. He hasn't officially ended our relationship, but it seems pretty over to me. I have his things at my house that eat a hole in my heart every time I see them. What's even worse is that we work together, and have seen one another during the day where he poker-faces our interaction and pretends like nothing ever existed between us. What the hell is going on, and how can a person (even in profound grief) discard someone they claim to have loved more than anything and wanted to spend the rest of their life with? What's more, even if he did "come back", I have lost so much trust in him and that crushes my soul even more. 

My ex-bf Tim didn't even tell me his father died, he acted fine for a few days and then just disappeared. A week later I finally tracked him down after showing up at his door. He told me the same thing yours did to you: That he loved me, he didn't want to break up, he's been in deep thought and needs to change his life because hes so unhappy (he never mentioned this in the 1.5 years we had already been together), he feels existential pressure that he can't get rid of, and that he just needs some space and time to deal with the funeral and his feelings. He never broke up with me. After that conversation he disappeared from my life. He resurfaced 3 months later to apologize and try to reconcile. But by then I already had so many doubts, I was deeply hurt, confused, mistrusting of him and angry. I made an attempt to reconcile with him, but after about 3 months, he disappeared again after ditching me on a dinner date. That very same morning he told me he loved me as we left his apartment to go to work, I never heard from him again and was left with no choice but to walk away from him and completely exit his life. This was 3 years ago.

I made the mistake of keeping Tim as a friend on my Facebook and social media, something I should not have done and don't recommend you do. At this point in time, it effectively is over. He just is too much a coward to tell you. I mean no offense when I say this, however: You need to do what's best for yourself and create distance, go no contact and deal with your feelings, perhaps see a counselor. If this is how he wants to behave, then show him there are consequences and go dark on him. Don't believe it is your fault, it absolutely is not; IT IS HIM, NOT YOU. It is just what he believes he needs right now. He made this choice and left you to deal with the fallout, and that is not fair to you.

The first time Tim left me I was in shock, confused, heartbroken and I cried for weeks. The final break up, I did the same for months, went from being absolutely inconsolable to raging angry. It took a couple months for the intense feelings to subside and about 4-5 months for the constant tears to stop. It was really hard because I grappled with beating myself up for believing his lies, being stupid and being so vulnerable that I let him do it twice. If he ever does come back to you, you need to reevaluate him and take into account how he behaved when something such as this, or another bad/traumatic experience may happen in the future. Will he behave this way again? Has he learned from his behavior and dealt with his problems in a manageable way? These are questions you need to ask yourself if he does try to reconcile, especially if this behavior lasts longer than a couple of weeks. I failed to do this and rushed right back into things and it did not go well. You can tell a lot about the character and true colors of a person by how they react and behave when faced with things like grief, debt, illness, job loss, etc.

On 12/5/2018 at 1:21 PM, novick23 said:

I don't know what to do with myself. He hasn't officially ended our relationship, but it seems pretty over to me. I have his things at my house that eat a hole in my heart every time I see them. What's even worse is that we work together, and have seen one another during the day where he poker-faces our interaction and pretends like nothing ever existed between us. What the hell is going on, and how can a person (even in profound grief) discard someone they claim to have loved more than anything and wanted to spend the rest of their life with? What's more, even if he did "come back", I have lost so much trust in him and that crushes my soul even more. 

Easily. Feelings are mostly irrational and when in a hyper-emotional state, people tend to behave out of character. But be aware that behavior like this after a certain amount of time becomes a deliberate conscious choice. My grandfather died when I was 19 and I did not abandon my boyfriend or our relationship, if anything we grew closer. Nine months later, my best friend killed himself and it sent me spiraling. I dropped out of school, stopped going to work for a few weeks, became depressed and pretty much abandoned my relationship, but we still lived together. This went on for about 4 months. I was just angry/sad all the time, I would throw crying fits and tantrums, lash out at my boyfriend and neglected him physically and emotionally. After one particular instance he gave me an ultimatum and said that if I did not seek professional help, we were not going further with our engagement and he was moving out. He was absolutely right to do this as it was unhealthy for both of us and unfair to him. I resented him at first for making me do such a thing in my fragile state, but after about a month of weekly sessions, my raging feelings started to go away.

As I said before, IF he does come back, don't just invite him in as though nothing happened. Do not make yourself and your relationship a revolving door of forgiveness he can walk through any time he chooses. Make him talk to you about why he behaved this way, tell him that his behavior hurt you and your trust in him, and evaluate whether or not he's dealing with this in a healthy way and whether or not you will be able to forgive him and work on rebuilding the trust together. While I asked Tim to talk to me about it, I didn't do enough and I failed to remember that he will not stay in a place he truly does not want to be. His actions made it clear he did not want to be with me, he was confused, hot n cold and would push when I pulled. It was exhausting, painful and only exacerbated the heartache I still hadn't recovered from because I could never shake the voice in my head saying he was going to disappear again. I was right, he did disappear again.

On 12/5/2018 at 1:21 PM, novick23 said:

 I know he is suffering the most profound loss of his life, but I believed that my support of him, and our strong loving partnership, would see him through this process. 

Everyone here believed the same and wanted to be the exception. That's why we came here, to look for hope, answers and some sort of light at the end of this seemingly endless tunnel. You could be his dream woman, but he has chosen to work through this alone, and forcing yourself on him, even with the purest of intentions would only push him farther away.

 He could be falling into a hole, and even if you held out your hand, he still wouldn't take it. All you can do now is stop yourself from falling into the hole with him. He's got to learn to deal and live with this loss, and he has chosen to do so alone, at least for now.

--Rae :)

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22 hours ago, novick23 said:

Thank you all for your support. It is both encouraging and depressing to read how common this is, and that there seems to be a consistent pattern. He and I spoke at work yesterday, and he said me being hurt and "having an attitude" is a problem for him, and that he really needs me to be his friend at work. The more I think about the situation, the less love and compassion I feel and the more I want to scream at him. Even if anything he shared or promised in the past was real, his current behavior makes it seem like it was all a lie. I feel like he exploited the trust of my kids, my family and me and now wants me to pretend to me ok to assuage his guilt. I know grief makes people do out of character things, and I struggle to remind myself that he is not himself right now. Feeling devastated, heartbroken and enraged is exhausting. 

Then act cordial and professional about it. But do limit your interaction with him at work if possible. Do not "be his friend" at work if that makes you uncomfortable. Be a co-worker and nothing more. Again, he chose to behave this way and now there are consequences for it. Tim and I did not work together, but I had to act professional and all business with Tim both times I confronted him, he wouldn't respond to me otherwise. Showing them that you're waiting, pining, hurt and yearning for them will only make them think less of you. It sounds like a game, I know. But do your best to poker face your interactions with him, and save your emotions for your friends and counselors. Until he actually wants to have a conversation with you about this topic, consider it off limits. Any talk of it, emotional outbursts or even jokes may have the opposite effect you intend.

I am sorry things have to be this way. It hurts, and it changes the way you date and who you trust. I often wonder if I was just a placeholder for Tim, because he behaved towards the end as though I was just a void filler, even though his behavior said the opposite the 1.5 years we were together. Everything started to seem as though it was nothing but lies, and in a way, they were.

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3 hours ago, novick23 said:

I feel like he exploited the trust of my kids, my family and me and now wants me to pretend to me ok to assuage his guilt.

That's your intuition speaking.  Sometimes it's called "gut feeling" or "a hunch."  Listen to it.  I'm sorry for this betrayal of your trust.

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Rae, thank you for pointing out to her to not feel guilty for having feelings.  Good for you!

@novick23  It's very hard that you work with each other and have to see each other every day.  Can you transfer somewhere or even start applying for other jobs?  He should at the very least own responsibility for having hurt you and yes of course you feel deceived.  I just got off the phone with my ex (Jim)'s daughter...he's in the hospital with CHF and in talking with her I've learned just how irresponsible he's been, to the point of dysfunction.  I really dodged a bullet!  I told her I felt everything worked out as we should and that we didn't know each other well enough when we got into a relationship.  I'm glad we're just friends, not married.  I still care about him though and would like to see him get better and his life to work out, but he has to do it, I can't.

In a way I can't help but feel all of us here dodged a bullet!  It may have hurt like hell, we didn't understand at the time it happened, but in looking back things become clearer.  Things we didn't see or acknowledge, well, they're there, we can see them now.  I know Rae and I have learned a tremendous amount through our experiences.  The best thing I hope for you, novick, is to get clarity and also peace and healing.  Draw from your strength, it's there, reach deep down inside and pull from it, you'll be amazed how strong you can be, that you're an overcomer.

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On 12/8/2018 at 10:03 AM, kayc said:

Rae, thank you for pointing out to her to not feel guilty for having feelings.  Good for you!

@novick23 He should at the very least own responsibility for having hurt you and yes of course you feel deceived.

Thank you Kayc, for pointing this out as well. His refusal to acknowledge your feelings as a result of his actions shows that he is acting completely and utterly self-centered. That should be a clue to you that he doesn't feel you're allowed to be effected by his behaviour, and that he doesn't really care if you are or not, at least not at this point in time. Tim acted the exact same way, as if I wasn't allowed to feel hurt by how he acted because I wasn't the one grieving. Even though, I was grieving the loss of our relationship, he didn't perceive it as that because he was grieving a different loss, a feeling he didn't believe I understood.

Even though the losses are different, the feelings are still the same. It is absolutely wrong of him to behave as though your feelings don't matter. They DO matter. If he cared for you and valued you the way he claimed, he'd be looking to you for support, even if just as a friend for the time being, but he wouldn't have left you as he did.

When my bestfriend died, my boyfriend Joe understood that for the time being, I just needed support and shoulder to cry on, a friend. I didn't want to be intimate, I just needed support and for him to act as "normal" as possible. A good partner will reciprocate as well as look to you in their time of need. Grief is very personal and can make a person self-centered, but as I said before, after so long their behavior becomes a deliberate choice. I absolutely took advantage of Joe's love after a while because I thought that as my lover, he would put up with my behavior and that he was supposed to. I was wrong, and started being a terrible girlfriend to Joe because I was hurting. I actively stopped myself from working through my grief and the traumatic experience of finding my friend's body because I didn't want to admit I was lost, didn't know how and didn't want to learn. In behaving this way, I forced Joe to give me an ultimatum. Tim did the same, your boyfriend has, and so did I for a time.

You have the choice to accept this behavior and wait for him to see if he'll come back, but then that shows him you're willing to put up with bad behavior, and he may take advantage of that. Tim did this. Don't do it by falling into this trap. I know it feels like you've been decieved. We all felt this way, and in a way, they did deceive us by being everything we could want, then abruptly running from us at the first sign of a problem. The death of a loved one has a weird way of making people rethink their lives, relationships and priorities because it makes them confront demons, secrets, insecurities and their own mortality. Not saying the way he behaves is acceptable, just that grief makes people think and behave as though they're walking through fog. 

He sounds like he needs some emotional work, has dysfunctional boundaries and has baggage he needs to work through, and that baggage is not yours to carry. If he truly acknowledged his flaws and issues and tried to work through them as he should, he wouldn't be running away from you when forced to confront them. Ask yourself why you'd want to be with a person who abandons you at the first sign of trouble and when things get hard? That shows serious immaturity and mental weakness on his part. His refusal to confront his own problems is not a reflection of you as a person or spouse; it is absolutely his own fault. Please do not get buried in the "abandoned woman" mindset, otherwise he will have thrust many of his problems unto you, and you will be buried in abandonment issues for months to come. Please consider talking to a counselor about your feelings.

 

--Rae :)

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Incidentally, Rae, one of the things Jim's daughter told me was that he didn't feel he was good enough for me.  

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6 hours ago, kayc said:

Incidentally, Rae, one of the things Jim's daughter told me was that he didn't feel he was good enough for me.  

When someone says this to me, it makes me wonder these things: 1. Is he saying this to absolve himself of guilt or self-responsibility for treating you poorly? 2. Is he using this as an excuse to not commit, to lead you on, to manipulate, confuse, to break up with you or with other ill intent? 3. Does he actually feel this way or is he trying to make you feel bad for him?

These are questions I'd ask myself and assess the situation based on his behavior, patterns, words and actions. I've had guys try that line with me because after a few weeks or dates, they're too cowardly to actually say they don't want to see me anymore or aren't interested. I also had one try it as a means to manipulate and "love bomb" me (a manipulator/narcissist tactic) into giving him what he wanted (ex. He asked for money and a key to my house after our second date. Stating "you're perfect, you'd make me a better man because I am not good enough for you. I want to take our relationship to the next level.") We were not in a relationship and had only met a few weeks before this. I blocked his number and ran for the hills. But unfortunately, some women (and men) fall for that ploy and end up financially supporting that person. Thankfully, I knew better and ran away.

Be wary when people say things to you that sound so endearing, especially if they've behaved poorly, are untrustworthy or you don't know them very well.

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I think I know Jim well enough to know he is not manipulative, he, as an Aspie, is very blunt and has no filter, when he says something he means it.  And all the more so because he didn't say it to me, but to her.  But you are right, a person needs to question that particular phrase because often people will use it as a fake excuse.  It was something he told her a long time ago as one of the reasons he didn't try to get back with me...he'd also told me he didn't want to hurt anyone else again and if he could do to me what he did when his mom was dying, what if something else happened and he did it again?  He has not dated in the eight years since, nor have I.  It's a thought that definitely occurred to me as well.  If someone does something once, what's to stop them from doing it again?  Not that he'd want to, but since he focuses on one thing at a time...if one of his kids was in an accident, he'd likely break up with whoever he was with to take care of them.  So I'm glad he realizes that about himself to prevent hurting someone again.  I think he said it perhaps out of guilt feelings for what he did to me.  He was right.

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On 12/11/2018 at 7:26 AM, kayc said:

I think I know Jim well enough to know he is not manipulative, he, as an Aspie, is very blunt and has no filter, when he says something he means it.  And all the more so because he didn't say it to me, but to her.  But you are right, a person needs to question that particular phrase because often people will use it as a fake excuse.  It was something he told her a long time ago as one of the reasons he didn't try to get back with me...he'd also told me he didn't want to hurt anyone else again and if he could do to me what he did when his mom was dying, what if something else happened and he did it again?  He has not dated in the eight years since, nor have I.  It's a thought that definitely occurred to me as well.  If someone does something once, what's to stop them from doing it again?  Not that he'd want to, but since he focuses on one thing at a time...if one of his kids was in an accident, he'd likely break up with whoever he was with to take care of them.  So I'm glad he realizes that about himself to prevent hurting someone again.  I think he said it perhaps out of guilt feelings for what he did to me.  He was right.

In your specific case, it seems legitimate, sorry I didn't clarify that. And absolutely, if they do it once, they'll probably do so again, especially if its to the same person. At least he recognizes that flaw in himself now and won't hurt anyone else again. It just sucks that his realization had to be at your expense, but at least you've regained your peace with it and understand you would not have lasted anyways.

--Rae :)

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I don't know that we wouldn't have lasted (I'm pretty tenacious) but it would not have been easy.  Like I said, he's a good person but not husband material in my estimation...not someone who procrastinates so much they don't pay their bills in a timely manner, I couldn't handle that, don't know anyone who would like that.  To handle money so irresponsibly as to put yourself in danger of becoming homeless...no, that's a serious flaw.  But he's kind hearted, sweet, mellow, has a lot of good traits.  Ever heard the saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath (water)!", well that's kind of how I feel with him, he makes a good friend, but as a partner, that would be tough.  Everyone looks for different qualities in a partner, and he has some of the qualities I was looking for, but carried to an extreme, any trait becomes a weakness rather than a strength.  Balance is so important!

He got to come home from the hospital last night after five days, he's pretty glad to be home and taking seriously the life changes he's going to have to make with his diet.  It's going to be a challenge until he gets used to it, but I've never heard him so serious about anything before, I think this was really a wake up call!

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