Grief Group Meeting Tonight

[niamh]

My Mom's friend recommended this to her a while back after she struggled when losing her sister. You have to be passed the 1 year mark to attend so it starts tonight.

My Mom really wants to go, I feel nervous about it but I said I would at least go a couple of weeks with her and just said I'd see how it goes.

The thing is its only on for 13 weeks, so part of me thinks what's the point if it's over after 13weeks, last thing I need is something I want/need to be no longer available if it does go ok. I really don't know the details of exactly what it is, it doesn't sound like the groups you guys have in USA which seem more permanent.

I just worry about what people will be saying, not sure I can handle a room full of people being upset and talking about their pain etc.........it's different to here because here we can all come and write and read when we want but face to face with all that is another story. Am also a bit anxious about hearing anything that might annoy/hurt me.....I think my fear is people talking about "staying positive" "you have to have hope" etc

The timing of it sucks in a way too, tomorrow is the dreaded 17th and this week the actual days match up to the dates and I always find that a little harder & I've just been irritable & snappy last 2 days and just wanting to be on my own so now I have to sit in a room full of strangers for an hour having no clue what they may say.

I know people say that you should always go to more than the first, people often seem to not "like" the first one so I've told my Mom I will give it maybe 3 weeks for her sake.

Added to it is my Mom is going to visit some family this weekend for 2 nights so I'm also dreading that. I'm glad for her but the thoughts of her not being at home is horrible & will have me thinking "this is what it will be like someday". And my birthday is the following weekend, so right now it feels like everything is piling up at the same time. Trying to just take it day by day but it's hard when there is so much in the next 2 weeks.

anyways, will let you know how the group goes, hate this nervous feeling.

((hugs)) to all,

Niamh

[MartyT]

Niamh, dear, I understand your reluctance to attend this grief group tonight, and I so appreciate your willingness to try it anyway. That is the very definition of courage. I'm also pleased that you're even willing to attend at least three times before deciding whether to continue. Good for you! I know this is an important step for you, Niamh, and I am very, very proud of you! ♥

[niamh]

thank you so so much Marty.

[sunstreet]

Dear Niamh,

I am so very proud of you too! I am grateful that you are willing to go at least three times before deciding. I know how frightening this feels for you. Good for you to feel the fear and do it anyhow.

Just imagine us all alongside as you face an unknown.

Blessings and Courage, Carol Ann

[niamh]

thanks Carol Ann.

So I went last night, ended up going on my own as a good friend of my Mom's who she doesn't see that often (her sister has cancer so she's caring for her) called and asked my Mom to call down for a chat. Mom really enjoys those nights so she decided to go, I was glad for her. She said she'd come to this next week though.

Because I was so anxious about it I just couldn't wait another week so I bit the bullet and went on my own.

It wasn't as bad as I'd expected, it was a very small room and only a handful of people which threw me somewhat. When it came to telling "my story", the words wouldn't come so they just carried on talking and came back to me and I was able to talk. It's like I have to remove myself emotionally from it to be able to talk, wasn't really news to me but it reminded me how raw this still is to me. The rawness is not something people see everyday but when it comes to talking out loud, it still floors me how real it is.

I guess it felt "good" to have some nod face to face and get what I was feeling, made me know I am not the only person in this country who feels like this, because I was beginning to think so!! Even just the committment to go again next week freaks me a little but I'm trying not to think of it for now.

They did talk a bit about the so called 5 stages of grief with another added "letting go"...........that really annoys me because there so much more to it and those words letting go I cannot deal with. So I did feel it was a bit backward in that sense and I just hope they won't be the focus of it.

so as I said will just see how it goes, thanks again for the support

Niamh

x

[MartyT]

Niamh, dear, I'm so pleased to learn that, even though your mother didn't accompany you, you decided to attend the support group anyway. Good for you! Again, that took great courage on your part, and I am proud of you!

I must say that I don't blame you for feeling annoyed at the mention of "stages" and "letting go" during the course of your meeting, and if you'll bear with me, I feel a need to address this ~ not only on your behalf but also for others who may be reading this.

If you've read any articles and books about grief, you already know that many authors have written about the so-called "Stages of Grief" and most of us have heard about the five stages of dying originally described by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross in her still popular book, On Death and Dying. Since that book was first published (in 1969), many people have taken her findings much too literally, expecting the dying process to occur in neatly ordered stages, one following the other. The stages of dying originally described by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross are:

1) Denial and Isolation

2) Anger

3) Depression

4) Bargaining

5) Acceptance

As groundbreaking as her work in death and dying was, Kubler-Ross's "stages" model was never meant to apply to those who are in mourning. Her studies were focused on patients who were terminally ill and dying. That is a common mistake you will find repeatedly in the literature still today. But there has been a wealth of research done since Kubler-Ross' pioneering work that focuses specifically on bereavement, loss and grief.

We now know that grief is the normal response to the death of a loved one, and it doesn't happen in neatly ordered "stages" as such.

Most of us who specialize in grief counseling prefer to think of grief as the personal experience of the loss, and mourning as a process (not a single event) that can affect us in every dimension of our lives: physical, emotional, social, spiritual and financial.

As you have learned from your own experience, everyone's grief journey is unique, and there is no specific time-frame for it. Although grief is different for each individual, finding a way through it successfully requires some knowledge and understanding of the normal grief experience and the work of mourning. That is one reason why our members find this site so helpful, because so many of the posts here are packed with useful information that comes from the hearts and minds of people who have walked this grief journey before us, learned some very valuable lessons, and are willing to share their hard-won experience with those who come after them.

I say all of this, Niamh, not to criticize in any way the support group you're attending, and I certainly don't want to discourage you from continuing to attend. I think the benefits for you will far outweigh any negatives you may encounter. Certainly you are far enough along in your own grief journey to know what makes sense to you and what does not fit, and you're strong enough to pick and choose whatever works for you while discarding the rest. I simply want to reinforce the fact that as a member of this group, you have a right to question anything that does not fit with your own experience, and your group will be better for it.

I'm attaching two articles that address in more detail this matter of stages . At some point you may want to share them with your group, if and when the timing feels right to you.

See also this article, which was posted just this morning (!) on the Seniors for Living blog: Dispelling the Myth of the "Stages" of Grief

MythOfStagesOfGrief.pdf

JAMAStagesTheoryOfGrief.022707.doc

[sunstreet]

Dear Niamh,

Good for you to feel the fear and find the courage to go. I am so proud of you too. I am happy for you that it wasn't as bad as you expected. I too don't balme you for feeling annoyed at the mention of stages...and letting go. We know that it just isn't that way. What I have come to know is that not everything written or said by a professional is going to feel right or meet my need. I kind of view it now as taking those pieces that feel right and are helpful and not try to fit in to or even accept the others. I kind of view my healing path as a movie in a sense and sometimes I have to do one scene many many times before it feels right.

Niamh, thanks for letting us know how things went for you. Thank you Marty for the resources...

A big ((((HUG)))) Niamh!

Courage and Blessings, Carol Ann

ps: I do hope and encourage you to keep going Niamh.

[BellaRosa]

Niamh, I'm so glad to hear you went to the group on your own and gave it a try. I've been contemplating going to some counseling or group therapy myself, so it's nice to hear other people's experiences.

Also, I can really relate to two things you mentioned above. The first is that you said the day of the week is lining up with the actual date for you right now. I'm dealing with that today, kind of. Today, the 17th, is 3 months since my mom passed. Today, Thursday, is the day she collapsed and went to the hospital. Wednesdays (Nov 17th was a Wednesday) and Thursdays are especially difficult for me because they will forever hold those memories, but today is proving to be even MORE trying because of the overlap. I didn't think anyone else felt that way.

The second thing is how you said that having your mom away makes you realize what things will be like one day. My dad is away on business for the next week or so (he's been gone since last Saturday) and I had a complete breakdown the night before he left realizing how alone I am. Sure, I have my husband and his family, but it's not the same as my own parents. My mom is gone forever and my dad is gone for now, and I just feel lonely and kind of abandoned. It made me realize that one day my dad will be gone forever, too, and this is what it will be like.

[niamh]

thank you Marty so much and also for sharing all this information. Yeah, I have done a lot of reading on grief which is probably why I have such a hard time when I hear about the "stages". It won't deter me, I did think that night that I could just ignore that which I don't agree with which doesn't apply to me..

I will absolutely keep it in mind about sharing this info at some point because it is important and the more people that have a better understanding the better, whether it's someone grieving or someone working and supporting those grieving.

aw thanks again Carol Ann, I thought of everyone here as I was driving in and wanting to run away from it. Yes, I agree, I think we each are the ultimate experts in our own grief and I guess it takes time to just understand what's going on when it hits us and filter out what doesn't apply to us without feeling like there is something wrong with us because something "generic" doesn't fit our situation.I will definitely keep going for now.

thanks Becka, the "best" thing about it really was just hearing and sharing the stories with each other, I guess maybe that's the main purpose of them really so I'm going to do the best I can to filter out the "noise" so to speak. Someone mentioned that hearing me talking was helping them understand another family member, hearing those words truly meant a LOT to me and I felt like it reconfirmed my decision to try it was the right one.

I'm sorry you also get the days and dates matching up Becka, I had mentioned it briefly to a friend on email but she had no clue what I was talking about ...........of course she wouldn't, 14months is not significant to anyone but me & Mom. Yep, those days will forever hold the memories for me aswell. Sending you a ((((big hug))). Sleep was pretty impossible last night. Sometimes I hate that now everything just goes on as "normal" on this day, I ask myself "how can it just be an ordinary day because it's not".

Oh hun, sorry to hear you Dad being away hits you like that aswell. I used to think like that anytime my Dad was away and I would laugh thinking how silly I was being, I guess part of me thought it would never happen and if it was going to then it would be at least 30 years away. I haven't even planned anything for the weekend, other than this evening, I don't know whether I want to get out,meet friends and try to distract myself in someway .........but no matter what, I'll still have to go home, go to bed and face the loneliness and yep that feeling of abandonment aswell. Sometimes I still want to think oh Dad's just away somewhere.

Wish you all a peaceful weekend & lots of thanks as always,

Niamh

[MartyT]

Niamh, you said, "Someone mentioned that hearing me talking was helping them understand another family member, hearing those words truly meant a LOT to me and I felt like it reconfirmed my decision to try it was the right one." I just want to emphasize that this is one of the real benefits of attending an "in person" support group, especially at this point in your grief journey: You not only obtain support for yourself, but you gain great satisfaction from being able to support others in the group (who may not be as far along as you are, or as familiar with the grief process as you've become through your own reading and experience). Good for you!

[sunstreet]

"Someone mentioned that hearing me talking was helping them understand another family member, hearing those words truly meant a LOT to me and I felt like it reconfirmed my decision to try it was the right one."

HI Niamh,

I am happy for you that this occured for you. It is always good when a decision we made that was difficult is affirmed that it was the right one. I agree with Marty. I found it helpful to actually witness that not everyone was at the same place with their healing. To see others not as far as me, then others who were further, really helped me to accept that I was healing, and that there was hope for more healing. I also found that the more I was able to voice my feelings, the more others came forward and expressed the same feelings but were to afraid to say anything. Good for you Naimh!

I am so proud of you Naimh and I feel happy that you seem more resolved to continue going. You are and will be a vital member in this group.

Blessings and Courage, Carol Ann

[2sweetgirls]

I am so proud of you, Niamh!!! This is a huge step in trying to heal - even if it's just a bit for now. I am glad you decided to go even though your mom was not attending.

I have been going to a support group for two weeks now. It is also a small room with 12 people crammed into it. That kinda made me feel a bit uncomfortable too. The first week I couldn't talk. The counselor gave us the opportunity to speak but, if you don't want to, you don't have to. The second week I was ready. I found it difficult to tell the story while looking in anyones eyes. I started to say how just utterly angry, downright furious, I am at times, looked up, and almost everyone was nodding. Instantly, I felt "better".

I think this web forum group is wonderful and I would be in a very different place with out all of you here. But going to a face to face group has made me feel a different kind of comfort . Just seeing the nodding and I don't know, the look in someones eye just adds to making me understand my grief better through others understanding and giving me affirmation that I can see.

Anyway, I'm glad you had a good experience.

2sweetgirls

[emptyinside]

"As groundbreaking as her work in death and dying was, Kubler-Ross's "stages" model was never meant to apply to those who are in mourning. Her studies were focused on patients who were terminally ill and dying. That is a common mistake you will find repeatedly in the literature still today. But there has been a wealth of research done since Kubler-Ross' pioneering work that focuses specifically on bereavement, loss and grief."

Marty, I wasn't aware of that! Everywhere I read it talks about the stages as applied to the grieving, so it feels like some kind of series I have to experience, ending in "Acceptance," and if I haven't reached these points in a timely fashion, I'm some kind of failure.

Niamh, so glad the group wasn't as bad as you dreaded. I think as with any support group you have the right to take what you want to apply and discard the rest that you feel won't be helpful. After all, you know yourself best. (((Big Hugs)))

[MartyT]

Em, I understand! If I could erase every article that continues to promote the idea of grief happening in stages, I would gladly do so! Make sure you read this article: Dispelling the Myth of the Five Stages of Grief

[niamh]

thank you all so much for the support.

aw thank you too 2sweetgirls,I'm glad you get some little comfort from your group aswell, I'm nervous again now about this week but I'll still go. Hopefully mine will be the same because I'm not sure I'm up for talking this week so it's good to know you don't have to if you don't want to.Of course that could change just hearing someone else talk but right now I just feel like there's so much going on in my head, worries about various things that I just want to ignore everything and not think of any of it for now, easier said than done really.

thanks so much Em. Hey I get it too on the acceptance when some people ask me straight out if I feel like I've accepted it yet and I wonder what exactly do they mean by that, it is definitely those of the old school of thought. I don't say yes or no but just say I'm doing my best trying to live with it.

We all know our loved one is not coming back physically to us and while yes emotionally it can still sometimes feel unreal, surreal, unbelievable on and off, we still do know it's true, none of us are actually out looking for them, we don't have search parties trying to find our parents around the world do we ?

I'm glad Marty posted that info Em on the stages .........throw them out the window hun

(((love and hugs))) to each of you,

Niamh

xx

[niamh]

So I went again last night, Mom came with me too. I really wasn't in the mood for it, didn't feel up to talking etc but it changed then being there with everyone. I think my Mom found it "helpful" too, she tends to just tell her friends now that she is ok, but last night she was able to talk more because there were several widows there. I'm so glad because I've known these last months what it means to be able to properly talk to people who are living it. I would love if my Mom made "friends" with even one person who she might meet up with after. This group is only for about 7 weeks.

The "focus" is actually on one stage every week ( ), but when it gets to talking and sharing well then really anything goes THANKFULLY.

Out of curiosity, how do your groups work for those of you attending ? My one is moderated by a couple of people, they are not professional counsellors but they have done some kind of training specifically for leading this kind of group. So we listen to some music to focus on relaxing, then they will "explain a stage" at the beginning and then people start talking. Sometimes the leaders will ask questions to initiate conversations. As I said just curious how others groups are run,

thanks as always for the support

((hugs)) all

N

[2sweetgirls]

Hello Niamh,

I'm glad the group seems to "help" a bit. I hope your mom finds a friend too. After 7 weeks, hopefully that will happen for her.

My group was a 4 week group which we all felt was too short. After 4 weeks you kind of become a small family. We all gave permission to the grief counselor to write up all our phone numbers and mail them to our homes so we can keep in touch. We all hugged at the end and were genuinely sorry it was over. This was a special group on education on the processes of grief. There are 2 ongoing groups but, I didn't go to those because the times didn't work for me. Now that this is done, my husband asked if it was helping. I do feel like it is so he is going to try to work it out so I can go to the ongoing group twice a month. The group is run by my local hospice grief counselor and a volunteer who has suffered the loss of her husband. The counselor speaks a bit but mostly she lets everyone speak - it was a chatty group. Then she will comment on what was said. The first 3 groups were run like that but, the last meeting she played music at the end and we all got up to light a candle for our loved one(s) - heartbreaker.

I think it's just easier to say "ok" when someone asks you how you are. What are we supposed to do? Cry and be miserable all the time to our friends? I feel like I'm a burden so I just say "hanging in there" when someone asks. Except for really close friends I can be "real" with them. Still, I don't want to be a downer ALL the time. As time goes on, I feel that I can hide my grief better. It's not better, I can just keep it to myself. Sad, really.

I'm glad you and your mom went last night and that you feel good about it. One moment at a time, right?

Hugs to you and your mom

2sweetgirls

[niamh]

hi 2sweetgirls,

thanks for sharing. Oh yeah 4 weeks is pretty short alright, barely gives you time to just feel comfortable or something. That sounds nice at the end though, you definitely bond in someway with others.

That sounds interesting, a group on grief process, I do hope you will be able to go.

I'm glad you you said you feel you can hide it better now, that's how I feel too and when friends will sometimes think I am much better now I do tell them yeah on the outside I am but the inside is still smashed up, how I view the world and life etc is all still the same, and when I go home, go to bed, the rawness and pain is still there & I still don't know how to live without him, I just float on doing what I have to but the spark is just missing.

I too still use phrases like hanging in there, struggling on as best I can to those that know it still exists & I guess those that I trust I can be honest with. To others I just say ok now too.

Yep one moment at a time is so so right. Wishing you a peaceful weekend hun, and ((hugs)) to you too,

Niamh

xo

[Mickz]

On 2/17/2011 at 7:07 PM, MartyT said:

Niamh, dear, I'm so pleased to learn that, even though your mother didn't accompany you, you decided to attend the support group anyway. Good for you! Again, that took great courage on your part, and I am proud of you!

 

I must say that I don't blame you for feeling annoyed at the mention of "stages" and "letting go" during the course of your meeting, and if you'll bear with me, I feel a need to address this ~ not only on your behalf but also for others who may be reading this.

 

If you've read any articles and books about grief, you already know that many authors have written about the so-called "Stages of Grief" and most of us have heard about the five stages of dying originally described by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross in her still popular book, On Death and Dying. Since that book was first published (in 1969), many people have taken her findings much too literally, expecting the dying process to occur in neatly ordered stages, one following the other. The stages of dying originally described by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross are:

 

1) Denial and Isolation

2) Anger

3) Depression

4) Bargaining

5) Acceptance

 

As groundbreaking as her work in death and dying was, Kubler-Ross's "stages" model was never meant to apply to those who are in mourning. Her studies were focused on patients who were terminally ill and dying. That is a common mistake you will find repeatedly in the literature still today. But there has been a wealth of research done since Kubler-Ross' pioneering work that focuses specifically on bereavement, loss and grief.

 

We now know that grief is the normal response to the death of a loved one, and it doesn't happen in neatly ordered "stages" as such.

 

Most of us who specialize in grief counseling prefer to think of grief as the personal experience of the loss, and mourning as a process (not a single event) that can affect us in every dimension of our lives: physical, emotional, social, spiritual and financial.

 

As you have learned from your own experience, everyone's grief journey is unique, and there is no specific time-frame for it. Although grief is different for each individual, finding a way through it successfully requires some knowledge and understanding of the normal grief experience and the work of mourning. That is one reason why our members find this site so helpful, because so many of the posts here are packed with useful information that comes from the hearts and minds of people who have walked this grief journey before us, learned some very valuable lessons, and are willing to share their hard-won experience with those who come after them.

 

I say all of this, Niamh, not to criticize in any way the support group you're attending, and I certainly don't want to discourage you from continuing to attend. I think the benefits for you will far outweigh any negatives you may encounter. Certainly you are far enough along in your own grief journey to know what makes sense to you and what does not fit, and you're strong enough to pick and choose whatever works for you while discarding the rest. I simply want to reinforce the fact that as a member of this group, you have a right to question anything that does not fit with your own experience, and your group will be better for it.

 

I'm attaching two articles that address in more detail this matter of stages . At some point you may want to share them with your group, if and when the timing feels right to you.

 

See also this article, which was posted just this morning (!) on the Seniors for Living blog: Dispelling the Myth of the "Stages" of Grief

MythOfStagesOfGrief.pdf

JAMAStagesTheoryOfGrief.022707.doc

The .PDF and .doc file is no longer accessible. Is there a new link to download? 

[MartyT]

3 minutes ago, Mickz said:

The .PDF and .doc file is no longer accessible. Is there a new link to download? 

Please see Taking A Look At The Stages of Grief, including links to Related articles listed at the base.   ❤️