Paul S

Just in case anyone tried to use the link I gave a few posts above, it's under new management and no longer does recovery. Anyone interested in their discussikon forums, however can still access them at http://www.recoverycrossroads.com.

I need to weigh in on this inasmuch as I need to start doing something about my Dad's death. fem27syd said:"Personally I don't believe your experience is a relapse as such (even though you must feel awful and scared to be feeling the same way as you did a year and a half ago), but that it is more likely a natural progression of your grief." I think that is true, or that its like a delayed reaction. I am experiencing that, albiet to a smaller degree than hopsing. I showed up on these boards because my Mom died last November. My father died in Sept 1995. I didn't grieve much at the time. About a year before he died I started drinking rather heavily to deal with my troubles, and just used his death as a further excuse to drink. (I don't drink anymore, sober over 4 years) My Dad and I didn't get along much. He was overbearing and just stern. (My perspective on him at the time. I'm becoming a lot like him, but I'm not overbearing and stern, just secure and confident in my convictions, and serious ) So my thoughts about it at the time, if I was sober probably would've been more like "Too bad the old guy's dead, it'll be hard on Mom." And then proceed on with life. Now I am seeing his death thru the lens of nearly 11 years of time. Griefwork has triggered some reflections on his death and I think I need to deal with it despite the 11 years of passage if my griefwork over my Mom is ever to be completed. I know it said in griefwork that death of one person renews old losses, and maybe this is why? My parents were married 58 years, so how could grieving over her be done without addressing Dad's death? Anyway, I've thought a lot about Dad's passing, and my relationship with him. As I said, I wasn't close to mine like hopsing and some of the other poster's were to theirs. I'd ocassionally skip sending him a birthday card or Father's Day card to show him (!). Or I'd call, he'd answer and I'd just say "Put Mom on." Our last conversation was an argument. (He was expressing disapproval over my life.) I think my 'relapse' over Dad's death, consisting of going over to the cemetary and paying some attention to his name on the granite, and not just Mom's, to talking to him there, and not just Mom. To wondering what he'd think about what's going on, to wishing he was around sometimes To missing him. And also experiencing some peculiar judgement calls in my decision-making process. In my opinion, I think that this 'relapse', or 'delayed reaction' or 'natural progression of one's grief' is just a way of getting a grip, or coming to terms with a dreadful event. Someone's died. We go thru terrible pain. We grieve. Time passes. We grieve again, as if we're wayback when the loss happened. It may be just a retracing of our steps because our subconscious needs to revisit some things back then and tidy things up? We move along a few steps forward, but need to step back a bit once in a while cuz we forgot to attend to something? And so we 'relapse' like hopsing did and KathyD very recently did? It may be just a healing. This make any sense? Paul

Hi starkiss: Losing touch with siblings is not uncommon after a parent dies. When the last parent dies, there is nothing necessarily binding the surviving siblings together. Splits or rifts invariably develop, especially if each sibling had a different relationship with the parents or was affected differently by the death. I am not on speaking terms with my sister who was the executor of my Mom's estate (Mom was the last parent to die. She left Nov 2005). Her style of grieving was markedly different from mine, plus I think that being the executor went to her head in a power trip. I bore the brunt of the abuse. (I had been living with Mom for the previous 10 years, and was her caregiver for most of that time, esp the last couple of years.) The other siblings tried to steer a narrow course between my sis and I, but this just hurt and offended me. I speak to them, when I am up to it, cuz I am trying to be forgiving (!) and they don't know any better . Don't worry too much about offending anyone. In the state of mind some of us are in, and the limitations of trying to express on a good day our feelings using the written word, sometimes a misread is unavoidable. Some of us try to take extra time and read carefully to make sure, and give the benefit of the doubt. A bereavement center that I ocassionally attend support group meetings at sometimes hands out info to the effect that on a scale of 0-100, our self-esteem is normally figured at to be in the low 80's. After a death, and during grieving, the number drops to the mid-teens. So your low self-esteem is not a surprise, it's another 'normal'. I know what you mean about how it seems as if your siblings have died. I sometimes feel that my sister has died. Perhaps I can try to incorporate that into my overall grieving. Maybe it'll lead to a reconciliation. But that'll be a long way off, anyway.

The "Communion of Saints" is what I was describing a few posts above. It is what helped me get away from the unsatisfying "They're in a better place" towards the idea of "They're in a safer place." If they're in a safer place then I feel more that way. Or as shell put it a "quiet, peaceful state".

Howzabout a part of our soul went with them, and a little bit of their soul remains within us? Basically, a connection is maintained?

Hi starkiss: It has been only a little over 8 1/2 months since my own Mom died. I know from my own experience in this that we almost always at one point or another, feel as if we are going crazy. (If you think you are, you probably aren't. Sounds trite, but usually its true ) For me, I felt as if my mind was fracturing at about the fourth month. That now seems like a lifetime ago. Recently, I have been feeling not so much as if I was going crazy, but that I was just becoming less focused or a bit disoriented. Not throughout the day, but often enough. This was after a period where I felt I had "gotten past" the bulk of the nightmare of Mom's death and was achieving a more relaxed quality or pace of life. I thought that "It was over now, probate is settled and everything is done, time to move on." But no, my ability to "stop and smell the roses" kept being interfered with by questionable decision-making processes. That is what I think was going on, a major milestone was reached and I started wigging out a bit, as you are with the 1st anniv. You are aware that it takes time, and that is good. Try and focus on that knowledge, and be aware that anniversaries can do this to us. My Mom's 1st anniv will be in early November, just before the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. Yippee, ho-ho-ho. I don't think that you can "understand everyting" just because its been a year. This is a process that slowly reveals itself to us over time, and things like dates and so forth can be arbitrary triggers of this grief. Roll with the pain as best you can and keep on posting here. It goes without saying that you are not alone in this. Paul

Sung by Kenny Chesney: "Who You'd Be Today" Sunny days seem to hurt the most. I wear the pain like a heavy coat. I feel you everywhere I go. I see your smile, I see your face, I hear you laughin' in the rain. I still can't believe you're gone. It ain't fair: you died too young, Like the story that had just begun, But death tore the pages all away. God knows how I miss you, All the hell that I've been through, Just knowin' no-one could take your place. An' sometimes I wonder, Who'd you be today? Would you see the world? Would you chase your dreams? Settle down with a family, I wonder what would you name your babies? Some days the sky's so blue, I feel like I can talk to you, An' I know it might sound crazy. It ain't fair: you died too young, Like the story that had just begun, But death tore the pages all away. God knows how I miss you, All the hell that I've been through, Just knowin' no-one could take your place. An' sometimes I wonder, Who you'd be today? Today, today, today. Today, today, today. [instrumental Break] Sunny days seem to hurt the most. I wear the pain like a heavy coat. The only thing that gives me hope, Is I know I'll see you again some day. Some day, some day, some day.

Hi kellymarie: Yes, come to think of it, I think I have become a little "slower" . However I prefer to think of it as being more "careful" and "deliberate" . Although it was only really recently that I kinda noticed this. For me, I think its a part of a maturation of the grieving process, and somewhat related to the stuff discussed in that "weeding through" topic. Not wanting to waste time on people, places and things that cause you pain or frustration, and then you "weed them out", one also may see the flip side of that, you appreciate certain things more. Not just people, but where you're at. I think the cliche is "You stop and smell the roses." You are more reserved in certain situations and you take things more easily. Got nothin' for ya on the sleeping thing, except the usual stuff about how all this hits us differently, and perhaps there are 'relapses' of sorts. My sleeping patterns after the first month or two after Mom's death I think levelled out to a regular 7-8 hours nightly. During the first 2-3months I was getting 9-11 hours. Before Mom died (last Nov) 6 hours was a good night. I do dream heavily. Congrats on beginning to recall the happy memories. I'm still working on that. Paul

Haley: I think its a learning process, unfortunately during a time of great stress and anxiety, to learn when we can turn the mask on and use good manners at work, with family and friends, and in social ocassions, and when we can take off the mask and be ourselves and let it all hang out and share how we actually feel when someone asks us "How are you?" or "Where've you been?" and so on. Some people actually care, others not so much. Each of the above have their own minefields we have to navigate through. We make our mistakes and offend people, but figure it out better as time goes on in our grieving process. You do what you gotta do. Paul

How are YOU doing? (I know you'd rather focus on your friend...) P.S. A very nice prayer.

Hi shell and LoriW: This was brought up at a grief support group I went to a few weeks ago, that we do put on a mask to protect other people from what we are going through. They may be uncomfortable in hearing about the loss of our loved ones (or impending loss of a loved one if we are in anticipatory grief, like I was for over a year before my Mom died). It may be outside their experience (so far) or just brings up their own old wounds they'd just prefer stay bandaged. In part, we also do it to protect ourselves from their "insensitive" responses. So we bury it during inappropriate situations like a family gathering where it may open up divisions, or social ocassions where people usually go to have lighthearted fun. Like LoriW said, you bring it up with the few people who'll understand. paul

At yet another timely and relevant grief support group meeting I attended last nite, a buncha people had mentioned that we grievers quite often put on a "mask" to protect others, who may not know what they're doing, inasmuch as they are uncomfortable with us in our grief. We do not wish to share what we are going thru, and therefore build a wall about us, or a mask as they said. One specific point to illustrate this is when others ask us "How are you doing (or feeling)?" And if we tell them exactly, then maybe we'll never see them again. And so we don a mask to protect them. And the point was made a few times about how it took a death of someone close to us to generate this sensitivity in ourselves, or to install a "BS detector" in our brains. Interesting meeting. I was thinking about this topic. "Oh, gosh, I wish they were here."

This is a little off-topic, but kinda related. Last nite at a grief support group I attended, the point was made towards the end by someone about all the well-intentioned things that well-meaning but clueless people say to us about our grief. The point was that WE may have said similar things wayback before our own grief experience, and its a shame that it took someone's death before we realized how hurtful or irritating such things can be. Too bad people can't be sensitive enough from the get-go when others are hurting and either say nothing at all, or say some things a little more well-considered. Just a little aside, cuz WE at some point may have been 'weeded out'. May explain why my life at times seems like a compost pile .

shell: One may never know the difference. May be a matter of perspective, combined with a knowledge of the person. Sometimes you have to give them the benefit of the doubt if you just don't know them,or what's going on inside. But like kellymarie I think, implied, if its a false front inasmuch as they're being fake, cut 'em loose. Who has time for that?

Its amazing how that passage from the Ericcson book keeps popping up for me, and helps to endorse or validate actions. I think it was one of the first texts I read wayback when (yeah, wayback, as in wayback in January. Almost a lifetime ago). Glad to see it means something to someone else. Another chapter in that book, I forget the chapter's title, also helps in 'weeding through' relatiunships. It's the one near the end, on dealing with the Evil in people. A very useful chapter to read, if in your grief you've been harmed by others. (I'm being charitable in my use of the word 'harmed'. I could have used a stronger term ) . I think an important part of this weeding process is the removal of certain parts of ourselves. Opinions, attitudes, behavior, etc. It's a neccessary consequence of 'weeding through' that ends up with our noticing things like "I've changed". You notice, in bits and pieces, what's important in yourself, and what is so shallow, or a wall (although putting up a wall may be needed from time to time. I have to learn to disern when to lower it). And what beliefs are non-negotiable. "This is what and who I am, take me or leave me." You become a little bit detached from others, or the world, beacuse of this weeding through. This makes sense? Can you tell when someone has built a wall around them to project a false front, or if they are just...detached? Detached from the world because of their own grieving process? Take care, all. Paul

Hi, HSMom, Yep, it's part of the process of grieving. Grief does have a way of re-writing your address book, (to borrow a phrase from a grieving book I read) and it may be an unintended, but common side-effect of the grieving process. I think the reasoning is that you've experienced death close-up. You are thus re-acquainted with your own mortality, and that you're not going to be here forever. Time is precious, regardless of the age you're at. All of a sudden certain people, places and things just don't seem all that important anymore and you start to 'weed out' what seems unnecesary. You are aware that the time you've got left isn't to be wasted on trifles. We all, I think, at some point in our grieving process, experience this. Good luck in your gardening. Paul

Hi babs: Don't go if you just can't bear it for now. But try to tell her in a lovingly worded letter or email how you feel, and that it is definitely NOT a personal rejection of her or of her ownership of the house. Might she be thinking that there is a resentment towards her having the house? Tell her you're grateful that the house is still in family hands, thus preserving its availability for future visits and important family gatherings,(assuming you do feel this way), and when you feel ready, then you'll visit. Hope this helps. Paul

kelly: I AVOID driving by my Mom's house, which is sorta difficult as its 1 block in from Main Street, and near an intersection, so I can still see it from a block away. I try driving down other main drags thru town but I sometimes forget as its tough to change 20+ years of driving habits. What the new owners are doing annoys me. shell: Answering yourself does not make you batty. Unless the answers make little sense?

My birthday was 2 1/2 months after Mom's death. I never cared all that much for my b-day, so on that angle it was no big deal. Still, no card, no hug, no smooch on the cheek. No cake or anything. No beaming smile while she sang "Happy Birthday". Instead I found out be reading the classifieds that her house (my home) was up for sale. I dealt with it be making darn sure that I went to a face-to-face grief counseling session that had been already scheduled. I went to her gravesite and talked to her. Shubom: I think you're idea for your birthday is a fantastic one. The anxiety is natural, it'll go away. Its your 30th, and your Mom's not there and you're taking over from what she used to do. Just focus on planning, get help if needed and I wish I could come.

Hi babs, I think you're right. If I recall from an earlier post, you said that June 28th would mark the 4th month since the death. It was around the 4th month since my Mom's death that I felt like I was losing it. I felt that my mind as breaking apart and I was just going nuts. I ranted and raved to no one in a Church, (I was alone, well, except for God, of course). Eventually I got help thru here and learned to just let the emotions out. I was worrying too much about things, especially whether or not I will ever get over the loss, and it was driving me berserk. I was also distracted by having to do a lot of other things that prevented me from focusing on grief, like looking for work and moving. Although by the 4th month that was largely over, I think I just had been innattentive. I do think what you're feeling is normal, or common. I'm a praying person, and will pray for you. Take care, Paul

I'm not really trying to be funny here, but it'll sound that way: I find that I'm talking to myself a lot since Mom died. Most of the time I do check to see if anyone is around, but since I live and work alone (temporarily in a Church -working, that is) witnesses are rarely the problem. If I'm in the car, people just think I'm singing. Emoting helps to keep things from being bottled up. And I nominate shell to be the Official Grief Healing Dot Com's Greeter and Hugger! MartyT: is the job open?

Hi all: As they say in 12-Step Recovery programs (one of which I am a member of): "You have to be selfish before you can be selfless". This means that becoming selfless (another way of saying "unselfish") is a process. Griefwork assists in that process. You do have to take care of your own needs, and haley, concerning what you're going thru that means you have to figure out your relationship with your family (may be too early as the rubble is still bouncing) and how to incorporate your Mom's death into your life. After all this happens, then you are ready to "let go". How long this takes is up to you. There isn't any timetable. If you rush it because someone who doesn't know any better says "you should be over it by now", then you may have overlooked something to deal with. Taking too long is wrong, but as long as you can point to progress, you're OK. There are zillions of postings on this board about progress and how to figure out if you're stuck. And remember what shell said in the previous post: "Haley, You are still in the early stages, and as Paul pointed out he couldn't have thought this way a few months ago. So give yourself time. It might not be possible to think about this right now. Hugs, Shell" Amen!! Take your time, and work it through. Let your emotions tell you where you need to go. This isn't something that we can think through, at least not too much. We think it through too much, and our intellect is fighting our emotions. We won't get far. This is an emotional issue. As long as you're reaching out to people who can identify with what you're going through, they can help keep you on track and balanced. Then, after a fashion, you'll be able to think about your Mom as being in a safer place, and you'll be happy that she's there. I know that seems hard to understand right now (OH, BOY, DO I KNOW!!), but eventually, you'll see it.

It may be just a sign of how far one has come along in all this griefwork. Not to toot my own horn but the idea of not wanting my loved ones to be back here would have been unthinkable just a few months ago. As shell said, its an act of love. And love is supposed to be unselfish.

Hi haley, Oh, yes, I know all about Shell. She's helped me out a lot, too. She's an angel. My Mom died last November, and although I don't have her ashes (she was buried, not cremated) I do have a piece of her. Some time after her death I was rummaging about in a corner of the vanity and discovered a hair curler of hers. It still had some strands of her hair on it. It made all the difference for a while. I sealed it in a plastic ziplock baggie and stuck it in an old coffee mug she used every morning. Although I don't talk to it or look at it daily, there are times when I pass by it, I pause, and take it out of the mug. There is a calming presence, as if she's still around. Just having it has helped me get thru tough times. Otherwise, I visit the cemetary quite a bit. They're both there, Mom and Dad. That last thing you said, about how your day is shot totally if you don't stop and talk to her, I understand, too. I have to spend part of my morning in prayer, or else the day is kaput. Take care (or Hugs, as shell would say) Paul

Hello Nona, I am truly sorry for your loss. As a recovered alcoholic, I understand the "addiction is a disease" concept. It doesn't take away the pain all that much, but maybe it is a road to an understanding. People do talk about what took their loved ones away from them, as it's relevant to why people are here. Since this place is a board to discuss grieving and bereavement and how to cope with a loved ones's death, you may not get specific answers about addiction here. But you will get lots of help in dealing with your son's death. I am sure that there are others here who can identify with what you are going through and can offer helpful advice. You may want to try http://www.recoverytimes.com. There are discussion forums there under the "Crossroads" link, where families of alcoholics and addicts can post their stories. Although your son is gone, there are lots of kind and understanding people who will gladly talk about drug addiction in any way that you want and can help you with that, if you feel you need to. Take care. Paul